If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Rate Thread | Display Modes |
#46
|
|||
|
|||
Google keeps a log of all digital receipts emailed to your GMailaccount.
On 19/05/2019 02.42, John Doe wrote:
If there were nothing unusual about the practice of reading customers' emails, other email providers would do it. But they don't. Microsoft doesn't. There are some ads in Hotmail, or you can pay for the service. It's a SHOCKING practice. Government is not even allowed to read our emails, without a court order. At least here in the United States, no one is allowed to monitor customer communications without a court order. Not the mail service and not the telephone service. It should be no different for email. Sooner or later Google will get in trouble for abusing it. A Google fanboy from Spain... LOL -- Cheers, Carlos. |
Ads |
#47
|
|||
|
|||
Google keeps a log of all digital receipts emailed to your GMailaccount.
On 19/05/2019 04.43, nospam wrote:
In article , John Doe wrote: It's a SHOCKING practice. Government is not even allowed to read our emails, without a court order. At least here in the United States, no one is allowed to monitor customer communications without a court order. Not the mail service and not the telephone service. It should be no different for email. Sooner or later Google will get in trouble for abusing it. false. law enforcement generally can't without a warrant, but others can, which is partly how spam filtering works. The difference is that it is machines who read the mails, not persons, thus it is legal. Machines do not need a court order, even less when the user signed an agreement that clearly said the mail would be scanned. You are right, any antispam system reads the email. Now, when some google developers read email (possibly to develop the programming that will do the "reading"), that's suspicious. -- Cheers, Carlos. |
#48
|
|||
|
|||
Google keeps a log of all digital receipts emailed to your GMailaccount.
On 19/05/2019 02.44, John Doe wrote:
No, Google did not "tell it from day one". In fact, they had to add language in 2014 to avoid lawsuits. Microsoft does not read their customers emails. Problem is, this poster comes from a country that isn't used to freedom we have here in the United States... LOL -- Cheers, Carlos. |
#49
|
|||
|
|||
Google keeps a log of all digital receipts emailed to your GMailaccount.
On 19/05/2019 02.56, John Doe wrote:
That the poster can find citations about the unethical practice is not surprising. My question was about the user agreement. Whether the poster knew about the unethical practice, only the Shadow knows. And it still did not provide a Google "announcement" of the practice. The fact Google had to add language to its user agreement in 2014 is telling. It was under pressure from lawsuits against the unethical practice of reading its customers' emails. This post is from a Spanish Google fanboy (perhaps an employee of Google)... LOL. -- Cheers, Carlos. |
#50
|
|||
|
|||
Google keeps a log of all digital receipts emailed to your GMail account.
On Sun, 19 May 2019 00:56:36 -0000 (UTC), John Doe
wrote: That the poster can find citations about the unethical practice is not surprising. My question was about the user agreement. Whether the poster knew about the unethical practice, only the Shadow knows. And it still did not provide a Google "announcement" of the practice. "It" did. See my sig. //11.1 You retain copyright and any other rights you already hold in Content which you submit, post or display on or through, the Services. By submitting, posting or displaying the content you give Google a perpetual, irrevocable, worldwide, royalty-free, and non-exclusive license to reproduce, adapt, modify, translate, publish, publicly perform, publicly display and distribute any Content which you submit, post or display on or through, the Services. This license is for the sole purpose of enabling Google ...... // .... to sell your data to any interested parties (including oppressive governments) at the highest bidder. At least they're honest about it. []'s -- Don't be evil - Google 2004 We have a new policy - Google 2012 |
#51
|
|||
|
|||
Google keeps a log of all digital receipts emailed to your GMail account.
"mechanic" wrote
| I blame Ray Tomlinson who invented email back in the '70s; in those | days there was this quaint notion that users were generally honest | citizens. This the email protocols were light on security and | privacy. The general idea that early developers were collegiate in | their approach and this lead to clever efficient solutions to | problems overlooks issues that no-one thought important in those | days. Thus in the 21st C. we find it difficult to row back on early | design mistakes, and blame the likes of Zuckerberg for the failings | of earlier designers. | I'm not so sure people were thinking much of anything. Scientists had managed to communicate globally, among themselves, for free. It was a breakthrough. No one had got to the point of preparing for security issues or corporate hijacking of the Internet. Just as the Wright brothers weren't thinking about whether airlines should charge for peanuts. I blame all the lazy people who use corporate webmail. Especially gmail. Google is gradually becoming synonymous with email. Someone with a business was just telling me yesterday that she uses gmail for her business. Instead of it's . I asked why, noting that a gmail account for business looks tacky and ignorant. She said it's because acme.com will get blocked by spam filters but gmail won't! So when you see on the side of a van, the plumber is probably a tech hayseed who doesn't realize he could get his own domain.... But he might be a tech sophisticate on the cutting edge, entirely accepting of the idea that Google owns his communication, and happy to pay fees or watch ads in exchange for using the Internet service he's already paid for! |
#52
|
|||
|
|||
Google keeps a log of all digital receipts emailed to your GMailaccount.
On 19/05/2019 15.58, Mayayana wrote:
"mechanic" wrote | I blame Ray Tomlinson who invented email back in the '70s; in those | days there was this quaint notion that users were generally honest | citizens. This the email protocols were light on security and | privacy. The general idea that early developers were collegiate in | their approach and this lead to clever efficient solutions to | problems overlooks issues that no-one thought important in those | days. Thus in the 21st C. we find it difficult to row back on early | design mistakes, and blame the likes of Zuckerberg for the failings | of earlier designers. | I'm not so sure people were thinking much of anything. Scientists had managed to communicate globally, among themselves, for free. It was a breakthrough. No one had got to the point of preparing for security issues or corporate hijacking of the Internet. Just as the Wright brothers weren't thinking about whether airlines should charge for peanuts. Yep. I blame all the lazy people who use corporate webmail. Especially gmail. Google is gradually becoming synonymous with email. Someone with a business was just telling me yesterday that she uses gmail for her business. Instead of it's . I see those, yes. I asked why, noting that a gmail account for business looks tacky and ignorant. She said it's because acme.com will get blocked by spam filters but gmail won't! Ah! But you can hire gmail to handle your own domain email, I believe. Those gmail say they don't inspect, they have different conditions. -- Cheers, Carlos. |
#54
|
|||
|
|||
Google keeps a log of all digital receipts emailed to your GMail account.
In article , Mayayana
wrote: I blame all the lazy people who use corporate webmail. Especially gmail. Google is gradually becoming synonymous with email. Someone with a business was just telling me yesterday that she uses gmail for her business. Instead of it's . I asked why, noting that a gmail account for business looks tacky and ignorant. She said it's because acme.com will get blocked by spam filters but gmail won't! So when you see on the side of a van, the plumber is probably a tech hayseed who doesn't realize he could get his own domain.... But he might be a tech sophisticate on the cutting edge, entirely accepting of the idea that Google owns his communication, and happy to pay fees or watch ads in exchange for using the Internet service he's already paid for! *much* better to hire a plumber who knows how to fix plumbing issues than a plumber who is tech savvy and knows how to set up an email server but not so good at plumbing. |
#55
|
|||
|
|||
Google keeps a log of all digital receipts emailed to your GMail account.
In article , Carlos E.R.
wrote: It's a SHOCKING practice. Government is not even allowed to read our emails, without a court order. At least here in the United States, no one is allowed to monitor customer communications without a court order. Not the mail service and not the telephone service. It should be no different for email. Sooner or later Google will get in trouble for abusing it. false. law enforcement generally can't without a warrant, but others can, which is partly how spam filtering works. The difference is that it is machines who read the mails, not persons, thus it is legal. Machines do not need a court order, even less when the user signed an agreement that clearly said the mail would be scanned. correct. You are right, any antispam system reads the email. Now, when some google developers read email (possibly to develop the programming that will do the "reading"), that's suspicious. they do not need access to user content to develop machine learning algorithms. |
#56
|
|||
|
|||
Google keeps a log of all digital receipts emailed to your GMailaccount.
On 19/05/2019 17.18, Mayayana wrote:
"Carlos E.R." wrote | But you can hire gmail to handle your own domain email, I believe. Those | gmail say they don't inspect, they have different conditions. | Isn't that the worst of both worlds? You're taking the word of a sleazy, known liar and getting no benefit. I don't think gmail has lied to me so far. If your email is coming from there's still the risk of getting blocked. It doesn't matter who the smtp server is. In other words, the point of using gmail is specifically that email from gmail.com tends to be trusted. Yes, there is that. but it can also come from , and if you pay google to handle it, then it will also work. Hint: do a "host" search on ieee.org. I actually ran into something like this several years ago. My ladyfriend was volunteering with Harvard University and her email from both our IP and from my own domain, into Harvard, were being blocked. It took awhile to figure it out. Turned out the the man in charge of the system didn't understand it. They had subbed it out to another company, which was blocking all non-whitelisted domains. This was Harvard and the IT people didn't even know how to manage their email! Nor did the man in charge know how to change the settings. Nor did they really care. And as long as the subcontractor didn't hear the complaints, it was easiest for them to just block unfamiliar domains. It's very ironic that crap like gmail or hotmail or yahoo would be trusted, yet ISP email is not. But maybe that makes some sense. Google probably pays more attention now to gmail security than ISPs do. My own mail server sometimes blocks Comcast, simply because Comcast has a lot of customers with computers or email accounts taken over by bots, and Comcast can't be bothered to deal with the problem because it's not their primary business. My ISP has stopped giving email addresses. They tell people to use gmail instead. -- Cheers, Carlos. |
#57
|
|||
|
|||
Google keeps a log of all digital receipts emailed to your GMail account.
Do others get completely different results when using these methods?
1. WEB BASED SEARCH QUERY label:^smartlabel_receipt 2. https://myaccount.google.com/purchases |
#58
|
|||
|
|||
Google keeps a log of all digital receipts emailed to your GMail account.
On Sun, 19 May 2019 02:40:46 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
Just modified. It was there since ever. On Sat, 18 May 2019 22:31:16 -0400, Clare Snyder wrote: OK - I did NOT know about this SPECIFIC cache - Hi Clare, THANK YOU for being honest. o To your credit, you can see both sides of the coin. Very few people on Usenet would admit what you did o Nor would they _dig deeper_ for facts - as you did. That you did both those things, is a testament to two things o Your inteligence o Your credibility You are like me - where you _care_ about your credibility. I simply _knew_ you didn't know about this specific cache. o Only because _nobody_ knew about this specific cache. That's why it's making the news. The "problem" is that the facts don't fit the narrative. o Google "says" this is to "help you keep track" of your receipts But... o Google never _told_ you about this specific cache. That is a fact which seems to be true - right? o So the fact does NOT fit the narrative. That always bugs me (sort of like how the Gulf of Tonkin incident facts didn't fit the narrative). but I DID know they cache and harvest VIRTUALLY EVERTHING they think they might make a pedo on - and they DO NOT publicize it - and they DO NOT make it easy - if it is possible at all - to prevent theirclandistine data collection. Clare, EVERYONE knows that Google tracks almost everything you do in Gmail. o https://policies.google.com/privacy That's NOT what this thread is about o That wouldn't be "news" for example. After doing a bit of research (you DO know what that is, right??) Clare, I respect you for your knowledge, and even more that you admitted you didn't know about this URL, which, while it's patently obvious that NOBODY knew, you, at least, had the courage to admit that you didn't know it (even though I _knew_ you didn't know it 'cuz I'm a logical rational person). NOTE: Since Usenet is a casual medium, when I say "NOBODY", it's patently accepted that this means "Almost Nobody", as people at Google certainly knew. However ... if you knew what my PhD is in, and from what school, and then if you knew how many papers I've written, you wouldn't make that silly childish taunt that I don't know what "research" is. I'm not going to point out my papers, nor send you a copy of my degrees, but rest assured I know how to do research in the formal sense. So please don't play that game with me Clare, as there's likely almost nobody on this ng who has more education than I do (plenty will have as much, but very few will have more) so let's not go there again please. For example, I already reported on the following, which dilutes my narrative mind you, but like any scientist or engineer, I am beholden to the truth and not to any particular interpretation of that truth. Google _did_ mention, way back in 2013, that you could put this search term in your Gmail search box, which is kind of sort of similar to the new secret URL that we found out from the recent news reports:: label:^smartlabel_receipt It's not the same thing, of course, but it's a step in that direction: https://www.itworld.com/article/2711018/find-all-your-receipts-in-gmail-automatically.html This move started in 2013 - and it was partly a move by Google to make it difficult for anyone else to "harvest" the information - if they want the information they have to buy it from Google. Clare - that's a rational reasonable point, which I don't disagree with. o Facts are easy for people who are rational to agree with. There is information about it on hubspot (Originally published Dec 13, 2013 10:07:00 AM, updated July 28 2017) at https://blog.hubspot.com/marketing/g...l-marketers-nj Thanks for that link, Clare, where, as you know, I read every reference that people post in helpful responses to queries. o How Google's Change to Gmail Images Affects Email Marketers https://blog.hubspot.com/marketing/google-gmail-images-email-marketers-nj "When recipients choose to load an image, they share a lot of information about themselves, including their location and the kind of device they're using. Marketers also learn, of course, that someone has opened their email." Notice that the images now come from Google instead of the sender: "But now, Google is going to cache all these images itself. So when a recipient loads an image, it will come from Google, not from the marketer." Notice that Google actually _changes_ the email content: "when a Gmail recipient opens an email, Google will have re-written the email content to source any images from them. " They explain it as a way to display images inline in their webmail app. more info at https://litmus.com/blog/gmail-adds-i...u-need-to-know. and https://litmus.com/blog/gmail-adds-i...u-need-to-know Both those URLs were the same: From your prior article reference, we can summarize as "old" and "new" styles of image processing: (NOTE: I could be wrong but this is my take on the old/new process.) OLD: o Marketeer mails you the email containing a _unique_ image link o You ignore that email & marketeer knows the link wasn't clicked o Marketeer doesn't know if you opened the email though If you _click_ on the image link, the Marketeer learns mo o Marketeer knows you clicked on the image link o But also - Marketeer gets information about your software NEW: o Marketeer mails you the email containing a _unique_ image link o You ignore that email & marketeer knows you ignored that email! o If you open the email, marketeer also knows you opened it. WHY: o Google re-wrote the email to link to a Google server instead o The Google server asks for the unique link from the marketeer o So the marketeer _only_ knows that you opened the email Notice your URL below says this only works for WEB access to Gmail, so we can presume that, oh, say, Thunderbird, might work differently. o DECEMBER 9, 2013 What You Need To Know About Image Caching In Gmail https://litmus.com/blog/gmail-adds-image-caching-what-you-need-to-know There is also some question in my mind as to how "unique" the image link is crafted, where, for example, these could all point, in the end, to the same image, even as the link is unique to each person: o http://domain.com/linktoperson1/image.jpg o http://domain.com/linktoperson2/image.jpg And o http://domain.com/images/image1.jpg o http://domain.com/images/image2.jpg Where the web software effectively uses an automated symbolic-link (in effect) where both image1.jpg and image2.jpg are actually "image.jpg". If my assessment above is wrong, someone smarter will let me know. It appears from this information that using something like MICROSOFT OFFICE OUTLOOK as your mail client MAY solve the problem, as it APPEARS the caching is done by the browser app (webmail). Thanks for that information that each MUA may handle the image links differently that Google re-writes, where your latter article inferred the same thing by saying: "Gmail has started caching images for users accessing Gmail via the webmail interface: images are viewed only once on the original server while successive views will originate from the cached image on Google¢s proxy servers." What's interesting about that comment is that the re-writing of your email apparently occurs "on the fly" as you download the email from the IMAP server to your device - which is the ONLY time that Google "can" know that you're using a web-based interface. Presumably, if you use, oh, say Outlook or Thunderbird as your MUA, then the re-writing of the image link doesn't happen. ??? In summary Clare, I APPRECIATE your honesty, which bolsters your credibility, since you, like me, speak facts and you look up those facts. For my part, I _read_ your links, and summarized them, again, because I care about my credibility so if I'm wrong, someone smarter than I am will certainly let me know. Still, I must point out that this image caching sub thread is interesting, but I don't see it related to the fact that Google is secretly (apparently) creating a web page of your free stuff, registration, and paid stuff (at least), which Google _says_ is for you to use - but which is located at a secret place that Google never told anyone about (as far as anyone yet can tell). That's why it's news. The solution is what we're after here, which, may be: o Switch to Proton Mail (or equivalent), or, o Delete your receipts, or, o Convert your receipts into non-scannable emails. Any other viable solutions that intelligent people can propose? |
#59
|
|||
|
|||
Google keeps a log of all digital receipts emailed to your GMail account.
On Sat, 18 May 2019 19:15:55 -0600, rbowman wrote:
https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/17/1...email-receipts https://policies.google.com/privacy?hl=en The second link is from January 22, 2019. You can click on 'Archived Versions' that go back to 9 June 1999. You can usually find a link to the privacy policy by rooting around in your account information. Do they provide a handy link on the front page? Hell no. Does Aunt Mary religiously read TechCrunch, BetaNews, TheRegister, TheHackerNews, and other sites that report on doings in the IT world? Hell no. Does she know Zuckerberg looks at her as a cash cow? Hell no. Hi rbowman, Facts first; only then can rational logic ensue. THANK YOU for this useful information! o You are adding value to the potluck picnic to share with everyone. I will read your cites, as my main point is twofold in this thread: 1. Initially: Inform users of this tool & find ways to ameliorate it 2. Currently: Agree with or Correct those who feel Google told us all along The one thing about me is that all I care about are the actual facts. o I will _modify_ my belief system (if necessary) based on the facts. I'm allergic to bull**** from people who say they knew about this all along o And yet, they almost certainly did not (yet they bull**** us anyway) It's why I don't have an imaginary belief system. o Hence I _appreciate_ the facts you brought up. Hence I read your facts with hopeful scientific ardor. o Specifically _what_ and _when_ Google "told us" about this. Here's The Verge article you referenced: o May 17, 2019: Google has been tracking nearly everything you buy online ¡X see for yourself with this tool https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/17/18629789/google-purchase-history-gmail-email-receipts "Google has been quietly keeping track of nearly every single online purchase you¡¦ve ever made, thanks to purchase receipts sent to your personal Gmail account, according to a new report today from CNBC. Even stranger: this information is made available to you via a private web tool that¡¦s been active for an indeterminate amount of time." "Google did not say how long this tool has been active. " "this tool, and the technology to collect and present the data it provides, has existed quietly without a majority of Gmail users aware" "google claims this difficult to find, hard to delete itemization of my entire purchasing history is to "help me keep track of all my shopping habits in one place, total BS. it's to help google keep track of all my shopping habits in one place." Bear in mind that, while the article mentioned this site tracks receipts, even Apple receipts, it did not mention the fact that it tracked my "free" stuff, such as a free electronic device shipped to me from my carrier, and detailed mandatory government registration information for some things. I'm too old to run this test to register for the draft, but if there are any 18 year old born male people on this newsgroup, it would be interesting to know if they also archived your mandatory selective service registration receipt. And anyone who points to the Google privacy policy is missing the point since I'm not asking whether Google tracks us (they do); and I'm not asking whether Google "said" they'd track us any way they could (they do)... Facts first; then rational logic can ensue. The twitter post in the The Verge article summed up the honest issue well: a. If Google really wanted us to use this to "keep track" of our receipts b. Why isn't this special web page listed _anywhere_ that anyone can find? The logic doesn't fit the facts. (not yet anyway) |
#60
|
|||
|
|||
Google keeps a log of all digital receipts emailed to your GMail account.
"Carlos E.R." wrote
| Isn't that the worst of both worlds? You're taking | the word of a sleazy, known liar and getting no benefit. | | I don't think gmail has lied to me so far. | Good luck with that. The whole presentation is a lie, inasmuch as there's no real agreement or awareness about the extent of spying. Google, of course, would claim it's in their terms, but that's nonsense. And no TOS can rightly claim the right to rifle through your personal effects, much less analyze the data and sell it on. Just this week there was news that Google knows shopping history due to purchase receipts being sent to gmail. https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/17/goog...delete-it.html On the one hand, gmailers shouldn't be surprised. It'sGoogle's mission to spy on everything they possibly canand exploit it in any way possible. On the other hand,most people just never even imagine that suchsleaze or such technical capabilities might exist. In terms of baldfaced lying, one example that comesto mind was when they were caught slurping any possibledata they could get from unprotected wifi with their streetviewcars. They flat-out denied it -- until it was discovered thata Google engineer had specifically written the software usedto do exactly that. Eric Schmidt had proposed to the Hillary campaign thathe could help her:http://www.itwire.com/government-tec...n-in-2014.html The sheer arrogance, immorality, and disregard for workers,voters, and pretty much everyone esle is stunning. Of course these examples could go on. But the generaltrend is that a bunch of geeks came up with a very goodproduct, then got big heads and got carried way with greed,eventually imagining themselves to be helping the worldwhile they steal everything they can get their hands onand believe their sheer genius is both proof of their goodintentions and justification for their megalomania. |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | Rate This Thread |
|
|