Why doesn't Apple just let you manage your iOS file system natively on Windows?

In article , Frank Slootweg
wrote:

i've even explained it to *you* a while back, regarding smb apps. or
have you somehow forgotten that?

1) This isn't about me, but - as I stated in the part you SNIPPED -
about Bob-S and Wolf K, 2) This isn't about SMB. 3) Me being interested
in SMB on iOS, unlikely, so PROVE me wrong.

it's about transferring files, and smb is one such method among many
others, which i listed already.

It's about transferring [1] files

yes it is, and as i have repeatedly said, it's *trivial* to do.

a couple of taps, or if the user prefers, entirely automated with no
user actions required to move content.

via the given type of connection,

nope.

using usb is an artificial limitation you are imposing, and one which
won't work between two windows computers, something which you are
conveniently ignoring.

that said, connecting an ipad via usb *does* work for transferring
content to/from ios devices, namely for photos, using whatever apps one
normally uses for any other digital camera (including windows explorer,
which is a bad choice but some people use it for that anyway).

it's possible to transfer other types of files over usb, however, that
may require additional apps. no big deal, assuming the goal is to
actually move content rather than argue.

which has nothing to do with SMB. The "many others [methods], which i
listed already" also do not use/address the given type of connection.

the goal is to move content, not use any particular type of connection.

a file is not going to be any different if it's transferred via usb or
wifi or some other method.

what matters is getting the content from one device to another,
something that as i have repeatedly said, is trivial to do.

apple, microsoft, google, etc., aren't putting up any walls. the only
walls are the ones the user is creating.

So yet another FAIL.

nope.

the only fail is you, who insists something can't be done yet is
trivial.

In article , Frank Slootweg
wrote:

here it is again:
the reality is that there are numerous methods for transferring content
in either direction using industry standard protocols, including via
ftp, sftp, ftps, http, afp, smb, webdav, amazon s3, dropbox & other
cloud services as well as many other options, no kludges necessary. it
might require downloading an app, but that's about it.

Sure, I know about all those web-based methods, which is why I snipped
that bit. They aren't the issue.

apparently, you do not know about 'those web-based methods', given that
many of them predate the web, however, some may be accessible via the
web, for example, dropbox.

if by 'web-based' you mean cloud (i.e. you're using the wrong
terminology), then only dropbox and other cloud services would fall
into that category. ftp, sftp, ftps, http, afp, smb, webdav (despite
its name) do not.

He of course means network-based.

network based isn't an obstacle whatsoever and is actually the most
convenient method (no need to fuss with cables), and given that he
doesn't understand the technology and the terms, he isn't in a position
to claim what can and cannot be done.

Being someone who can't tell
"bitmap" apart from "BMP",

i've *always* made that distinction.

it's mayayana who confuses the two.




Once again: Can I just connect an iPad to my PC with a USB cable, see
the iPad as a storage device, and transfer files, both ways, no app
required? I can do that with most devices and cameras that I've tried.
The exceptions are generally older obsolete/obsolescent products.

the ipad is not 'a storage device'. it's a mobile computer.

Which can NOT do what most other devices in it's class -
specifically Android devices - CAN do and DO do out of the box.

nonsense.

ios devices do some things android devices cannot and android devices
can do some things an ios device cannot.

no device does everything in every situation.

you are also missing the entire point, which is to move files.

nobody (but you) gives a **** whether a file is moved via usb or wifi
or some other method. what matters is getting it from one device to
another.

transferring wirelessly is *much* more convenient than dealing with usb
cables, particularly if the other computer is in the next room or on an
entirely different floor.

try connecting two windows computers via usb and see how well that
works out for you.

Well, BETTER than connecting an iOS device to a Windows computer via
USB.

nope. not better. it simply will not work.

rest of your ignorant babble snipped.

On 15 Aug 2018 11:37:09 GMT, Alan Baker wrote:

What claim of functionality has been made that you now claim is
non-existent?

I love a fact-based technical challenge since I only speak facts!

Let's start with this video, shall we?
https://youtu.be/7QaABa6DFIo

BTW, there are so many claims of imaginary functionality that I *know* you
didn't read *any* of the links you're responding to, because I already
provided much of what you ask.

But, this is Usenet, which is casual, so I can understand that you didn't
read the references I provided - and I'm perfectly happy to comply with
your request, since I only speak facts.

Facts are easily validated.
Facts are funny that way.

So, I will politely respond to you in a factual way by simply stating that
we can start with this *classic* claim by the Apple Apologists of brazenly
fabricated imaginary functionality where, paradoxically, the the Apple
Apologists *still* claim that this wholly imaginary functionality exists!
It's a fact iOS devices can't even graph Wi-Fi signal strength over time
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!to...ne/PZuec56EWB0[1-25]

Note that since I posit that *all* the never-ending threads on Apple
Apologists claims of imaginary functionality, it's important for adults to
realize that we documented that Snit made his claim of imaginary *over 400
times* in 400 separate posts - all of which were well after his claims were
debunked.

He literally cut and pasted his claim of imaginary functionality that many
times! (We counted them at the time, in fact.)

*Can you even imagine what I just said (which is a verified fact).*

Snit never once looked at the Y axis of the app he vehemently and
repeatedly claimed could do what clearly can't be done - while Lewis, Jolly
Roger, nospam, and others all chimed in similarly .... and yet ... their
claims of functionality are *all* patently false.

If you count the claims by Snit and the others, that's about 500 separate
posts (roughly) claiming a functionality that clearly does not exist.

That doesn't even count the facts presented in counter arguments that the
functionality doesn't exist, so, you can just about double those numbers
(roughly) to about 1,000 posts (roughly).

That's 1000 posts (roughly) where half prove the functionality doesn't
exist, while the other half claims that it does (and they *still* claim it
exists - nospam did so about a month ago, as I recall).

This fact is critical to realize since almost *all* the arguments on the
web of apple-versus-others are similarly infested!

The reason this *matters* greatly, is that this one imaginary claim alone
by the Apple Apologists proved that a simple fact that the Apple Apologists
don't like eventually generates (arguably) about 1,000 posts, where, in the
end, the *single original post* in that thread was 100% accurate then, as
it is now.

In summary, what appears to happen on Usenet over the decades is that a
single fact that doesn't fit into the Apple Apologists' belief system, can
generate as many as 1,000 posts, of which *every* claim by the Apple
Apologists is dead wrong.

When you're done with that canonical example, try this one next:
It's a fact current iOS devices can't report a correct cell tower ID
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/2F_24NrIU3Q/t7_jS4zyAgAJ

In article , Arlen Holder
wrote:

It's a fact current iOS devices can't report a correct cell tower ID

nonsense.

of course they can, as you've been repeatedly told and which you
repeatedly ignore.

http://www.iphoneforums.net/attachme...d-bfdf-514132f
522f6-png.37469/
http://www.iphoneforums.net/attachme...9-8719-5e9102c
7570c-png.37471/
http://www.iphoneforums.net/attachme...6-a3f6-e1fdbd3
de5ad-png.37472/

also note the date, november 2017, which shatters your usual excuse
that it's 'an old version of ios and was removed'.

nospam wrote:
In article , NY
wrote:
[...]

But you have a USB cable with you. If the Apple device had been Android
instead, you'd have had innate, out of the box connectivity.

same for ios.

you said you wanted to transfer photos.

He said no such thing!

connect the ipad via usb and
use whatever photo apps you normally use with other cameras. that can
even be set up to auto-copy when the ipad is connected.

you did say you had problems, but that's something you were doing, not
anything apple or microsoft did to prevent it.

barf!

in fact, microsoft even explains how:
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/...10-import-phot
os-and-videos-from-phone-to-pc
To transfer photos and videos from your phone to PC, connect your
phone to the PC with a USB cable. Make sure the phone is on and
unlocked, and that you're using a working cable...
...
On iPhones: Make sure your phone is unlocked, and when you see the
Trust this device notification, select Accept.

iphones and ipads will work in the same manner.

It's a start, albeit a very tiny one. Now post a solution for ALL
types of files, not just photos and videos and for Windows, not just
Windows 10 (Yes, this is a Windows 10 newsgroup. No, nobody limited the
scenario to Windows 10 only.)

With Apple it
seems (in my experience and Wolf's) you haven't.

that's a lack of experience and refusal to resolve whatever issues came
up.

barf!

Is there an app that can be
installed on either Apple, Windows laptop or both that will give USB
connectivity so part of the Apple's storage appears as an extra Windows
drive?

not as an extra windows drive, since that makes no sense and it's also
a security hole. it's also the old primitive way of doing things.

1) *Why*, dear allmighty, does it make no sense? 2) Who cares that
"it's a security hole"? Who is going to 'break in' on this USB
connection. 3) "it's also the old primitive way of doing things" means
Apple can't do it. Thanks for the confirmation.

nospam wrote:
In article , Frank Slootweg
wrote:

[Squirming deleted.]

Once again: Can I just connect an iPad to my PC with a USB cable, see
the iPad as a storage device, and transfer files, both ways, no app
required? I can do that with most devices and cameras that I've tried.
The exceptions are generally older obsolete/obsolescent products.

the ipad is not 'a storage device'. it's a mobile computer.

Which can NOT do what most other devices in it's class -
specifically Android devices - CAN do and DO do out of the box.

nonsense.

ios devices do some things android devices cannot and android devices
can do some things an ios device cannot.

no device does everything in every situation.

Translation: "iOS can indeed not do what the five (or more) of you ask
for!"

you are also missing the entire point, which is to move files.

Dream on! *I* am not missing any point. BTW, the point is NOT just to
move files, but let's not quibble about that 'detail'.

nobody (but you) gives a **** whether a file is moved via usb or wifi
or some other method. what matters is getting it from one device to
another.

Actually (at least) FIVE of us do give a ****. OTOH, YOU divert from
USB to Wi-Fi, because you can't deliver a working USB solution for the
stated scenario.

transferring wirelessly is *much* more convenient than dealing with usb
cables, particularly if the other computer is in the next room or on an
entirely different floor.

Next time try CDs, your irrelevant records are all broken.

try connecting two windows computers via usb and see how well that
works out for you.

Well, BETTER than connecting an iOS device to a Windows computer via
USB.

nope. not better. it simply will not work.

Yes, it WILL work. That you don't know how, isn't anybodies problem
but yours.

rest of your ignorant babble snipped.

The truth and facts DO hurt, don't they!?

[Rewind:/repeat:]

But you again/still FAIL to deliver the specific names/URLs of such
"necessary apps". Why? Because you can't. Prove us wrong by actually
delivering on your claim.

"Frank Slootweg" wrote in message
news
in fact, microsoft even explains how:
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/...10-import-phot
os-and-videos-from-phone-to-pc
To transfer photos and videos from your phone to PC, connect your
phone to the PC with a USB cable. Make sure the phone is on and
unlocked, and that you're using a working cable...
...
On iPhones: Make sure your phone is unlocked, and when you see the
Trust this device notification, select Accept.

iphones and ipads will work in the same manner.

Hmm. Why did I not experience this when I connected an iPad to a Windows PC
by USB? And yes, the cable worked OK to do the same process from an Android
phone.

Plugged phone in. Windows Explorer showed the iPad by its name, but with no
folders below there. The iPad was turned on and was displaying its normal
desktop of icons. There was no "trust this device" message to respond to. I
know that Android doesn't display folders below the device name if the
screen is turned off and you need to unlock it at the lock screen, but in
the case of the iPad, it *was* unlocked.


Subsequently I ran iTunes on the Windows PC and plugged in the iPad in the
hope that iTunes would recognise it as a device (eg for synchronising music
with) because I know this also displays the contents of the remote (iPad)
device. But I got a really "helpful" vague message "an error has occurred"
or something like that, which did not advance things at all.


The Windows Knowledge Base entry implies that it *will* work (subject to
needing the device unlocked) and doesn't even mention the need to change the
USB settings (or how to do so) in the case of Apple devices, and it says
something will happen (the Trust message) which doesn't. If a device doesn't
do what the instructions confidently say will happen, how do you proceed?

On 15 Aug 2018 12:48:01 GMT, nospam wrote:

nonsense.

of course they can, as you've been repeatedly told and which you
repeatedly ignore.

http://www.iphoneforums.net/attachme...d-bfdf-514132f
522f6-png.37469/
http://www.iphoneforums.net/attachme...9-8719-5e9102c
7570c-png.37471/
http://www.iphoneforums.net/attachme...6-a3f6-e1fdbd3
de5ad-png.37472/

also note the date, november 2017, which shatters your usual excuse
that it's 'an old version of ios and was removed'.

Another trait of the Apple Apologists is to claim a functionality simply by
showing a screenshot which doesn't actually show the claimed functionality.

They did it here too!
https://youtu.be/7QaABa6DFIo

They think everyone is as stupid as they need them to be to believe what we
all know already is that any app can look up (and essentially guess by
doing so) most likely cell tower IDs from a plethor of existing (some good,
some terrible) database on the net but that never was the question -
particularly because the question was always about femto towers (which I
own, and which is well known to nospam that I own them) which are not on
any public Internet look database.

Even if they were, the lookups are not the actual report of the actual
*accurate* femto cell tower id (which is what, of course, Android reports).

In article , Arlen Holder
wrote:


nonsense.

of course they can, as you've been repeatedly told and which you
repeatedly ignore.

http://www.iphoneforums.net/attachme...d-bfdf-514132f
522f6-png.37469/
http://www.iphoneforums.net/attachme...9-8719-5e9102c
7570c-png.37471/
http://www.iphoneforums.net/attachme...6-a3f6-e1fdbd3
de5ad-png.37472/

also note the date, november 2017, which shatters your usual excuse
that it's 'an old version of ios and was removed'.

Another trait of the Apple Apologists is to claim a functionality simply by
showing a screenshot which doesn't actually show the claimed functionality.

it shows the claimed functionality.

just what do you think 'physical cell id' means?
http://www.iphoneforums.net/attachme...d-bfdf-514132f
522f6-png.37469/

i'm quite sure you haven't any clue what the rest of the information
means, so i won't embarrass you further.

In article , Frank Slootweg
wrote:

Once again: Can I just connect an iPad to my PC with a USB cable, see
the iPad as a storage device, and transfer files, both ways, no app
required? I can do that with most devices and cameras that I've
tried.
The exceptions are generally older obsolete/obsolescent products.

the ipad is not 'a storage device'. it's a mobile computer.

Which can NOT do what most other devices in it's class -
specifically Android devices - CAN do and DO do out of the box.

nonsense.

ios devices do some things android devices cannot and android devices
can do some things an ios device cannot.

no device does everything in every situation.

Translation: "iOS can indeed not do what the five (or more) of you ask
for!"

not in the narrowly defined terms intentionally crafted so it can't
ever work while ignoring the numerous *other* ways to do exactly what
the user wants to do, which is *move* *files* *from* *one* *device*
*to* *another*.

you are apparently incapable of seeing anything beyond one single
method.

as i said earlier, you aren't interested in a solution. you just want
to rant.

you are also missing the entire point, which is to move files.

Dream on! *I* am not missing any point.

oh yes you are.

BTW, the point is NOT just to
move files, but let's not quibble about that 'detail'.

ok, what exactly is the point, if not to move files from one device to
another?

being able to see the file system does not accomplish that.

there are *many* ways to move content in either direction, between ios
and any other platform.

*that* is the task at hand, and *that* is the point.

how that gets done is irrelevant.

but if you want to lock yourself into only one method and refuse all
other suggestions, that's a limitation *you* are imposing upon
yourself.


nobody (but you) gives a **** whether a file is moved via usb or wifi
or some other method. what matters is getting it from one device to
another.

Actually (at least) FIVE of us do give a ****. OTOH, YOU divert from
USB to Wi-Fi, because you can't deliver a working USB solution for the
stated scenario.

i already said usb works.

i also said there are other options, including wifi, which is almost
always significantly more convenient than fussing with usb, even on a
remote island (via p2p wifi).

there is more than one solution, almost all of which are vastly more
efficient than your method, however, the user can choose whatever works
best for them.



try connecting two windows computers via usb and see how well that
works out for you.

Well, BETTER than connecting an iOS device to a Windows computer via
USB.

nope. not better. it simply will not work.

Yes, it WILL work. That you don't know how, isn't anybodies problem
but yours.

nope. it won't work. usb is master/slave, not peer to peer. a standard
usb cable won't even fit, at least not usb a/b.

usb-c might work (haven't tried), but so far, not a lot of computers
have usb-c, nor do most android phones, so that isn't a viable option,
assuming it even works.

usb on the go might work, but few, if any pcs are usb to go devices. in
other words, not an option one can rely upon.

But you again/still FAIL to deliver the specific names/URLs of such
"necessary apps". Why? Because you can't. Prove us wrong by actually
delivering on your claim.

i have, many times, but after a while, it gets old.

In article , NY
wrote:

To transfer photos and videos from your phone to PC, connect your
phone to the PC with a USB cable. Make sure the phone is on and
unlocked, and that you're using a working cable...
...
On iPhones: Make sure your phone is unlocked, and when you see the
Trust this device notification, select Accept.

iphones and ipads will work in the same manner.

Hmm. Why did I not experience this when I connected an iPad to a Windows PC
by USB?

dunno. you haven't provided sufficient information to diagnose it.

all you've done is rant how apple makes it difficult (they don't).

And yes, the cable worked OK to do the same process from an Android
phone.

no it didn't, because you would have needed to use a *different* cable.

ios devices use a lightning connector (or a dock connector for older
devices).

android devices use any of a variety of connectors, including mini-usb,
ext-usb, micro-usb, micro-usb3, usb-c or a proprietary connector,
depending on which device.

Plugged phone in. Windows Explorer showed the iPad by its name, but with no
folders below there. The iPad was turned on and was displaying its normal
desktop of icons. There was no "trust this device" message to respond to.

that could be why, however, that is normally only needed once, so it's
possible you trusted it an earlier time.

I know that Android doesn't display folders below the device name if the
screen is turned off and you need to unlock it at the lock screen, but in
the case of the iPad, it *was* unlocked.

Subsequently I ran iTunes on the Windows PC and plugged in the iPad in the
hope that iTunes would recognise it as a device (eg for synchronising music
with) because I know this also displays the contents of the remote (iPad)
device. But I got a really "helpful" vague message "an error has occurred"
or something like that, which did not advance things at all.

did it list an error code? can you duplicate it and take a screen shot
(or detail exactly what it said)?

also, which ipad & what version of ios, and what version of windows and
itunes?

another possibility is you need to update one or more components. my
guess is that's probably it, but that's a guess at this point.

The Windows Knowledge Base entry implies that it *will* work (subject to
needing the device unlocked)

yep.

and doesn't even mention the need to change the
USB settings (or how to do so) in the case of Apple devices,

what usb settings?

and it says
something will happen (the Trust message) which doesn't. If a device doesn't
do what the instructions confidently say will happen, how do you proceed?

it should work, but it's difficult to diagnose remotely without more
information.

In article , Frank Slootweg
wrote:

In article , NY
wrote:
But you have a USB cable with you. If the Apple device had been Android
instead, you'd have had innate, out of the box connectivity.

same for ios.

you said you wanted to transfer photos.

He said no such thing!

actually, he did.

In article , NY
wrote:
When I plugged my wife's iPad into my Windows laptop, only a few folders
were visible (I forget which) and DCIM was not among them. When I tried to
access the iPad from iTunes on the laptop, it gave a non-specific error of
the form "An error has occurred" (nice and useful!) and did not see the iPad
as a device that iTunes could communicate with.

and again today:
In article , NY
wrote:
Hmm. Why did I not experience this when I connected an iPad to a Windows PC
by USB? And yes, the cable worked OK to do the same process from an Android
phone.







Is there an app that can be
installed on either Apple, Windows laptop or both that will give USB
connectivity so part of the Apple's storage appears as an extra Windows
drive?

not as an extra windows drive, since that makes no sense and it's also
a security hole. it's also the old primitive way of doing things.

1) *Why*, dear allmighty, does it make no sense?

because direct file system access primitive and obsolete. it's a relic
from the past when computers were less capable and the number of files
was much, much less.

these days, users have many, many thousands of photos, videos, songs,
documents and much more. few people, if any, can keep track of
everything, let alone organize it in useful ways.

it's grunt work that computers can do far better than humans can,
allowing users to concentrate on getting stuff done, not dealing with
moving files around.

computers are there to do work *for* you, not the other way around.

2) Who cares that
"it's a security hole"?

those who don't want their devices to be pwned.

unfortunately, we live in a world where bad guys take full advantage of
any security hole they can find.

Who is going to 'break in' on this USB
connection.

anyone who is able to connect the device to a computer via usb.

someone could connect a lost or stolen phone to their computer and
potentially copy off all of its data. that would be bad.

that does mean legitimate users may need to authenticate for access,
but as i said, we live in a world where that's an unfortunate
necessity.

3) "it's also the old primitive way of doing things" means
Apple can't do it. Thanks for the confirmation.

nope. it means apple is moving beyond the old ways of doing things.

it also means you want to remain stuck in the past.

In article , Wolf K
wrote:

apparently, you do not know about 'those web-based methods', given that
many of them predate the web, however, some may be accessible via the
web, for example, dropbox.

True, they do, but it's all "the web" now, so read for context and
intension (that's not a typo).

no, it's not all 'the web' now, and i do know what you meant. you're
still wrong.

i'll spell it out for you:
files can be transferred *directly* *between* *devices*, peer to peer,
without using what you're calling 'the web', using any of a number of
protocols, with or without cables.

the options are numerous, however, there are those who refuse to see
any of them. very strange.

PS: I should've put in an "etc", I apologise bigly.

that would not have helped in the way you think it would.

In article , Wolf K
wrote:

i've even explained it to *you* a while back, regarding smb apps. or
have you somehow forgotten that?

1) This isn't about me, but - as I stated in the part you SNIPPED -
about Bob-S and Wolf K, 2) This isn't about SMB. 3) Me being interested
in SMB on iOS, unlikely, so PROVE me wrong.

it's about transferring files, and smb is one such method among many
others, which i listed already.

This subthread is about transferring files via USB cables. Always has been.

nope. it's about moving files from one device to another. always has
been because that's the *only* thing that matters.

files are not going to be 'better' if they're sent over usb than wifi.
at the end of the day, they're the same files.

and as has been repeatedly said, there is no issue with using usb if
that's what the user wants to do.

as has also been said, there are numerous *other* options, ones that in
nearly every case, are more efficient and far less hassle than fussing
with cables and mucking directly with the file system.

why do people insist on doing things the hard way when far easier and
far more reliable methods are available? very strange.

and that doesn't even touch on the issues of keeping everything in sync
across all devices.

In message Wolf K wrote:
On 2018-08-13 22:50, nospam wrote:
In article , Bob_S wrote:

I needed a new tablet this past week so I bought the new 9.7 iPad with 128GB
storage. Gorgeous screen and it's fast. Great tablet - but I live in a
Windows world and after finding out the limitations and kludges I would have
to use to transfer files/folders between the systems, I gave up. Not worth
the effort.

it's very easy to move content to/from an ipad, regardless of operating
system.

Typical utterly useless "You're wrong" post.

The idiot troll is always wrong.

It's time you gave real world examples so that the poor sods who lack
your brilliance and knowledge can learn how to dfo it themselves.

Been done, dozens of times. There are threads with hundreds of posts
detailing how to do something extrmely simple where itio troll continues
to claim it's impossible.

I transfer files between my computers an iPads with no issue at all, and
have been doing it for many years.

1. Connect device and drag files in via iTunes
2. User a service like Dropbox, Google Drive., of iCloud Drive
3. Use AirDrop from another iOS device or a Mac
4. Email
5. Messages
6. other messaging services that work on iOS and support files (Dunno
which, I don't use other message programes, but I expect they exist).
7. Use a Synology with DS File
8. Backblaze
9. FTP server
10. HTTP server

And I bet I am forgetting many.

--
History had wanted surgery. Sometimes Dr Chopper is the only surgeon to
hand. There's something final about an axe.