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#16
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Bluetooth query
pyotr filipivich wrote:
"Mayayana" on Sun, 5 Aug 2018 14:18:16 -0400 typed in alt.windows7.general the following: I was most pleased to not have to get electronic ignition or windows. Both are very expensive and superfluous. Power windows might be nice when I get too old to reach across to put down the passenger-side window. On the other hand, they don't work at all with the car turned off. That can be maddening at the beach while you wait for the driver to get in and start the car. Or you have to get in to turn the key, in order to close the passenger side window before it rains. I doubt 1-2 seconds to turn the ignition to On will matter regarding how much water has rained into your car. By the time you realize that you need to close the window, it has already started or has been raining. The problem is the car owner refusing to let you have their car key to close their windows (because they won't or cannot); however, in that case, you're not getting into their car to close the window, anyway, whether the window is mechanical or electrical. There are rural locations where car owners leave their cars unlocked all the time, even when going into "town" (grain silos with one convenience store). Are we making generalizations based on unusual scenarios? Do those folks actually have a higher density of new cars or are they mostly driving old and rusty pickups? |
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#17
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Bluetooth query
"VanguardLH" wrote
| | It's been a long time since I saw cables running to flapper valves to | determine which air flow was allowed. That's what my 2004 Tacoma had. It always worked just fine. Though it didn't have AC. just heat. | I must not be as tall a you, or I have wider cars than you. It is | difficult for me to reach over to the passenger side to roll down a | mechanically-operated window on that side, plus that motion mandates | that I am out of position to watch the road. Even worse is if you want | to roll down the rear windows.... | I like an electric trunk release. I have a pickup. No rear windows. No trunk. It is certainly easier to have electric windows. I just don't think they're worth the expense. And that's before you end up having to repair them. Further, it's actually rare that I want to open the passenger window. | Both are very expensive and superfluous. Power windows might be nice | when I get too old to reach across to put down the passenger-side | window. On the other hand, they don't work at all with the car turned | off. | | You can engage the electrical systems without having to start the car. | If the car owner grants you entry into their car, why wouldn't they give | you their key? | | That can be maddening at the beach while you wait for the driver to | get in and start the car. | | They would still have to get into the car to operate the mechanical | window crank. If you're inside someone else's car, and they have | granted you permission for entry into their car, why would they refuse | to give you the car key so you could put the ignition into the On (not | Start) position to use the electric windows? Yes, if I need to get into the car I could borrow the key. I'm just talking about basic convenience. I'm out on a hot day. I'm not driving. The driver remotely unlocks the doors. But then I have to wait for them to get in and start the car before I try to open the window. Not a terribly big deal, but an inconvenience that I don't see any need for. I'm guessing you're one of those people who has dual-zone seat heaters. And maybe 3-speed hemmorhoid scratchers built into the genuine leather seats? |
#18
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Bluetooth query
Mayayana wrote:
I'm guessing you're one of those people who has dual-zone seat heaters. And maybe 3-speed hemmorhoid scratchers built into the genuine leather seats? Nope, no heated seats. Wasn't an option back in 2004 when I bought the 2-year old Subie (so it's a 2002). It does have lumbar adjust which I max out - and I really need it; else, I'd have to use a lumbar pillow in the driver seat. Nope, no vibrator, either, or whatever you implied by the "scratchers". My aunt got a new 2018 Outback. It has the heated seats. She and my mother love it as they aren't sitting on a cold seat for very long. We have some nasty cold winters here. When I ride in her car, I notice my butt is getting uncomfy and realize the heater is still on, so I tap the button to turn it off. Haven't been riding in her car during the winter to know if a heated seat makes that much difference, well, to me, that is. Before she had that car, she had a seat heating pad (back and bottom) in her prior car. So, one way or the other, she was going to have a heated seat. Maybe it depends on how old you are as to whether this would be considered a wanted feature. Would I want heated seats in my own car? I'm not sure. Been driving for decades with a ice-cold butt during the winter until my butt warms up the seat. Maybe when I get another 20 years older it would be something that I'd like to have for them old bones of mine. Ever notice when you sit on an ice-cold seat that the rearview mirror isn't adjusted the same as after your butt warms the seat? That's because your butt heated the cushion which flexed more and you're lower in the seat. Yep, we get really cold winters here, so the seats are very stiff at first. I did install a slip-on padded wheel cover. Sure makes a difference in summer. Instead of having a super-heated steering wheel upon return to my car which makes it very uncomfortable to drive until my hands absorb enough heat to cool down the steering wheel, I'm not bothered with having to handle a hot steering wheel. Even in winter it's nice not having to grab an icicle to steer. It also has front and rear outlets for the A/C. That helps when I'm in front but mom is in the back. She likes it a lot colder than I, so I'm not getting overcooled because she wants it colder. Yep, there is a back seat versus your pickup which is apparently not an extended cab or designed to as a passenger vehicle. I like a tilt-able steering wheel. That's because I've yet to find any car that has the steering column at exactly the right height and angle for my best liking of positioning. Nothing fancy is needed. Just a release lever that basically acts like a vise to lock the steering column at a different angle. When I was obese, the steering wheel was higher. After losing a lot of weight, the steering wheel is lower. Would I like a 5-point seat harness in my car? Yep, but there's no where to attach one unless I install a rollbar inside the passenger compartment. Do I prefer a 3-point seat belt? Hell YES. The 2-point lap belts were worthless in a crash. I had one car with automatic belts: you got in, turned the key, and the belt top moved from the front of the door to behind you. Still had to fasten the lap belt, though. That actually got me accustomed to always having on a seat belt, so now when I get in a car and start driving without the belt that I feel "off", like something's missing, and realize to put on the belt. It's not in my latest car and I miss the auto belt although putting it on for me. Was damn easy to snap off if I didn't want the belt over the seat when the car was turned on. Grandma would kid that my car was attacking her as she always took longer to settle into her seat than for me getting in and starting the car. Is having tire pressure sensors better than you remembering to occasionally go around to each tire with a pressure gauge to check? Hmm, I don't need or want that feature but I can see how it is a safety feature because way too many car owners NEVER check their tire pressures. If they're lucky, pressures get checked maybe once a year, like when they get an oil change. For cars that don't have the sensors built-in with the monitoring electronics, you can get an app on your smartphone that works with sensors you'll have to add to the wheels (which obviously means the wheels have to get rebalanced). If you do regular maintenance on your car and do the walkaround before getting in then this would be an extravagance. Sorry, but that's not the behavior of most car owners. It's a safety feature in *spite* of the laziness of most car owners. That's also the point of the ECU with its error codes to issue an alert when something really goes bad or has been bad for awhile. How many car owners can recognize a ticking valve lifter? Car makers have been adding more safety devices because of the stupidity and laziness of car owners even back when cars had rotors inside of distributors that was damn easy to replace. Stabilizer or sway bars got added to keep down the off-side tire to maintain some traction and prevent rollover. I'm sure at that time there were old foggies saying they weren't necessary and just something to up the price of the car. Or shocks with variable needle widths so ride was smooth but got stiffer with better control when the ride got harsh. As far as all the "goodies" are concerned, a lot depends on what you want to pay for rather than does it really improve anything. I've seen folks complaining that someone spends a ton more money on a luxury car than their cheapo commuter car. Depends on how much you can afford. If someone rich spends the same percentage of their income as you do on your car then they have paid out the same percentage as you. They can afford more so they can buy more. You don't want to invest a lot of money in goodies in your car. Other drivers may spend more time in their cars, see them as personal carriers rather than as utility trucks, and can afford the goodies. When I used to have a ton of disposable income, geez, did I spend a lot more. Whose to berate me for spending more when I have more? Well, probably those that don't have a much because they're envious. I could get a fully decked out car, and I did this last time (in cash which threw the dealer for a bit when I refused to sign some papers that had to do with credit checks since I wasn't getting a loan). Or I could get a cheapy econo boxy that barely meets my commuter needs. Nah, no thanks, but someone with less money doesn't have a choice. Does more stuff in the car means more can go bad and maintenance and repair costs go up? Hell yeah but again that depends on what you want and what you can afford. In fact, in the not so far away future, I probably will get a cheap commuter car (that I consider safe enough) just so I don't have to risk my decked-out baby to other drivers or even to the salt during winter. I have a pricey full-featured Outback (still don't like the Forester) but I mostly drive my oldie 2002 Subie wagon. Some folks buy lots of shoes. Some buy lots of hunting rifles, like my dad who had half a dozen engraved Weatherbys. You probably have something that interests you most where you spend more than do others. We all lust after different things. |
#19
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Bluetooth query
VanguardLH wrote:
My aunt got a new 2018 Outback. It has the heated seats. She and my mother love it as they aren't sitting on a cold seat for very long. We have some nasty cold winters here. When I ride in her car, I notice my butt is getting uncomfy and realize the heater is still on, so I tap the button to turn it off. Haven't been riding in her car during the winter to know if a heated seat makes that much difference, well, to me, that is. Before she had that car, she had a seat heating pad (back and bottom) in her prior car. So, one way or the other, she was going to have a heated seat. Maybe it depends on how old you are as to whether this would be considered a wanted feature. I'm surprised cars have enough power for stuff like that. I thought if you jam the field winding on an alternator (a test procedure mechanics use), you get about 12V @ 70A from it. About 840W. And out of that, you have to run the fuel pump, ignition computer, headlights, plus any of those heating loads. It's a wonder there's enough power to do it. Paul |
#20
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Bluetooth query
Paul wrote:
VanguardLH wrote: My aunt got a new 2018 Outback. It has the heated seats. She and my mother love it as they aren't sitting on a cold seat for very long. We have some nasty cold winters here. When I ride in her car, I notice my butt is getting uncomfy and realize the heater is still on, so I tap the button to turn it off. Haven't been riding in her car during the winter to know if a heated seat makes that much difference, well, to me, that is. Before she had that car, she had a seat heating pad (back and bottom) in her prior car. So, one way or the other, she was going to have a heated seat. Maybe it depends on how old you are as to whether this would be considered a wanted feature. I'm surprised cars have enough power for stuff like that. I thought if you jam the field winding on an alternator (a test procedure mechanics use), you get about 12V @ 70A from it. About 840W. And out of that, you have to run the fuel pump, ignition computer, headlights, plus any of those heating loads. It's a wonder there's enough power to do it. I forget why I mentioned it at the car shop but said something like "Yeah, and the starter sucks down 60 amps." The shop guy said, "Oh, some suck up a lot more than that, even up to 200 amps." Seems 400A is typical for starting a car and 1000A for bigger cars, and why you have to not just check the cranking amps for your battery but also its CCA (cold cranking amps) if you're in an area that has wintery cold temperatures. As for how much the car draws when running and whether the alternator keeps the battery [re]charged depends on the output of the alternator. From what I see at some online auto parts stores, a typical alternator can put out 110A to 145A. Obviously the alternator must put out more than the car and all its accessories will consume so there is some left to recharge the battery after you sucked it down after a start. The one listed for my oldie 2002 Subaru Legacy wagon puts out 90A. The one listed for my new 2018 Outback puts out less at 80A. The amp rating is for when the alternator is spinning at some high RPM, like 6000. When idling, the alternator spins a lot slower so it puts out less. I'm pretty sure the parts stores only listed the high RPM rating. https://www.lifewire.com/understandi...ratings-534785 I know some guys that installed monster audio systems in their cars with huge subwoofers and high-volume speakers with matching stereo amps who had to put in bigger alternators. Otherwise, their battery went dead and they couldn't start their car. Since the heated seats, power windows, radio, power seats, digital console, Eyesight, tire pressure sensors, electric trunk release, and so on are all factory equipment, so the maker ensures the alternator can handle the load. It's in my old car without all the gadgets where I add some that I could end up overtaking the capacity of the alternator to keep the battery charged or recharging it after a start. However, the fuse in the cigarette lighter port to which I'm connecting all these extras will guarantee I won't be surpassing the alternator's capacity. I think the cigarette light has a 10A fuse. On some cars, it can carry more load (15A for Chevy, 20A for Ford). The fuse (and wiring gauge) determine the upper limit of all the accessories I'd add to my old car. Luckily it's a fuse that's easily replaced rather than a fusible link somewhere inline with the wiring. What good would be the power ports with whatever fused rating they have if they were unusable due to using the factory equipment? Some cars even have options for even power ports. The heated seat pads that I've seen suck down 8A. Some power ports remain powered when the engine is off. I haven't test what happens to them in my new car. In the old one, the cigarette lighter port goes off with the car. Heated seats are stock gear in the new car, so it's up to the maker to design them to be usable. Add-on heated seat pads in my old car will have to use the cigarette lighter port, but 8A is less than 10A and the pads will turn off when the car turns off. However, I haven't yet gotten old enough where I need my butt warmed when I get into an icy car during winter. After blowing the fuse a couple times, I'd know when I was overloading the cigarette lighter port. In the new car, it better handle all the loads from the factory gear. |
#21
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Bluetooth query
VanguardLH wrote:
Paul wrote: VanguardLH wrote: My aunt got a new 2018 Outback. It has the heated seats. She and my mother love it as they aren't sitting on a cold seat for very long. We have some nasty cold winters here. When I ride in her car, I notice my butt is getting uncomfy and realize the heater is still on, so I tap the button to turn it off. Haven't been riding in her car during the winter to know if a heated seat makes that much difference, well, to me, that is. Before she had that car, she had a seat heating pad (back and bottom) in her prior car. So, one way or the other, she was going to have a heated seat. Maybe it depends on how old you are as to whether this would be considered a wanted feature. I'm surprised cars have enough power for stuff like that. I thought if you jam the field winding on an alternator (a test procedure mechanics use), you get about 12V @ 70A from it. About 840W. And out of that, you have to run the fuel pump, ignition computer, headlights, plus any of those heating loads. It's a wonder there's enough power to do it. I forget why I mentioned it at the car shop but said something like "Yeah, and the starter sucks down 60 amps." The shop guy said, "Oh, some suck up a lot more than that, even up to 200 amps." Seems 400A is typical for starting a car and 1000A for bigger cars, and why you have to not just check the cranking amps for your battery but also its CCA (cold cranking amps) if you're in an area that has wintery cold temperatures. As for how much the car draws when running and whether the alternator keeps the battery [re]charged depends on the output of the alternator. From what I see at some online auto parts stores, a typical alternator can put out 110A to 145A. Obviously the alternator must put out more than the car and all its accessories will consume so there is some left to recharge the battery after you sucked it down after a start. The one listed for my oldie 2002 Subaru Legacy wagon puts out 90A. The one listed for my new 2018 Outback puts out less at 80A. The amp rating is for when the alternator is spinning at some high RPM, like 6000. When idling, the alternator spins a lot slower so it puts out less. I'm pretty sure the parts stores only listed the high RPM rating. https://www.lifewire.com/understandi...ratings-534785 I know some guys that installed monster audio systems in their cars with huge subwoofers and high-volume speakers with matching stereo amps who had to put in bigger alternators. Otherwise, their battery went dead and they couldn't start their car. Since the heated seats, power windows, radio, power seats, digital console, Eyesight, tire pressure sensors, electric trunk release, and so on are all factory equipment, so the maker ensures the alternator can handle the load. It's in my old car without all the gadgets where I add some that I could end up overtaking the capacity of the alternator to keep the battery charged or recharging it after a start. However, the fuse in the cigarette lighter port to which I'm connecting all these extras will guarantee I won't be surpassing the alternator's capacity. I think the cigarette light has a 10A fuse. On some cars, it can carry more load (15A for Chevy, 20A for Ford). The fuse (and wiring gauge) determine the upper limit of all the accessories I'd add to my old car. Luckily it's a fuse that's easily replaced rather than a fusible link somewhere inline with the wiring. What good would be the power ports with whatever fused rating they have if they were unusable due to using the factory equipment? Some cars even have options for even power ports. The heated seat pads that I've seen suck down 8A. Some power ports remain powered when the engine is off. I haven't test what happens to them in my new car. In the old one, the cigarette lighter port goes off with the car. Heated seats are stock gear in the new car, so it's up to the maker to design them to be usable. Add-on heated seat pads in my old car will have to use the cigarette lighter port, but 8A is less than 10A and the pads will turn off when the car turns off. However, I haven't yet gotten old enough where I need my butt warmed when I get into an icy car during winter. After blowing the fuse a couple times, I'd know when I was overloading the cigarette lighter port. In the new car, it better handle all the loads from the factory gear. The long term average matters. The car battery is like the bank. It offers a "bill payer loan" when you start the car. As long as the long term average of charging beats consumption, the battery "stays up". I've measured the starting conditions on my previous car with two meters. The clamp-on ammeter measures peak DC. The regular (voltage) multimeter measures "peak" or "trough". If the meter measures 12V initially, you can measure the downward-going value as your measurement option. The meter will detect and record the lowest value for you, so you can set the meter up, then climb into the car and attempt to start it. With those in place, and the meters taking one reading per second, the car starter motor ended up getting 9V @ 150A, for a 2 liter engine. The battery terminals go from 12.8V or so, down to 9V, due to internal impedance. At the sampling rate of the kit, I could easily miss the absolutely highest value, but the measurement sounds realistic. This was measured at somewhere between -15C and -20C. The load in that case doesn't last forever. The car charges the battery at a lower current flow level over a longer time, to pay back the short term high current event. The charging current is initially high (as the car brings the battery terminals back from 9V to 13V+). And soon it would be charging at a relatively low level for the rest of the trip, to "pay back the bank". ******* The fuses in a car, are intended to protect the gauge of wire used. The wiring is selected for the intended current flow level. While we use the lighter socket for appliances, it still has to properly run a lighter coil (that little nichrome toaster element). The fuse on my little car, was 25A or so, which is on the low side. Other cars have the lighter fused at a higher value. I managed to blow the fuse, plugging in a DC powered tire pump (that I received as a gift). I don't generally attempt such tests, unless I have spare fuses handy. I no longer consider the lighter socket as a power source, due to wasting fuses on testing previously. Some cars have two lighter sockets. The electrical design would assume both are being used at the same time, so the fusing scheme would have to be gauged accordingly. Would they use two fuses ? Who knows. ******* I know how little capacity the battery has, just with my recent alternator problem, and the drive to the shop. I placed a new battery in the car (the previous day). I used a smart charger, to make sure it was filled to the top. (I didn't use my dumb charger, as I didn't want to compromise a new battery on the very first day.) I verified the battery was charged with a multimeter. I started the drive to the shop, and the battery charging light started flashing after only about a third of my trip. Which means the ampacity of the battery was used up, the terminal voltage falling below the acceptable level, in only a fraction of the trip across town. And that's with DTR (daytime running) lights, and no attempt to pull DTR relay. The regular headlights weren't on. At the shop, they told me the alternator wasn't dead, but also wasn't putting out enough voltage to keep the battery charged. But it did provide enough current (if the RPMs were high enough), that I was able to finish the trip without incident. So the "loan department" at the bank, doesn't seem to have a lot of money to loan. Even though the battery has that stupid ampere-hours rating (theory says the battery should have run the car all the way to the shop on its own), it's not necessarily going to manifest itself under real conditions. In my case at least, if I was exceeding the long term average for a moderate length trip, the battery could stay down in the danger zone. They could put any size alternator they wanted in the thing, except if it was made large enough, it would stall the car. The engine has to be strong enough, to handle the accessory load from that thing (at low RPM). The price you'd pay, is having to set the idle higher to handle the mechanical load without stalling. As for the control, the voltage regulator maintains a constant charging voltage, by means of a bang-bang controller. The field winding is modulated and uses PWM, to define enough output to keep the battery charging. When I refer to "jamming" the field, that presents a "constant logic 1" in a sense, keeping the field winding at its highest current flow value continuously. When you jam the field winding and run the engine at sufficient RPMs (i.e. higher than idle), the battery goes up to around 18 volts, and a lot of current flows into the battery as a result. This will cause a spectacular battery failure if done long enough (the shop had seen a few messes from this kind of failure condition - my car has an early version of a protection scheme for that). All the DC devices in the car, need to have sufficient voltage ratings for continuous operation at the elevated voltage, as well as a rating to handle "load dump" transients. While the car battery filters a lot of stuff, things like your car stereo have to absorb insults without dying. And so they also have a load dump spec. This is why you shouldn't connect non-automotive rated electrical items to the car, without considering how dirty the battery rail is. It's hardly a 12.800V source. These are the specs of the audio amp chip (automotive) I use here. A TDA2003. 8V to 18V Nominal operation. 28V max Continuous operation "from two 12V batteries in series". Apparently some yokels connect two batteries in series or use a nominal 24V battery, to start a 12V car ??? The amp chip can withstand that. 40V max Pulse train (load dump) rating. Needs external LC filter. The spec sheet says the suggested circuit can withstand up to 120V if the pulses from load dump are short enough. Mine doesn't have the recommended circuit because the DC source is a clean one (the amp runs my computer speakers). It's more than an amp - it's designed like a tank. I suspect any situation offering more than 18V, causes the output stage to disconnect, to protect the speakers. The rest of the specs are intended to cover "preventing damage" to the amp chip. It also has thermal shutdown. Paul |
#22
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Bluetooth query
"VanguardLH" wrote
| As far as all the "goodies" are concerned, a lot depends on what you | want to pay for rather than does it really improve anything. I've seen | folks complaining that someone spends a ton more money on a luxury car | than their cheapo commuter car. Depends on how much you can afford. That's some pretty fancy justification footwork. I don't think it usually has much to do with what one can afford. I remember back in the 60s the cliche of dirt-poor existence was to live in a shack, with a big TV and a Cadillac in the driveway. People buy luxury because they think of consumer products as talismans that hold happiness and success. They want to be winners. Look at ads on TV. Luxury will make you a winner. If you want luxury that shows you're a winner. Why do you suppose people pay $4K to sit on a boat for a week, being treated like royalty while they risk a norovirus infection? It's a fantasy purchase. Those people usually can't really afford it. They save up all year at jobs they dislike so that they can act like royalty on a cruise ship for a week. People buy convenience for a similar reason. They imagine a successful life to be one of relaxation and entertainment. We want to be comfortable. Beyond that we want to be titillated and we want to be winners. That's not to say that extra features are necessarily bad. But people don't buy luxury because they reasonably calculate that headlight wipers will be worth an extra $500. They just simply hope to be winners. They buy luxury in an attempt to treat chronic anxiety and self- loathing. Woops... gotta go.... My automatic bread butterer is almost done and I have to put a new piece of toast in.... I wish I could also have an auto-bread-jam-spreader but right now that's only a dream, for when I win the lottery. | | We all lust | after different things. Yes. But maybe a more interesting question would be what is desire and what do we do with it. Do you assume it should be fulfilled as much as possible? That's what an animal does. |
#23
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Electrical window controls. Bluetooth query
VanguardLH on Sun, 5 Aug 2018 21:29:09 -0500 typed in
alt.windows7.general the following: pyotr filipivich wrote: "Mayayana" on Sun, 5 Aug 2018 14:18:16 -0400 typed in alt.windows7.general the following: I was most pleased to not have to get electronic ignition or windows. Both are very expensive and superfluous. Power windows might be nice when I get too old to reach across to put down the passenger-side window. On the other hand, they don't work at all with the car turned off. That can be maddening at the beach while you wait for the driver to get in and start the car. Or you have to get in to turn the key, in order to close the passenger side window before it rains. I doubt 1-2 seconds to turn the ignition to On will matter regarding how much water has rained into your car. Yes,it is only "a couple seconds" more. It is an annoyance. And yes, it probably takes less time to put the key in than to manually crank up each window. But I'd like to be able to just open the door and close the windows ("command switches on the driver's side"). Not "open the door, scramble round to get the key in, close the windows, and pull the key out." First world problem and all that. By the time you realize that you need to close the window, it has already started or has been raining. The problem is the car owner refusing to let you have their car key to close their windows (because they won't or cannot); however, in that case, you're not getting into their car to close the window, anyway, whether the window is mechanical or electrical. There are rural locations where car owners leave their cars unlocked all the time, even when going into "town" (grain silos with one convenience store). Are we making generalizations based on unusual scenarios? Do those folks actually have a higher density of new cars or are they mostly driving old and rusty pickups? Or both. I like being able to "pop" the sliding doors from the driver's seat. I don't like it when the sliding door doesn't close all the way, the dashboard nags me about the passenger rear door being a jar until I get out and push is that last 1/4 inch to engage the switch/latch. Another "first world problem." Tradeoffs. tschus pyotr -- pyotr filipivich Next month's Panel: Graft - Boon or blessing? |
#24
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Electrical window controls. Bluetooth query
On Mon, 6 Aug 2018 12:31:30 -0400, Wolf K
wrote: On 2018-08-06 12:00, pyotr filipivich wrote: on Sun, 5 Aug 2018 21:29:09 -0500 typed in alt.windows7.general the following: pyotr filipivich wrote: on Sun, 5 Aug 2018 14:18:16 -0400 typed in alt.windows7.general the following: I was most pleased to not have to get electronic ignition or windows. Both are very expensive and superfluous. Power windows might be nice when I get too old to reach across to put down the passenger-side window. On the other hand, they don't work at all with the car turned off. That can be maddening at the beach while you wait for the driver to get in and start the car. Or you have to get in to turn the key, in order to close the passenger side window before it rains. I doubt 1-2 seconds to turn the ignition to On will matter regarding how much water has rained into your car. Yes,it is only "a couple seconds" more. It is an annoyance. And yes, it probably takes less time to put the key in than to manually crank up each window. [...] No hand-cranked car windows here anymore... Are cars with hand-cranked car windows still made? I haven't seen one in many years. |
#25
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Electrical window controls. Bluetooth query
Wolf K on Mon, 6 Aug 2018 12:31:30 -0400 typed
in alt.windows7.general the following: On 2018-08-06 12:00, pyotr filipivich wrote: on Sun, 5 Aug 2018 21:29:09 -0500 typed in alt.windows7.general the following: pyotr filipivich wrote: on Sun, 5 Aug 2018 14:18:16 -0400 typed in alt.windows7.general the following: I was most pleased to not have to get electronic ignition or windows. Both are very expensive and superfluous. Power windows might be nice when I get too old to reach across to put down the passenger-side window. On the other hand, they don't work at all with the car turned off. That can be maddening at the beach while you wait for the driver to get in and start the car. Or you have to get in to turn the key, in order to close the passenger side window before it rains. I doubt 1-2 seconds to turn the ignition to On will matter regarding how much water has rained into your car. Yes,it is only "a couple seconds" more. It is an annoyance. And yes, it probably takes less time to put the key in than to manually crank up each window. [...] No hand-cranked car windows here anymore... Which is why automatic center punches get carried in cars & trucks. -- pyotr filipivich Next month's Panel: Graft - Boon or blessing? |
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Electrical window controls. Bluetooth query
Ken Blake on Mon, 06 Aug 2018 09:41:39 -0700
typed in alt.windows7.general the following: On Mon, 6 Aug 2018 12:31:30 -0400, Wolf K wrote: On 2018-08-06 12:00, pyotr filipivich wrote: on Sun, 5 Aug 2018 21:29:09 -0500 typed in alt.windows7.general the following: pyotr filipivich wrote: on Sun, 5 Aug 2018 14:18:16 -0400 typed in alt.windows7.general the following: I was most pleased to not have to get electronic ignition or windows. Both are very expensive and superfluous. Power windows might be nice when I get too old to reach across to put down the passenger-side window. On the other hand, they don't work at all with the car turned off. That can be maddening at the beach while you wait for the driver to get in and start the car. Or you have to get in to turn the key, in order to close the passenger side window before it rains. I doubt 1-2 seconds to turn the ignition to On will matter regarding how much water has rained into your car. Yes,it is only "a couple seconds" more. It is an annoyance. And yes, it probably takes less time to put the key in than to manually crank up each window. [...] No hand-cranked car windows here anymore... Are cars with hand-cranked car windows still made? I haven't seen one in many years. Possibly they're still being made. But are they being sold in the US? -- pyotr filipivich Next month's Panel: Graft - Boon or blessing? |
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Bluetooth query
On 08/05/2018 01:18 PM, Mayayana wrote:
[snip] Sounds great. But what happens when another pointless sensor or chip goes, and you can't turn on the heat? In a traditional car it's really just turning on a fan. Climate control is Rube Goldberg-style idiocy -- a vastly more complex contraption, and for what? So that you don't have to decide whether you're hot or cold. I drive an older vehicle that doesn't have these automatic climate controls. I don't find it to be a problem to make the adjustments. I was most pleased to not have to get electronic ignition or windows. Both are very expensive and superfluous. Power windows might be nice when I get too old to reach across to put down the passenger-side window. On the other hand, they don't work at all with the car turned off. That can be maddening at the beach while you wait for the driver to get in and start the car. I had a friend who almost lost a dog because of power windows. The dog was sticking his head out the window, like dogs often do and must have hit the UP button with a paw. She heard the choking and had to pull over quickly. -- Mark Lloyd http://notstupid.us/ "True greatness consists in the use of a powerful understanding to enlighten oneself and others." [Voltaire] |
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Electrical window controls. Bluetooth query
"Ken Blake" wrote
| Are cars with hand-cranked car windows still made? I haven't seen one | in many years. My Nissan pickup is a 2016. Two years old. Nothing electric. When I was looking, Ford offered a basic (F150, I think) model with no extra-cab and few extras in general. I've never bought a new sedan, so I don't know much about options there. And things change: I don't have even one ashtray to keep my change in, but I've got cup holders everywhere I look. I think it varies by company. At one extreme is Tesla, which even updates software remotely. I wouldn't be surprised if they monitor your bladder and cross-reference that with Google maps, then pull over at the appropriate rest area. That's the whole point of Tesla. They're selling a Jetson's fantasy to people with money to burn. Other companies vary in terms of what's optional. One of the reasons I used to like Toyota was because everything was optional. So the base price was low and you could get only the options you wanted. In my current Nissan Frontier I wanted an automatic, so I also had to take AC, bluetooth, cruise control, quad-speaker CD player. Those were all classified as "standard, at no charge". I didn't want any of them. (Though I do use the AC.) At the same time, I had to pay extra to get "optional" floor mats. The standard transmission was $4K less because it wasn't bundled with all those other things. The AC package would have been an option. But some other companies provide much less choice. Some include most options as "standard" and thereby drive up the base price. I imagine you probably can't buy a BMW without headlight wipers and heated seats. It would ruin their image. And none of their customers would want a base model. So options are probably things like whether you want zebrawood or bubinga on the dashboard.... And will that be with chrome or "platinum" stainless, sir? That's why I stopped buying Toyota: They stopped making work trucks and started targetting the suburban pickup driver who wants lots of extras and is only buying the truck "atmosphere" rather than truck utility. So their base price starts high. You can't decide you want, say, the AC but not the chrome package or electric windows. I generally prefer to add whatever extras I want later. It's a lot cheaper. And all models are wired for all options, up to a point. (I'm not so sure it would be a good idea to refofit AC.) It's similar with caps and truck bed covers. You can buy the stock item for a wildly inflated price or you can buy a generic version for a lot less. I prefer to make my own, so it can be just what I want it to be for my purposes and still cost less than either commercial option. I've noticed that a big trend now is pickups that have a steel, body-matching, hinged bed cover. Essentially it's a 4-door sedan with a giant trunk. There may come a time when people think it's odd to sell a pickup without a bed cover. Then someone will "invent" the work truck. |
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Electrical window controls. Bluetooth query
Ken Blake wrote:
On Mon, 6 Aug 2018 12:31:30 -0400, Wolf K wrote: On 2018-08-06 12:00, pyotr filipivich wrote: on Sun, 5 Aug 2018 21:29:09 -0500 typed in alt.windows7.general the following: pyotr filipivich wrote: on Sun, 5 Aug 2018 14:18:16 -0400 typed in alt.windows7.general the following: I was most pleased to not have to get electronic ignition or windows. Both are very expensive and superfluous. Power windows might be nice when I get too old to reach across to put down the passenger-side window. On the other hand, they don't work at all with the car turned off. That can be maddening at the beach while you wait for the driver to get in and start the car. Or you have to get in to turn the key, in order to close the passenger side window before it rains. I doubt 1-2 seconds to turn the ignition to On will matter regarding how much water has rained into your car. Yes,it is only "a couple seconds" more. It is an annoyance. And yes, it probably takes less time to put the key in than to manually crank up each window. [...] No hand-cranked car windows here anymore... Are cars with hand-cranked car windows still made? I haven't seen one in many years. "Yes, You Can Still Buy a New Car With Manual Windows" By Mike Hanley October 29, 2015 https://www.cars.com/articles/yes-yo...1420682584259/ But three years is a long time, and who knows what the lineup shows this year. And who knows what cars will look like, once tariffs are priced in. Paul |
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Bluetooth query
On 08/05/2018 09:29 PM, VanguardLH wrote:
[snip] I doubt 1-2 seconds plus the time it takes to FIND the key (or at least go and get it) to turn the ignition to On will matter regarding how much water has rained into your car. By the time you realize that you need to close the window, it has already started or has been raining. The problem is the car owner refusing to let you have their car key to close their windows (because they won't or cannot); however, in that case, you're not getting into their car to close the window, anyway, whether the window is mechanical or electrical. There are rural locations where car owners leave their cars unlocked all the time, even when going into "town" (grain silos with one convenience store). Are we making generalizations based on unusual scenarios? Do those folks actually have a higher density of new cars or are they mostly driving old and rusty pickups? I remember that (no need to lock doors) from when I was a child. It would be nice to live in a place like that again. -- Mark Lloyd http://notstupid.us/ "True greatness consists in the use of a powerful understanding to enlighten oneself and others." [Voltaire] |
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