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"Shenan Stanley" wrote in message
...

"You'll never learn any younger than you are right now." and "When I can
no longer learn, I am dead." are two things someone told me long ago and I
find to be sage advice that keeps me sane.


Thanks for reminding me of what I forgot.

Know that your memory experience may or may not apply to me or anybody else.
I learn every day. I've done memory exercises every day for years, but as
Dirty Harry said, "A man's gotta know his limitations." I would add to
that, "A man's gotta know his strengths." My memory was taken abruptly 23
years ago and I've had plenty of time to know my limitations and my
stengths.

Your insistence that I must be able to do what you do is still calling me
lazy. I am not and saying so is not out of order.

--
For most of us the most danger is most politicians.

JimL

"Shenan Stanley" wrote in message
...

"You'll never learn any younger than you are right now." and "When I can
no longer learn, I am dead." are two things someone told me long ago and I
find to be sage advice that keeps me sane.


Thanks for reminding me of what I forgot.

Know that your memory experience may or may not apply to me or anybody else.
I learn every day. I've done memory exercises every day for years, but as
Dirty Harry said, "A man's gotta know his limitations." I would add to
that, "A man's gotta know his strengths." My memory was taken abruptly 23
years ago and I've had plenty of time to know my limitations and my
stengths.

Your insistence that I must be able to do what you do is still calling me
lazy. I am not and saying so is not out of order.

--
For most of us the most danger is most politicians.

JimL

In ,
Olórin typed:
"JimL" wrote in message
...
"Shenan Stanley" wrote in message
...
JimL wrote:

Essentially - if you don't want people to assume - don't leave the
opening.

You are free to assume that I've spent at least an hour and maybe
several trying to find an answer before I ask people who already
know and have probably known for years but don't want to tell.

You are also free to assume that I'm very bad at guessing how to
Google something I know nothing about. Some people seem to have the
knack. And you may assume that "go to Google and figure it out for
yourself" is actually beyond some people for reasons brilliant
people with normal to excellent memories and normal to excelllent
inate multitasking abilities seem never, ever to comprehend. (Some
people just can't put together or remember page after page of
written technicallities. But smart people aren't smart enough to
figure that out.) And that rather than comprehend not being a
genius they would rather chew on a questioner every time they ask a
question that doesn't suit them. Frankly, I don't understand why so many
people who know things and
who populate information disemmination media would apparently rather
be boiled in oil than make it easy for someone who is struggling. In
essence they say, "If you aren't as smart as me you're lazy," one
of the most arrogant (and prevalent) mindsets on the internet. If
they don't like explaining things nobody is forcing them to come
here and complain about explaining things.

Since I lost so much of my abilities so suddenly I've learned a lot
about the geniuses who were smarter than me to start with.

--
For most of us the most danger is most politicians.

JimL



You asked a question and didn't bother stating up front what you'd
already looked for and tried. Shenan stepped in with nothing but
courteous and spot-on answers, going beyond that and also helping you
"how to fish" (better). Why the rant? And in all that, you haven't
even had the courtesy yourself to thank him as far as I can see. It's
beyond me.

Nice snippage there (NOT)! You and a few others here need to stop being so
condescending and grow some interpersonal skills and be more accepting of
those who are as yet inexperienced on the newsgroups. It's not that hard to
ask a few questions about their situations and explain very briefly why
you're asking them. It's not helping anyone when you take on the tone of a
parent talking to a kid they consider stupid.

There is always time to be polite and agreeable, especially to the
inexperienced.

Twayne`

--
--
Live in the moment;
be open to the possibilities
that life has to offer.

In ,
Olórin typed:
"JimL" wrote in message
...
"Shenan Stanley" wrote in message
...
JimL wrote:

Essentially - if you don't want people to assume - don't leave the
opening.

You are free to assume that I've spent at least an hour and maybe
several trying to find an answer before I ask people who already
know and have probably known for years but don't want to tell.

You are also free to assume that I'm very bad at guessing how to
Google something I know nothing about. Some people seem to have the
knack. And you may assume that "go to Google and figure it out for
yourself" is actually beyond some people for reasons brilliant
people with normal to excellent memories and normal to excelllent
inate multitasking abilities seem never, ever to comprehend. (Some
people just can't put together or remember page after page of
written technicallities. But smart people aren't smart enough to
figure that out.) And that rather than comprehend not being a
genius they would rather chew on a questioner every time they ask a
question that doesn't suit them. Frankly, I don't understand why so many
people who know things and
who populate information disemmination media would apparently rather
be boiled in oil than make it easy for someone who is struggling. In
essence they say, "If you aren't as smart as me you're lazy," one
of the most arrogant (and prevalent) mindsets on the internet. If
they don't like explaining things nobody is forcing them to come
here and complain about explaining things.

Since I lost so much of my abilities so suddenly I've learned a lot
about the geniuses who were smarter than me to start with.

--
For most of us the most danger is most politicians.

JimL



You asked a question and didn't bother stating up front what you'd
already looked for and tried. Shenan stepped in with nothing but
courteous and spot-on answers, going beyond that and also helping you
"how to fish" (better). Why the rant? And in all that, you haven't
even had the courtesy yourself to thank him as far as I can see. It's
beyond me.

Nice snippage there (NOT)! You and a few others here need to stop being so
condescending and grow some interpersonal skills and be more accepting of
those who are as yet inexperienced on the newsgroups. It's not that hard to
ask a few questions about their situations and explain very briefly why
you're asking them. It's not helping anyone when you take on the tone of a
parent talking to a kid they consider stupid.

There is always time to be polite and agreeable, especially to the
inexperienced.

Twayne`

--
--
Live in the moment;
be open to the possibilities
that life has to offer.

In ,
JimL typed:
"Shenan Stanley" wrote in message
...

"You'll never learn any younger than you are right now." and "When I
can no longer learn, I am dead." are two things someone told me long
ago and I find to be sage advice that keeps me sane.


Thanks for reminding me of what I forgot.

Know that your memory experience may or may not apply to me or
anybody else. I learn every day. I've done memory exercises every
day for years, but as Dirty Harry said, "A man's gotta know his
limitations." I would add to that, "A man's gotta know his
strengths." My memory was taken abruptly 23 years ago and I've had
plenty of time to know my limitations and my stengths.

Your insistence that I must be able to do what you do is still
calling me lazy. I am not and saying so is not out of order.

Good call, Jim. In my case it was ten years ago last April 15 and I guess
I've recovered about as far as I'm going to. I managed to get past being
learning-disabled but the memory retrieval issues are permanent, it seems.
What I knew I still knew, but new things came really hard for quite awhile
those first 5 years. The computer was instrumental in my retraining.

Some of these guys just have big egoes and fit the mold for egotist very
well. Actually I tend to excuse them unless they start using words that
would make the originator feel stupid or were put-downs as so many do.
There's at least one other here who once said he was so busy keeping up with
answering queries that he had no time to be polite or wordy in any way.
Well, no one is forcing anyone to answer any questions here and if they have
to be that way, perhaps they're burned out and need to go on holiday or cut
it down to just a few responses a day.
Personally, IFF their post contains a useful response, egoes aside, I'm
pretty much satisfied, too. After all, that's what we're all here for. But
when, as is going on right now, their "need" is simply to increase their
number of responses so their MVP status will be renewed or whatever other
reason there might be, and there isn't even a hint of a response and no
interpersonal skills of any kind, I usually write them off.
Further, everyone has a bad day now and then; the "walk a mile ... "
thing. With your problems you should easily understand that, as I do.
Often, people having a bad day shouldn't be bothering to post yet but human
nature doesn't always point that out to a person and they go ahead and do it
anyway. You often never know what's behind a person's attitude that makes
them seem the way they are.

I applaud you for your stand and agree with you. Shenan isn't one of the
worst by far and often does provide informative responses. He/she does
often seem to have that "rush" syndrome though, and a diregard for
interpersonal skills at times when it's needed but I still read his posts
when the subject interests me.

And finally IMO you have people like me: I say what I mean and mean what I
say, but it very seldom includes Shenan but some others here. Women don't
ask me is a piece of clothing makes their butt look big because they're
going to get an honest answerg. But I don't volunteer a response if they
haven't asked for it. Tact is always necessary for good relationships.

In the end, what it all means is, put on a thicker skin on the usenet groups
because they're not moderated and pretty much, anyone can say anything they
want to. I'd tend to answer the questions that were asked, just in case it
got me anything useful, but not converse much after that unless some useful
information was coming forth. That's because I know from experience that
Shenan is a prolific responder and obviously knows about the issue, most of
the time.
It's easy enough to cover off the condescension, if you feel you must, with
a short comment or two about how wrong the assumptions were. But that can
cause other people to jump in and suddenly you've started a flame war.
There are some who will pose purposely vague questions for the specific
purpose of initiating flame wars; I call them trolls.

Although poorly phrased, I think Shenan's questions were good ones and
some were questions I'd have asked myself. It's handy to know what you've
already done so time doesn't get wasted to post a suggestion and get back
and "I already did that" series of mails. The OS and version numbers of
course are always important to know. And so on.

Regards,

Twayne





--
--
Live in the moment;
be open to the possibilities
that life has to offer.

In ,
JimL typed:
"Shenan Stanley" wrote in message
...

"You'll never learn any younger than you are right now." and "When I
can no longer learn, I am dead." are two things someone told me long
ago and I find to be sage advice that keeps me sane.


Thanks for reminding me of what I forgot.

Know that your memory experience may or may not apply to me or
anybody else. I learn every day. I've done memory exercises every
day for years, but as Dirty Harry said, "A man's gotta know his
limitations." I would add to that, "A man's gotta know his
strengths." My memory was taken abruptly 23 years ago and I've had
plenty of time to know my limitations and my stengths.

Your insistence that I must be able to do what you do is still
calling me lazy. I am not and saying so is not out of order.

Good call, Jim. In my case it was ten years ago last April 15 and I guess
I've recovered about as far as I'm going to. I managed to get past being
learning-disabled but the memory retrieval issues are permanent, it seems.
What I knew I still knew, but new things came really hard for quite awhile
those first 5 years. The computer was instrumental in my retraining.

Some of these guys just have big egoes and fit the mold for egotist very
well. Actually I tend to excuse them unless they start using words that
would make the originator feel stupid or were put-downs as so many do.
There's at least one other here who once said he was so busy keeping up with
answering queries that he had no time to be polite or wordy in any way.
Well, no one is forcing anyone to answer any questions here and if they have
to be that way, perhaps they're burned out and need to go on holiday or cut
it down to just a few responses a day.
Personally, IFF their post contains a useful response, egoes aside, I'm
pretty much satisfied, too. After all, that's what we're all here for. But
when, as is going on right now, their "need" is simply to increase their
number of responses so their MVP status will be renewed or whatever other
reason there might be, and there isn't even a hint of a response and no
interpersonal skills of any kind, I usually write them off.
Further, everyone has a bad day now and then; the "walk a mile ... "
thing. With your problems you should easily understand that, as I do.
Often, people having a bad day shouldn't be bothering to post yet but human
nature doesn't always point that out to a person and they go ahead and do it
anyway. You often never know what's behind a person's attitude that makes
them seem the way they are.

I applaud you for your stand and agree with you. Shenan isn't one of the
worst by far and often does provide informative responses. He/she does
often seem to have that "rush" syndrome though, and a diregard for
interpersonal skills at times when it's needed but I still read his posts
when the subject interests me.

And finally IMO you have people like me: I say what I mean and mean what I
say, but it very seldom includes Shenan but some others here. Women don't
ask me is a piece of clothing makes their butt look big because they're
going to get an honest answerg. But I don't volunteer a response if they
haven't asked for it. Tact is always necessary for good relationships.

In the end, what it all means is, put on a thicker skin on the usenet groups
because they're not moderated and pretty much, anyone can say anything they
want to. I'd tend to answer the questions that were asked, just in case it
got me anything useful, but not converse much after that unless some useful
information was coming forth. That's because I know from experience that
Shenan is a prolific responder and obviously knows about the issue, most of
the time.
It's easy enough to cover off the condescension, if you feel you must, with
a short comment or two about how wrong the assumptions were. But that can
cause other people to jump in and suddenly you've started a flame war.
There are some who will pose purposely vague questions for the specific
purpose of initiating flame wars; I call them trolls.

Although poorly phrased, I think Shenan's questions were good ones and
some were questions I'd have asked myself. It's handy to know what you've
already done so time doesn't get wasted to post a suggestion and get back
and "I already did that" series of mails. The OS and version numbers of
course are always important to know. And so on.

Regards,

Twayne





--
--
Live in the moment;
be open to the possibilities
that life has to offer.

snip

JimL wrote:
Your insistence that I must be able to do what you do is still
calling me lazy. I am not and saying so is not out of order.

Incorrect - I did not assume laziness.

I gave you a method to improve your skills, one that could be referred to at
any point of time, linked to so memory was not necessary. It was not a 'use
google' response - it was a 'perhaps in the future you can use google and
utilize the tips and tricks here' response.

I would say my insistence that you could learn should be a compliment - not
any sort of disrespect.

I guess it's a glass half empty/glass half full thing. ;-)

So be it.
/end

--
Shenan Stanley
MS-MVP
--
How To Ask Questions The Smart Way
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

snip

JimL wrote:
Your insistence that I must be able to do what you do is still
calling me lazy. I am not and saying so is not out of order.

Incorrect - I did not assume laziness.

I gave you a method to improve your skills, one that could be referred to at
any point of time, linked to so memory was not necessary. It was not a 'use
google' response - it was a 'perhaps in the future you can use google and
utilize the tips and tricks here' response.

I would say my insistence that you could learn should be a compliment - not
any sort of disrespect.

I guess it's a glass half empty/glass half full thing. ;-)

So be it.
/end

--
Shenan Stanley
MS-MVP
--
How To Ask Questions The Smart Way
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

Shenan Stanley wrote:

snip

I find your replies to be informative and helpful. I've learned a lot
from you about my operating system and related problems I've had with it.

Thank you!

--
JD..

Shenan Stanley wrote:

snip

I find your replies to be informative and helpful. I've learned a lot
from you about my operating system and related problems I've had with it.

Thank you!

--
JD..

JD wrote:
Shenan Stanley wrote:
snip

I find your replies to be informative and helpful. I've learned a
lot from you about my operating system and related problems I've
had with it.
Thank you!

*grin*

You are welcome/Thank you!

I know I can be long-winded at times (some would say all the time) and
perhaps it is because of that some people believe (mistakenly) I am speaking
down to them. Perhaps I offer too much in the way of 'assistance' - some of
which they may not have asked for - in the form of, "By the way - this is
how I have come by the information I am giving you. Perhaps you too can
come by such information in the future in this way or a similar way..."
expanded answers. Some take it as I am telling them, "See how easy this
was?" - I suppose.

I am not. I am just offering my experience and knowledge to anyone and
everyone. In fact - I try to garner my responses to everyone. Many of them
*do* get repeated over and over and while I could have a web page I just
link to - I would rather repeat them over and over in hopes they get
replicated over and over in hopes they get crawled/noted by search engines,
reviewed by peers, corrected by people wiser than myself and help people
other than just the original person/people I was responding to. I try to
word things in ways I have seen others understand in the past, change things
as I go along due to suggestions I have gotten or specific questions to my
responses - so I learn how to better my response and form it to be
accessible to a broader audience.

But yes, in any case... long-winded. ;-)

*shrug*

--
Shenan Stanley
MS-MVP
--
How To Ask Questions The Smart Way
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

JD wrote:
Shenan Stanley wrote:
snip

I find your replies to be informative and helpful. I've learned a
lot from you about my operating system and related problems I've
had with it.
Thank you!

*grin*

You are welcome/Thank you!

I know I can be long-winded at times (some would say all the time) and
perhaps it is because of that some people believe (mistakenly) I am speaking
down to them. Perhaps I offer too much in the way of 'assistance' - some of
which they may not have asked for - in the form of, "By the way - this is
how I have come by the information I am giving you. Perhaps you too can
come by such information in the future in this way or a similar way..."
expanded answers. Some take it as I am telling them, "See how easy this
was?" - I suppose.

I am not. I am just offering my experience and knowledge to anyone and
everyone. In fact - I try to garner my responses to everyone. Many of them
*do* get repeated over and over and while I could have a web page I just
link to - I would rather repeat them over and over in hopes they get
replicated over and over in hopes they get crawled/noted by search engines,
reviewed by peers, corrected by people wiser than myself and help people
other than just the original person/people I was responding to. I try to
word things in ways I have seen others understand in the past, change things
as I go along due to suggestions I have gotten or specific questions to my
responses - so I learn how to better my response and form it to be
accessible to a broader audience.

But yes, in any case... long-winded. ;-)

*shrug*

--
Shenan Stanley
MS-MVP
--
How To Ask Questions The Smart Way
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

Shenan Stanley wrote:
JD wrote:
Shenan Stanley wrote:
snip

I find your replies to be informative and helpful. I've learned a
lot from you about my operating system and related problems I've
had with it.
Thank you!

*grin*

You are welcome/Thank you!

I know I can be long-winded at times (some would say all the time) and
perhaps it is because of that some people believe (mistakenly) I am speaking
down to them. Perhaps I offer too much in the way of 'assistance' - some of
which they may not have asked for - in the form of, "By the way - this is
how I have come by the information I am giving you. Perhaps you too can
come by such information in the future in this way or a similar way..."
expanded answers. Some take it as I am telling them, "See how easy this
was?" - I suppose.

I am not. I am just offering my experience and knowledge to anyone and
everyone. In fact - I try to garner my responses to everyone. Many of them
*do* get repeated over and over and while I could have a web page I just
link to - I would rather repeat them over and over in hopes they get
replicated over and over in hopes they get crawled/noted by search engines,
reviewed by peers, corrected by people wiser than myself and help people
other than just the original person/people I was responding to. I try to
word things in ways I have seen others understand in the past, change things
as I go along due to suggestions I have gotten or specific questions to my
responses - so I learn how to better my response and form it to be
accessible to a broader audience.

But yes, in any case... long-winded. ;-)

*shrug*


I already understood. And yeah, you're maybe a little long winded. ;-)

The beauty of a newsgroup is nobody has to ask questions and nobody has
to read replies. We're all here for a reason and you don't have to
qualify yourself, your replies do that for you!

--
JD..

Shenan Stanley wrote:
JD wrote:
Shenan Stanley wrote:
snip

I find your replies to be informative and helpful. I've learned a
lot from you about my operating system and related problems I've
had with it.
Thank you!

*grin*

You are welcome/Thank you!

I know I can be long-winded at times (some would say all the time) and
perhaps it is because of that some people believe (mistakenly) I am speaking
down to them. Perhaps I offer too much in the way of 'assistance' - some of
which they may not have asked for - in the form of, "By the way - this is
how I have come by the information I am giving you. Perhaps you too can
come by such information in the future in this way or a similar way..."
expanded answers. Some take it as I am telling them, "See how easy this
was?" - I suppose.

I am not. I am just offering my experience and knowledge to anyone and
everyone. In fact - I try to garner my responses to everyone. Many of them
*do* get repeated over and over and while I could have a web page I just
link to - I would rather repeat them over and over in hopes they get
replicated over and over in hopes they get crawled/noted by search engines,
reviewed by peers, corrected by people wiser than myself and help people
other than just the original person/people I was responding to. I try to
word things in ways I have seen others understand in the past, change things
as I go along due to suggestions I have gotten or specific questions to my
responses - so I learn how to better my response and form it to be
accessible to a broader audience.

But yes, in any case... long-winded. ;-)

*shrug*


I already understood. And yeah, you're maybe a little long winded. ;-)

The beauty of a newsgroup is nobody has to ask questions and nobody has
to read replies. We're all here for a reason and you don't have to
qualify yourself, your replies do that for you!

--
JD..

"Twayne" wrote in message
...
In ,
Olórin typed:

snip - happy?

You asked a question and didn't bother stating up front what you'd
already looked for and tried. Shenan stepped in with nothing but
courteous and spot-on answers, going beyond that and also helping you
"how to fish" (better). Why the rant? And in all that, you haven't
even had the courtesy yourself to thank him as far as I can see. It's
beyond me.

Nice snippage there (NOT)! You and a few others here need to stop being
so condescending and grow some interpersonal skills and be more accepting
of those who are as yet inexperienced on the newsgroups. It's not that
hard to ask a few questions about their situations and explain very
briefly why you're asking them. It's not helping anyone when you take on
the tone of a parent talking to a kid they consider stupid.

There is always time to be polite and agreeable, especially to the
inexperienced.

Twayne`

--
--
Live in the moment;
be open to the possibilities
that life has to offer.

Not that I need to defend myself to you, but in the face of such
offensiveness (in both senses of the word):

- I left in the "rant" as it was germane to my comments. I note that *you*
didn't bother snipping it, though, for some reason...

- I don't believe I was condescending, lacking in interpersonal skills,
impolite or disagreeable. You, of course, can believe what you like, but I'm
free to ignore your unsolicited comments - which would perhaps be easier to
view with a straight face coming from someone who didn't use such a childish
device as "Nice snippage there (NOT!)". I've found you to be far ruder, with
less reason and more often in these groups than I ever have been. I hope I
never have the memory problems referred to in this thread, and can only
sympathise. But I similarly hope I never sink to the levels of rudeness and
name-calling I've seen from you.

- "More accepting of the inexperienced"? - I didn't reject the OP and
wasn't commenting on his technical ability at all. I was expressing
bafflement at his attitude and calling him out of line for his (ongoing)
ingratitude.

When asking "How do I do A?" to add, "I've already tried X, Y and Z," isn't
a matter of being a genius, it's more like plain common sense. To take
umbrage when it's then assumed that none of X nor Y nor Z has been tried and
to think you're being called lazy is over-sensitivity.