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#76
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Reason *TO* pick on Windows 10
On 3/10/19 7:17 AM, Mayayana wrote:
Now you say the only reason WINE is still half-assed after 20+ years is because of politics. I don't believe that. I tried to work with the WINE people. They were completely unwilling to cooperate with Windows developers and come up with an API or tools we could use to target Linux. They said they wanted to support my software but all they really wanted was Windows bug reporters to give their interns some practice. And they couldn't be bothered with docs. The WINE people could have started a Windows API and docs 20 years ago, so that Windows programmers could design for WINE. Then gobs of Windows software could have been running beautifully under WINE years ago. And we could test/fix our own bugs. But they refuse to take such a sensible approach. Instead they want to be like teenage hackers, finding hacks to make Windows software work, one function at a time. Not politics. Economics. Code Weavers makes their living off of consulting services. They don't give anything away for free. My experience with them is very negative. You find a bug, even in their documentation (I found some really bad ones in their installation instructions), they start name calling and on and on and so forth. Wine Staging is finally fixing things. If you like way Windows does things, stick with Windows. The P is PC stands for Personal. |
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#77
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Reason *TO* pick on Windows 10
On 3/10/19 1:10 PM, Mike wrote:
you can fly before your buy. That'sÂ*aÂ*myth. If you install from the Live USB's installer, you get the same exact thing as was on the Live stick. Everything that worked with the stick will work installed. There is only one exception I have come across. RHEL does not work natively with C236 chipsets, but will work with the Live USB because it is SLOWER and the problem is a timing issue. And RHEL won't fix unless you pay them to. |
#78
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Reason *TO* pick on Windows 10
On 3/10/19 11:50 AM, Andr-o-Mat wrote:
Disagreed. KDE is generally butt ugly. Butt Ugly is a good description. It works though. I don't care for it myself, but I do love some of the apps written for it: K3B (ha disk check after write), Krusade (ugly as all hell but extremely useful), KLpgp, KPatience (must paly card!). |
#79
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Reason *TO* pick on Windows 10
On 3/10/19 1:10 PM, Mike wrote:
ExperimentÂ*two: GiveÂ*twoÂ*peopleÂ*computersÂ*newÂ*inÂ*theÂ*boxÂ*a ndÂ*internetÂ*connections. LockÂ*'emÂ*inÂ*separateÂ*rooms. TellÂ*'emÂ*toÂ*writeÂ*aÂ*shortÂ*memo,Â*attachÂ*aÂ* pictureÂ*andÂ*emailÂ*itÂ*toÂ*you andÂ*you'llÂ*comeÂ*openÂ*theÂ*door. TellÂ*personÂ*twoÂ*thatÂ*heÂ*willÂ*haveÂ*toÂ*useÂ* linuxÂ*toÂ*doÂ*it. LeaveÂ*andÂ*waitÂ*forÂ*theÂ*emails.Â*Â*Don'tÂ*forg etÂ*toÂ*notifyÂ*next ofÂ*kinÂ*andÂ*callÂ*hazmatÂ*forÂ*theÂ*secondÂ*guy. I get paid all the time to set up Windows computers for customers so they can use them. Without me they are completely lost. So lets redo your test with a good consultant setting up the computers for them: Install system-config-printer, Firefox, Libreoffice, Thunderbird, Brave on both computers first with desktop icon. Then repeat the test. Tell them to set up their eMail in Thunderbird, write a letter, set up a printer, look something up on Google. Hmmm. Linux is 40% faster, so Linux would win. |
#80
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Reason *TO* pick on Windows 10
On 3/10/19 1:10 PM, Mike wrote:
Yep.Â*Â*YouÂ*mustÂ*beÂ*rememberingÂ*yearsÂ*agoÂ*wh enÂ*their GUI'sÂ*wereÂ*nasty.Â*Â*LinuxÂ*isÂ*faster,Â*farÂ*mo reÂ*stable, technologically superior, I forgot the virus problem in Windows. TechnicalÂ*superiorityÂ*isÂ*overrated. Ha. Linux hardly ever blue screens, freeze, goes to s*** after running for 3 days. Linux has file system journalling that actually works and will mask off bad memory for those that are too cheap to run ECC memory. Ever look at the statistics of Samba versus Windows file servers? Samba is twice a fast and can handle four times as many users. I recover corrupted files from Windows running NTFS all the time with NTFS-3G. Not to be too blunt, but technically speaking, Windows is s***. This is what happens when the marketing department runs a company. Fortunately, there are was to cope with Windows if you are stuck having to run it for lack of Linux apps |
#81
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Reason *TO* pick on Windows 10
On 3/10/19 4:59 AM, Big Al wrote:
On 3/10/19 1:24 AM, T wrote: GoÂ*getÂ*yourselfÂ*someÂ*LiveÂ*USB'sÂ*ofÂ*KDE,Â*gn ome,Â*Xfce,Â*MateÂ*and youÂ*willÂ*seeÂ*whatÂ*IÂ*mean.Â*Â*BeautifulÂ*deskt ops. And Cinnamon. https://spins.fedoraproject.org/ https://spins.fedoraproject.org/en/cinnamon/ I am downloading its spin as I write this. Thank you! |
#82
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Reason *TO* pick on Windows 10
T wrote:
On 3/10/19 1:10 PM, Mike wrote: you can fly before your buy. That's a myth. If you install from the Live USB's installer, you get the same exact thing as was on the Live stick. Everything that worked with the stick will work installed. There is only one exception I have come across. RHEL does not work natively with C236 chipsets, but will work with the Live USB because it is SLOWER and the problem is a timing issue. And RHEL won't fix unless you pay them to. Well, that's not true. It's true if the Live USB has a persistent store loaded somewhere on the system, to store state information between sessions. It's not true, if you're just using a DVD with "distro X" on it. A DVD by itself, doesn't have a persistent store on it. Anything which involves DKMS, is going to require a reboot (to pick up the modified kernel), and in the process, the state information is lost. This means you can't install the NVidia graphics driver in Linux, unless you have a persistent store. Similarly, you can't install VirtualBox or VMWare Player, as both of those sport materials which are installed via DKMS. For some value of "trivial evaluation", sure, you can see what "ls" does, what "mv" does, run the calculator maybe. But the fullest extent of possibilities, is going to need a persistent store. And when you install the OS, that's the "ultimate persistent store". Paul |
#83
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Reason *TO* pick on Windows 10
On 3/11/19 10:47 PM, Paul wrote:
T wrote: On 3/10/19 1:10 PM, Mike wrote: you can fly before your buy. That's a myth. If you install from the Live USB's installer, you get the same exact thing as was on the Live stick.Â* Everything that worked with the stick will work installed. There is only one exception I have come across.Â* RHEL does not work natively with C236 chipsets, but will work with the Live USB because it is SLOWER and the problem is a timing issue.Â* And RHEL won't fix unless you pay them to. Well, that's not true. It's true if the Live USB has a persistent store loaded somewhere on the system, to store state information between sessions. It's not true, if you're just using a DVD with "distro X" on it. A DVD by itself, doesn't have a persistent store on it. Anything which involves DKMS, is going to require a reboot (to pick up the modified kernel), and in the process, the state information is lost. This means you can't install the NVidia graphics driver in Linux, unless you have a persistent store. Similarly, you can't install VirtualBox or VMWare Player, as both of those sport materials which are installed via DKMS. For some value of "trivial evaluation", sure, you can see what "ls" does, what "mv" does, run the calculator maybe. But the fullest extent of possibilities, is going to need a persistent store. And when you install the OS, that's the "ultimate persistent store". Â*Â* Paul Paul, I am constantly installing from Live USB. The desktop may be a bit different looking, but all the programs on the Live are also installed on your hard dive. It is my preferred way of installing. So, I have no idea what you are not seeing. All can say is that Live USB's are suppose to be demonstrations so you an hands on play with them. And as far as 'persistent store" store goes, these programs are added when the iso is spun, they are not in persistence. Speaking of persistence, I hate persistence. It is use and lose. I just make up my own flash drive with what I want on it. I make the file system ext4, so i can copy to and from as I please. -T |
#84
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Reason *TO* pick on Windows 10
On 3/10/19 11:53 AM, Andr-o-Mat wrote:
On 2019-03-10 7:59 a.m., Big Al wrote: On 3/10/19 1:24 AM, T wrote: GoÂ*getÂ*yourselfÂ*someÂ*LiveÂ*USB'sÂ*ofÂ*KDE,Â*gn ome,Â*Xfce,Â*MateÂ*and youÂ*willÂ*seeÂ*whatÂ*IÂ*mean.Â*Â*BeautifulÂ*deskt ops. And Cinnamon. Cinnamon is a perfect compromise between functionality and familiarity. I am running it in qemu-KVM at the moment. It is whining about my video settings and the desktop crashed trying to install a printer. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Is sure does look easy to use though! |
#85
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Reason *TO* pick on Windows 10
On 3/11/19 11:44 PM, T wrote:
andÂ*theÂ*desktopÂ*crashedÂ*tryingÂ*toÂ*installÂ*a Â*printer. And the auto recovery worked perfectly -- sweet! |
#86
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Reason *TO* pick on Windows 10
On 3/11/19 11:47 PM, T wrote:
On 3/11/19 11:44 PM, T wrote: andÂ*theÂ*desktopÂ*crashedÂ*tryingÂ*toÂ*installÂ*a Â*printer. And the auto recovery worked perfectly -- sweet! Second crash trying to attach to a network printer did not fully recover. Cinnamon does look pretty, but it is too unstable to let loose on the general public. I am sure it will get better. Linux is all about Kaisen (constant improvement). I will check back in a year. |
#87
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Reason *TO* pick on Windows 10
T wrote:
On 3/11/19 10:47 PM, Paul wrote: T wrote: On 3/10/19 1:10 PM, Mike wrote: you can fly before your buy. That's a myth. If you install from the Live USB's installer, you get the same exact thing as was on the Live stick. Everything that worked with the stick will work installed. There is only one exception I have come across. RHEL does not work natively with C236 chipsets, but will work with the Live USB because it is SLOWER and the problem is a timing issue. And RHEL won't fix unless you pay them to. Well, that's not true. It's true if the Live USB has a persistent store loaded somewhere on the system, to store state information between sessions. It's not true, if you're just using a DVD with "distro X" on it. A DVD by itself, doesn't have a persistent store on it. Anything which involves DKMS, is going to require a reboot (to pick up the modified kernel), and in the process, the state information is lost. This means you can't install the NVidia graphics driver in Linux, unless you have a persistent store. Similarly, you can't install VirtualBox or VMWare Player, as both of those sport materials which are installed via DKMS. For some value of "trivial evaluation", sure, you can see what "ls" does, what "mv" does, run the calculator maybe. But the fullest extent of possibilities, is going to need a persistent store. And when you install the OS, that's the "ultimate persistent store". Paul Paul, I am constantly installing from Live USB. The desktop may be a bit different looking, but all the programs on the Live are also installed on your hard dive. It is my preferred way of installing. So, I have no idea what you are not seeing. All can say is that Live USB's are suppose to be demonstrations so you an hands on play with them. And as far as 'persistent store" store goes, these programs are added when the iso is spun, they are not in persistence. Speaking of persistence, I hate persistence. It is use and lose. I just make up my own flash drive with what I want on it. I make the file system ext4, so i can copy to and from as I please. -T Mike was referring to "trial" of a LiveDVD without installation. You can't trial every possible thing from a LiveDVD, unless you set up a persistent store. This is typically done on LiveDVDs transferred to USB sticks, where a 4GB persistence file ("casper-rw") is added to the USB key, so that more extensive procedures can be tried. Such as installing the NVidia graphics driver, trying VirtualBox or VMPlayer. Not everyone has scratch drives for installing Linux for testing. I have a ton of drives, and you can never really have enough drives for this sort of testing. For example, right now, when I'm finished with the 500GB HDD in the Test Machine, I have to restore from backup, to put the previous experiment back on there. For people who don't make a hobby out of buying hard drives, they're not going to have the materials for "completely safe" home experiments. For example, a person who evaluated Debian for the first time, Debian takes no prisoners, and due to some bad experiences here, I only recommend a scratch HDD for Debian. Don't use your Windows drive. I could have sworn I selected the correct option, and it wiped my drive. No other distros had quite as bad table manners. When the other ones say "Do something else", the custom option actually worked properly. I *never* allow a distro to use a default install method. I always select custom. For a first time user, that takes a bit of getting used to, but it's really not that much different than selecting "custom" in a Windows install. It has about the same number of surprises. The surprise I don't like, is having other partitions deleted. And Debian has done that twice here. And the second time, I was *real careful* (bomb squad techniques) and it still trashed the drive. Paul |
#88
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Reason *TO* pick on Windows 10
T wrote:
On 3/11/19 11:47 PM, T wrote: On 3/11/19 11:44 PM, T wrote: and the desktop crashed trying to install a printer. And the auto recovery worked perfectly -- sweet! Second crash trying to attach to a network printer did not fully recover. Cinnamon does look pretty, but it is too unstable to let loose on the general public. I am sure it will get better. Linux is all about Kaisen (constant improvement). I will check back in a year. And you're not the least bit curious as to why ??? If you're using EXT4, it's journaled. The file system should survive with just as much zeal as NTFS on Windows does. Paul |
#89
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Reason *TO* pick on Windows 10
On 3/12/19 1:28 AM, Paul wrote:
MikeÂ*wasÂ*referringÂ*toÂ*"trial"Â*ofÂ*aÂ*LiveDVD *withoutÂ*installation. YouÂ*can'tÂ*trialÂ*everyÂ*possibleÂ*thingÂ*fromÂ*a Â*LiveDVD,Â*unless youÂ*setÂ*upÂ*aÂ*persistentÂ*store. True and an art form in its own. ThisÂ*isÂ*typicallyÂ*doneÂ*on LiveDVDsÂ*transferredÂ*toÂ*USBÂ*sticks,Â*whereÂ*a *4GBÂ*persistence fileÂ*("casper-rw")Â*isÂ*addedÂ*toÂ*theÂ*USBÂ*key,Â*soÂ*thatÂ*mor e extensiveÂ*proceduresÂ*canÂ*beÂ*tried.Â*SuchÂ*asÂ* installingÂ*the NVidiaÂ*graphicsÂ*driver,Â*tryingÂ*VirtualBoxÂ*or *VMPlayer. NotÂ*everyoneÂ*hasÂ*scratchÂ*drivesÂ*forÂ*installi ngÂ*LinuxÂ*forÂ*testing. IÂ*haveÂ*aÂ*tonÂ*ofÂ*drives,Â*andÂ*youÂ*canÂ*never Â*reallyÂ*haveÂ*enough drivesÂ*forÂ*thisÂ*sortÂ*ofÂ*testing.Â*ForÂ*exampl e,Â*rightÂ*now,Â*when I'mÂ*finishedÂ*withÂ*theÂ*500GBÂ*HDDÂ*inÂ*theÂ*Tes tÂ*Machine,Â*IÂ*have toÂ*restoreÂ*fromÂ*backup,Â*toÂ*putÂ*theÂ*previous Â*experimentÂ*back onÂ*there. But a lot of us have Flash drives kicking around. And you can install to them and test whatever you want. The best flash drive for this I have found are from Samsung. No troubles with massive small file transfers. Patriot are the worst. |
#90
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Reason *TO* pick on Windows 10
On 3/12/19 1:31 AM, Paul wrote:
T wrote: On 3/11/19 11:47 PM, T wrote: On 3/11/19 11:44 PM, T wrote: and the desktop crashed trying to install a printer. And the auto recovery worked perfectly -- sweet! Second crash trying to attach to a network printer did not fully recover.Â* Cinnamon does look pretty, but it is too unstable to let loose on the general public. I am sure it will get better.Â* Linux is all about Kaisen (constant improvement).Â*Â* I will check back in a year. And you're not the least bit curious as to why ??? If you're using EXT4, it's journaled. The file system should survive with just as much zeal as NTFS on Windows does. Â*Â* Paul I have not got the time to figure it out. The Live ISO's work fine in qemu-kvm. I highly double the crashes had anything to do with ext4. |
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