4TB external HD

On 26/06/2018 23:25, Paul wrote:
Brian Gregory wrote:
On 26/06/2018 03:20, Paul wrote:
Brian Gregory wrote:
On 25/06/2018 23:44, Paul wrote:
Brian Gregory wrote:
On 25/06/2018 22:01, Ed Cryer wrote:
Ed Cryer wrote:
Paul wrote:
Stephen Wolstenholme wrote:
On Mon, 25 Jun 2018 12:53:03 +0100, Ed Cryer

wrote:

I have a Seagate 4TB external HD, powered, like this;
https://goo.gl/q1z7RC

It works fine with Win7. No sign of trouble.
But when I plug it into Win10 the system dies. Strangely,
when I boot with it plugged in, everything goes fine.

There's nothing relative in the Windows Log, other than info
that the system didn't shut down properly before the reboot.

Has anybody seen this? Or, any hunches as to what's causing it?

Ed

I had a similar problem with a Verbatim drive. It was fixed by
a new
driver that was applied by an automatic update. I assume
Seagate have
some driver fixes.
Steve


It should be using a regular USB Mass Storage driver.

The drive is 3.5" and has an external 12V @ 1.5A adapter.
The question would be, where does the +5V come from.

A lot of drive enclosures, convert some of the 12V to 5V to
run the logic board on the hard drive. So rather than the
wall adapter having four wires like a Molex, only +12V comes
from the adapter, and the +5V is produced on site.

(Wall +12V ------------ Adapter ---- +12V ------ Hard drive motor
Â* Wart) GND ------------ BoardÂ*Â* ---- GNDÂ* ------
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* ---- GNDÂ* ------
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* ---- +5VÂ* ------ Hard drive
logic board
(not all pins shown)
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* +5VSB ------------ USB toÂ*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* TX+ ------ Hard drive
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* D+Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* SATAÂ*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* TX- ------ data
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* D-Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* ConverterÂ*Â*Â* RX+ ------ connector
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* GND ------------- ChipÂ*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* RX- ------ 7 pin (3 GND)

The USB cable by comparison, has a source of +5VSB at
up to 900mA on USB3. If the ATX power supply doesn't
have sufficient +5VSB rating, and you actually
overload +5VSB, it can cause the motherboard to shut
off. Instead of doing a restart, it would appear to
spontaneously shut off.

Maybe they made it like this, but... unlikely.

Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* +12V ------------ Adapter ---- +12V ------ Hard drive motor
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* GND ------------ BoardÂ*Â* ---- GNDÂ* ------
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* ---- GNDÂ* ------
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* +-------------- +5VÂ* ------ Hard drive
logic board
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* |
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* +5VSB ---------+-- USBÂ*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* TX+ ------ Hard drive
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* D+Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* SATAÂ*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* TX- ------ data
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* D-Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* ConverterÂ*Â* RX+ ------ connector
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* GND ------------- ChipÂ*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* RX- ------ 7 pin (3 GND)


But even though that looks bad, it's not possible to
tell from the outside, exactly how the external storage
box was designed.

If it was a driver issue, you'd expect to see some
error info in the Reliability Monitor related to the
driver.

The drive might not be spinning when it is plugged
in during a session, but spinup current comes from
the 12V 1.5A adapter, rather than the USB bus cable.
The USB bus cable should only power the adapter
board inside the enclosure. Or in a more exotic
design, the bus power could also be used to run
the hard drive logic board.

For a driver issue, you'd expect to see a BSOD on the
screen for a short time. If you disabled automatic
restart, then the BSOD would stay on the screen longer.
If it really is a power issue (crushing of +5VSB) then
changing the automatic restart setting would not change
the symptoms.

If the computer shuts off and doesn't restart, that
sounds more like a +5VSB issue.

And while placing a USB3 powered hub between the
computer box and the external drive would sound
like fun, those aren't always designed properly
either. Sometimes there are undesired interactions
between the downstream +5V on the powered hub,
versus the +5VSB on the host side of the hub box
(the "backfeed" problem).

If an iPad was being charged off the PC, at the
same time the HDD enclosure had the USB data
cable plugged in, that would represent a pretty
heavy load on +5VSB (several amps).

Â*Â*Â* Paul

Hi Paul.

I've just tried it on another Win10 box and it works perfectly
there.
I took it back to the faulting box, booted with it in,
uninstalled it, rebooted ...... problem still there.

I've not had any other USB problem with the box. I've plugged in
other HDs, memory sticks, external bluray writer. All fine.

Ed


The main difference that leaps out at me is that the 4TB drive
has a power adaptor; none of the other devices do.

Ed


My theory:
The power supply on the drive is cheap Chinese rubbish and has no
earthing and measurable mains voltage leakage and the PC shuts
down when a small spark jumps from the USB cable to the PC as you
insert the USB connector.

If the drive's power supply is earthed through to it's output then
maybe the PC isn't earthed or an earth loops is causing current
flow that crashes the PC.


I would be alarmed if I saw sparks fly between the PC USB
connector and a powered USB 3.5" drive.

The ground shell touches first, and we'd be talking about
a spark-into-ground event, with the possibility of
crosstalk between the shield and internal conductors
to upset other electronics. This tends to be worse on
*front* panel connectors. Due to the front connectors
never being earthed properly (typically set in plastic,
and only the shield on the cable provides ground). The
back connectors have obvious physical paths to chassis,
and a slightly lesser chance of induced upset.

The wall adapter has 230V on one side. The HiPot test
is supposed to verify 1100V withstanding for some
period of seconds. But the sticker or proof of test
might not be visible from the outside. ATX supplies
sometimes have a visual indication on them that
they've been HiPot tested. It's best to apply the
test after final assembly, as if anyone makes a dopey
mistake, the test might catch it.

The transformer(s) themselves could be HiPot tested,
and that's probably done on the transformer manufacturing
line. But that's not likely to be the last test.
You want a final test, to verify no creepage & clearance
problems, or solder splashes where they don't belong.
Visual inspection (even robotic) isn't enough for
safety purposes. If someone files a law suit
against you, you can show the HiPot stamp on the
unit, show the court your test station for the
procedure and so on. For whatever that's worth.

If you do see a spark, well, stop using it :-)
If the design is intended to float, it should
not throw sparks. And there's no reason for
that test case to violate the HiPot max.
If you raised the PC chassis thousands of volts
above the rest of the house, yes, you'll see
a spark on the resulting multiple HiPot failures.

Â*Â*Â* Paul

I said small spark.

I've seen this happen on an HP printer. A Deskjet 720 if I remember
correctly. Luckily I could leave it connect all the time so it
wouldn't crash the PC.

I still don't see you properly describing exactly what happens, a
crash or a power off or what.


If you short +5VSB to ground, you get a power off.

Never heard of crowbar protection?

I have.

I designed it into a power supply at home, at
the age of 18.

I don't think that's what you mean though.

You probably want OCP (Over Current Protection), which
can be implemented thermally (regulator overheats at
a certain current flow level and removes output).

There is also foldback current protection, where
the device reduces current flow, protecting both
the load and the supply.

There is also "put-put" mode, which early PCs
used, leading to more successful boots, even
if a PC "wasn't feeling well". That mode is suited
to the older computers running 30-35W loads or
so for the processor.

There are several approaches to overload.

*******

Crowbar is for OVP. OverVoltage Protection.
What it seeks to do, is clamp the output to
zero volts, causing the OCP to cut in.

Crowbar was intended for cases where the failure
modes of the power supply, made it really easy
for the supply to be in a permanent "high voltage
output" state. For example, a series pass linear
which is jammed in an "ON" state, would leave the
DC output permanently too high. In some cases,
a supply with a fast-blow fuse located elsewhere
in the circuit, application of the crowbar would
blow the fuse.

Modern SMPS attempt to remove switching drive
from the primary side, on a fault. So there's no
need to crowbar them. As soon as the switching
action stops on the primary (even if one transistor
is permanently jammed on), it takes alternation
to pass an AC signal through the isolation
transformer to the secondary.

DC to DC converters (like the secondary power
board in 80+ supplies), have different fault
modes than the main 12V section, and may require
a different approach. (They could be buck regulators
for example, as they don't need isolation as a feature.)
While some of the chips used may remove primary drive
to the buck transistor (causing MOSFET to go to OFF state),
that's not sufficient to handle all fault scenarios.

It would be an unusual design today that uses
a crowbar. There are plenty of options in modern
supplies. For example, if the secondary board
in an 80+ fails, you can kill the switching
action on the primary side of the main transformer,
or you can disable the PFC front end (the part
that power-factor-corrects the AC load caused
by the ATX supply). The advantage of killing
the switching action, is protection is closer
to instantaneous. Killing at the PFC requires
16mS to a second or so before the output stops.

Â*Â* Paul

So YES a pulse getting on a power rail can cause a power supply to cut out.

--

Brian Gregory (in England).

Brian Gregory wrote:
On 27/06/2018 14:05, Ed Cryer wrote:
Paul wrote:
Ed Cryer wrote:
Paul wrote:
Ed Cryer wrote:


Out of curiosity I tried the drive on my Win10 tablet. No problem,
just as with my Win7 and other Win10. I also closed the curtains
before plugging the drive in, and no sign of a spark.

All that went so well that I felt heartened to try again ... and
same problem. I also scrutinised the System Log and there are only
two errors flagged; one for untidy shutdown, one for untidy boot.
There are the usual many info entries but it seems pointless to
plough through those.

BTW, the system just hangs. Screen freeze, no mouse, no keyboard;
no response to CTRL/alt/delete, nor Esc, nor Windows key.

Ed

Well, that's not what we've been discussing.

I thought the system rebooted on its own.

Instead, you're reporting a freezing problem, where *you*
hit the power button or reset it, to bring it back.

The next time the problem happens:

1) Before executing the test case, use Command Prompt and
Â*Â*Â* record the IP address of the box.

Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* ipconfig

2) Run the test case. The screen is frozen.

3) Try actuating the Shift Lock key on the keyboard.
Â*Â*Â* If the keyboard LED follows the Shift state, that
Â*Â*Â* means the system is alive.

Â*Â*Â* If the computer has a PS/2 port, you can shut down
Â*Â*Â* completely and fit a PS/2 keyboard and use the PS/2
Â*Â*Â* keyboard for the Shift Key test. This is in case the
Â*Â*Â* USB subsystem is cooked at the time of the freeze.
Â*Â*Â* PS/2 is *very* reliable :-) PS/2 is less needed for
Â*Â*Â* the mouse, but we do need a working keyboard.

4) From a second computer,

Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* ping IP_address_from_step_1

Â*Â*Â* and see if the computer responds.

If the Shift key works, you can try Control-Alt-Delete
and see if you can get to Task Manager. Chances are,
you can't, if the Desktop Environment is frozen.

While it's possible to debug a computer using Visual
Studio and an RS232 port, I've never tried it and
can't say how well it works.

Your system is frozen, but not all freezes are the
"fatal" kind. Some are freezes of the DE (file explorer)
only, and the kernel is still running. Some of the
tests above may prove the kernel still works.

I don't know why the desktop would freeze.

The video card, as far as I know, the setup is
equipped with a watchdog timer, and VPU recover
has been a feature for some number of years.
That's probably not it. The video is probably
still running. If the video reset itself, there'd
be an Event Viewer entry.

If the computer responds to a ping, you could
also try remoting (RDP) into the computer and running
the screen from a second computer. Plug in the
poison USB disk, then, using your (still-running)
remote screen, debug what's railed with
Process Explorer (Run As Administrator) and
see if you can see something amiss (railed,
SVCHOST using cycles, look for the Threads tab
and see some procedure names).

Â*Â*Â* Paul

Thanks for staying with it, Paul. I do appreciate your help and advice.
I've given up on the thing. It's going in the bin. I can't feel safe
with a problem like that looming in the background. I'll probably
buy a Seagate portable 4TB to replace it.

Ed


You have the option of removing the hard drive
from the enclosure, and putting it on a SATA
port inside a desktop. Then use if for something.
Most of the value of the thing is the hard drive,
the enclosure less so.

The back of my PC has two USB3 ports, and if I
experienced trouble with one of them, I'd move
the plug to the other and repeat. The ENUM section
of the BIOS, keeps information on a per-port basis.
If the root of the problem was information stored
in the registry, it might not freeze.

As an example of another test case, you could
install a fresh 17134.1 OS on the PC in question,
then plug in the drive and see if it freezes. That
test is to see if it's something specific to the
installation (i.e. not a combo OS + hardware issue
causing it). The same drivers should load, the
same freeze appear, if it's a driver issue.

In any case, I wouldn't bin it. Erase the drive
and give it to someone, if the product bothers you.

I'd just repack the drive in another enclosure, in
my computer room. You can see I like this stuff :-)

https://s22.postimg.cc/btz0qtj01/enclosure_Type_B.gif

I removed that adapter from the enclosure, for better
air cooling of the materials.

Â*Â*Â* Paul

The replacement is ordered and I'll pick it up tomorrow. 4TB portable
Seagate.
I have better things to do than play around with faulting drives. It
came from Maplins just before they went into liquidation a few months
ago.
The small amount of data on it seems ok. When I've copied that (oh,
and by the way, run the new one through Seatools for Windows), away
goes the old one.
I think a drill twice right through it should render it bin-dumpable.

Ed

But everything points to the computer being faulty or oversensitive to
pulse interference fed in to it's ports.


I can see your reasoning. But pause, and consider this.
It happens with no other device. And I've plugged all I've got into that
same USB3 slot; a bluray writer, a portable DVD-player, five portable
2TB & 1TB HDs, an SSD in a caddy. All perfect, no sign of trouble.

I'm not going to live with the constant nag that at any moment that HD's
disruptive behaviour might suddenly deteriorate and cause who knows what
mayhem.

Ed

Brian Gregory wrote:
On 26/06/2018 23:12, Brian Gregory wrote:
On 26/06/2018 14:10, Ed Cryer wrote:
BTW, the system just hangs. Screen freeze, no mouse, no keyboard; no
response to CTRL/alt/delete, nor Esc, nor Windows key.

Good grief.

Wish you'd thought to say that at the beginning.

Do you have a multimeter or anything you could measure mains leakage
with?


HELLO Ed are you there????


No, no. I was out in the record-breaking sun we've currently got here.
I don't have a multimeter. Give me a lesson in how to use one if you want.

Ed

Brian Gregory wrote:


So YES a pulse getting on a power rail can cause a power supply to cut out.

ATX supplied are not push-pull.

The output works in the push direction.
Feedback works to change the amount of
energy pushed towards the output, to stay
within the 5% cross-load tolerance. On older
designs, the potential on each output is set by
turns ratio. Cross-loading (where one output is
loaded more than the others), results in the
other outputs being slightly higher, if one
rail is loaded preferentially.

Here's a traditional ATX supply. This lacks "realism"
in the sense that this one has no protection features
as such. We can't really do any sort of OVP/OCP analysis
with this model. However, we can consider the properties
of what's present on it.

http://www.pavouk.org/hw/en_atxps.html

12V has 1000uF output capacitance
5V has 1000uF output capacitance
3.3V has 4700uF output capacitance

To "bump" the supply into OVP territory, requires
charging those capacitors until they hit the OVP
point. On a 5V rail, perhaps this is 7V or so
(i.e. the old limit for TTL logic).

The basic feedback loop seeks to counter the
behavior. The switching action is reduced in
response to one rail going higher than nominal.

If the rail voltage continued to rise (after
the feedback system has responded as it normally
does), an OVP circuit in a modern design, would
cut in. And in modern designs, there's no crowbar,
as all the supply can do is disable Q1/Q2
switching action.

Now the question becomes, the bus voltage on the
USB cable is 5V. Even if there was "backfeed",
charging a 5V rail to 5V does nothing.

If a potential "hot enough" to run up the 5V
rail appears on the cable, it would blow up
the adapter board inside the external drive
housing, and the drive would never work again.

*******

On a modern PC, the USB bus is powered via +5VSB.
In the example schematic above, the +5VSB is
derived from a "second supply". But the behavior
has to do with the motherboard design, and not
the supply itself.

If you short +5VSB to ground, it removes +5VSB
from the supervisor circuit on the motherboard
itself, and the motherboard internal state
is no longer capable of keeping the motherboard ON.
The PS_ON# signal is no longer asserted by the
motherboard open collector driver, and
that tells the ATX supply to switch off.

That means, if there is already a moderate load
on +5VSB (2A to 3A rating on modern supplies),
and then you plug in a USB device, there can
be "sag" (voltage drop) during the transient.
And that could be enough to cause the motherboard
to stop asking for power, switching off the
computer instantly. Intel has a famous app
note on the topic, explaining to motherboard
designers to place a 100uF cap near the 5V feeding
the USB port. The USB appliance itself, has a spec
limit on the size of its capacitor (10uF?), and
then the ratio between the two, prevents the inrush
spikes from being significant. However, that doesn't
change the overall DC limit on the supply. If
you have too much load on +5VSB and are riding
on the edge, anything could happen.

In the schematic, +5VSB has 47uF for stability.
The motherboard has multiple 100uF (one per USB
stack), so there can be another 500uF or so
of motherboard filtering. A modern design
could be quite different (they use switchers
now, not a linear as in the example). If the
+5VSB is a switcher, the output capacitance
will be larger than the 47uF used on that linear
design.

*******

Summary:

1) An "event" on +5VSB used to power the USB bus,
can switch the system off via PS_ON# no longer
being asserted.

2) Backfeed into the ATX supply, needs a pretty
significant power source. And one that's well
out of spec (fault in peripheral power design).
A typical OVP situation for an ATX arises when
a +12V wires shorts to a +5V wire, lifting
the +5V output, due to a cabling flaw in the PC.

3) Transients introduced, need to charge up a 1000uF
cap. A fast transient is as likely to punch a hole
in the dielectric, as actually charge it. For ESD
events, the outer shield of the USB is ground,
the PC chassis and connector shell are ground,
and a transient can couple by crosstalk into
other conductors. Finding a direct path
for discharge, is going to be a bit more difficult.

I've been scuffing around the computer room here
for a long time, without a power-off event or
loss of hardware due to ESD. But I do know from
HBM testing at work, that it's certainly possible
to tip over just about any piece of electronics.
The conditions here, I don't see the 50kV events
I've been able to generate in other locations
(deliberate attempts to charge a human to a high
enough voltage, they can only "take" the discharge
on a knuckle).

Since the OP now claims to have a freezing problem,
versus an actual automatic restart, this isn't
the root cause in any case.

Paul

On Wed, 27 Jun 2018 21:56:01 +0100, Ed Cryer
wrote:

Brian Gregory wrote:

I think a drill twice right through it should render it bin-dumpable.

Ed

But everything points to the computer being faulty or oversensitive to
pulse interference fed in to it's ports.


I can see your reasoning. But pause, and consider this.
It happens with no other device. And I've plugged all I've got into that
same USB3 slot; a bluray writer, a portable DVD-player, five portable
2TB & 1TB HDs, an SSD in a caddy. All perfect, no sign of trouble.

I'm not going to live with the constant nag that at any moment that HD's
disruptive behaviour might suddenly deteriorate and cause who knows what
mayhem.

99.99% certainty the drive itself is fine. Multiple people have pointed
that out, and you've already proven it yourself. You could put it in
another external case and be on your way. However, you're determined to
bin it, so there isn't much anyone can do now.

I don't like it when folks toss good stuff into the bin, but you aren't
the first and you won't be the last.

On 6/27/2018 2:03 PM, Ed Cryer wrote:

I was out in the record-breaking sun we've currently got here.

My outside thermometer is currently (3:30 PM) reading 111F.
And that's not even near a record. Feel any better?

sgeoujdhdfortughjk wrote:
On 6/27/2018 2:03 PM, Ed Cryer wrote:

I was out in the record-breaking sun we've currently got here.

My outside thermometer is currently (3:30 PM) reading 111F.
And that's not even near a record. Feel any better?

He lives in a climate where normally air conditioning
is not required. That means the level of suffering
will be quite different than you.

People living in areas where nominal summer temperature
excursions are large, are likely to have redundant
air conditioners, so if one air conditioner goes out,
the family lives in half the house via the services
of the second air conditioner. Which suggests
a zoned approach, separate air handlers or something.
But that's what you do when the external temperature
is always uncomfortable in summer. In such an area,
the AC is likely to always be running in your car
or truck.

Paul

On 6/27/2018 4:11 PM, Paul wrote:
sgeoujdhdfortughjk wrote:
On 6/27/2018 2:03 PM, Ed Cryer wrote:

I was out in the record-breaking sun we've currently got here.

My outside thermometer is currently (3:30 PM) reading 111F. And
that's not even near a record. Feel any better?

He lives in a climate where normally air conditioning is not
required. That means the level of suffering will be quite different
than you.

Depends on the humidity. I've felt hotter at 85F in high humidity than
110F+ at low humidity. We call it a dry heat. Our sweat drys...

People living in areas where nominal summer temperature excursions
are large, are likely to have redundant air conditioners

Not in my desert metropolis. Most houses here have single AC units. And
in the old days we had single swamp coolers.

the AC is likely to always be running in your car or truck.

I grew up here before cars had AC. Wonder how I survived... 8-O

On Tue, 26 Jun 2018 18:25:40 -0400, Paul
wrote:

Crowbar is for OVP. OverVoltage Protection.
What it seeks to do, is clamp the output to
zero volts, causing the OCP to cut in.

Crowbar was intended for cases where the failure
modes of the power supply, made it really easy
for the supply to be in a permanent "high voltage
output" state. For example, a series pass linear
which is jammed in an "ON" state, would leave the
DC output permanently too high. In some cases,
a supply with a fast-blow fuse located elsewhere
in the circuit, application of the crowbar would
blow the fuse.

I had a Data General minicomputer which had a
built in UPS. The 5 volt supply was 135 amps and
the backup battery was 8 Gates cells regulated to
5 volts through 14 power transistors in parallel.
The OVP consisted of a large SCR and a 200 amp
HRC fuse.

Paul

"Ed Cryer" wrote in message
news
Ed Cryer wrote:

Thanks for staying with it, Paul. I do appreciate your help and advice.
I've given up on the thing. It's going in the bin. I can't feel safe with
a problem like that looming in the background. I'll probably buy a Seagate
portable 4TB to replace it.


I presume you are joking but if not please let me buy it off you.
I don't have a need for it other than to see if I get the same problem but
more to stop it going to waste.

--
Regards
wasbit

wasbit wrote:
"Ed Cryer" wrote in message
news
Ed Cryer wrote:

Thanks for staying with it, Paul. I do appreciate your help and advice.
I've given up on the thing. It's going in the bin. I can't feel safe
with a problem like that looming in the background. I'll probably buy
a Seagate portable 4TB to replace it.


I presume you are joking but if not please let me buy it off you.
I don't have a need for it other than to see if I get the same problem
but more to stop it going to waste.


Come and pick it up for free.

Ed

Ed Cryer wrote:
wasbit wrote:
"Ed Cryer" wrote in message
news
Ed Cryer wrote:

Thanks for staying with it, Paul. I do appreciate your help and advice.
I've given up on the thing. It's going in the bin. I can't feel safe
with a problem like that looming in the background. I'll probably buy
a Seagate portable 4TB to replace it.


I presume you are joking but if not please let me buy it off you.
I don't have a need for it other than to see if I get the same problem
but more to stop it going to waste.


Come and pick it up for free.

Ed


On second thoughts, tell me how to produce the same freeze with some
other device in that USB slot, and if it indeed does that then I'll
reconsider.

Ed

In article , Ed Cryer
wrote:


Thanks for staying with it, Paul. I do appreciate your help and advice.
I've given up on the thing. It's going in the bin. I can't feel safe
with a problem like that looming in the background. I'll probably buy
a Seagate portable 4TB to replace it.


I presume you are joking but if not please let me buy it off you.
I don't have a need for it other than to see if I get the same problem
but more to stop it going to waste.


Come and pick it up for free.

where?

nospam wrote:
In article , Ed Cryer
wrote:


Thanks for staying with it, Paul. I do appreciate your help and advice.
I've given up on the thing. It's going in the bin. I can't feel safe
with a problem like that looming in the background. I'll probably buy
a Seagate portable 4TB to replace it.


I presume you are joking but if not please let me buy it off you.
I don't have a need for it other than to see if I get the same problem
but more to stop it going to waste.


Come and pick it up for free.

where?


Tell me where you are, and I'll tell you how far away I am.

Ed

Ed Cryer wrote:
I have a Seagate 4TB external HD, powered, like this;
https://goo.gl/q1z7RC

It works fine with Win7. No sign of trouble.
But when I plug it into Win10 the system dies. Strangely, when I boot
with it plugged in, everything goes fine.

There's nothing relative in the Windows Log, other than info that the
system didn't shut down properly before the reboot.

Has anybody seen this? Or, any hunches as to what's causing it?

Ed

Curiouser still.

I got my new HD, copied the files from the old one to it, and the old
one is now surplus to requirements.
But, something I was thinking about made me give it one last go; this
time in a rear USB socket. And it worked; so I then tried it in a USB2
back socket, and it worked there too. It had failed in all four front
ones. There are about ten around the back.
Does this square with anybody's theory?

Well now, I'm hooked too. I have to go further. I won't bin it yet, but
I also can't look at it just yet; not for some time.
I don't want to let down those of you who've given it time.
So then, I give my word. I'll be back on it later this summer, or maybe
if the weather turns, England get knocked out of the World Cup, or Andy
Murray out of Wimbledon.

Ed