MS Word 2010

In article , philo
wrote:



"nospam" has been blocked for years

He seems fairly knowledgeable. Is there any reason you've blocked him?

On one of the other groups his answers are wrong 98% of the time

baseless attack. if you've blocked me, then you would have no way to
know how often i'm right or wrong.

On 1/16/19 11:27 AM, silverslimer wrote:
On Wed, 16 Jan 2019 09:12:59 -0600, philo wrote:

On 1/16/19 7:28 AM, CRNG wrote:
On Tue, 15 Jan 2019 09:01:02 -0600, philo wrote in


If she tries to cut and paste several pages of text she is getting an
"out of memory" error.

Check out https://www.freeoffice.com/en/ made and supported by a very
reliable German company. It's MSO compatible. I used it for a year and
then bought the pay version and have been using it for several years.



I personally use Linux and Libre Office but my wife is not going to use
anything other than MS Word

thank you though

My wife's the same way. It's Microsoft Office or nothing. Of course,
LibreOffice can't do as good of a job with spreadsheets as Microsoft
Office can and that has been demonstrated numerous times in
comp.os.linux.advocacy. Writer is good enough in my opinion, but even
it can't do something as basic as rotate images added into a document.
It seems like it's one of the first things they should have been able
to implement in LO.


Though neither of use has use for spreadsheets...

she has used MS Word since 1995 and is not going to change from MS now.

I have now uninstalled the 32 bit version and she is now running the 64
bit version.

On Wed, 16 Jan 2019 15:52:55 -0500, silverslimer
wrote:

On Wed, 16 Jan 2019 12:30:27 -0700, Ken Blake
wrote:

On Wed, 16 Jan 2019 10:36:34 -0800, croy
wrote:

I'm using Word 2000, so this may not apply, but I started with Word for DOS. But with Word for
Windows, it's always been the case that when working on a long, complex document, frequent
saves are a must to prevent Word crashes. If I'm doing something truly esoteric, I save after
each successful step! alt f s is your friend!



Word 2000, Word for DOS, or any other version of Word, you should
always do frequent saves. And that's true whether it's a long complex
document or not.

Saves do not prevent Word crashes. What they prevent is your being
hurt by a problem of almost any type: Word crashes, Windows crashes,
hardware failures, power failures, user errors, malware attacks, etc.

And the same is true for any other word processor, not just Word. Even
if it's not a word processor, but some other type of program, if you
put work into a file, you should frequently save what you've done.

To be fair, Word saves automatically by default every five minutes.



That may depend on what version you use; I'm not sure.

But yes, other word processors do too, such as WordPerfect, the word
processor I use and greatly prefer to Word. And the length of time
between saving may be adjustable.

But my point remains, regardless of what program you use, even it's
not a word processor you should be sure you get frequent saves,
whether they are automatic or you have to do them manually.

On Wed, 16 Jan 2019 16:27:33 -0600, philo wrote:

On 1/16/19 11:33 AM, silverslimer wrote:
On Wed, 16 Jan 2019 09:56:15 -0600, philo wrote:

On 1/16/19 9:48 AM, silverslimer wrote:
On Wed, 16 Jan 2019 09:11:48 -0600, philo wrote:

On 1/15/19 7:28 PM, silverslimer wrote:
On Tue, 15 Jan 2019 18:13:40 -0600, philo wrote:

On 1/15/19 4:51 PM, silverslimer wrote:
On Tue, 15 Jan 2019 09:01:02 -0600, philo wrote:

On 1/14/19 5:28 PM, silverslimer wrote:
On Mon, 14 Jan 2019 10:11:29 -0600, philo wrote:

Have not found a group for Word 2010

My wife is using MS Word 2010 on her Win10 machine with 16 gig of RAM


If she tries to cut and paste several pages of text she is getting an
"out of memory" error.

If I check the app while running it is using under 100 megs of memory.

All MS help answers are absurdly irrelevant to so solving this.

She is simply limiting how much she will cut and paste at a time but
this really seems ridiculous...as she is only trying to cut and paste
perhaps three or four pages .

Is what she's cutting and pasting from a web site? If so, it's
possible that there is a lot of hidden content within the text
included to ensure that nobody copies the content without
authorization.

That's why I set up my software of choice, LibreOffice, to paste as
plaintext no matter what the content is.




To give more info, she is not cutting and pasting from a website, the
document is about 200k in size and text only.

Though by taking a second between a cut and a paste has mostly solved
the problem , it is not completely solved.

She has it set to autosave every three minutes and and crash has been
saved to a .doc only readable from Google documents.

She has lost no work but it is a minor annoyance for her.

And the plug-in was not responsible for the crash? I was actually
hoping that it was due to an external factor.




The machine has 16 gigs of RAM and has never once crashed until she
added the plug-in.


That said, her workday is sometimes 12 hours long.

What she did today was save all... close down, then re-open every 2 or 3
hours.

No problems today since she has done that.

My guess is just too much stuff in the cache.

That wouldn't surprise me. Considering how slow Windows gets when a
user doesn't regularly clean the system disk with the Disk Cleanup
option, there's a strong possibility that you are correct.




One last thing :

MS Word is the 32 bit version.

The 64 bit version of MS Word might be a better choice but she seems to
be doing ok now

Microsoft deploys the 32-bit version by default even when you're on
their download page looking for the 64-bit one. I'm not sure why they
do that but they made it fairly difficult for me to get the 64-bit
version of Office 2013 when I wanted it. I imagine that the only
difference between the two, either way, is that the 64-bit can access
more than 4GB of memory but I'm likely wrong and looking forward to
nospam's rebuttal.




Guess I will uninstall the 32 bit version and install the 64 bit


"nospam" has been blocked for years

He seems fairly knowledgeable. Is there any reason you've blocked him?




On one of the other groups his answers are wrong 98% of the time

Well, nobody's perfect.

On 1/14/19 5:34 PM, Machiel de Wit wrote:
philo schreef op 14-01-2019
in :
On 1/14/19 10:11 AM, philo wrote:
Have not found a group for Word 2010

My wife is using MS Word 2010 on her Win10 machine with 16 gig of RAM

If she tries to cut and paste several pages of text she is getting an
"out of memory" error.

If I check the app while running it is using under 100 megs of memory.

All MS help answers are absurdly irrelevant to so solving this.

She is simply limiting how much she will cut and paste at a time but
this really seems ridiculous...as she is only trying to cut and paste
perhaps three or four pages .

She is an extremely fast worker and I saw her cutting and pasting in a
fraction of a second.

Once she slowed down just a tad it looks all OK now.

Exchange your disk for a SSD.




A good idea but the problem seems to be that I had originally installed
the 32 bit version of Word.


Also: though it's true that she never had the problem prior to
installing the plug-in...it's also true that she has never done this
extensive amount of editing before.

I was probably wrong the have blamed the plug-in.

On Wed, 16 Jan 2019 16:19:58 -0700, Ken Blake
wrote:

On Wed, 16 Jan 2019 15:52:55 -0500, silverslimer
wrote:

On Wed, 16 Jan 2019 12:30:27 -0700, Ken Blake
wrote:

On Wed, 16 Jan 2019 10:36:34 -0800, croy
wrote:

I'm using Word 2000, so this may not apply, but I started with Word for DOS. But with Word for
Windows, it's always been the case that when working on a long, complex document, frequent
saves are a must to prevent Word crashes. If I'm doing something truly esoteric, I save after
each successful step! alt f s is your friend!



Word 2000, Word for DOS, or any other version of Word, you should
always do frequent saves. And that's true whether it's a long complex
document or not.

Saves do not prevent Word crashes. What they prevent is your being
hurt by a problem of almost any type: Word crashes, Windows crashes,
hardware failures, power failures, user errors, malware attacks, etc.

And the same is true for any other word processor, not just Word. Even
if it's not a word processor, but some other type of program, if you
put work into a file, you should frequently save what you've done.

To be fair, Word saves automatically by default every five minutes.



That may depend on what version you use; I'm not sure.

But yes, other word processors do too, such as WordPerfect, the word
processor I use and greatly prefer to Word. And the length of time
between saving may be adjustable.

But my point remains, regardless of what program you use, even it's
not a word processor you should be sure you get frequent saves,
whether they are automatic or you have to do them manually.

I have to admit that I'm a fan of WordPerfect as well. I got the X6
version from some OEM CD on eBay a few years back and found the word
processor's interface to be ugly as sin but the actual software to be
a lot more complete than Word. The only issue I had was the fact that
it took ages to load.

"philo" wrote in message ...

On 1/14/19 5:34 PM, Machiel de Wit wrote:
philo schreef op 14-01-2019
in :
On 1/14/19 10:11 AM, philo wrote:
Have not found a group for Word 2010

My wife is using MS Word 2010 on her Win10 machine with 16 gig of RAM

If she tries to cut and paste several pages of text she is getting an
"out of memory" error.

If I check the app while running it is using under 100 megs of memory.

All MS help answers are absurdly irrelevant to so solving this.

She is simply limiting how much she will cut and paste at a time but
this really seems ridiculous...as she is only trying to cut and paste
perhaps three or four pages .

She is an extremely fast worker and I saw her cutting and pasting in a
fraction of a second.

Once she slowed down just a tad it looks all OK now.

Exchange your disk for a SSD.




A good idea but the problem seems to be that I had originally installed
the 32 bit version of Word.
snip.


Back then MS advised everyone not to install the 64bit version.

https://www.urtech.ca/2018/09/solved...w-recommended/

--
Bob S.

On 16/01/2019 15:48, silverslimer wrote:
Microsoft deploys the 32-bit version by default even when you're on
their download page looking for the 64-bit one.

Wrong again.

Microsoft will give you both versions in one big fat file. It will
install either 32 bit or 64 bit depending on whether you had previous
version already installed that was 32 bit or 64 bit. You can't install
64 bit version if your previous version was 32 bit version and you
decide to keep it to run as "multi-version" Office product. Some people
have installed all the previous versions because they say they paid for
it so they keep it!! Some previous versions didn't have 64 bit versions
notably 2003 and 2007 so they are stuck with the 32 bit versions of
Office 365 or office 2016/2019.

Office 2019 is 3.4GB file and it has both versions in it.

https://officecdn.microsoft.com/db/492350F6-3A01-4F97-B9C0-C7C6DDF67D60/media/en-US/ProPlus2019Retail.img

This link is time limited. After 48 hours it stops working as far as I
know.





--
With over 950 million devices now running Windows 10, customer
satisfaction is higher than any previous version of windows.

On 16/01/2019 18:36, croy wrote:
On Mon, 14 Jan 2019 11:58:53 -0600, philo wrote:

On 1/14/19 11:01 AM, Davidm wrote:
On Mon, 14 Jan 2019 10:11:29 -0600, philo wrote:
It's a 300 page book but the problem is evidently with the plug-in
I'm using Word 2000, so this may not apply, but I started with Word for DOS. But with Word for
Windows, it's always been the case that when working on a long, complex document, frequent
saves are a must to prevent Word crashes. If I'm doing something truly esoteric, I save after
each successful step! alt f s is your friend!


Perhaps you didn't know that there is no point in having a 300 page in
one document when you can have chapters in different documents and have
a table of content in one and/or index in another. All separate
documents but linked by Word's wonderful content/index features. You
guys need to learn best practices but considering you are too old to
learn new tricks, I don't hold my breadth about this.



--
With over 950 million devices now running Windows 10, customer
satisfaction is higher than any previous version of windows.

Of course,
LibreOffice can't do as good of a job with spreadsheets as Microsoft
Office can and that has been demonstrated numerous times in
comp.os.linux.advocacy.

I initially felt the same way but have been able to do most everything I use
Excel for just by no longer comparing. This, of course, is the result of having
to familiarize myself with every 'free' spreadsheet app going today because of
training others.

One caveat is Excel makes for a very good replacement for Word in MS Office,
Writer in LO! (IMO)


Writer is good enough in my opinion, but even
it can't do something as basic as rotate images added into a document.
It seems like it's one of the first things they should have been able
to implement in LO.

Not true!
Wriiter has a Rotate menuitem on its Format dropdown with those 'basic'
features you say are missing. Regardless, pic manipulation should be done
elsewhere before inserting into a doc so its manipulations don't get saved with
the host doc so as to result in larger file sizes.

--
Garry

Free usenet access at http://www.eternal-september.org
Classic VB Users Regroup!
comp.lang.basic.visual.misc
microsoft.public.vb.general.discussion

On 1/16/19 6:20 PM, n/a wrote:
"philo"* wrote in message ...

On 1/14/19 5:34 PM, Machiel de Wit wrote:
philo schreef op 14-01-2019
in :
On 1/14/19 10:11 AM, philo wrote:
Have not found a group for Word 2010

My wife is using MS Word 2010 on her Win10 machine with 16 gig of RAM

If she tries to cut and paste several pages of text she is getting
an "out of memory" error.

If I check the app while running it is using under 100 megs of memory.

All MS help answers are absurdly irrelevant to so solving this.

She is simply limiting how much she will cut and paste at a time
but this really seems ridiculous...as she is only trying to cut and
paste perhaps three or four pages .

She is an extremely fast worker and I saw her cutting and pasting in
a fraction of a second.

Once she slowed down just a tad it looks all OK now.

Exchange your disk for a SSD.




A good idea but the problem seems to be that I had originally
installed the 32 bit version of Word.
snip.


Back then MS advised everyone not to install the 64bit version.

https://www.urtech.ca/2018/09/solved...w-recommended/




If I followed the good advice at the time it was probably inadvertent!


The 64 bit version is now installed but it think I found what the
problem really was. I looked at the Office 2010 tool kit and checked the
cache settings.


By default MS Word is set to NOT clear cache on closing and to store
cache for 14 days!


There is also an option to clear cache .


I cleared cache, set the program to only hold for one day and to clear
when closed.


I also told my wife she can run the tool kit to clear cache anytime she
wanted...and to do so periodically after large edits.


She had no further problems yesterday but I did not make this discovery
until close to the end of her work day.

In article , Wolf K
wrote:

By default MS Word is set to NOT clear cache on closing and to store
cache for 14 days!

There is also an option to clear cache .

I cleared cache, set the program to only hold for one day and to clear
when closed.

I also told my wife she can run the tool kit to clear cache anytime she
wanted...and to do so periodically after large edits.

She had no further problems yesterday* but I did not make this discovery
until close to the end of her work day.

Thanks for this. Fits what I think I know. IIRC, the cache by default is
written to disk at regular intervals, so a large cache would invoke
paging. Paging takes a long time.

no. writing to disk can be done in the background and does not
necessarily involve paging, which itself does not take a long time.

On 2019-01-17 03:13, GS wrote:
[...]
Wriiter has a Rotate menuitem on its Format dropdown with those 'basic'
features you say are missing. Regardless, pic manipulation should be done
elsewhere before inserting into a doc so its manipulations don't get saved
with the host doc so as to result in larger file sizes.

Agreed. Also, never enlarge an image to fit. If you do that externally, then
you risk a pixellated image.
Agreed!
I've seen these so often I'm beginning to think
a lot of people just don't see what they're looking at.
Ditto!
IMO, about the only thing you should do within the wordproc program is to
shrink the image to fit.

Agreed!

--
Garry

Free usenet access at http://www.eternal-september.org
Classic VB Users Regroup!
comp.lang.basic.visual.misc
microsoft.public.vb.general.discussion

On Thu, 17 Jan 2019 08:36:09 -0600, philo wrote:

On 1/16/19 6:20 PM, n/a wrote:
"philo"* wrote in message ...

On 1/14/19 5:34 PM, Machiel de Wit wrote:
philo schreef op 14-01-2019
in :
On 1/14/19 10:11 AM, philo wrote:
Have not found a group for Word 2010

My wife is using MS Word 2010 on her Win10 machine with 16 gig of RAM

If she tries to cut and paste several pages of text she is getting
an "out of memory" error.

If I check the app while running it is using under 100 megs of memory.

All MS help answers are absurdly irrelevant to so solving this.

She is simply limiting how much she will cut and paste at a time
but this really seems ridiculous...as she is only trying to cut and
paste perhaps three or four pages .

She is an extremely fast worker and I saw her cutting and pasting in
a fraction of a second.

Once she slowed down just a tad it looks all OK now.

Exchange your disk for a SSD.




A good idea but the problem seems to be that I had originally
installed the 32 bit version of Word.
snip.


Back then MS advised everyone not to install the 64bit version.

https://www.urtech.ca/2018/09/solved...w-recommended/




If I followed the good advice at the time it was probably inadvertent!


The 64 bit version is now installed but it think I found what the
problem really was. I looked at the Office 2010 tool kit and checked the
cache settings.


By default MS Word is set to NOT clear cache on closing and to store
cache for 14 days!


There is also an option to clear cache .


I cleared cache, set the program to only hold for one day and to clear
when closed.


I also told my wife she can run the tool kit to clear cache anytime she
wanted...and to do so periodically after large edits.


She had no further problems yesterday but I did not make this discovery
until close to the end of her work day.

That doesn't surprise me as I mentioned before with Windows slowing
tremendously if a user takes too long to clean the disk with the
built-in options. I'm glad that it all works for her though.

In article , Wolf K
wrote:

Thanks for this. Fits what I think I know. IIRC, the cache by default is
written to disk at regular intervals, so a large cache would invoke
paging. Paging takes a long time.

no. writing to disk can be done in the background and does not
necessarily involve paging, which itself does not take a long time.


You haven't experienced an under-resourced machine, then.

i have.

Our first
laptop had 1GB RAM. There was constant disk activity as paging was done
"in the background." Anything that involved the disk (eg Saving a doc)
was painfully slow. I maxed the RAM to 2GB, the difference was spectacular.

that's a very different issue than an app writing temp files.

The issue involves how much idle time is available for background tasks.

no, because it's done asynchronously.

Sure, modern machines are very fast compared to older ones, but we have
also come to expect much faster responses.

except that they're short enough to not be an issue.

you're not going to notice the difference between a half-second and one
second, unless you're sitting there with a stopwatch, and even then,
human reaction time will be a major factor.

OP indicated that the machine
was responding too slowly. His reported solution suggests that caching
and paging were somehow involved.

that was a guess. he did not profile the app to see where the
bottleneck actually was.

however, he did say he was using a 32 bit app and a questionable plugin.

A 14 day old cache could be several
GB,

for a word processor, that's very unlikely

so even 16GB of RAM might not have enough space to hold it without
paging. Paging involves writing and reading back. Hence it's slower than
simple writing to disk.

there's no reason why *all* of the supposed multi-gig cache would be in
memory (that would be very stupid), but regardless, reading or writing
a gigabyte takes a couple of seconds on modern hardware.

In short, resetting the cache retention changed the amount of data to be
held in RAM, hence reduced the need for paging, hence speeded up the
machine's repsonse. The details would be of interest to someone who
wants to make the process faster, but unfortunately they aren't available.

he changed several things to solve his problem, so you can't attribute
it to *just* that.