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  #16  
Old August 6th 18, 03:29 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
VanguardLH[_2_]
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pyotr filipivich wrote:

"Mayayana" on Sun, 5 Aug 2018 14:18:16 -0400
typed in alt.windows7.general the following:

I was most pleased to not have to get electronic ignition
or windows. Both are very expensive and superfluous.
Power windows might be nice when I get too old to
reach across to put down the passenger-side
window. On the other hand, they don't work at all with
the car turned off. That can be maddening at the beach
while you wait for the driver to get in and start the car.


Or you have to get in to turn the key, in order to close the
passenger side window before it rains.


I doubt 1-2 seconds to turn the ignition to On will matter regarding how
much water has rained into your car. By the time you realize that you
need to close the window, it has already started or has been raining.
The problem is the car owner refusing to let you have their car key to
close their windows (because they won't or cannot); however, in that
case, you're not getting into their car to close the window, anyway,
whether the window is mechanical or electrical.

There are rural locations where car owners leave their cars unlocked all
the time, even when going into "town" (grain silos with one convenience
store). Are we making generalizations based on unusual scenarios? Do
those folks actually have a higher density of new cars or are they
mostly driving old and rusty pickups?
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  #17  
Old August 6th 18, 03:40 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
Mayayana
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Posts: 6,438
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"VanguardLH" wrote

|
| It's been a long time since I saw cables running to flapper valves to
| determine which air flow was allowed.

That's what my 2004 Tacoma had. It always worked just
fine. Though it didn't have AC. just heat.

| I must not be as tall a you, or I have wider cars than you. It is
| difficult for me to reach over to the passenger side to roll down a
| mechanically-operated window on that side, plus that motion mandates
| that I am out of position to watch the road. Even worse is if you want
| to roll down the rear windows....
| I like an electric trunk release.

I have a pickup. No rear windows. No trunk.
It is certainly easier to have electric windows.
I just don't think they're worth the expense.
And that's before you end up having to repair
them. Further, it's actually rare that I want to
open the passenger window.

| Both are very expensive and superfluous. Power windows might be nice
| when I get too old to reach across to put down the passenger-side
| window. On the other hand, they don't work at all with the car turned
| off.
|
| You can engage the electrical systems without having to start the car.
| If the car owner grants you entry into their car, why wouldn't they give
| you their key?
|
| That can be maddening at the beach while you wait for the driver to
| get in and start the car.
|
| They would still have to get into the car to operate the mechanical
| window crank. If you're inside someone else's car, and they have
| granted you permission for entry into their car, why would they refuse
| to give you the car key so you could put the ignition into the On (not
| Start) position to use the electric windows?

Yes, if I need to get into the car I could borrow the
key. I'm just talking about basic convenience. I'm out
on a hot day. I'm not driving. The driver remotely unlocks
the doors. But then I have to wait for them to get in
and start the car before I try to open the window. Not
a terribly big deal, but an inconvenience that I don't
see any need for.

I'm guessing you're one of those people who has
dual-zone seat heaters. And maybe 3-speed
hemmorhoid scratchers built into the genuine
leather seats?



  #18  
Old August 6th 18, 06:38 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
VanguardLH[_2_]
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Mayayana wrote:

I'm guessing you're one of those people who has dual-zone seat
heaters. And maybe 3-speed hemmorhoid scratchers built into the
genuine leather seats?


Nope, no heated seats. Wasn't an option back in 2004 when I bought the
2-year old Subie (so it's a 2002). It does have lumbar adjust which I
max out - and I really need it; else, I'd have to use a lumbar pillow in
the driver seat.

Nope, no vibrator, either, or whatever you implied by the "scratchers".

My aunt got a new 2018 Outback. It has the heated seats. She and my
mother love it as they aren't sitting on a cold seat for very long. We
have some nasty cold winters here. When I ride in her car, I notice my
butt is getting uncomfy and realize the heater is still on, so I tap the
button to turn it off. Haven't been riding in her car during the winter
to know if a heated seat makes that much difference, well, to me, that
is. Before she had that car, she had a seat heating pad (back and
bottom) in her prior car. So, one way or the other, she was going to
have a heated seat. Maybe it depends on how old you are as to whether
this would be considered a wanted feature.

Would I want heated seats in my own car? I'm not sure. Been driving
for decades with a ice-cold butt during the winter until my butt warms
up the seat. Maybe when I get another 20 years older it would be
something that I'd like to have for them old bones of mine. Ever notice
when you sit on an ice-cold seat that the rearview mirror isn't adjusted
the same as after your butt warms the seat? That's because your butt
heated the cushion which flexed more and you're lower in the seat. Yep,
we get really cold winters here, so the seats are very stiff at first.

I did install a slip-on padded wheel cover. Sure makes a difference in
summer. Instead of having a super-heated steering wheel upon return to
my car which makes it very uncomfortable to drive until my hands absorb
enough heat to cool down the steering wheel, I'm not bothered with
having to handle a hot steering wheel. Even in winter it's nice not
having to grab an icicle to steer.

It also has front and rear outlets for the A/C. That helps when I'm in
front but mom is in the back. She likes it a lot colder than I, so I'm
not getting overcooled because she wants it colder. Yep, there is a
back seat versus your pickup which is apparently not an extended cab or
designed to as a passenger vehicle.

I like a tilt-able steering wheel. That's because I've yet to find any
car that has the steering column at exactly the right height and angle
for my best liking of positioning. Nothing fancy is needed. Just a
release lever that basically acts like a vise to lock the steering
column at a different angle. When I was obese, the steering wheel was
higher. After losing a lot of weight, the steering wheel is lower.

Would I like a 5-point seat harness in my car? Yep, but there's no
where to attach one unless I install a rollbar inside the passenger
compartment. Do I prefer a 3-point seat belt? Hell YES. The 2-point
lap belts were worthless in a crash. I had one car with automatic
belts: you got in, turned the key, and the belt top moved from the front
of the door to behind you. Still had to fasten the lap belt, though.
That actually got me accustomed to always having on a seat belt, so now
when I get in a car and start driving without the belt that I feel
"off", like something's missing, and realize to put on the belt. It's
not in my latest car and I miss the auto belt although putting it on for
me. Was damn easy to snap off if I didn't want the belt over the seat
when the car was turned on. Grandma would kid that my car was attacking
her as she always took longer to settle into her seat than for me
getting in and starting the car.

Is having tire pressure sensors better than you remembering to
occasionally go around to each tire with a pressure gauge to check?
Hmm, I don't need or want that feature but I can see how it is a safety
feature because way too many car owners NEVER check their tire
pressures. If they're lucky, pressures get checked maybe once a year,
like when they get an oil change. For cars that don't have the sensors
built-in with the monitoring electronics, you can get an app on your
smartphone that works with sensors you'll have to add to the wheels
(which obviously means the wheels have to get rebalanced). If you do
regular maintenance on your car and do the walkaround before getting in
then this would be an extravagance. Sorry, but that's not the behavior
of most car owners. It's a safety feature in *spite* of the laziness of
most car owners. That's also the point of the ECU with its error codes
to issue an alert when something really goes bad or has been bad for
awhile. How many car owners can recognize a ticking valve lifter? Car
makers have been adding more safety devices because of the stupidity and
laziness of car owners even back when cars had rotors inside of
distributors that was damn easy to replace.

Stabilizer or sway bars got added to keep down the off-side tire to
maintain some traction and prevent rollover. I'm sure at that time
there were old foggies saying they weren't necessary and just something
to up the price of the car. Or shocks with variable needle widths so
ride was smooth but got stiffer with better control when the ride got
harsh.

As far as all the "goodies" are concerned, a lot depends on what you
want to pay for rather than does it really improve anything. I've seen
folks complaining that someone spends a ton more money on a luxury car
than their cheapo commuter car. Depends on how much you can afford. If
someone rich spends the same percentage of their income as you do on
your car then they have paid out the same percentage as you. They can
afford more so they can buy more. You don't want to invest a lot of
money in goodies in your car. Other drivers may spend more time in
their cars, see them as personal carriers rather than as utility trucks,
and can afford the goodies. When I used to have a ton of disposable
income, geez, did I spend a lot more. Whose to berate me for spending
more when I have more? Well, probably those that don't have a much
because they're envious.

I could get a fully decked out car, and I did this last time (in cash
which threw the dealer for a bit when I refused to sign some papers that
had to do with credit checks since I wasn't getting a loan). Or I could
get a cheapy econo boxy that barely meets my commuter needs. Nah, no
thanks, but someone with less money doesn't have a choice. Does more
stuff in the car means more can go bad and maintenance and repair costs
go up? Hell yeah but again that depends on what you want and what you
can afford. In fact, in the not so far away future, I probably will get
a cheap commuter car (that I consider safe enough) just so I don't have
to risk my decked-out baby to other drivers or even to the salt during
winter. I have a pricey full-featured Outback (still don't like the
Forester) but I mostly drive my oldie 2002 Subie wagon. Some folks buy
lots of shoes. Some buy lots of hunting rifles, like my dad who had
half a dozen engraved Weatherbys. You probably have something that
interests you most where you spend more than do others. We all lust
after different things.
  #19  
Old August 6th 18, 07:35 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
Paul[_32_]
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Posts: 11,873
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VanguardLH wrote:


My aunt got a new 2018 Outback. It has the heated seats. She and my
mother love it as they aren't sitting on a cold seat for very long. We
have some nasty cold winters here. When I ride in her car, I notice my
butt is getting uncomfy and realize the heater is still on, so I tap the
button to turn it off. Haven't been riding in her car during the winter
to know if a heated seat makes that much difference, well, to me, that
is. Before she had that car, she had a seat heating pad (back and
bottom) in her prior car. So, one way or the other, she was going to
have a heated seat. Maybe it depends on how old you are as to whether
this would be considered a wanted feature.


I'm surprised cars have enough power for stuff like that.

I thought if you jam the field winding on an alternator
(a test procedure mechanics use), you get about 12V @ 70A
from it. About 840W. And out of that, you have to run
the fuel pump, ignition computer, headlights, plus any of those
heating loads. It's a wonder there's enough power
to do it.

Paul
  #20  
Old August 6th 18, 11:23 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
VanguardLH[_2_]
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Posts: 10,881
Default Bluetooth query

Paul wrote:

VanguardLH wrote:


My aunt got a new 2018 Outback. It has the heated seats. She and my
mother love it as they aren't sitting on a cold seat for very long. We
have some nasty cold winters here. When I ride in her car, I notice my
butt is getting uncomfy and realize the heater is still on, so I tap the
button to turn it off. Haven't been riding in her car during the winter
to know if a heated seat makes that much difference, well, to me, that
is. Before she had that car, she had a seat heating pad (back and
bottom) in her prior car. So, one way or the other, she was going to
have a heated seat. Maybe it depends on how old you are as to whether
this would be considered a wanted feature.


I'm surprised cars have enough power for stuff like that.

I thought if you jam the field winding on an alternator
(a test procedure mechanics use), you get about 12V @ 70A
from it. About 840W. And out of that, you have to run
the fuel pump, ignition computer, headlights, plus any of those
heating loads. It's a wonder there's enough power
to do it.


I forget why I mentioned it at the car shop but said something like
"Yeah, and the starter sucks down 60 amps." The shop guy said, "Oh,
some suck up a lot more than that, even up to 200 amps." Seems 400A is
typical for starting a car and 1000A for bigger cars, and why you have
to not just check the cranking amps for your battery but also its CCA
(cold cranking amps) if you're in an area that has wintery cold
temperatures.

As for how much the car draws when running and whether the alternator
keeps the battery [re]charged depends on the output of the alternator.
From what I see at some online auto parts stores, a typical alternator
can put out 110A to 145A. Obviously the alternator must put out more
than the car and all its accessories will consume so there is some left
to recharge the battery after you sucked it down after a start. The one
listed for my oldie 2002 Subaru Legacy wagon puts out 90A. The one
listed for my new 2018 Outback puts out less at 80A. The amp rating is
for when the alternator is spinning at some high RPM, like 6000. When
idling, the alternator spins a lot slower so it puts out less. I'm
pretty sure the parts stores only listed the high RPM rating.

https://www.lifewire.com/understandi...ratings-534785

I know some guys that installed monster audio systems in their cars with
huge subwoofers and high-volume speakers with matching stereo amps who
had to put in bigger alternators. Otherwise, their battery went dead
and they couldn't start their car.

Since the heated seats, power windows, radio, power seats, digital
console, Eyesight, tire pressure sensors, electric trunk release, and so
on are all factory equipment, so the maker ensures the alternator can
handle the load. It's in my old car without all the gadgets where I add
some that I could end up overtaking the capacity of the alternator to
keep the battery charged or recharging it after a start. However, the
fuse in the cigarette lighter port to which I'm connecting all these
extras will guarantee I won't be surpassing the alternator's capacity.
I think the cigarette light has a 10A fuse. On some cars, it can carry
more load (15A for Chevy, 20A for Ford). The fuse (and wiring gauge)
determine the upper limit of all the accessories I'd add to my old car.
Luckily it's a fuse that's easily replaced rather than a fusible link
somewhere inline with the wiring.

What good would be the power ports with whatever fused rating they have
if they were unusable due to using the factory equipment? Some cars
even have options for even power ports. The heated seat pads that I've
seen suck down 8A. Some power ports remain powered when the engine is
off. I haven't test what happens to them in my new car. In the old
one, the cigarette lighter port goes off with the car. Heated seats are
stock gear in the new car, so it's up to the maker to design them to be
usable. Add-on heated seat pads in my old car will have to use the
cigarette lighter port, but 8A is less than 10A and the pads will turn
off when the car turns off. However, I haven't yet gotten old enough
where I need my butt warmed when I get into an icy car during winter.
After blowing the fuse a couple times, I'd know when I was overloading
the cigarette lighter port. In the new car, it better handle all the
loads from the factory gear.
  #21  
Old August 6th 18, 02:34 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,873
Default Bluetooth query

VanguardLH wrote:
Paul wrote:

VanguardLH wrote:

My aunt got a new 2018 Outback. It has the heated seats. She and my
mother love it as they aren't sitting on a cold seat for very long. We
have some nasty cold winters here. When I ride in her car, I notice my
butt is getting uncomfy and realize the heater is still on, so I tap the
button to turn it off. Haven't been riding in her car during the winter
to know if a heated seat makes that much difference, well, to me, that
is. Before she had that car, she had a seat heating pad (back and
bottom) in her prior car. So, one way or the other, she was going to
have a heated seat. Maybe it depends on how old you are as to whether
this would be considered a wanted feature.

I'm surprised cars have enough power for stuff like that.

I thought if you jam the field winding on an alternator
(a test procedure mechanics use), you get about 12V @ 70A
from it. About 840W. And out of that, you have to run
the fuel pump, ignition computer, headlights, plus any of those
heating loads. It's a wonder there's enough power
to do it.


I forget why I mentioned it at the car shop but said something like
"Yeah, and the starter sucks down 60 amps." The shop guy said, "Oh,
some suck up a lot more than that, even up to 200 amps." Seems 400A is
typical for starting a car and 1000A for bigger cars, and why you have
to not just check the cranking amps for your battery but also its CCA
(cold cranking amps) if you're in an area that has wintery cold
temperatures.

As for how much the car draws when running and whether the alternator
keeps the battery [re]charged depends on the output of the alternator.
From what I see at some online auto parts stores, a typical alternator
can put out 110A to 145A. Obviously the alternator must put out more
than the car and all its accessories will consume so there is some left
to recharge the battery after you sucked it down after a start. The one
listed for my oldie 2002 Subaru Legacy wagon puts out 90A. The one
listed for my new 2018 Outback puts out less at 80A. The amp rating is
for when the alternator is spinning at some high RPM, like 6000. When
idling, the alternator spins a lot slower so it puts out less. I'm
pretty sure the parts stores only listed the high RPM rating.

https://www.lifewire.com/understandi...ratings-534785

I know some guys that installed monster audio systems in their cars with
huge subwoofers and high-volume speakers with matching stereo amps who
had to put in bigger alternators. Otherwise, their battery went dead
and they couldn't start their car.

Since the heated seats, power windows, radio, power seats, digital
console, Eyesight, tire pressure sensors, electric trunk release, and so
on are all factory equipment, so the maker ensures the alternator can
handle the load. It's in my old car without all the gadgets where I add
some that I could end up overtaking the capacity of the alternator to
keep the battery charged or recharging it after a start. However, the
fuse in the cigarette lighter port to which I'm connecting all these
extras will guarantee I won't be surpassing the alternator's capacity.
I think the cigarette light has a 10A fuse. On some cars, it can carry
more load (15A for Chevy, 20A for Ford). The fuse (and wiring gauge)
determine the upper limit of all the accessories I'd add to my old car.
Luckily it's a fuse that's easily replaced rather than a fusible link
somewhere inline with the wiring.

What good would be the power ports with whatever fused rating they have
if they were unusable due to using the factory equipment? Some cars
even have options for even power ports. The heated seat pads that I've
seen suck down 8A. Some power ports remain powered when the engine is
off. I haven't test what happens to them in my new car. In the old
one, the cigarette lighter port goes off with the car. Heated seats are
stock gear in the new car, so it's up to the maker to design them to be
usable. Add-on heated seat pads in my old car will have to use the
cigarette lighter port, but 8A is less than 10A and the pads will turn
off when the car turns off. However, I haven't yet gotten old enough
where I need my butt warmed when I get into an icy car during winter.
After blowing the fuse a couple times, I'd know when I was overloading
the cigarette lighter port. In the new car, it better handle all the
loads from the factory gear.


The long term average matters.

The car battery is like the bank. It offers a "bill payer loan"
when you start the car. As long as the long term average of charging
beats consumption, the battery "stays up".

I've measured the starting conditions on my previous car with
two meters. The clamp-on ammeter measures peak DC. The regular
(voltage) multimeter measures "peak" or "trough". If the meter measures
12V initially, you can measure the downward-going value as your
measurement option. The meter will detect and record the
lowest value for you, so you can set the meter up, then climb
into the car and attempt to start it.

With those in place, and the meters taking one reading per second,
the car starter motor ended up getting 9V @ 150A, for a 2 liter
engine. The battery terminals go from 12.8V or so, down to 9V,
due to internal impedance. At the sampling rate of the kit,
I could easily miss the absolutely highest value, but
the measurement sounds realistic. This was measured at somewhere
between -15C and -20C.

The load in that case doesn't last forever. The car charges
the battery at a lower current flow level over a longer time,
to pay back the short term high current event. The charging
current is initially high (as the car brings the battery
terminals back from 9V to 13V+). And soon it would be
charging at a relatively low level for the rest of the
trip, to "pay back the bank".

*******

The fuses in a car, are intended to protect the gauge
of wire used.

The wiring is selected for the intended current flow level.
While we use the lighter socket for appliances, it still
has to properly run a lighter coil (that little nichrome
toaster element).

The fuse on my little car, was 25A or so, which is on the
low side. Other cars have the lighter fused at a higher value.
I managed to blow the fuse, plugging in a DC powered tire
pump (that I received as a gift). I don't generally
attempt such tests, unless I have spare fuses handy.
I no longer consider the lighter socket as a power
source, due to wasting fuses on testing previously.

Some cars have two lighter sockets. The electrical design
would assume both are being used at the same time, so the
fusing scheme would have to be gauged accordingly. Would
they use two fuses ? Who knows.

*******

I know how little capacity the battery has, just with
my recent alternator problem, and the drive to the shop.
I placed a new battery in the car (the previous day).
I used a smart charger, to make sure it was filled to
the top. (I didn't use my dumb charger, as I didn't
want to compromise a new battery on the very first day.)
I verified the battery was charged with a multimeter.
I started the drive to the shop, and the battery
charging light started flashing after only about
a third of my trip. Which means the ampacity of the
battery was used up, the terminal voltage
falling below the acceptable level, in only a
fraction of the trip across town. And that's with
DTR (daytime running) lights, and no attempt to pull
DTR relay. The regular headlights weren't on.

At the shop, they told me the alternator wasn't
dead, but also wasn't putting out enough voltage
to keep the battery charged. But it did provide
enough current (if the RPMs were high enough),
that I was able to finish the trip without incident.

So the "loan department" at the bank, doesn't seem
to have a lot of money to loan. Even though the battery
has that stupid ampere-hours rating (theory says
the battery should have run the car all the
way to the shop on its own), it's not necessarily
going to manifest itself under real conditions. In my
case at least, if I was exceeding the long term
average for a moderate length trip, the battery
could stay down in the danger zone.

They could put any size alternator they wanted in
the thing, except if it was made large enough,
it would stall the car. The engine has to be
strong enough, to handle the accessory load
from that thing (at low RPM). The price you'd
pay, is having to set the idle higher to handle
the mechanical load without stalling.

As for the control, the voltage regulator maintains
a constant charging voltage, by means of a bang-bang
controller. The field winding is modulated and uses
PWM, to define enough output to keep the battery
charging. When I refer to "jamming" the field,
that presents a "constant logic 1" in a sense,
keeping the field winding at its highest current
flow value continuously. When you jam the field winding
and run the engine at sufficient RPMs (i.e. higher than
idle), the battery goes up to around 18 volts, and
a lot of current flows into the battery as a result.
This will cause a spectacular battery failure if
done long enough (the shop had seen a few messes
from this kind of failure condition - my car has
an early version of a protection scheme for that).

All the DC devices in the car, need to have sufficient
voltage ratings for continuous operation at the elevated
voltage, as well as a rating to handle "load dump"
transients. While the car battery filters a lot of stuff,
things like your car stereo have to absorb insults without
dying. And so they also have a load dump spec. This is why
you shouldn't connect non-automotive rated electrical items
to the car, without considering how dirty the battery rail is.
It's hardly a 12.800V source.

These are the specs of the audio amp chip (automotive) I
use here. A TDA2003.

8V to 18V Nominal operation.
28V max Continuous operation "from two 12V batteries in series".
Apparently some yokels connect two batteries in series
or use a nominal 24V battery, to start a 12V car ???
The amp chip can withstand that.
40V max Pulse train (load dump) rating. Needs external LC filter.
The spec sheet says the suggested circuit can withstand
up to 120V if the pulses from load dump are short enough.
Mine doesn't have the recommended circuit because
the DC source is a clean one (the amp runs my
computer speakers).

It's more than an amp - it's designed like a tank.

I suspect any situation offering more than 18V, causes
the output stage to disconnect, to protect the speakers.
The rest of the specs are intended to cover "preventing
damage" to the amp chip. It also has thermal shutdown.

Paul
  #22  
Old August 6th 18, 03:05 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Mayayana
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,438
Default Bluetooth query

"VanguardLH" wrote

| As far as all the "goodies" are concerned, a lot depends on what you
| want to pay for rather than does it really improve anything. I've seen
| folks complaining that someone spends a ton more money on a luxury car
| than their cheapo commuter car. Depends on how much you can afford.

That's some pretty fancy justification footwork.
I don't think it usually has much to do with what one
can afford. I remember back in the 60s the cliche of
dirt-poor existence was to live in a shack, with a big
TV and a Cadillac in the driveway. People buy luxury
because they think of consumer products as talismans
that hold happiness and success. They want to be
winners. Look at ads on TV. Luxury will make you a
winner. If you want luxury that shows you're a winner.
Why do you suppose people pay $4K to sit on a boat
for a week, being treated like royalty while they risk
a norovirus infection? It's a fantasy purchase. Those
people usually can't really afford it. They save up all
year at jobs they dislike so that they can act like
royalty on a cruise ship for a week.

People buy convenience for a similar reason. They
imagine a successful life to be one of relaxation
and entertainment. We want to be comfortable. Beyond
that we want to be titillated and we want to be winners.

That's not to say that extra features are necessarily
bad. But people don't buy luxury because they reasonably
calculate that headlight wipers will be worth an extra
$500. They just simply hope to be winners. They buy
luxury in an attempt to treat chronic anxiety and self-
loathing.

Woops... gotta go.... My automatic bread butterer is
almost done and I have to put a new piece of toast in....
I wish I could also have an auto-bread-jam-spreader
but right now that's only a dream, for when I win the
lottery.

|
| We all lust
| after different things.

Yes. But maybe a more interesting question would be
what is desire and what do we do with it. Do you assume
it should be fulfilled as much as possible? That's what an
animal does.


  #23  
Old August 6th 18, 05:00 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
pyotr filipivich
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 752
Default Electrical window controls. Bluetooth query

VanguardLH on Sun, 5 Aug 2018 21:29:09 -0500 typed in
alt.windows7.general the following:
pyotr filipivich wrote:

"Mayayana" on Sun, 5 Aug 2018 14:18:16 -0400
typed in alt.windows7.general the following:

I was most pleased to not have to get electronic ignition
or windows. Both are very expensive and superfluous.
Power windows might be nice when I get too old to
reach across to put down the passenger-side
window. On the other hand, they don't work at all with
the car turned off. That can be maddening at the beach
while you wait for the driver to get in and start the car.


Or you have to get in to turn the key, in order to close the
passenger side window before it rains.


I doubt 1-2 seconds to turn the ignition to On will matter regarding how
much water has rained into your car.


Yes,it is only "a couple seconds" more. It is an annoyance. And
yes, it probably takes less time to put the key in than to manually
crank up each window. But I'd like to be able to just open the door
and close the windows ("command switches on the driver's side"). Not
"open the door, scramble round to get the key in, close the windows,
and pull the key out."

First world problem and all that.

By the time you realize that you
need to close the window, it has already started or has been raining.
The problem is the car owner refusing to let you have their car key to
close their windows (because they won't or cannot); however, in that
case, you're not getting into their car to close the window, anyway,
whether the window is mechanical or electrical.



There are rural locations where car owners leave their cars unlocked all
the time, even when going into "town" (grain silos with one convenience
store). Are we making generalizations based on unusual scenarios? Do
those folks actually have a higher density of new cars or are they
mostly driving old and rusty pickups?


Or both.

I like being able to "pop" the sliding doors from the driver's
seat. I don't like it when the sliding door doesn't close all the
way, the dashboard nags me about the passenger rear door being a jar
until I get out and push is that last 1/4 inch to engage the
switch/latch. Another "first world problem."

Tradeoffs.

tschus
pyotr


--
pyotr filipivich
Next month's Panel: Graft - Boon or blessing?
  #24  
Old August 6th 18, 05:41 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Ken Blake[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,221
Default Electrical window controls. Bluetooth query

On Mon, 6 Aug 2018 12:31:30 -0400, Wolf K
wrote:

On 2018-08-06 12:00, pyotr filipivich wrote:
on Sun, 5 Aug 2018 21:29:09 -0500 typed in
alt.windows7.general the following:
pyotr filipivich wrote:

on Sun, 5 Aug 2018 14:18:16 -0400
typed in alt.windows7.general the following:
I was most pleased to not have to get electronic ignition
or windows. Both are very expensive and superfluous.
Power windows might be nice when I get too old to
reach across to put down the passenger-side
window. On the other hand, they don't work at all with
the car turned off. That can be maddening at the beach
while you wait for the driver to get in and start the car.
Or you have to get in to turn the key, in order to close the
passenger side window before it rains.
I doubt 1-2 seconds to turn the ignition to On will matter regarding how
much water has rained into your car.

Yes,it is only "a couple seconds" more. It is an annoyance. And
yes, it probably takes less time to put the key in than to manually
crank up each window.

[...]

No hand-cranked car windows here anymore...



Are cars with hand-cranked car windows still made? I haven't seen one
in many years.
  #25  
Old August 6th 18, 06:36 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
pyotr filipivich
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 752
Default Electrical window controls. Bluetooth query

Wolf K on Mon, 6 Aug 2018 12:31:30 -0400 typed
in alt.windows7.general the following:
On 2018-08-06 12:00, pyotr filipivich wrote:
on Sun, 5 Aug 2018 21:29:09 -0500 typed in
alt.windows7.general the following:
pyotr filipivich wrote:

on Sun, 5 Aug 2018 14:18:16 -0400
typed in alt.windows7.general the following:
I was most pleased to not have to get electronic ignition
or windows. Both are very expensive and superfluous.
Power windows might be nice when I get too old to
reach across to put down the passenger-side
window. On the other hand, they don't work at all with
the car turned off. That can be maddening at the beach
while you wait for the driver to get in and start the car.
Or you have to get in to turn the key, in order to close the
passenger side window before it rains.
I doubt 1-2 seconds to turn the ignition to On will matter regarding how
much water has rained into your car.

Yes,it is only "a couple seconds" more. It is an annoyance. And
yes, it probably takes less time to put the key in than to manually
crank up each window.

[...]

No hand-cranked car windows here anymore...


Which is why automatic center punches get carried in cars &
trucks.

--
pyotr filipivich
Next month's Panel: Graft - Boon or blessing?
  #26  
Old August 6th 18, 06:36 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
pyotr filipivich
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 752
Default Electrical window controls. Bluetooth query

Ken Blake on Mon, 06 Aug 2018 09:41:39 -0700
typed in alt.windows7.general the following:
On Mon, 6 Aug 2018 12:31:30 -0400, Wolf K
wrote:

On 2018-08-06 12:00, pyotr filipivich wrote:
on Sun, 5 Aug 2018 21:29:09 -0500 typed in
alt.windows7.general the following:
pyotr filipivich wrote:

on Sun, 5 Aug 2018 14:18:16 -0400
typed in alt.windows7.general the following:
I was most pleased to not have to get electronic ignition
or windows. Both are very expensive and superfluous.
Power windows might be nice when I get too old to
reach across to put down the passenger-side
window. On the other hand, they don't work at all with
the car turned off. That can be maddening at the beach
while you wait for the driver to get in and start the car.
Or you have to get in to turn the key, in order to close the
passenger side window before it rains.
I doubt 1-2 seconds to turn the ignition to On will matter regarding how
much water has rained into your car.
Yes,it is only "a couple seconds" more. It is an annoyance. And
yes, it probably takes less time to put the key in than to manually
crank up each window.

[...]

No hand-cranked car windows here anymore...



Are cars with hand-cranked car windows still made? I haven't seen one
in many years.


Possibly they're still being made. But are they being sold in the
US?
--
pyotr filipivich
Next month's Panel: Graft - Boon or blessing?
  #27  
Old August 6th 18, 06:36 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Mark Lloyd[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,756
Default Bluetooth query

On 08/05/2018 01:18 PM, Mayayana wrote:

[snip]

Sounds great. But what happens when another pointless
sensor or chip goes, and you can't turn on the heat?
In a traditional car it's really just turning on a fan. Climate
control is Rube Goldberg-style idiocy -- a vastly more
complex contraption, and for what? So that you don't
have to decide whether you're hot or cold.


I drive an older vehicle that doesn't have these automatic climate
controls. I don't find it to be a problem to make the adjustments.

I was most pleased to not have to get electronic ignition
or windows. Both are very expensive and superfluous.
Power windows might be nice when I get too old to
reach across to put down the passenger-side
window. On the other hand, they don't work at all with
the car turned off. That can be maddening at the beach
while you wait for the driver to get in and start the car.

I had a friend who almost lost a dog because of power windows. The dog
was sticking his head out the window, like dogs often do and must have
hit the UP button with a paw. She heard the choking and had to pull over
quickly.

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"True greatness consists in the use of a powerful understanding to
enlighten oneself and others." [Voltaire]
  #28  
Old August 6th 18, 06:36 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Mayayana
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,438
Default Electrical window controls. Bluetooth query

"Ken Blake" wrote

| Are cars with hand-cranked car windows still made? I haven't seen one
| in many years.

My Nissan pickup is a 2016. Two years old.
Nothing electric. When I was looking, Ford offered
a basic (F150, I think) model with no extra-cab
and few extras in general. I've never bought a new
sedan, so I don't know much about options there.
And things change: I don't have even one ashtray
to keep my change in, but I've got cup holders
everywhere I look.

I think it varies by company. At one extreme
is Tesla, which even updates software remotely.
I wouldn't be surprised if they monitor your bladder
and cross-reference that with Google maps, then
pull over at the appropriate rest area. That's the
whole point of Tesla. They're selling a Jetson's
fantasy to people with money to burn.

Other companies vary in terms of what's optional.
One of the reasons I used to like Toyota was
because everything was optional. So the base
price was low and you could get only the options
you wanted.

In my current Nissan Frontier I wanted an
automatic, so I also had to take AC, bluetooth,
cruise control, quad-speaker CD player. Those
were all classified as "standard, at no charge".
I didn't want any of them. (Though I do use the
AC.) At the same time, I had to pay extra to
get "optional" floor mats.

The standard transmission was $4K less because
it wasn't bundled with all those other things. The
AC package would have been an option.

But some other companies provide much less
choice. Some include most options as "standard"
and thereby drive up the base price. I imagine
you probably can't buy a BMW without headlight
wipers and heated seats. It would ruin their image.
And none of their customers would want a base
model. So options are probably things like whether
you want zebrawood or bubinga on the dashboard....
And will that be with chrome or "platinum" stainless,
sir?

That's why I stopped buying Toyota: They
stopped making work trucks and started targetting
the suburban pickup driver who wants lots of
extras and is only buying the truck "atmosphere"
rather than truck utility. So their base price starts
high. You can't decide you want, say, the AC but
not the chrome package or electric windows.

I generally prefer to add whatever extras I want
later. It's a lot cheaper. And all models are wired for
all options, up to a point. (I'm not so sure it would
be a good idea to refofit AC.)

It's similar with caps and truck bed
covers. You can buy the stock item for a wildly
inflated price or you can buy a generic version
for a lot less. I prefer to make my own, so it
can be just what I want it to be for my purposes
and still cost less than either commercial option.

I've noticed that a big trend now is pickups
that have a steel, body-matching, hinged bed cover.
Essentially it's a 4-door sedan with a giant trunk.
There may come a time when people think it's
odd to sell a pickup without a bed cover. Then
someone will "invent" the work truck.


  #29  
Old August 6th 18, 06:38 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,873
Default Electrical window controls. Bluetooth query

Ken Blake wrote:
On Mon, 6 Aug 2018 12:31:30 -0400, Wolf K
wrote:

On 2018-08-06 12:00, pyotr filipivich wrote:
on Sun, 5 Aug 2018 21:29:09 -0500 typed in
alt.windows7.general the following:
pyotr filipivich wrote:

on Sun, 5 Aug 2018 14:18:16 -0400
typed in alt.windows7.general the following:
I was most pleased to not have to get electronic ignition
or windows. Both are very expensive and superfluous.
Power windows might be nice when I get too old to
reach across to put down the passenger-side
window. On the other hand, they don't work at all with
the car turned off. That can be maddening at the beach
while you wait for the driver to get in and start the car.
Or you have to get in to turn the key, in order to close the
passenger side window before it rains.
I doubt 1-2 seconds to turn the ignition to On will matter regarding how
much water has rained into your car.
Yes,it is only "a couple seconds" more. It is an annoyance. And
yes, it probably takes less time to put the key in than to manually
crank up each window.

[...]

No hand-cranked car windows here anymore...


Are cars with hand-cranked car windows still made? I haven't seen one
in many years.


"Yes, You Can Still Buy a New Car With Manual Windows"

By Mike Hanley October 29, 2015

https://www.cars.com/articles/yes-yo...1420682584259/

But three years is a long time, and who knows
what the lineup shows this year.

And who knows what cars will look like, once
tariffs are priced in.

Paul
  #30  
Old August 6th 18, 06:42 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Mark Lloyd[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,756
Default Bluetooth query

On 08/05/2018 09:29 PM, VanguardLH wrote:

[snip]

I doubt 1-2 seconds


plus the time it takes to FIND the key (or at least go and get it)


to turn the ignition to On will matter regarding how
much water has rained into your car. By the time you realize that you
need to close the window, it has already started or has been raining.
The problem is the car owner refusing to let you have their car key to
close their windows (because they won't or cannot); however, in that
case, you're not getting into their car to close the window, anyway,
whether the window is mechanical or electrical.

There are rural locations where car owners leave their cars unlocked all
the time, even when going into "town" (grain silos with one convenience
store). Are we making generalizations based on unusual scenarios? Do
those folks actually have a higher density of new cars or are they
mostly driving old and rusty pickups?


I remember that (no need to lock doors) from when I was a child. It
would be nice to live in a place like that again.

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"True greatness consists in the use of a powerful understanding to
enlighten oneself and others." [Voltaire]
 




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