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Why doesn't Apple just let you manage your iOS file system natively on Windows?



 
 
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  #91  
Old August 16th 18, 08:50 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
nospam
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Posts: 4,718
Default Why doesn't Apple just let you manage your iOS file system natively on Windows?

In article , Frank Slootweg
wrote:

| In other words, the answer (to - amongst others - Wolf K question) is
| 'no'.
|
| The answer to his question is "yes,. of course, this is how you do it"
| and you and your mate scream like widdle babies "I DON'T WANT TO DO IT
| THAT WAY!" and claim that means it's impossible.
|
| --
| In other news, Gandalf died. -- Secret Diary of Boromir

Now you've done it, Frank. But this does answer
the age-old question: Who's more unreasonable
than an AppleSeed? That would be an AppleSeed
who's also a Tolkien fetishist.


Yeah, I wondered how long it would take for the other Apple zealots/


ad hominem.

loons to come to nospam's 'rescue'. Normally they don't take that long.


nobody is coming to anyone's rescue.

what we have are a bunch of people who know little to nothing about
apple products trying to tell those who use apple products daily how
they work and what can and cannot be done.
Ads
  #92  
Old August 16th 18, 08:56 PM posted to misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.mobile.ipad,alt.comp.os.windows-10
nospam
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Posts: 4,718
Default Why doesn't Apple just let you manage your iOS file system natively on Windows?

In article , Wolf K
wrote:

There are MANY ways to get files to/from and iOS devices and anyone who
claims it's impossible is a troll liar ****.
I never claimed it was impossible.


In , Wolf K
wrote:
I can connect miscellaneous devices to my
Windows computers. Then I can see the storage on those devices, can read
whatever files are in there, and write to those devices, too (though
it's kinda pointless to write files to a camera). Can I do that with an
iPad? Apparently not.

you are (wrongly) assuming it cannot be done.


[...]

I said "apparently"...


backpedaling noted.
  #93  
Old August 16th 18, 10:33 PM posted to misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.mobile.ipad,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Arlen Holder
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Posts: 466
Default Why doesn't Apple just let you manage your iOS file system natively on Windows?

On 16 Aug 2018 12:50:42 GMT, nospam wrote:

it's simply a list of some of the available options, and a very
incomplete list at that.


And yet, iOS still can't do the simplest of things, which was shown in the
opening post of this thread ... and which handles large files and large
numbers of them far better than the kludges you propose - simply because
iOS, yet again, can't even do the simplest of things.

Like let you manage your iOS file system natively on Windows?

Why not?
  #94  
Old August 16th 18, 10:47 PM posted to comp.mobile.ipad,alt.comp.os.windows-10,misc.phone.mobile.iphone
Your Name
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Posts: 125
Default Why doesn't Apple just let you manage your iOS file system natively on Windows?

On 2018-08-16 21:13:33 +0000, Wolf K said:
On 2018-08-16 15:50, nospam wrote:
In article , Wolf K
wrote:

i'll spell it out for you:
files can be transferred *directly* *between* *devices*, peer to peer,
without using what you're calling 'the web', using any of a number of
protocols, with or without cables.

Yeah, I know that.

apparently not.

So tell us exactly how to use a cabled connection between an iOS or OS/x
device and a Windows or Android device.

i did.

Oh, and without having to use an
"app" on either device. Just the file manager (as implied in the OP's
subject and original post).

the file manager *is* an app.

I love the way you use definitions to prove your point.


oh, the irony.

A file manager is not an app. It's a utility.


more word games.


Nope. "App" is Apple-speak. In the DOS/Windows world, there was from
the beginning a distinction between utilities and programs. True, some
software combines both functions, but that's another issue.


Nope. A "utility" is just a sub-category (one of many) of "computer
program", not a category by itself



windows explorer is an app, one which happens to be included with the
os.


"App" is Apple speak. IMO MS's adoption of the word was a serious mistake.


"App" has nothing to do with Apple as such - Apple didn't invent the
abbreviation, but has made it far, far more popular than it used to be.
The term "app" originated with the phrase "killer app" way back in the
1980s (if not even earlier).
https://blog.oxforddictionaries.com/2011/10/14/the-rise-of-the-app/

"App" is simply a shortened form of "application" (or more precisely
"software application"), which in turn is just another way of saying
"computer program", which has various sub-types such as "utility",
"game", "office" / "business" / "productivity", "operating system",
"development", "emulator", etc.

So yes, even though I hate having to agree with brainless nospam, a
"file manager" (including Finder on the Mac) *is* actually just another
type of "app".


  #95  
Old August 16th 18, 11:11 PM posted to comp.mobile.ipad,alt.comp.os.windows-10,misc.phone.mobile.iphone
Paul[_32_]
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Posts: 11,873
Default Why doesn't Apple just let you manage your iOS file system nativelyon Windows?

Your Name wrote:


So yes, even though I hate having to agree with brainless nospam, a
"file manager" (including Finder on the Mac) *is* actually just another
type of "app".


It doesn't have to be.

The File Manager on Windows is a part of the DE.

In Windows 10 in fact, the entire desktop DE is
made of HTML/JS and the file manager is just
part of that. To give an example, if you feed MSEdge
("an app") a particular task, it ends up causing exhaustion
of DE resources to the point, that double-clicking
an icon on the desktop causes no reaction for 20 seconds.
The application will not launch. One core on the CPU
will be railed for those 20 seconds, and the task
running (a service) will prevent other desktop
things from happening.

There's a lot less isolation in Microsoft softwares,
than in things coming from third parties. And even
then, it would depend on whether they're traditional
Win32 or they're "Metro" as to what pile of
spaghetti they're riding on top of.

To give another example you might have seen exhibited
on a machine at one point, when explorer.exe (i.e.
the WinXP file manager but also the DE) takes a crap,
all the decorations on the desktop disappear, *including*
every file manager folder view you were looking at.
As soon as Dr.Watson app crash reporter is finished
submitting a report to home base, a new copy of
explorer.exe is forked and the decorations come
back. However, all your context, all your old
folder views, you'll have to restore those manually
one at a time. The file manager context is lost on
the restart of the entire desktop decoration.

You only learn some of this stuff, by watching things
blow up, and then you can see a model emerge as
to how it's wired. I was kinda shocked, when viewing
a 36,300 page PDF in MSEdge, knackered the entire
desktop and prevented program launch clicks from
registering... until a garbage collector task of
some sort was finished doing its thing. Three
cheers for single threaded designs... In the latest
Win10, Microsoft has patched this, so the garbage
collector doesn't get into a loop, but you may
still spot a 20 second outage in the desktop.

Now, if a third party writes a File Manager (people
have done this in the past), there is better isolation
between that tipping over, and the DE staying upright.
For the Microsoft file manager, it's part of the
spaghetti.

The only good thing we could say about WinXP, is the
Task Manager was well enough designed, it was
relatively independent of DE failures. You could
(most of the time) count on it staying upright - almost
like the resources it used were statically allocated
at startup.

When you compare that to Windows 10, the Task Manager
there is part of the spaghetti, and you can quite
easily lose control of the OS, because Task Manager
won't respond in less than an hour or two. It
becomes molasses slow, mouse cursors overshoot,
attempts to tab to a field to kill something,
take ten minutes, and you don't know how many
key presses registered. Now *that's* not
a Task Manager. That's a horror show.

Paul
  #96  
Old August 16th 18, 11:12 PM posted to misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.mobile.ipad,alt.comp.os.windows-10
nospam
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Posts: 4,718
Default Why doesn't Apple just let you manage your iOS file system natively on Windows?

In article , Wolf K
wrote:


Oh, and without having to use an
"app" on either device. Just the file manager (as implied in the OP's
subject and original post).

the file manager *is* an app.

I love the way you use definitions to prove your point.


oh, the irony.

A file manager is not an app. It's a utility.


more word games.


Nope. "App" is Apple-speak.


nope.

app is short for application, a term which goes back many decades.

computers were not common back then, so few people heard it used. these
days, it's common usage, on multiple platforms.

there are also web apps, java applets and other variants, none of which
are apple-specific.

according to this, the first known use of app is 1981:
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/app
while this puts it at 1985:
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/app

wikipedia says the word applet was first used in 1990, in pc magazine.
perhaps you are unaware, but pc magazine is *not* a magazine that
writes about apple products.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Applet#History
The word applet was first used in 1990 in PC Magazine. However, the
concept of an applet, or more broadly a small interpreted program
downloaded and executed by the user, dates at least to RFC 5 (1969)
by Jeff Rulifson, which described the Decode-Encode Language (DEL),
which was designed to allow remote use of the oN-Line System (NLS)
over ARPANET, by downloading small programs to enhance the
interaction. This has been specifically credited as a forerunner of
Java's downloadable programs in RFC 2555. Applet is an event driven
program .

this clearly doesn't look anything like any apple product. note 'apps'
in the top left corner:
http://www.osnews.com/img/24882/apps.PNG

once again, you're wrong. very wrong.

In the DOS/Windows world, there was from the
beginning a distinction between utilities and programs.


utilities are a subset of programs, also known as apps.

i've heard people call windows apps 'executables' because of the .exe
extension, or even pronouncing .exe as a word, i.e., 'exee'.

programs are what's handed out at the theater, or what people watch on
tv.

utilities are water, electricity, phone, etc. and regulated by the
public utility commission.

word games are boring. if that's all you have, then you have nothing.

True, some
software combines both functions, but that's another issue.


no, it's not another issue.

windows explorer is an app, one which happens to be included with the
os.


"App" is Apple speak. IMO MS's adoption of the word was a serious mistake.


again, app is *not* apple-speak and the adoption was the world, not any
specific company.

a decade ago, tweeting was something birds did. today, it's what humans
do, sometimes to their regret.

languages evolve. deal with it.

using what's included may be convenient, but it is generally not the
best choice for much beyond the simplest of tasks.

Technically, it's a more
or less elaborate front end for what used to be done with the CLI. the
Windows CLI is no longer as useful as it used to be, unfortunately.


actually, it much more than that. [...]


Hence my use of "more or less". Explorer is not the only file manager
for Windows. It dominates only because its budnled with Windows.


more or less implies a rough equivalence between the two.

that is false.

wrong once again.
  #97  
Old August 17th 18, 02:19 AM posted to comp.mobile.ipad,alt.comp.os.windows-10,misc.phone.mobile.iphone
Your Name
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Default Why doesn't Apple just let you manage your iOS file system natively on Windows?

On 2018-08-16 22:11:47 +0000, Paul said:
Your Name wrote:

So yes, even though I hate having to agree with brainless nospam, a
"file manager" (including Finder on the Mac) *is* actually just another
type of "app".


It doesn't have to be.

The File Manager on Windows is a part of the DE.

In Windows 10 in fact, the entire desktop DE is
made of HTML/JS and the file manager is just
part of that.


Which means it's an HTML / Java Script program ... so no difference at
all, and *is* just another "app".



To give an example, if you feed MSEdge
("an app") a particular task, it ends up causing exhaustion
of DE resources to the point, that double-clicking
an icon on the desktop causes no reaction for 20 seconds.
The application will not launch. One core on the CPU
will be railed for those 20 seconds, and the task
running (a service) will prevent other desktop
things from happening.

snip

The fact that it's a crappy app doesn't stop it being an app.

  #98  
Old August 17th 18, 02:42 AM posted to misc.phone.mobile.iphone,alt.comp.os.windows-10,comp.mobile.ipad
Your Name
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Posts: 125
Default Why doesn't Apple just let you manage your iOS file system natively on Windows?

On 2018-08-17 01:20:12 +0000, Wolf K said:
On 2018-08-16 17:47, Your Name wrote:
On 2018-08-16 21:13:33 +0000, Wolf K said:
On 2018-08-16 15:50, nospam wrote:
In article , Wolf K
wrote:

i'll spell it out for you:
files can be transferred *directly* *between* *devices*, peer to peer,
without using what you're calling 'the web', using any of a number of
protocols, with or without cables.

Yeah, I know that.

apparently not.

So tell us exactly how to use a cabled connection between an iOS or OS/x
device and a Windows or Android device.

i did.

Oh, and without having to use an
"app" on either device. Just the file manager (as implied in the OP's
subject and original post).

the file manager *is* an app.

I love the way you use definitions to prove your point.

oh, the irony.

A file manager is not an app. It's a utility.

more word games.

Nope. "App" is Apple-speak. In the DOS/Windows world, there was from
the beginning a distinction between utilities and programs. True, some
software combines both functions, but that's another issue.


Nope. A "utility" is just a sub-category (one of many) of "computer
program", not a category by itself


So's "app", which as I recall was an abbreviation for "application
program", which is the sub-category that contrast with "utility", and
includes sub-sub-categoroies like "game", Image processor", etc.. The
Apple appropriated the word, and MS borrowed it back.

BTW, if you want to discuss the meanings of words, first find out
lexicographers do it. The definers of a technical term don't own the
word. It may irk that a technical term is used incorrectly, ie,
non-technically, but that's how English speakers deal with new words.


Good God! Here we go again. :-\

An "app" is not a sub-category of "computer program" ... an "app" *IS*
a computer program. "App" is simply a different term for the same thing.



windows explorer is an app, one which happens to be included with the
os.

"App" is Apple speak. IMO MS's adoption of the word was a serious mistake.


"App" has nothing to do with Apple as such - Apple didn't invent the
abbreviation, but has made it far, far more popular than it used to be.


They changed its meaning. If nospam's usage is accurate, which I think
it is, they enlarged its scope, which in effect erased the difference
between programs used to control the computer, and programs used to
manipulate data.

The term "app" originated with the phrase "killer app" way back in the
1980s (if not even earlier).
https://blog.oxforddictionaries.com/2011/10/14/the-rise-of-the-app/


"Killer app" was as far as I can recall later than "app", which was
(see above).

"App" is simply a shortened form of "application" (or more precisely
"software application"),


As best I recall, I've not seen this. I did read about a dozen or so
computer mags and journals regularly. The copies I carefully stored for
many years have been turned into egg-cartons.

IMO, "software application", if it was in fact coined, would make sense
only in contrast to "software utility", which I suspect was =not used,
but who knows? We don't have access to all the memos and discussion
papers etc from the early days of computing, the time when new
terminology was developed, and for a time was, er, extremely fluid.

A search on "software application" turns up hits for "application
software", BTW. I didn't scroll very far don the list, though, and
didn't try a quoted search.


A "software utility" is still just a "software application" and hence
it is still just an "app". :-\




which in turn is just another way of saying "computer program", which
has various sub-types such as "utility", "game", "office" / "business"
/ "productivity", "operating system", "development", "emulator", etc.

So yes, even though I hate having to agree with brainless nospam, a
"file manager" (including Finder on the Mac) *is* actually just another
type of "app".


Usages in the Apple and DOS/Windows universes are different, that's
all. That's why Explorer (a Windows program) isn't an app.


Explorer *IS* an "app" ... it's full name is "Explorer.exe", that makes
it an "app". :-\

Every piece of software you run on a computer is an "app" and has been
since computers were invented - they're *ALL* simply "software
applications" / "software programs". You trying to idiotically (and
incorrectly) nitpick terminology doesn't change that FACT.

*END* *OF* *STORY*
You continue to believe whatever idiotic crap you want. I don't have
the time nor inclination to try to teach morons actual reality and
facts.



  #99  
Old August 17th 18, 02:52 AM posted to misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.mobile.ipad,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Arlen Holder
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Posts: 466
Default Why doesn't Apple just let you manage your iOS file system natively on Windows?

On 15 Aug 2018 23:55:09 GMT, NY wrote:

What further information and tests do I need to perform to help you diagnose
why what you say should work doesn't in my case?


To NY ... let's see if nospam can help you ... but I have never seen him
tell the truth to anyone ... so be careful ... that's all I'll say ...
since he (and Jolly Roger) incessantly fabricate functionality that just
does not exist.

Don't believe me. Just read *this* recent thread for an example from last
week, where the poor OP (Wade Garrett, who is no friend of mine since he's
an average iOS user who is rather dumb) tried valienty to follow the purely
imaginary functionality repeatedly screamed out by both nospam and Jolly
Roger, and, as always, in the end, he reported he had to "just give up".
Copy App from iPad to iPad Mini
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.mobile.ipad/Tufx3qIBZBw

I will state that I do what you want to do all the time.
But I would *never* (ever!) put the iTunes abomination on my desktop!

So your setup is different as mine is native Windows 10 (latest version).
Over USB I get read-only access to the photos/videos only via Windows.
(On Linux, I get far more and I get read/write - but that's an aside.)

Even, so, mark my words ... if nospam helps you ... it will be a miracle.
I hope he does help you - I really do.

But it would be a miracle if anything he says turns out to be correct.
So simply be forewarned that nospam just makes things up all the time.
(He has zero credibility - and obviously - he doesn't care.)

Good luck.
  #100  
Old August 17th 18, 03:08 AM posted to comp.mobile.ipad,alt.comp.os.windows-10,misc.phone.mobile.iphone
nospam
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Posts: 4,718
Default Why doesn't Apple just let you manage your iOS file system natively on Windows?

In article , Wolf K
wrote:


A file manager is not an app. It's a utility.

more word games.

Nope. "App" is Apple-speak. In the DOS/Windows world, there was from
the beginning a distinction between utilities and programs. True, some
software combines both functions, but that's another issue.


Nope. A "utility" is just a sub-category (one of many) of "computer
program", not a category by itself


So's "app", which as I recall was an abbreviation for "application
program",


'application program' is redundant.

app is short for application.

program is an alternate term, sometimes shortened to 'proggie', but
fortunately, that did not catch on. ugh.

which is the sub-category that contrast with "utility", and
includes sub-sub-categoroies like "game", Image processor", etc..


nope. utilities, games, graphics, backup, email, educational, etc. are
sub-categories of applications, or apps.

some of those could be further divided, such as word games, card games,
board games, shoot 'em up games, etc.

The
Apple appropriated the word, and MS borrowed it back.


nope.

apple didn't appropriate anything and microsoft didn't borrow it back.

it dates back to before apple or microsoft even existed.




"file manager" (including Finder on the Mac) *is* actually just another
type of "app".


Usages in the Apple and DOS/Windows universes are different, that's all.


no they aren't, and they're not separate universes either. many people
use both.

That's why Explorer (a Windows program) isn't an app.


yes it is.

You can call it an
"app" if you like, but you risk misunderstanding.


few, if any, will misunderstand anything.

Whenever I see "app"
or "application" outside of the Apple context,


one more time: 'app' is not apple-specific and is used outside of what
you call 'the apple context'.

I expect some
productivity program, unless it refers to something from the App Store
or Google Play, in which case all bets are off.


that's your problem.
  #101  
Old August 17th 18, 03:08 AM posted to misc.phone.mobile.iphone,alt.comp.os.windows-10,comp.mobile.ipad
nospam
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Posts: 4,718
Default Why doesn't Apple just let you manage your iOS file system natively on Windows?

In article , Wolf K
wrote:

An "app" is not a sub-category of "computer program" ... an "app" *IS* a
computer program. "App" is simply a different term for the same thing.


An "app" is what the speaker/writer thinks its is, and what the
hearer/reader thinks it is. With luck, and well-established usage, those
two meanings are the same.


no luck needed. 'app' is a well established term that's been around for
many decades, and not just with apple either.
  #102  
Old August 17th 18, 03:18 AM posted to misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.mobile.ipad,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Arlen Holder
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Posts: 466
Default Why doesn't Apple just let you manage your iOS file system natively on Windows?

On 16 Aug 2018 12:50:49 GMT, nospam wrote:

usb is old school.


Hehhehheh ...

USB is old school... hehheh...

The Apple Apologists will dispute anything & everything that they don't
have as being 'old school'.

Meanwhile, the entire iOS interface is locked into the primitive
non-customizable launcher that was designed more than a decade ago, and
which hasn't improved since.

HINT: Try to simply organize your iOS screen in any of the myriad ways you
can organize an Android screen - and you'll see how "old school" (actually,
how primitive) iOS really is.
  #103  
Old August 17th 18, 07:53 AM posted to misc.phone.mobile.iphone,alt.comp.os.windows-10,comp.mobile.ipad
Your Name
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Posts: 125
Default Why doesn't Apple just let you manage your iOS file system natively on Windows?

On 2018-08-17 01:50:04 +0000, Wolf K said:

On 2018-08-16 21:42, Your Name wrote:
[...]
An "app" is not a sub-category of "computer program" ... an "app" *IS*
a computer program. "App" is simply a different term for the same thing.

[..]

An "app" is what the speaker/writer thinks its is, and what the
hearer/reader thinks it is. With luck, and well-established usage,
those two meanings are the same.

But don't count on it.


Another braindead moron joins the kilfile. :-\

  #104  
Old August 17th 18, 01:50 PM posted to comp.mobile.ipad,alt.comp.os.windows-10,misc.phone.mobile.iphone
Ant[_2_]
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Posts: 554
Default Why doesn't Apple just let you manage your iOS file system natively on Windows?

In alt.comp.os.windows-10 Your Name wrote:
On 2018-08-16 21:13:33 +0000, Wolf K said:

....
"App" is Apple speak. IMO MS's adoption of the word was a serious mistake.


"App" has nothing to do with Apple as such - Apple didn't invent the
abbreviation, but has made it far, far more popular than it used to be.
The term "app" originated with the phrase "killer app" way back in the
1980s (if not even earlier).
https://blog.oxforddictionaries.com/2011/10/14/the-rise-of-the-app/


"App" is simply a shortened form of "application" (or more precisely
"software application"), which in turn is just another way of saying
"computer program", which has various sub-types such as "utility",
"game", "office" / "business" / "productivity", "operating system",
"development", "emulator", etc.


So yes, even though I hate having to agree with brainless nospam, a
"file manager" (including Finder on the Mac) *is* actually just another
type of "app".


Ditto. I remember appz used back then too for l33t d00dz.
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  #105  
Old August 17th 18, 02:23 PM posted to misc.phone.mobile.iphone,alt.comp.os.windows-10,comp.mobile.ipad
Mayayana
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Posts: 6,438
Default Why doesn't Apple just let you manage your iOS file system natively on Windows?

"Your Name" wrote
|
| An "app" is not a sub-category of "computer program" ... an "app" *IS*
| a computer program. "App" is simply a different term for the same thing.
|

You're not wrong. A "proggie" is also a computer
program, as detestable as that word is. But in
general usage an "app" is understood to mean a
small applet program that runs on a phone or tablet.
As opposed to what's normally called desktop
software. (Which nearly everyone calls either a
program or an application.)

The practical difference is big enough to justify
distinguishing them. They're written differently. They
run differently. They run on different platforms. And
they generally do different things. Computer phones
vs desktop and laptop computers generally provide
different kinds of functions -- consumption vs
production. Calling Uber vs writing letters. Apps are
mostly commercial service programs. Desktop
software is generally for doing some kind of work.
Of course, you could have an MS Word app on your
phone, in theory, but it wouldn't be a very practical
idea. Nor would it make much sense to have a
flashlight program or a Dunkin Donuts Valued
Customer Discount program on your desktop. How
would you plug in your desktop and monitor so that
the DD clerk could scan your Special Dunkin Donuts
Citizen ID?

If you don't like "app" = phone software then you
can blame Steve Jobs and Apple. They're the ones
who popularized the cutesy term with, "There's an
app for that". I don't remember having ever heard
"app" before that marketing campaign.


 




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