Do any Windows freeware apps habitually access the private contents of the clipboard upon mere invocation of the app?

So I'm not at all really sure why only iOS makes the news for this kind of
clearly creepy app behavior... and not, oh, say, Android, or, Windows.

Hi Ant,

It's not just the Windows & Android folks who think it's normal behavior.
o Even the Linux folks seem to think this is perfectly normal behavior.

Windows: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/microsoft.public.windowsxp.general/wDbAqMr-0oY
Android: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.mobile.android/hdNb3BeYm44
Linux: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.os.linux/VmByXYAaJts

So what is confusing to me is why, on iOS, this reading of the clipboard
(by apps that have absolutely no business whatsoever reading the clipboard)
is _always_ considered aberrant behavior by all accounts we can find
(including the companies caught doing it!)...

But on Windows, Linux, and on Android, they think it's perfectly normal.
o Makes no sense.

I agree with nospam, for example, that when the companies who are caught
doing it "claim" it's a bug, they're just making excuses 'cuz you have to
explicitly code this stuff... it doesn't happen by accident.

But at least on iOS, when those companies are caught, they _all_ (so far)
agreed that it's the wrong thing to do, and they all said they'd remove it
(e.g., Reddit, Linked-In, & TikTok, although TikTok was caught long ago so
they are especially egregious offenders).
o Linked-In: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/2VZ5a3QsvBc
o Reddit: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/-gvgKjTALvI
o TikTok: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/dRKgQG8jGo8
o Others: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/IHVirXnbJF0

Why is it always a bug (by all accounts) when it happens on iOS, but not on
the other four common consumer OS platforms?
--
Usenet is most useful when adult post with purposefully helpful intent.

On Sun, 5 Jul 2020 21:50:37 -0000 (UTC), Lewis wrote:

This is a much more complicated issue than these abndwagon jumpers would
indicate.

For example, if I copy a link from a page to an RSS feed and then I open
my podcast app, it will get that URL off the clipboard so that I can
easily subscribe to the podcast.

When I copy a phone number and then open Hiya, it offers immediately to
search its database for that phone number.

These are both desirable features.

The issue is when an app (or more likely a framework plugin that the
"developer" dropped in without even looking at the code) is constantly
polling the clipboard to monitor everything the user is doing.

When I launch the Safeway app there is no reason I can think of for it
to be polling the clipboard, and yet it does. It's not doing anything
for me with that clipboard like offering to search for "Fritos" if
that's on my clipboard, it's just phoning home with whatever is on the
clipboard.

Or I have to assume it is phone home because it is grabbing the
clipboard and I have no way to know it is not phoning that home.

So, I put "Hey Siri remind me to stop going to Safeway because they are
spying on my clipboard" and open the app a few dozen times.

But since nothing like credit card numbers or passwords are ever on the
clipboard (never) it's more of an annoyance than anything else.

People who manage their passwords by keeping a notes document and
copy/pasting their logins and passwords... well, they have a problem,
but it is a self-inflicted problem.

Lewis has a good point that the "bug" can be accidental if the companies
caught doing it (e.g., Reddit, Linked-In, TikTok, et al.) simply blindly
linked in code that they never even understood...

Although that alone, should be a scary thought for reasons that are
obvious, but unrelated to this query...

My query is simply why it's _clearly_ always considered a bug when, on iOS,
apps that have absolutely zero need to be constantly reading your
clipboard, are constantly reading your clipboard...

.... ... and yet ... ...

On all the other common consumer platforms that I asked the question of...
o It's _not_ considered a bug?

Makes no sense.

If it's clearly a bug on iOS for an app that has absolutely no business
reading the clipboard to be constantly monitoring everything you cut into
the clipboard... (which even the companies caught doing it admitted)...

Then why isn't it a bug on the other common consumer platforms?
--
If it's clearly a bug when an iOS app does it, how can it _not_ be a bug
when the Linux, Android, and/or Windows equivalent app does it?

On Sun, 5 Jul 2020 16:38:20 -0700, 123456789 wrote:

some of the regulars seemed to think it's perfectly normal for an
app that has absolutely zero need for the clipboard, to be reading
it.

I see there are a number of Android Clipboard Cleaner apps available. I
just tried one and it seemed to work OK. So I suppose one could leave his
clipboard squeaky clean after use if wanted. The question that came to
my mind is what might the cleaner apps be doing with the dirty laundry...

I'm sure there are tons of workarounds to prevent Android apps that have
absolutely no business reading our clipboards to be constantly obtaining
data from our clipboards...

But what I don't get (yet) is why the Android users who posted (so far)
seem to think it's perfectly normal for an app that has absolutely no
business to be reading our clipboards, to be reading our clipboards.

Only if/when we agree it's aberrant behavior, can we begin to discuss the
workarounds, IMHO.

Although, some workarounds that come to mind, including the one above...
o Auto clear the clipboard every few seconds (or on demand, or on paste)
o Pop up a configurable warning when an app requests clipboard access
o Set a permission, per app, to access the clipboard (if that's possible)
etc.

What bothers me most so far in this thread is people think it's normal.

If it's clearly a bug when an iOS app does it, how can it _not_ be a bug
when the Linux, Android, and/or Windows equivalent app does it?
--
Usenet is most useful when adult post with purposefully helpful intent.

More like ANY softwares? Not just free? I know download managers do for catching URLs.


In microsoft.public.windowsxp.general Arlen Holder wrote:
Do any Windows freeware apps habitually access the private contents of the
clipboard upon mere invocation of the app?

Which specific freeware Windows apps would that be that access saved
clipboard data upon mere invocation of that app, and clearly without you
asking them to?

On the Apple newsgroups, it was posted that many iOS apps habitually access
the private information on the clipboard, sans any user request whatsoever,
to which the Apple users repeatedly and endlessly claimed that Windows apps
do this exact thing all the time.
o Famous iOS apps are snooping on the Pasteboard - Learn Worthy, by Ant
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/XXaeEvEB79Y

What apps do you know of on Windows that access the clipboard every time
you invoke those apps without you wanting those apps to have that data?

--
Life is so crazy! ..!.. *isms, sins, hates, (d)evil, illnesses (e.g., COVID-19/2019-nCoV/SARS-CoV-2), deaths, heat waves, fires, out(r)ages, unlucky #4, 2020, greeds, etc.
Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly.
/\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://aqfl.net & http://antfarm.home.dhs.org /
/ /\ /\ \ http://antfarm.ma.cx. Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail.
| |o o| |
\ _ /
( )

Arlen,

Any reason you are necro-bumping a four /month/ old thread ?

And no, splaffing a number of messages all re-iterating what has already
been said does not really add anything to the subject.

With the advent of the iOS 14 beta, well-known apps have been
recently publicly caught and outed...

Old news kiddo.

Each time they're caught (so far anyway), the company immediately
says it's a nasty bug, and then immediately vows to remove the reading
of the clipboard on every keypress.

Yeah, we also read those articles. Whats your point (if any) ?

However, when I asked on the Android, Windows, and Linux newsgroups,
most of the responses seemed to be "this is normal", which, on iOS, at
least
the response was "this is creepy" (which I would agree with).

Arlen, there is a secret component thats part of many discussions but only
few people know of. Is called "context". Both of the above are true at
the same time, but not in the same context.

some of the regulars seemed to think it's perfectly normal for an
app that has absolutely zero need for the clipboard, to be reading it.

Thats not what they (me included) said. But hey, when you ignore the
context in which something has been said you get conclusion garbage like
that.

Seems to me Android, Windows, and Linux need the _same_ kind of
enhanced privacy that this new iOS 14 popup message provides....

Why are you telling us that ? What /good/ does that do ? What do you
expect from us ?

but, as we both noted, the Android, Linux, and Windows users appear
to be either ignorant,

Ah yes, the mighty Arlen is way above the rif-raf that the readers and
contributors of all these different newsgroups are made outof. :-)

I ask you again: What /good/ does your telling *us* that all the OSes need
better privacy controls ? /We/ have *zero* control about what the
respective companies do.

or, perhaps, they know something we don't know.

Yes, /we/ know something /you/ (you're still not a royalty, so no "we") do
not yet grasp: complaining must be done toward people who can actually
change something about a situation. In all other cases the best you can do
is to /inform/ the other.

Lewis has a good point that the "bug" can be accidental if the
companies caught doing it (e.g., Reddit, Linked-In, TikTok,
et al.) simply blindly linked in code that they never even understood...

Thats called "using (third-party or not) libraries". And its pretty-much
the same as you are doing when you, in your "tutorials", tell people to
(download and) use a specific program to get a certain result ... You
have /zero/ idea about what that program actually does other than what you
read about it. So, hypocrisy much ?

My query is simply why it's _clearly_ always considered a bug when

By whom ? By the company that introduced that "bug" ? Are you really
expecting them to say "yes, we did put spyware in our product, and now you
caught us doing it we will try to find another way" ? Really ?

... ... and yet ... ...

On all the other common consumer platforms that I asked the question of...
o It's _not_ considered a bug?

Most of us are old enough to be aware that you should not just believe the
excuse of someone who did something wrong. You seem to be one of the few
people left who doesn't seem to be. How come ? Or are you just trolling ?

What bothers me most so far in this thread is people think it's normal.

They don't kiddo, they don't. Its just you going doing business as usual,
stirring stuff together and looking at the mess you are left with as being
"the facts".

Question: What is the opposite of "right" ? There is /ofcourse/ just one,
right ? Or are you now going to explain that there are circumstances where
it means one thing, and others in which it means something else ? :-p

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

In article , lable says...

Arlen,

Any reason you are necro-bumping a four /month/ old thread ?


The notion of "necro-bumping" brought a little joy into my Monday morning...


--

Phil, London

Ant wrote:
More like ANY softwares? Not just free? I know download managers do for catching URLs.

Yup. There's no such thing as "private contents" on the clipboard. All apps
always have access to anything in the clipboard.

It is why password managers have a method for scrubbing a copied password
from the clipboard after 30 seconds.

On Mon, 6 Jul 2020 11:53:03 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote:

Yup. There's no such thing as "private contents" on the clipboard. All apps
always have access to anything in the clipboard.

It is why password managers have a method for scrubbing a copied password
from the clipboard after 30 seconds.

Hi Ant,

People who say all apps do it don't seem to comprehend the actual question.

While you're not an apologist, Chris is, where Chris has proven time and
again to not comprehend even the _simplest_ of problem sets. So my
conversation with you can be on an adult level, whereas, with Chris or any
of the other worthless pieces of ****, there is no possibility for an adult
conversation.

To the point that "every app can do it", I really wish people would stop
repeating what we already know, which is that the clipboard "can" be read
by any app, where, it was stated LONG AGO that the problem isn't even close
to that.

So, to repeat what is already known, and which is not the point, is like
saying a stupid platitude which solves no problem.

Anyone who claims "all apps can do it" as the answer to the question...
o Has no clue what the question is.

The question is simple and I'm no genius, so it's shocking that so many
people can't yet comprehend the simple question - cuz it's very simple.

Why is it always obviously and clearly a bug on iOS when an app that has no
business reading the clipboard is caught reading the clipboard, and yet, on
Windows, people don't consider that very same action by that very same app,
a bug?
--
People who say all apps do it don't seem to comprehend the actual question.

On Mon, 6 Jul 2020 11:16:18 +0100, Philip Herlihy wrote:

The notion of "necro-bumping" brought a little joy into my Monday morning...

Hi Philip Herlihy,

I don't know you so I'll let you in on an obvious secret, OK?

1. Rudy Wieser is a well known worthless piece of ****.
2. He can't add value to _any_ thread, and never has.
3. Worse, he has _zero_ intention (or capability) to add value.

Rudy just complains like a whiny child, where he's on Usenet purely for his
own amusmement, which is fine as long as he doesn't infest a thread where
adults are trying to get something done.

As an adult, a well educated one at that, who is trying to get something
done, your post was not only worthless, but it proves that you, like Rudy,
do not seem to comprehend even the _simplest_ of timelines.

I don't know yet if you're just ignorant, or actually stupid like Rudy, so
I'll repeat for your benefit the time line makes sense to any adult.

I'll put it in _simple_ words for you so you have a chance at cognition.

OK?

1. The thread was opened when TikTok got caught reading the clipboard
(where TikTok immediately declared it a bug they would fix)

2. The thread was revitalized with new information this week when, again,
TikTok got caught, as did over 50 other apps, two of which are Reddit
and Linked-In, all three of whom declared it a bug they would fix.

If you can't comprehend those obvious facts, then open a thread where you
and Rudy Wieser can both be pieces of worthless **** on some other thread.

OK?
--
If that timeline doesn't make sense to you, then I'll know the answer to
the question of whether you're just ignorant, or incredibly stupid like
Rudy clearly is.

On Mon, 6 Jul 2020 11:51:07 +0200, R.Wieser wrote:

Any reason you are necro-bumping a four /month/ old thread ?

Hi Rudy,

You don't even comprehend the question...
o As always, you never add value - you simply complain like a whiny child.

The adults will be able to comprehend the enigma, which is, essentially:
a. Why, when this happens on iOS, by all accounts, it's a bug...
b. But, when it happens on the other operating systems, it's not?

This post is not for Rudy (who is a worthless piece of ****), but for the
adults on this newsgroup, who matter dearly, since they own the brain power
that will solve this question properly.

To Rudy... I realize you are _completely_ different from me, so you'll
never understand what is supremely obvious to most cognizant adults.

Since you're an utter moron, Rudy, and since I'm always purposefully
helpful to the adults who are on this newsgroup, I'll spell it out.

1. I am well educated, a scientist, and an engineer, which means I know
full well how to _document_ a subject, where, adding an update to a
document (such as to a white paper for example), is normal.

You, Rudy Wieser, are a worthless piece of ****, ill educated, and unable
to comprehend that I'm not on Usenet for my amusement (which is why you're
on Usenet).

You have absolutely zero intent to add value, which is why you can't and
never have.

2. As for the "four months" (which to whiny children like you, Rudy, is a
long time, but for adults, it's how long seeking answers takes
sometimes)...

With all the above in mind, I'm genuinely seeking _answers_ to the stated
problem set, which I opened at exactly the proper time, which you'll never
comprehend, was when TikTok got caught reading the clipboard when they had
absolutely no need to do so, and for which they apologized and said they'd
fix the "bug".

3. The reason for revitalizing this thread, which, again, is beyond your
child-like brain to comprehend Rudy, is that again, just this week, TikTok
(and plenty of others, like Linked-In & Reddit) got caught doing it again.

The adults will be able to comprehend the enigma, which is, essentially:
a. Why, when this happens on iOS, by all accounts, it's a bug...
b. But, when it happens on the other operating systems, it's not?
--
In summary, the worthless pieces of **** like Rudy Weiser will _never_ help
anyone answwer any technical question (they can't); all they can do is
complain when someone else seeks an answer ... where they can't even
comprehend the question, let alone add value to the answer.

Arlen,

The adults will be able to comprehend the enigma, which
is, essentially:
a. Why, when this happens on iOS, by all accounts, it's a bug...

Originally Posted by me

By whom ? By the company that introduced that "bug" ? Are you really
expecting them to say "yes, we did put spyware in our product, and now you
caught us doing it we will try to find another way" ? Really ?

b. But, when it happens on the other operating systems, it's not?

Originally Posted by me

Most of us are old enough to be aware that you should not just believe the
excuse of someone who did something wrong. You seem to be one of the few
people left who doesn't seem to be. How come ? Or are you just trolling ?

Lolz! Posting

This post is not for Rudy

-- directly followed by

To Rudy...

Make up your mind kid, either it is for me or it isn't. I'm no
"schrodinger's cat" you know.

1. I am well educated, a scientist, and an engineer, which
means I know full well how to _document_ a subject

No, you /don't/ know how to do that. You show the lack of it every time
you claim to have created another "tutorial". Its mostly badly written
junk, with ill consideration to whomever has to read/follow it. Something
I've underbuild commenting on that list of "tutorials" you posted a few
weeks back. But you ignored all of that as well. 'Cause thats all you
/can/ do.

As for your "I am well educated, a scientist, and an engineer" claim ? Fat
chance.

Lets face it, your infantile ranting towards everyone who doesn't agree with
you tells me that you are most likely /not/ "well educated". If you would
be than you would not need to do that, because you would know how to defend
your own position by providing actual arguments - which you seldom, if ever,
do.

As for the latter ones ? If that where true you would be able to figure
stuff out for yourself instead of continuously leeching on others,
expecting - no, /demanding/ that they do all the work. And ofcourse it
would also be rather visible in your "tutorials", which it definitily isn't.

You have absolutely zero intent to add value, which is why
you can't and never have.

Originally Posted by me

Why don't you try to prove that ? Just find /all/ my messages and
describe, for each and every one of them how it was not helpful to the
intended recipient of that post. Good luck. :-)

Kiddo, don't you realise by now that "never", "always", "noone", "everyone"
and other indications like those are rather easy to break ? Just a
*single one* opposing it, and you fall flat on your face.

You're (educated and) a /scientist/ ? Ha, don't make me laugh. If you
would have been you would have known the above, and not even have /tried/ to
make that claim of yours to begin with. But here you are, posting it for
the umptied time.

2. As for the "four months" (which to whiny children like you,
Rudy, is a long time, but for adults, it's how long seeking answers
takes sometimes)...

So ? What /are/ those answers ? I did not see any. Just some "a day
late and a dollar short" info reposts and some complaints about stuff that
/should/ have been clear to you all those months ago.

With all the above in mind, I'm genuinely seeking _answers_
to the stated problem set,

Yeah, you do. As long as /you/ do not need to lift a finger in getting them
ofcourse.

As for the "stated problem set" ? Kiddo, just a few weeks ago you asked
for *the* hotkey for /all/ chromium based browser programs that would cause
a specific settings page to pop up. If /I/ can explain to you how that
question sucks than an /educated scientist/ should be able to recognise that
long before he even thinks of putting it to paper. Yet, you did post it ...

And I may be wrong, but me pointing out the flaw(s) in your question AND
making a suggestion to what could be used instead would, by some, be
considered helpfull ... But as I did not stoke your ego with it you
denied yourself to learn from it. Which is /your/ problem, not mine.

3. The reason for revitalizing this thread, which, again, is beyond
your child-like brain to comprehend Rudy, is that again, just this
week, TikTok (and plenty of others, like Linked-In & Reddit)
got caught doing it again.

Yeah, and /anyone/ could have read that on their favorite tech
bulletins/fora a few days back. I know that I did. As such its old news.
And as shown in my previous reply, you have not brought anything /new/ into
the thread. But you sure did show that you have little, if any,
understanding of what was offered in the direction of answers and/or
explanations all those months ago.

The adults will be able to comprehend the enigma, which is,
essentially:
a. Why, when this happens on iOS, by all accounts, it's a
bug...
b. But, when it happens on the other operating systems,
it's not?

Thats the third time you've stated the same question, with the second time
being at the top of your post. Alas, my answer to it doesn't change.

In summary, the worthless pieces of **** like Rudy Weiser will _never_
help anyone answwer any technical question (they can't);

Originally Posted by me

Why don't you try to prove that ? Just find /all/ my messages and
describe, for each and every one of them how it was not helpful to the
intended recipient of that post. Good luck. :-)

Kiddo, don't you realise by now that "never", "always", "noone", "everyone"
and other indications like those are rather easy to break ? Just a
*single one* opposing it, and you fall flat on your face.

Kiddo, as always you refuse to answer even the simplest questions, like the
ones in my previous post or this one, or underbuild your own claims -
instead to just repeat accusations like a broken record. I said it before
and I'll repeat it here : you're pathetic.

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

If anyone ever wonders why I point to Rudy Wieser's posts to prove, beyond
any shadow of a doubt, he's a child who can't possibly add value, the post
I just deleted from him is a perfect example of him proving that point for
me, simply by me pointing to exactly the crap that he spews forth.

Moving forward on the technical topic, we found out today that Android is
apparently adding the capability to notify the user when an app that has no
reason to use the clipboard is constantly reading your clipboard.
o *Those on Android 10... is it worth upgrading from 9 to 10?*
*What are the pitfalls you've experienced & the benefits?*
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.mobile.android/X65cMyzAn-g

And, of course, it's well known to all but low-IQ morons like Rudy Wieser
that everyone caught, to date, e.g., Linked-In, Reddit, TikTok, et al., has
vowed to 'fix' the code so that it no longer snoops on your clipboard.

o *LinkedIn says iOS clipboard snooping after every key press is a bug*
https://www.zdnet.com/article/linkedin-says-ios-clipboard-snooping-after-every-key-press-is-a-bug-will-fix/
"A LinkedIn spokesperson told ZDNet yesterday that a bug in the company's
iOS app was responsible for a seemingly privacy-intrusive behavior
spotted by one of its users on Thursday."

"LinkedIn said Friday it would stop the practice, explaining its app
was doing so to perform an equality check between what a user is typing
and what's in their clipboard... The company didn't explain why the
practice was in place to begin with..."
https://www.theverge.com/2020/7/4/21313214/reddit-code-clipboard-privacy-copy-ios

o *Reddit says it's fixing code in its iOS app that copied clipboard contents*
https://www.theverge.com/2020/7/4/21313214/reddit-code-clipboard-privacy-copy-ios
"Reddit says it's releasing a fix for a piece of code that copied
contents from users' clipboards. 'We tracked this down to a codepath in
the post composer that checks for URLs in the pasteboard and then
suggests a post title based on the text contents of the URL,' a Reddit
spokesperson wrote in an email to The Verge..."
"'We removed this code and are releasing the fix on July 14th'."

o *TikTok says it will stop accessing clipboard content on iOS devices*
https://www.theverge.com/2020/6/26/21304228/tiktok-security-ios-clipboard-access-ios14-beta-feature

"A TikTok spokesperson said in a statement emailed to The Verge on Friday
that it had submitted an update to the App Store to remove the feature,
which it described as an anti-spam measure. The feature was never
introduced to Android devices, according to the company."

And we found out that there are Linux variants which protect the clipboard:
o https://www.qubes-os.org/
o https://www.qubes-os.org/doc/
o https://www.qubes-os.org/doc/copy-paste/
"On Copy/Paste Security
The scheme is secure because it doesn't allow other VMs to steal the
content of the clipboard."
etc.

So we have progress in three of the four common consumer OS's I use:
o iOS 14 will notify the user
o Android 10 (reputedly) will notify the user
o Linux (at least with Qubes) reputedly will not allow the app access

We just need to figure more about how Microsoft plans to handle it.
--
Usenet is wonderful when everyone pitches in helpfully with knowledge.

On Mon, 6 Jul 2020 at 19:42:32, R.Wieser wrote:
Arlen,
[lots of stuff I agree with snipped]

Rudy,
please stop replying to Arlen - I know it's hard. But the rest of us
have mostly killfiled him, so only see his output when someone does a
public reply to him. (Replying to him serves little or no purpose; he's
incapable of absorbing the point[s] you're trying to make.)

[To self:]
John,
please stop asking Rudy (and others) to stop replying to Arlen.

(-:
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

The death of democracy is not likely to be an assassination from ambush.
It will be a slow extinction from apathy, indifference, and undernourishment.
-Robert Maynard Hutchins, educator (1899-1977)

On Mon, 6 Jul 2020 22:41:16 +0100, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

he's
incapable of absorbing the point[s] you're trying to make.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Hi J. P. Gilliver,

I've always considered you an adult, so I'm going to ask you a simple adult
question, ok?

An adult has at least a single fact backing up his belief system, right?
o Do you?

Let's see, shall we?
o I'm going to ask you an _adult_ question, John P. Gilliver.

It's only three words, but I think you'll _fail_ this simple question.
o Name just one

Name once in the entire history of Usenet, where I did what you claimed.
o Name just once.

Point to even a _single_ post, which is not an attempt to get the trolls
(like Rudy Wieser) to simply go away and infest some other thread.

Point to one post, John Gilliver, where I did what you claim.
o Point to a single one.
--
The mark of a bull****ter is they can't back up a single claim they make.

On 06 Jul 2020 21:55:50 GMT, Stephane CARPENTIER wrote:

Yes, but no. With android and I'd say the same for iOS, the application
is requesting its requirements at the installation process. And once
granted it doesn't request anything any more and you don't know what is
done. Except when you have wifi, data and everything off by default and
the application is requesting you to put it on.

Hi Stephane,

Yes but no.

Here's the "Yes"...
"Explanation: Any applications that declare the permission
android.permission.READ_CLIPBOARD in their AndroidManifest.xml file
is automatically granted this permission when it is installed,
meaning they can read the Android clipboard.

Although many devices have access to a permission management control
system in Settings, READ_CLIPBOARD is not something users can restrict
from apps (unless you're a user of certain custom ROMs such as
LineageOS.)"
https://www.xda-developers.com/stop-apps-reading-android-clipboard/

Here's the "but no"...
"However, there's actually a hidden way of restricting the permission
apps use to read your clipboard... We used the hidden appops command
line interface, which lets us restrict more permissions than is shown
in Settings."
https://www.xda-developers.com/stop-apps-reading-android-clipboard/

It's a pleasure to discuss things with you because, with you, we can move
forward from what we all knew before this thread existed, instead of doing
what most people are doing, which is rehashing what everyone already knows.

While you seem to be the only one so far who has posted (that I've
responded to anyway) that seems to have _any_ grasp of the issue, as far as
I can recall, Android (up until Android 10 anyway), doesn't have, AFAIK, a
specific permission set for clipboard access (someone correct me if I'm
wrong as all I ever care about, are the facts).

Just like with clipboard protection, iOS & Android are ahead of Linux and
Windows, it seems, at least by default, as we move ahead on privacy (e.g.,
Android now transmits only randomized MAC addresses, by default).
o *Privacy changes in Android 10*
https://developer.android.com/about/versions/10/privacy/changes
https://tr2.cbsistatic.com/hub/i/2019/06/04/d390bc2c-33a3-4def-8d19-1d2c49ef2b8d/macb.jpg

That kind of privacy, by default, isn't yet on Linux (AFAIK), as, well,
Lord knows how many threads I've authored on Mac randomization in the past.

It seems the mobile devices are ahead of Linux, on these defaults.

In Android 10, for example, there are now new clipboard permissions:
o *Read Clipboard Permissions on Android 10*
https://joaoapps.com/AutoApps/Help/Info/com.joaomgcd.join/android_10_read_logs.html
"To read your clipboard on Android 10, Join needs to be granted
permission to read system logs and draw over other apps on your device"

o *No more stealing passwords*
"The Android Q 10 build includes new permission called
READ_CLIPBOARD_IN_BACKGROUND. As the name suggests, the new permission
will hamper random background apps from accessing the clipboard content.
Above all, apps would be asked to get a signature from the OEM.
https://fossbytes.com/best-android-10-features/

Why not Linux?

There is ways to restrict usages to application in Linux. But the
purpose of the clipboard isn't to be restricted but to help sharing
information between applications.

Well, on Android, as shown below, there _are_ ways to restrict apps from
reading the clipboard, which is good news as Android is ahead of the game.

o *How to Stop Apps from Reading the Android Clipboard to Protect your Privacy*
https://www.xda-developers.com/stop-apps-reading-android-clipboard/
(You set the clipboard permissions from your Mac, Linux, or Windows
computer over USB using the freeware adb commands.)
$ /home/user/downloads/adb devices
$ adb shell
$ cmd appops query-op --user 0 READ_CLIPBOARD allow
$ cmd appops set package READ_CLIPBOARD ignore
"If you don¢t see an error message, then the command worked!
Repeat the above step for any other apps you want to stop reading
your clipboard."

"The first command we did, query-ops, pulls a list of applications
installed that have been granted the Android clipboard read permission.
Using that list, we can then decide which apps we want to stop from
reading your clipboard. If you decide to restrict the permission from
every user/third-party app installed on your device, then you can even
start to safely copy and paste your passwords without having to worry
that another app might listen in and steal your passwords!"
https://www.xda-developers.com/stop-apps-reading-android-clipboard/

You pretty much answered that _some_ Linux variants do have this
protection.

Qubes OS is not a Linux variant. It's an hypervisor with a lot of
Virtual machines running on it. The VM can be Linux or Windows. But for
the privacy, it's a lot more heavier to handle, the people don't want it
without reason.

Ah, thanks for clarifying what Qubes OS is, as this is my first exposure.

What I like about iOS and Android's philosophy on clipboard privacy is that
you _can_ turn off clipboard access, on a case by case basis, with the
latest iOS 14, and, apparently, with multiple Android versions (where it's
simply easier to do now, in Android 10, reputedly).

It would be nice for "basic" Linux (e.g., ubuntu) to have this option,
just as iOS 14 and now, Android 10, have this option.

It's not an option in Linux. The design is different. And I trust a
little bit the applications I'm putting in because they aren't very
popular and around from a long time. They are all open source, so a
malware could be found more easily.

Agreed.

Overall, open source helps the user because we can presume "somebody" who
knows what they're doing has "inspected" the code. (Let's hope.)

I do get my hairs on end when people, like they did in this thread, suggest
"everyone" (even those who don't code!) still read the code, in order to
assess what the code is doing to the clipboard... but that's just crazy
(which is why I state that of all who posted, only you seem to understand
the problem set sufficiently to provide useful advice).

I would be very surprised to find that Android iOS have the same level of
security than qubes OS.

Let's be clear that nobody said that, and nobody implied that, and nobody
thinks that, and nobody should infer that anyone said that.

What Android (and iOS) has, that Linux doesn't seem to have, is control
over whether or not an app has access to the clipboard, and, in the case of
iOS, notification when it does access the clipboard.

Does Linux have that yet?
o If not, perhaps it should.

The purpose is not to protect against the clipboard, but against
everything. From the viruses, to the webcam. The clipboard is only a way
to extract information. They wouldn't do so much work only for the
clipboard.

Agreed.
o Later, not now, but later, I'll run a search for the obvious, which is:
"What is the difference between Tails and Qubes OS"
(although that alone might get me on some TLA's radar as an activist!)

However, the point of this thread is _only_ about the clipboard.
o Specifically Linux protection akin to what we now see on Android & iOS.

The
purpose is to let your application access to an isolated clipboard, like
that, whatever your application do with your clipboard is of no
consequence for your privacy.

Thank you for that explanation where, again, you seem to be the only one,
so far, who posted, who understands the problem set sufficiently to advise
others.

In summary, I think, this thread, has suggested multiple related factors:
1. On both iOS and on Android, the user is now notified when an app
secretly accesses the clipboard.
2. All apps caught that we know of to date, have instantly apologized and
said they will immediately remove their creepy snooping behavior
3. All app developers have "claimed" it was a bug, but we all on this ng
aren't that easily bamboozled by their excuses; sufficient that they remove
the clipboard snooping when caught.
4. On Linux (e.g., Ubuntu) native, the user apparently will have no way of
knowing how many apps perform this act when they don't need to do it.
5. As nospam has said, it's "ignorance" driving users (like Peter) who
claimed, without a shred of data apparently, that no apps on Linux are
malicious.
6. The fact that many (most? all?) Linux apps are open source helps greatly
though, where we can "assume" that "someone" who knows how to read code,
has checked the code to see if the apps maliciously read the clipboard.

In summary, most people feel it's only a problem on iOS and Android, and
not, necessarily, on Linux, where, if that's indeed the case, the good news
is that clearly both iOS and Android are doing something about the problem.
--
Working in unison on Usenet in polite discussion we can all learn together.