Speak a ommon spelling error list (hints on demand)

On 8/30/2017 10:47 AM, Ken Blake wrote:
On Wed, 30 Aug 2017 10:03:29 -0500, Rene Lamontagne
wrote:

On 8/30/2017 9:58 AM, Ken Blake wrote:
On Wed, 30 Aug 2017 11:59:52 +0100, "NY" wrote:

"Robert Bannister" wrote in message
...
Sadly, it seems that in this country at least, "waistcoat" has been
replaced by "vest". It helps that we never called an undershirt a vest as
they do in England.

Exactly. When I went out to Boston to see my sister and her family who were
living there for a few years because he husband had been seconded to
Gillette's head office, I took the time to build up a list of the most
obvious British/American differences (eg tap/faucet, flat/apartment,
waistcoat/vest, vest/undershirt etc). And the different meanings of
"momentarily" (*). And I knew not to look too horrified when an American
referred to a woman's fanny (**) :-)

The one word I missed from my "be careful how you use this word to avoid
confusion" list was "fortnight". Someone asked me how long I was staying in
Boston and I said "about a fortnight" which was met with blank
incomprehension because I gather that this word (which refers to a period of
fourteen days ie two weeks) is not used in the US as commonly.


I'm familiar with the word "fortnight," but it's almost never used in
the US.


I'm always scrupulous about always quoting dates with the month as a word.
1/2/17 can be interpreted as 1st of February or January 2nd depending on
whether you apply British or American convention,


Yes.


but "1st of February" is
unambiguous,


Yes.


even if an American might have said it "February 2nd".


Not me. I'd say "February first." g

But a lot of Americans would say "Febuary first."




Likewise for times in Germany: I'm wise to the fact that Germans use "half
[an hour] *to* three"


My German is extremely rusty and wasn't great to begin with (I studied
it in college many years ago), but as I remember, it's not "half to
three" but just "half three" (halb drei). It's strange to an English
speaker, but it makes a lot of sense.

where we would say "half *past* two". The problem
comes when a German doesn't know that you've adjusted: I once had an amusing
conversation with a German when I arranged to meet him at "halb drei" [half
three] meaning half past two,


Yes, as I said above


and he didn't realise that I was aware of the
different convention and thought I'd blindly translated "half" and "three",
and so mentally adjusted this to what he would think of as "half [to] four".
After that I said "half nach [past] drei", even though this isn't
idiomatically correct, to avoid any misunderstanding.


(*) In Britain, it means "*for* a moment" (ie transiently, briefly) rather
than "*in* a moment" (ie soon),


Thanks very much. I didn't know that.


hence the hoary old joke about the American
pilot who announced to his planeload of British passengers that they would
be landing momentarily, to which the Brits thought "I hope he stays on the
ground long enough for us to get off". Rather than use the word "wrongly"
(by my standards) I tend to avoid it and rephrase it if I'm talking to
Americans.

(**) In case anyone doesn't know, "fanny" refers to the female genitals in
British English and the buttocks in American English. Important that
Americans coming to Britain don't use the wrong word :-)


I didn't know that either.



Anyone here have trouble spelling I or A ? :-))


I'm very good at spelling. Eye and eh. g



Touche. :-)

Rene

Ken Blake wrote:
On Wed, 30 Aug 2017 13:34:43 +0100, "NY" wrote:


One of those class/regional distinctions is the use of the word "dinner". In
upper/middle class usage, especially in the south of England, it refers to
the evening meal. But in working class, northern usage it often refers to
the mid-day meal, with the evening meal being referred to as "tea". However
even in the south, the mid-day meal in a school is always referred to as
"dinner", as in "school dinners", "dinner money" (the money you take to
school each week and give to the teacher to pay for that week's meals) and
"dinner ladies" (the women, often parents of children at the school, who
supervise the meals, making sure that everyone queues up and files into the
dining room in an orderly fashion).


The same in the US. The word "dinner" is used differently in different
parts of the US. To me, dinner is the evening meal; to some others
it's what I call "lunch" (or better, "luncheon," but that word is
fading fast), and the evening meal is called "supper."

It's somewhat similar in Italian with the usage of "cenare" and
"pranzare."


Well the way I was taught lunch is a midday meal and luncheon is a
*formal* midday meal. Supper is an *informal* light end-of day meal and
dinner is a more *formal* end-of day meal.

--
Take care,

Jonathan
-------------------
LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com

On 2017-08-30 2:15 PM, Jonathan N. Little wrote:
Ken Blake wrote:
On Wed, 30 Aug 2017 13:34:43 +0100, "NY" wrote:


One of those class/regional distinctions is the use of the word
"dinner". In
upper/middle class usage, especially in the south of England, it
refers to
the evening meal. But in working class, northern usage it often
refers to
the mid-day meal, with the evening meal being referred to as "tea".
However
even in the south, the mid-day meal in a school is always referred to as
"dinner", as in "school dinners", "dinner money" (the money you take to
school each week and give to the teacher to pay for that week's
meals) and
"dinner ladies" (the women, often parents of children at the school, who
supervise the meals, making sure that everyone queues up and files
into the
dining room in an orderly fashion).


The same in the US. The word "dinner" is used differently in different
parts of the US. To me, dinner is the evening meal; to some others
it's what I call "lunch" (or better, "luncheon," but that word is
fading fast), and the evening meal is called "supper."

It's somewhat similar in Italian with the usage of "cenare" and
"pranzare."


Well the way I was taught lunch is a midday meal and luncheon is a
*formal* midday meal. Supper is an *informal* light end-of day meal and
dinner is a more *formal* end-of day meal.

We ate lunch at noon, more or less, and used "dinner" and "supper"
interchangeably for the evening meal. Some families did have dinner at
midday, and if they did, it was generally a large meal. We only had
Christmas or New Year's dinnners at midday, and then only if the turkey
was cooked in time. Usually it was later, but not as late as supper.

--
Cheryl

In article , am says...

That's another thing one doesn't generally see
in the US: Social class being indicated by the
silliness of one's nickname.

Do Americans use names like Earl, Prince, Princess,
Duke, to indicate their social class?

If so, which?

Janet.

On Wed, 30 Aug 2017 18:39:48 +0100, Janet wrote:

In article , am says...

That's another thing one doesn't generally see
in the US: Social class being indicated by the
silliness of one's nickname.

Do Americans use names like Earl, Prince, Princess,
Duke, to indicate their social class?

If so, which?


"Prince" is sometimes used to indicate the class of dogs. g

On Wed, 30 Aug 2017 12:45:30 -0400, "Jonathan N. Little"
wrote:

Ken Blake wrote:
On Wed, 30 Aug 2017 13:34:43 +0100, "NY" wrote:


One of those class/regional distinctions is the use of the word "dinner". In
upper/middle class usage, especially in the south of England, it refers to
the evening meal. But in working class, northern usage it often refers to
the mid-day meal, with the evening meal being referred to as "tea". However
even in the south, the mid-day meal in a school is always referred to as
"dinner", as in "school dinners", "dinner money" (the money you take to
school each week and give to the teacher to pay for that week's meals) and
"dinner ladies" (the women, often parents of children at the school, who
supervise the meals, making sure that everyone queues up and files into the
dining room in an orderly fashion).


The same in the US. The word "dinner" is used differently in different
parts of the US. To me, dinner is the evening meal; to some others
it's what I call "lunch" (or better, "luncheon," but that word is
fading fast), and the evening meal is called "supper."

It's somewhat similar in Italian with the usage of "cenare" and
"pranzare."


Well the way I was taught lunch is a midday meal and luncheon is a
*formal* midday meal.


"Lunch" is a verb and "luncheon" is a noun. At least that's the way it
used to be. Hardly anyone makes that distinction now; "lunch" has
become a noun and "luncheon" is rarely used..


Supper is an *informal* light end-of day meal and
dinner is a more *formal* end-of day meal.

On Wed, 30 Aug 2017 18:39:48 +0100, Janet wrote:

In article , am says...

That's another thing one doesn't generally see
in the US: Social class being indicated by the
silliness of one's nickname.

Do Americans use names like Earl, Prince, Princess,
Duke, to indicate their social class?

If so, which?

Your newborn child is always "special", and some people think that by
giving your child a royal title as a name, it elevates their status in
the world. Mu = 100.

Queen Latifah was originally Dana Elaine Owens. King Gillette was
er....King Gillette.

"Janet" wrote

| Do Americans use names like Earl, Prince, Princess,
| Duke, to indicate their social class?
|
| If so, which?
|

Prince and princess. They refer to someone who's
irredeemably spoiled. It's often used in reference to
Jews, but could be anyone. A sample joke from George
Lopez, complaining about his girlfriend who he says is
a Mexican-American princess:

"The difference between a Mexican-American princess
and a Jewish American princess is that with the Mexican
one, the *orgasms* are real and the *jelwelry* is fake."

He used that in his standup routine. These days it
probably wouldn't get work due to political correctness.

But seriously, I'm not aware of any formal titles used
by Americans. One of the notable differences is that
while Brits are very class-conscious, Americans don't
believe in class. We *are* class conscious, but we
pretend the distinctions don't exist because we idealize
equality. So they're not formalized.

"Wolf K" wrote

| It's a variation of Cherie.

Not in this case. It was a nickname.

On Wed, 30 Aug 2017 11:08:05 -0700, Ken Blake
wrote:

On Wed, 30 Aug 2017 12:45:30 -0400, "Jonathan N. Little"
wrote:

Ken Blake wrote:
On Wed, 30 Aug 2017 13:34:43 +0100, "NY" wrote:


One of those class/regional distinctions is the use of the word "dinner". In
upper/middle class usage, especially in the south of England, it refers to
the evening meal. But in working class, northern usage it often refers to
the mid-day meal, with the evening meal being referred to as "tea". However
even in the south, the mid-day meal in a school is always referred to as
"dinner", as in "school dinners", "dinner money" (the money you take to
school each week and give to the teacher to pay for that week's meals) and
"dinner ladies" (the women, often parents of children at the school, who
supervise the meals, making sure that everyone queues up and files into the
dining room in an orderly fashion).


The same in the US. The word "dinner" is used differently in different
parts of the US. To me, dinner is the evening meal; to some others
it's what I call "lunch" (or better, "luncheon," but that word is
fading fast), and the evening meal is called "supper."

It's somewhat similar in Italian with the usage of "cenare" and
"pranzare."


Well the way I was taught lunch is a midday meal and luncheon is a
*formal* midday meal.


"Lunch" is a verb and "luncheon" is a noun. At least that's the way it
used to be. Hardly anyone makes that distinction now; "lunch" has
become a noun and "luncheon" is rarely used..

"Luncheons" are still attended by groups of ladies. The phrase
"Ladies who lunch" is described as "well-off, well-dressed women who
meet for social luncheons, usually during the working week. Typically,
the women involved are married and non-working. Normally the lunch is
in a high-class restaurant, but could also take place in a department
store during a shopping trip. Sometimes the lunch takes place under
the pretext of raising money for charity."
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

On Wed, 30 Aug 2017 18:39:48 +0100, Janet wrote:

In article , am says...

That's another thing one doesn't generally see
in the US: Social class being indicated by the
silliness of one's nickname.

Do Americans use names like Earl, Prince, Princess,
Duke, to indicate their social class?

If so, which?

That's a tough question to address because the answer may be answers,
and the answers regional.

In my own observation, "Earl" is a male first name that doesn't denote
social class in any way, and is used more in the South than in the
North or East.

Prince and Princess are often the first names of African Americans. My
grandsons have been on both football and baseball teams with a
"Prince", and it was not the same "Prince". One of them has a sister
named "Princess".

"Duke" is usually a nickname. I've never met a "Duke" with that as a
given name. (My parents had a German Shepard by the name of "Duke".)

But, to social class, look to nicknames. If you come across a Muffy,
Missy, Bitsy, Trip, Trey, or Scooter, they probably come from a
socially prominent family.

All above are based on personal observations and not to be taken as
reliable information. Except the bit about my parent's dog. Oh, and
my grandson's teammates.


--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

On 30/8/17 8:58 am, Wolf K wrote:
On 2017-08-29 20:08, Robert Bannister wrote:
On 30/8/17 6:06 am, Wolf K wrote:
On 2017-08-29 17:03, Ken Blake wrote:
On Tue, 29 Aug 2017 21:38:33 +0100, Â* wrote:

[...]robably because my parents do as well and it's what I have heard
all my life.
I'm also reminded of the obsolete spelling of the past-participle
of the
verb "show", as typified by the notice "All tickets must be shewn"
on old
buses. My dad remembers thinking that this was an absurd spelling of
"shown", even when he was growing up in the 1940s.

I think that's just a British spelling. It's never used in the US.

It was spelt thus, actually, into the early 1900s, especially by New
England writers. Its disappearance in current US spelling reminds me
of the disappearance of "practise", a devil of a word, since it was
supposedly a different word than "practice", and one was supposed to
know when to use which spelling. In speech of course there's no
difference at all, which shews you how silly it is to insist on some
spelling variations. They are really class-markers; most rules of
"correct English" are about class, not grammar.

There is a whole series of pairs with c and s, where c is the noun:
advice, prophecy, practice, licence
and s is the verb]
advise, prophesy, practise, license.
Some, like advice/advise sound different, other don't, but the
noun/verb rule remains. Nothing to do with class.

Erm, the linguists who study these things beg to differ. The c/s
distinction doesn't apply to other verb/noun pairs, such a price/price.

I made a mistake when I wrote "rule", but I didn't mean to suggest that
the phenomenon applies to all word pairs anyway. Very few patterns in
English work across the whole language.

Or with /z/ phoneme, surprise/surprise. IOW, it's not a rule, it's a
convention. Where noun and verb are pronounced the same, it's a class
marker to observe the distinct spellings: only the "properly educated"
observe it. Nor is "properly educated" the same as "well educated".

I still don't see it as a class marker, but it did become a whole lot
harder when Mr Webster decided to spell the noun "licence" with an s.


Then there's vice/vise. Technically, one's a behaviour, the other's a
tool. But the spelling vice for vise has been around for at least a
century. I first saw it in an old machinist's handbook, which had
adverts for tools in the back. I was somewhat surprised.

BTW, recently I've noticed more and more people pronouncing "prophesy"
and "prophecy" the same way. Odd, but there it is.




--
Robert B. born England a long time ago;
Western Australia since 1972

On 30/8/17 10:00 pm, Mayayana wrote:
"Athel Cornish-Bowden" wrote

| If you're addressing a cat, it's OK to say "Here, pussy"
|
| Agreed. No problem at all if you're addressing a cat.
|

I'm familiar with that, of course, but my point is
that calling a cat pussy has pretty much gone out of
usage in the US. When I heard someone say it in
England I understood. But I was also taken aback. If
you come to the US and say "Here pussy" there may
be people around you trying to hide chuckles.

Interestingly, the British woman I heard referring
to her pussy [cat] was a very snobbish and proper
type, yet she went by the name Cherry. So Cherry
was talking about her pussy.... you can't make this
stuff up.

That's another thing one doesn't generally see
in the US: Social class being indicated by the
silliness of one's nickname.


I thought that bit about silly nicknames was mostly a 1920s phenomenon
and that it did occur in the eastern United States too among the same
class of people.

--
Robert B. born England a long time ago;
Western Australia since 1972

In article , am says...

"Janet" wrote

| Do Americans use names like Earl, Prince, Princess,
| Duke, to indicate their social class?
|
| If so, which?
|

Prince and princess. They refer to someone who's
irredeemably spoiled.

I asked about people whose NAME is Prince, or Princess.


But seriously, I'm not aware of any formal titles used
by Americans.

I'm not referring to titles.


One of the notable differences is that
while Brits are very class-conscious, Americans don't
believe in class.

Then why do Americans have names like Prince, Earl, Duke etc.

Janet

In article , tonycooper214
@gmail.com says...

On Wed, 30 Aug 2017 18:39:48 +0100, Janet wrote:

In article , am says...

That's another thing one doesn't generally see
in the US: Social class being indicated by the
silliness of one's nickname.

Do Americans use names like Earl, Prince, Princess,
Duke, to indicate their social class?

If so, which?

That's a tough question to address because the answer may be answers,
and the answers regional.

In my own observation, "Earl" is a male first name that doesn't denote
social class in any way, and is used more in the South than in the
North or East.

Prince and Princess are often the first names of African Americans. My
grandsons have been on both football and baseball teams with a
"Prince", and it was not the same "Prince". One of them has a sister
named "Princess".

"Duke" is usually a nickname. I've never met a "Duke" with that as a
given name. (My parents had a German Shepard by the name of "Duke".)

But, to social class, look to nicknames. If you come across a Muffy,
Missy, Bitsy, Trip, Trey, or Scooter, they probably come from a
socially prominent family.

:-) To Brits, those are all names for dogs.

All above are based on personal observations and not to be taken as
reliable information. Except the bit about my parent's dog. Oh, and
my grandson's teammates.

Janet.