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#16
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Do people of reasonable technical ability store their privatedata on the Internet (if so, for what gain?)
On 06/05/2019 09:11 PM, 123456789 wrote:
pjp wrote: I do not trust someone else to properly handle my data, just look at all the various problems companies have with their cloud infrastructure. Do you have a credit card? Do you go to the doctor? Do you pay taxes? Does your car have license plates? On and on and on. Unless you live in a cave your life is already in the cloud. I also do not like that they can or even must (if legally asked) examine my info. True for all of the above. I also don't like that they can retain a copy for as long as they like. True for all of the above. I deleted my Facebook account about 4 years ago Bet it's still there. When I delete mail in Hotmail any bet it's still on some backup they keep? Yup. So since you're already hanging out in the cloud (big time) why is so terrible to also keep your backups there? No choice about the above, but I damn well won't give the *******s anything I don't have to. -- Cheers, Bev What if there were no hypothetical questions? |
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#17
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Do people of reasonable technical ability store their privatedata on the Internet (if so, for what gain?)
The Real Bev wrote:
On 123456789 wrote: Do you have a credit card? Do you go to the doctor? Do you pay taxes? Does your car have license plates? On and on and on. Unless you live in a cave your life is already in the cloud. So since you're already hanging out in the cloud (big time) why is so terrible to also keep your backups there? No choice about the above, Sure you have a choice. You don't have to have a credit card. But life is so much more convenient using one. but I damn well won't give the *******s anything I don't have to. You don't have to have a phone but you give your phone company your personal information because having a phone is so convenient. I don't have to have online storage but I like having access to my information on most any device at virtually any location because it's so convenient. And from what I see in the 'latest company to get hacked' TV news every night it's probably much safer... |
#18
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Do people of reasonable technical ability store their private data on the Internet (if so, for what gain?)
On Thu, 6 Jun 2019 14:03:30 -0000 (UTC), Joe Beanfish wrote:
Do people of reasonable technical ability store their private data on the Internet (if so, for what gain over non-Internet methods?) Yes, with private data encrypted. I got tired of not being able to access things I needed when out and about and my home internet or server was down. Sometimes the "cloud" is a server I control, other times it's a service such as dropbox. Hi Joe Beanfish, Thank you for that suggestion that the cloud is certainly accessible wherever you are (as long as you have Internet access), which is clearly a big bonus to storing data on the cloud. Somehow, the technically astute of us have to _protect_ that cloud storage, whether from prying eyes such as we've seen happen at Google, or from hackers, as we've seen occur at Apple. The tradeoff we need to technically solve is that between o Access anytime anywhere, versus o Protection from hackers. The technical question to solve is _that_ question, I believe. I suspect the simplest _potential_ solution, is to back up to the cloud _only_ that which is doubly encrypted, such as with platform compatible Truecrypt containers (which all five common consumer operating systems can read and write). Having said that, I certainly realize that even 'double' encryption can be broken, although, I suspect, you'd need a determined focused hacker to want to try if everyone did this (which is where safety in numbers helps). Besides double encryption, what _else_ would you recommend as a technical solution? Another technical solution is to hang your storage off your router, and access that storage from the Intgernet - where - unfortunately - that takes a technical ability that I don't profess to have - since security is wholly up to you in that situation. Do you think that hanging an encrypted file container on your router _can_ secure enough to 'compete' with the convenience of cloud storage? |
#19
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Do people of reasonable technical ability store their private data on the Internet (if so, for what gain?)
On Thu, 6 Jun 2019 10:41:35 +0200, Piet wrote:
And where do you store them? Theft-safe and fireproof? Hi Piet, This is a GOOD POINT, where we each bring value to the Usenet potluck with our divergent ideas... Given that people repeatedly claim that the cloud storage is safe from catastrophic home fires, IMHO, this "theft safe & fireproof" concept is one that is worth looking at from a _statistical_ standpoint, don't you think? o What's the chance of someone STEALING your data DVDs? o What's the chance of your house burning down? versus o What's the chance of your data being hacked off the cloud? I suspect that the statistics are HUGELY variant o Where it could be close to 100% that cloud data will be stolen o And close to 0% that your DVDs will be stolen by a thief While _both_ can happen, we have to be realistic in determining your threat level, don't we? For example, we can store our DVDs or flash drives in a safe deposit box rather easily, can't we? Or, we can bury them in a box under a tree in the back yard, if we're concerned about instant access, can't we? We can put them in a fire-resistant safe, if we're really worried. o But, once we put it on the cloud - we _lose_ all that, don't we? |
#20
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Do people of reasonable technical ability store their private data on the Internet (if so, for what gain?)
On Wed, 5 Jun 2019 16:59:20 -0700, Alan Baker wrote:
iTunes is going away. The ability to backup one's portable devices which is currently found in iTunes is not. Hi Alan Baker, Thanks for that clarification that, while the iTunes abomination is apparently soon to be deprecated by Apple, (some?,most?,all?) its functionality will be provided to the hapless customer in some fashion. Where, as you may be aware, as is very often the case, I was the first to report this iTunes deprecation news to the iOS newsgroups earlier this week, where my information was, of necessity, preliminary at that early reporting time (as was the battery fiasco, which I was also first to report, as were many other issues - even the iPhone X preliminary data you countered in the past with later data)... o Apple Plans End of iTunes https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/IV9KUqo7JXE Subsequent to my first reporting of this news, others also reported it: o iTunes at long last dead ... https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/Sjb1gqN-kH4 o Apple is killing off iTunes, reports say https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/kM_U7C7vdG8 Since I'm always all about functional solutions, I also opened this thread: o What functionality does iTunes do for you that you'll need to replicate without iTunes? https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/v2jT-sWIKR0 Since I personally ditched the iTunes abomination years ago, I only skimmed the results of that pertinent iTunes-replacement functionality thread, where, my take on that quick look is that it's not yet clear whether (some?, most?, all?) the functionality of the iTunes abomination will be replicated for the hapless consumer. Given that Usenet is a public potluck where we each strive to bring value to the table, it would be great if you can add your technical value to that thread, so that the iTunes users have suitable replacements in hand. Personally, I think that a good backup strategy should exist for all consumers of all five of the common consumer platforms... o Linux o Windows o Mac o Android o iOS Of which I own four of those five myself and which I strive to treat as similarly as possible in terms of cross platform functionality. |
#21
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Do people of reasonable technical ability store their private data on the Internet (if so, for what gain?)
On Thu, 6 Jun 2019 05:18:06 +0200 (GMT+02:00), Libor Striz wrote:
Technically, stored communication = storage. Once there, it does not matter much if still there. Hi Poutnik, I'm not sure from your response whether you understood that _legally_, in the USA, there _is_ a difference between communication & storage. Whether _you_ feel that this legal distinction has merit is one thing, but what's important to note for people communicating with USA companies and storing those communications on USA companies' servers is that the US government apparently makes a _huge_ distinction. It wasn't clear, from your response, whether you comprehended _that_ distinction, as it seems to be that you may be arguing that this legal distinction does not exist - which - if it doesn't exist - then I would welcome your cites showing that to be the case. If photos or documents are in mailbox or in dedicated cloud storage does matter much, it is just technology difference. Poutnik - It doesn't seem that you comprehended yet the _legal_ distinction. Rather than me explain the legal distinction again, can you simply clarify whether you _understand_ that there _is_ a legal distinction (AFAIK)? Thanks. If content is abused, it does not matter much how it was protected by law. Again, nothing you say is of any use if you don't explain whether you comprehend that there _is_ a legal distinction between email communications on Google servers and those same email communications left on the Google servers for more than 30 days. Flash sticks are typical example of problematic long term storage due time deterioration of NAND flash memory cells. Plus there must be evaluated combination of technology lifetime and technology availability. I'm unaware that the USB sticks would have a short lifetime compared to other methods of personal local storage. The whole point of Usenet is to share value, where if you have a cite which shows that NAND flash memory on USB sticks has a short lifetime, NOW is the time to provide that scientifically derived data.... Do you have valid test results for how long USB sticks survive in normal household conditions? Many of us use these USB sticks - so any information you can share that is scientifically valid would add value to the conversation. |
#22
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Do people of reasonable technical ability store their privatedata on the Internet (if so, for what gain?)
Arlen G. Holder wrote:
What's the chance of your data being hacked off the cloud? Good point. My cloud storage provider has more than one billion active accounts. What are the chances... close to 0% that your DVDs will be stolen by a thief In the old days people often lost their whole video DVD collections to home burglaries. It was a big expensive loss then. Now with streaming available does anyone actually watch DVDs anymore? Course you meant data DVDs but the same applies. They also can be lost in fires, hurricanes, and burglaries. |
#23
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Do people of reasonable technical ability store their private data on the Internet (if so, for what gain?)
On Wed, 5 Jun 2019 20:12:08 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
wrote: On 05/06/2019 18.19, Arlen G. Holder wrote: Do people of reasonable technical ability store their private data on the Internet (if so, for what gain over non-Internet methods?) Why would I answer? If you don't like my answer you will say I'm a retard or something disgusting. Dude, what's to stop him from doing so anyway? You might just as well answer... "sticks and stones" |
#24
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Do people of reasonable technical ability store their private data on the Internet (if so, for what gain?)
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#25
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Do people of reasonable technical ability store their private data on the Internet (if so, for what gain?)
On Thu, 6 Jun 2019 09:08:25 -0700, 123456789 wrote:
They also can be lost in fires, hurricanes, and burglaries. Thanks for confirming that your major reasons for putting your private data on the cloud completely in someone else's hands is that you're worried that you, yourself, can't protect that data. It's becoming very clear that the less technically competent people seem to be, the _more_ they argue that they inherently natively naturally innately gravitate to well-marketed cloud-storage solutions provided to them by the major players in this business (e.g., Apple & Google, among others). What takes intelligence & effort is not so much that you argue that innately, your brain gravitates to commercial cloud-storage solutions, but for you to discuss how to protect your data when you do put all your data in the hands of someone else. Just as it took intelligence & effort to come up with a calendar & password mechanism that didn't involve putting all my data on the cloud, it will take a lot more than just complaining to solve the technical issues inherent in protecting your own data without compromising the convenience that the cloud offers to the less technical astute hoi polloi. Assume we old'ish technocrats of Usenet are more technically astute than your average 10 year old kid, I believe _we_ should be able to come up with a solution that rivals the cloud in convenience, but which doesn't require us to put our private data completely in the hands of the cloud providers's marketing gimmicks. In short, our added value isn't in complaining about the same old things that everyone who uses the cloud for convenience complains about - but our added value is in coming up with astutely derived technical solutions. Like that cross-platform automatic encrypted backup mechanism for one, which is a veritable jewel of useful technical tools for such things. |
#26
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Do people of reasonable technical ability store their private data on the Internet (if so, for what gain?)
On Thu, 6 Jun 2019 17:11:51 +0200 (GMT+02:00), Libor Striz wrote:
I have intentionally avoided the legal aspect, as it does not apply to me. Hi Poutnik, I am not a lawyer, but I suspect the legal aspects are immense, in that they likely apply to _all_ communications stored on Google servers for the less/more than 30 days, including communications that come from OUTSIDE the Google servers. If zero of your communications are stored on servers that the US considers under their jurisdiction, then, of course, the legal aspect very likely doesn't apply to you, I agree. But that would mean that you _never_ communicate with people with Gmail or Apple email addresses, right? Do you really _never_ communicate with people who own email addresses of companies based in the USA? (Is that even feasible?) |
#27
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Do people of reasonable technical ability store their privatedata on the Internet (if so, for what gain?)
On 06/06/2019 08:05 AM, Arlen G. Holder wrote:
On Thu, 6 Jun 2019 10:41:35 +0200, Piet wrote: And where do you store them? Theft-safe and fireproof? Hi Piet, This is a GOOD POINT, where we each bring value to the Usenet potluck with our divergent ideas... Given that people repeatedly claim that the cloud storage is safe from catastrophic home fires, IMHO, this "theft safe & fireproof" concept is one Fireproof. Friends went through one of the big California fires a while back. Their entire house was flattened except for the perhaps 4-feet-high "fireproof" safe. Made an impressive picture standing there amidst the ash. The papers inside were ash, the gold jewelry was melted into the ash and other bits of stuff, and the Rolex was...interesting. How many hours of fire can your fireproof safe tolerate? That one was rated for one hour. that is worth looking at from a _statistical_ standpoint, don't you think? o What's the chance of someone STEALING your data DVDs? o What's the chance of your house burning down? versus o What's the chance of your data being hacked off the cloud? I suspect that the statistics are HUGELY variant o Where it could be close to 100% that cloud data will be stolen o And close to 0% that your DVDs will be stolen by a thief While _both_ can happen, we have to be realistic in determining your threat level, don't we? I try to back up my entire 353GB partition at least once a week to either another partition on my computer or a USB drive within easy reach if I have to flee a fire. Someone is home almost all of the time, so unless a home invader decides to make off with my HEAVY full-tower computer and a number of USB drives I feel pretty safe. How long would it take to copy my partition to the cloud at ~6Mbps? This is a rhetorical question... For example, we can store our DVDs or flash drives in a safe deposit box rather easily, can't we? Or, we can bury them in a box under a tree in the back yard, if we're concerned about instant access, can't we? We can put them in a fire-resistant safe, if we're really worried. o But, once we put it on the cloud - we _lose_ all that, don't we? If we both have to leave home for an extended period (maybe once a decade) we put recent backups in a box and take them to a friend's house. -- Cheers, Bev Nobody needs to speak on behalf of idiots, they manage to speak entirely too much for themselves already. |
#28
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Do people of reasonable technical ability store their private data on the Internet (if so, for what gain?)
In article , The Real Bev
wrote: I try to back up my entire 353GB partition at least once a week to either another partition on my computer or a USB drive within easy reach if I have to flee a fire. Someone is home almost all of the time, so unless a home invader decides to make off with my HEAVY full-tower computer and a number of USB drives I feel pretty safe. backing up one partition to another partition on the same drive or even another drive in the same computer is not a backup. it's also a manual operation which is often neglected. 'at least once a week' means you are likely to lose a week's worth of work. How long would it take to copy my partition to the cloud at ~6Mbps? This is a rhetorical question... many cloud services accept seed drives. in the event of disaster, they can also send you a drive with your data rather than download everything. |
#29
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Do people of reasonable technical ability store their privatedata on the Internet (if so, for what gain?)
Arlen G. Holder wrote:
123456789 wrote: They [DVDs] also can be lost in fires, hurricanes, and burglaries. Thanks for confirming that your major reasons for putting your private data on the cloud completely in someone else's hands is that you're worried that you, yourself, can't protect that data. I encrypt the sensitive data before storing it on the cloud. |
#30
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Do people of reasonable technical ability store their privatedata on the Internet (if so, for what gain?)
pjp wrote:
12345@12345 says... They [DVDs] can be lost in fires, hurricanes, and burglaries. True but if your house burns down and takes DVD's with them at my age I'm worrying about house and not old data backups. My backups include copies of legal papers, licenses, irreplaceable photos, etc. Two bucks a month is good fire insurance IMO. YMMV. |
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