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Why when I select pictures 1 to 10, does Paint.NET order them capriciously?



 
 
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  #16  
Old September 21st 18, 08:23 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,873
Default Why when I select pictures 1 to 10, does Paint.NET order themcapriciously?

Arlen H. Holder wrote:
On Wed, 19 Sep 2018 09:35:53 -0400, Wolf K wrote:

Possibly ordering by date created/modified. See waht you get when you
use command line DIR.


That's a good point that we should look to see the DOS order.
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=4441161testofdos.jpg

C:\tmp\faststonedir
Volume in drive C has no label.
Volume Serial Number is xxxxxxx

Directory of C:\tmp\faststone

09/18/2018 11:19 PM DIR .
09/18/2018 11:19 PM DIR ..
09/18/2018 11:26 PM 121,028 numbertest00.jpg
09/18/2018 07:03 PM 225,585 numbertest01.jpg
09/18/2018 07:05 PM 236,357 numbertest02.jpg
09/18/2018 07:05 PM 265,838 numbertest03.jpg
09/18/2018 07:07 PM 263,806 numbertest04.jpg
09/18/2018 07:17 PM 538,486 numbertest05.jpg
6 File(s) 1,651,100 bytes
2 Dir(s) 767,639,662,592 bytes free

Loading them, en massem into Paint 3D, I get 6 windows:
- bottom window = 00
- next window = 01
- next window = 05
- penultimate window = 02
- top window = 03
Testing a second time, I get a *different* order!
- bottom = 00
- next = 01
- next = 02
- next = 05
- next = 04
- top = 03

Running that through Paint.NET, I get:
- 00
- 02
- 03
- 05
- 01
- 04

Running that a second time through Paint.NET, I get:
- 00
- 03
- 04
- 05
- 01
- 02

One caveat I realized is that it _might_ matter which file we decide to
right click on to open all selected files. And Paul mentioned Windows
Defender, which I think is running on my system (but no AV is running).


I got something for you to try:

1) Start a trace running on Sysinternals Process Monitor.
(I was using this on a lark, hoping to see stupid
stuff being done out of order.)
2) For some reason, copies of notepad are opening
my set of four test files in alphabetical order
(in terms of windows opening on the screen). Whereas
when Process Monitor wasn't running, my four windows
were opening in random order.

For some reason, things are "a bit serialized".

I won't believe this is happening, unless
someone else reproduces it!

1) Create four text files: able.txt baker.txt cat.txt dog.txt
2) Highlight all four in File Explorer.
3) Select Edit from the right-click menu, which
causes four copies of Notepad to open.
4) When Process Monitor is running a trace, the
windows stack on the screen in the proper order.

Paul
Ads
  #17  
Old September 21st 18, 11:04 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Frank Slootweg
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Posts: 1,226
Default Why when I select pictures 1 to 10, does Paint.NET order them capriciously?

Paul wrote:
Wolf K wrote:
On 2018-09-18 22:15, Arlen Holder wrote:
[...]
But when Paint.NET comes up, they're in a seemingly capricious order.
ant008, ant005, ant003, ant006, ant009, ant004, ant002, and007, and001
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=731...mbertest04.jpg

[...]

Possibly ordering by date created/modified. See waht you get when you
use command line DIR.


There's some source here, for a simple program to list a directory.

Perhaps you could compile up a copy and test it out, and see whether
FindNextFile is random about things ?

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/win...in-a-directory

Listing the Files in a Directory - FindFirstFile, FindNextFile


As 'Arlen Holder' likes to use Linux, he might want to try 'ls -U' to
list the entries in directory order.

$ man ls
....
-U do not sort; list entries in directory order
....
$
  #18  
Old September 21st 18, 01:24 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Mayayana
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,438
Default Why when I select pictures 1 to 10, does Paint.NET order them capriciously?

"Paul" wrote

| 2) Highlight all four in File Explorer.
| 3) Select Edit from the right-click menu, which
| causes four copies of Notepad to open.
| 4) When Process Monitor is running a trace, the
| windows stack on the screen in the proper order.
|

What's the proper order? Didn't you lasso
them with the mouse? It may depend on
which direction you came from. In any case,
Explorer will be sendind the list in its order
to Notepad. But that might not be the same
order you get with a multi-selection FileOpen
dialogue. That could also be lassoed or single-
selected and will then return the list to the
calling process in the order it sees.

Then there's the other glaring question:
Why didn't anyone ask Arlen what difference
it makes?


  #19  
Old September 21st 18, 01:47 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Arlen H. Holder
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Posts: 33
Default Why when I select pictures 1 to 10, does Paint.NET order them capriciously?

On Fri, 21 Sep 2018 08:24:07 -0400, Mayayana wrote:

Then there's the other glaring question:
Why didn't anyone ask Arlen what difference
it makes?


Are you just playing stupid silly games with us Mayayana?
Again?

You have to be utterly nuts, Mayayana, not to realize what *huge*
difference it makes. Jesus.

That you would even *ask* that stupid question, is amazing.
I suspect you have an ulterior (childish) motive.

Since nobody is _that_ stupid.
Not even you.

I can't believe you, Mayayana, would even *ask* such a stupid question.
If it was someone else whom I didn't know was an idiot, I might cut them
some slack.

But you've proven, Mayayana, time and again, you are a child.
You prove that by your idiotic assumptions that have zero basis in fact.

HINT: You're a racist against anyone who simply wishes to have privacy.

I write thousands of tutorials. Every single day I write at least one.
Each tutorial can have scores of screenshots.

You know this.
Every screenshot, in thumbnail view, looks exactly the same.

You know this too.

This is basic photo-editing stuff I'm explaining to you Mayayana.
Very very very very very very basic stuff.

If you can't comprehend even the most basic stuff about thumbnails, you
can't possibly help us answer the question.

The question is clearly too deep for you to comprehden if you are going to
intimate that a swcore of screenshots in thumbnail view look any different
from each other.

How you could even intimate4 that, is beyond me.
Are you just playing games with us Mayayana.
Again?
  #20  
Old September 21st 18, 03:09 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Frank Slootweg
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,226
Default Why when I select pictures 1 to 10, does Paint.NET order them capriciously?

Arlen Holder wrote:
Why when I select pictures 1 to 10, does Paint.NET order them capriciously?

Knowing Microsoft orders files funny when you name then file1 or file01, I
named a bunch of screenshots ant001, ant002, ... ant009 using Irfanview
batch renaming commands.

In Windows file explorer, I selected the first file ant001:
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=686...mbertest01.jpg

And then held down the shift key to select the last file, ant009, which
selects all nine files.
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=890...mbertest02.jpg

I right click on any one of them to "Edit with Paint.NET":
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=700...mbertest03.jpg

But when Paint.NET comes up, they're in a seemingly capricious order.
ant008, ant005, ant003, ant006, ant009, ant004, ant002, and007, and001
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=731...mbertest04.jpg

This capricious ordering happens day in and day out, no matter what, which
makes sequential screenshot editing a pain for no good reason (AFAIK).

Since I wish to edit them in sequence to document an Android to iOS file
transfer, I have to manually reorder them within Paint.NET.

What trick am I missing for loading them into Paint.NET in correct order?

NOTE: It's not a big deal with 9 files, but try this set of 400!

Why when I select pictures 1 to 10, does Paint.NET order them capriciously?


IIRC, you strip the EXIF information from your JPEGs. As a test,
create a few .jpg files *with* the EXIF information intact and see if
*they* come out in order in Paint.NET.
  #21  
Old September 21st 18, 03:24 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Paul[_32_]
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Posts: 11,873
Default Why when I select pictures 1 to 10, does Paint.NET order themcapriciously?

Mayayana wrote:
"Paul" wrote

| 2) Highlight all four in File Explorer.
| 3) Select Edit from the right-click menu, which
| causes four copies of Notepad to open.
| 4) When Process Monitor is running a trace, the
| windows stack on the screen in the proper order.
|

What's the proper order? Didn't you lasso
them with the mouse? It may depend on
which direction you came from. In any case,
Explorer will be sendind the list in its order
to Notepad. But that might not be the same
order you get with a multi-selection FileOpen
dialogue. That could also be lassoed or single-
selected and will then return the list to the
calling process in the order it sees.

Then there's the other glaring question:
Why didn't anyone ask Arlen what difference
it makes?


There's two aspects to the observation so far.

1) The order the windows appear on the screen
appears to be random. Not "random" as in
"suitable for generating cryptographics keys"
random, but just not exactly reproducible. And it's
not a good thing, when we can't predict what a
computer will do. There are all sorts of situations
where we expect "race conditions" to inject non-determinism.
This one could have happened in order, without
too much trouble.

2) There's an assumption on my part, that the launch
is actually ordered.

When I ran the "findnextfile" test that I joked that
Wolf could compile up and test, I gave it a try
myself, and the order the file system enumerates in,
isn't exactly an order you might normally expect. It
didn't seem to be date or alphabetic or size. The routine
is optimized for speed (as a previous experiment to
list millions of test files on my RAMDisk proved).

But the important thing in the findnextfile test,
was the order remained consistent from run to run.
The order the directory listing popped out in each
run was the same. That's still determinism, and what
you'd expect from a process running in its own thread.

It shouldn't be possible to have the results show up
in a different order each time. We hope the test is
consistent from run to run.

With regard to the Process Monitor test result, it
occurred to be later that I was running Process Monitor
with the Backing Store set to the same drive as the
drive with the files I was testing with. And perhaps
that has something to do with changing the behavior.

And the weird part is, by using Process Monitor to observe
Notepad opening four text files at once, the windows
stack in alphabetical order, each time.

This tells me the process may have started launching
things alphabetically, but the wheels fell off during
the operation. There are lots of ways to lose serialization,
Why is a little file system activity (from Process Monitor
to the Backing Store file) causing serialization to
happen properly ?

*******

The windows are labeled at some level, so I probably
won't select the wrong one by accident. It doesn't really
matter that they don't pop out in order. I'm minorly
annoyed that the order is different each time. Selecting
Cascade from the Task Bar menu doesn't make a difference either.

Note that this isn't generally true with the Virtual Desktop
Manager in Windows 10. As a joke, I launched 500 copies of
Command Prompt from a script in Windows 10, and (obviously)
the presentation in Virtual Disk Manager was "non-useful".
That was mainly a test to see whether the system would
even tolerate opening 500 windows. And that part seemed
to work OK. But as a GUI design, the VDM was "mostly useless".
And it isn't particularly a tractable problem at that
level either. Even if you listed the PID on the screen of
each one, PIDs are recycled often enough that the order
of them is also "a bit random".

And as someone might already have noticed, Win10 by default
is set to not open more than 15 items like that in an
extended selection. You can set the registry value to
make the extended selection size having "Edit" available
to "unlimited" if you want. So you could then highlight 500
text files and click "Edit" and have 500 copies of
Notepad open (once you set the registry entry to make
it happen). This is possibly why the OP (Arlen) refers
to working in small batches, because he ran into the
limit and couldn't make it do more of them at once :-)

I don't recommend overwhelming the system with windows
like that. The machine may have the resources to handle
it, but for the human operator, it rapidly loses value
as a means of working.

For large numbers of files, you may want to script
something to process them. Or risk carpel tunnel from
all the HID activity needed... :-)

Paul
  #22  
Old September 21st 18, 03:54 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Arlen H. Holder
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 33
Default Why when I select pictures 1 to 10, does Paint.NET order them capriciously?

On Fri, 21 Sep 2018 10:24:02 -0400, Paul wrote:

And it's
not a good thing, when we can't predict what a
computer will do. There are all sorts of situations
where we expect "race conditions" to inject non-determinism.
This one could have happened in order, without
too much trouble.


I agree with everything you said, Paul, where I interject an
unsubstantiated musing that it's not really random; we just don't know what
the algorithm is.

I don't mean that flippantly; I mean that seriously.

2) There's an assumption on my part, that the launch
is actually ordered.


I think it "is" ordered; but that we just don't know the ordering.

For example, perhaps there is an "inode" for each file, where that inode is
the order. I am conjecturing since I don't believe it's random.

When I ran the "findnextfile" test that I joked that
Wolf could compile up and test, I gave it a try
myself, and the order the file system enumerates in,
isn't exactly an order you might normally expect.


We should "standardize" on procedure, which, I posit, is likely the
simplest, which is to left click selectg the first file in the File
Explorer sequence, and then shift left click on the last file to selecdt
all ... and then right click on the first file to "open with".

If we use a different approach, that's fine - but we should be consistent.

didn't seem to be date or alphabetic or size. The routine
is optimized for speed (as a previous experiment to
list millions of test files on my RAMDisk proved)


I don't see the date being a factor either but there are different dates
other than the creation date (as you're well aware).

If there is a good "dating" program that can date the files, oh, say, a
minute apart, we could ensure all the various dates are valid (such as the
modification date, last used date, whatever date).
..
But the important thing in the findnextfile test,
was the order remained consistent from run to run.
The order the directory listing popped out in each
run was the same. That's still determinism, and what
you'd expect from a process running in its own thread.


Interesting test. It proves "determinism" is still valid.

It shouldn't be possible to have the results show up
in a different order each time. We hope the test is
consistent from run to run.


Agreed. It shouldn't be capricious.

And the weird part is, by using Process Monitor to observe
Notepad opening four text files at once, the windows
stack in alphabetical order, each time.

This tells me the process may have started launching
things alphabetically, but the wheels fell off during
the operation. There are lots of ways to lose serialization,
Why is a little file system activity (from Process Monitor
to the Backing Store file) causing serialization to
happen properly ?


Interesting what you found it.
a. It starts serialized,
b. But then, it goes unserialized
c. Unless, something keeps it serialized.

The windows are labeled at some level, so I probably
won't select the wrong one by accident. It doesn't really
matter that they don't pop out in order. I'm minorly
annoyed that the order is different each time. Selecting
Cascade from the Task Bar menu doesn't make a difference either.


The original test case matters a *lot*, as I explained to Mayayana, where
if you open a score of thumbnails, they all look exactly the same in the
image editor.

You have to re-order them by hand, which shouldn't be necessary.

Note that this isn't generally true with the Virtual Desktop
Manager in Windows 10. As a joke, I launched 500 copies of
Command Prompt from a script in Windows 10, and (obviously)
the presentation in Virtual Disk Manager was "non-useful".
That was mainly a test to see whether the system would
even tolerate opening 500 windows.


I habitually launch scores of VPN processes, where what happens is that
only the first successful connection wins.

I sometimes set it up so that all unsuccessful connections close the window
after a few seconds, but that's a pain (registry edits), so lately I've
taken to changing the windows transparency and stacking the windows on top
of each other.

Then I can click the close box in sequence, where, since the windows are
transparent to a degree, I get two or three files' warning of the one
successful connection.

This transparency trick works very well simply because you don't actually
'do anything' inside a vpn connection report.

But the point is that I open scores of command windows all the time, where
once in a while I can open a hundred of them, and there's no problem.

(They do seem to open in sequence though ... but I haven't actually checked
that to be a fact.)

And as someone might already have noticed, Win10 by default
is set to not open more than 15 items like that in an
extended selection. You can set the registry value to
make the extended selection size having "Edit" available
to "unlimited" if you want.


This is step 15 of setting up a new Windows OS:

Add a 32-bit DWORD to open more than 15 files at a time.
- HKCU\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Exp lorer
- Name : MultipleInvokePromptMinimum
- Type : DWORD
- Default : 15 (decimal)
- Change to: 100 (decimal)

I need it for two reasons, using it every day:
a. Open up 50 VPN files where only one randomly takes, and,
b. Edit a score of screenshots

So you could then highlight 500
text files and click "Edit" and have 500 copies of
Notepad open (once you set the registry entry to make
it happen). This is possibly why the OP (Arlen) refers
to working in small batches, because he ran into the
limit and couldn't make it do more of them at once :-)


Nope. I set up my system, in step 15, to open up as many as 100 files.

The small batches are about a score, where I'm editing screenshots,
although there are times I need to edit 100 screenshots at a time in
sequence.

But because of this flaw, I can't.

I don't recommend overwhelming the system with windows
like that. The machine may have the resources to handle
it, but for the human operator, it rapidly loses value
as a means of working.


Paint.NET handles a score of files to about 50 with aplomb.
They're just in the wrong order.

The OpenVPN client daemon easily handles 100 command windows, where only
one wins by design. The rest close on their own when properly set up in the
registry to do so. (It's a trick that I learned from an expert that nobody
knows since it's not the default setup for OpenVPN.)

For large numbers of files, you may want to script
something to process them. Or risk carpel tunnel from
all the HID activity needed... :-)


How would you script a *single* instance of Paint.NET to open multiple
files?

You don't want multiple instances of the editor for a whole bunch of
reasons, not the least of which is that the settings won't take between
sessions.
  #23  
Old September 21st 18, 03:54 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Arlen H. Holder
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 33
Default Why when I select pictures 1 to 10, does Paint.NET order them capriciously?

On Fri, 21 Sep 2018 10:24:02 -0400, Paul wrote:

And it's
not a good thing, when we can't predict what a
computer will do. There are all sorts of situations
where we expect "race conditions" to inject non-determinism.
This one could have happened in order, without
too much trouble.


I agree with everything you said, Paul, where I interject an
unsubstantiated musing that it's not really random; we just don't know what
the algorithm is.

I don't mean that flippantly; I mean that seriously.

2) There's an assumption on my part, that the launch
is actually ordered.


I think it "is" ordered; but that we just don't know the ordering.

For example, perhaps there is an "inode" for each file, where that inode is
the order. I am conjecturing since I don't believe it's random.

When I ran the "findnextfile" test that I joked that
Wolf could compile up and test, I gave it a try
myself, and the order the file system enumerates in,
isn't exactly an order you might normally expect.


We should "standardize" on procedure, which, I posit, is likely the
simplest, which is to left click selectg the first file in the File
Explorer sequence, and then shift left click on the last file to selecdt
all ... and then right click on the first file to "open with".

If we use a different approach, that's fine - but we should be consistent.

didn't seem to be date or alphabetic or size. The routine
is optimized for speed (as a previous experiment to
list millions of test files on my RAMDisk proved)


I don't see the date being a factor either but there are different dates
other than the creation date (as you're well aware).

If there is a good "dating" program that can date the files, oh, say, a
minute apart, we could ensure all the various dates are valid (such as the
modification date, last used date, whatever date).
..
But the important thing in the findnextfile test,
was the order remained consistent from run to run.
The order the directory listing popped out in each
run was the same. That's still determinism, and what
you'd expect from a process running in its own thread.


Interesting test. It proves "determinism" is still valid.

It shouldn't be possible to have the results show up
in a different order each time. We hope the test is
consistent from run to run.


Agreed. It shouldn't be capricious.

And the weird part is, by using Process Monitor to observe
Notepad opening four text files at once, the windows
stack in alphabetical order, each time.

This tells me the process may have started launching
things alphabetically, but the wheels fell off during
the operation. There are lots of ways to lose serialization,
Why is a little file system activity (from Process Monitor
to the Backing Store file) causing serialization to
happen properly ?


Interesting what you found it.
a. It starts serialized,
b. But then, it goes unserialized
c. Unless, something keeps it serialized.

The windows are labeled at some level, so I probably
won't select the wrong one by accident. It doesn't really
matter that they don't pop out in order. I'm minorly
annoyed that the order is different each time. Selecting
Cascade from the Task Bar menu doesn't make a difference either.


The original test case matters a *lot*, as I explained to Mayayana, where
if you open a score of thumbnails, they all look exactly the same in the
image editor.

You have to re-order them by hand, which shouldn't be necessary.

Note that this isn't generally true with the Virtual Desktop
Manager in Windows 10. As a joke, I launched 500 copies of
Command Prompt from a script in Windows 10, and (obviously)
the presentation in Virtual Disk Manager was "non-useful".
That was mainly a test to see whether the system would
even tolerate opening 500 windows.


I habitually launch scores of VPN processes, where what happens is that
only the first successful connection wins.

I sometimes set it up so that all unsuccessful connections close the window
after a few seconds, but that's a pain (registry edits), so lately I've
taken to changing the windows transparency and stacking the windows on top
of each other.

Then I can click the close box in sequence, where, since the windows are
transparent to a degree, I get two or three files' warning of the one
successful connection.

This transparency trick works very well simply because you don't actually
'do anything' inside a vpn connection report.

But the point is that I open scores of command windows all the time, where
once in a while I can open a hundred of them, and there's no problem.

(They do seem to open in sequence though ... but I haven't actually checked
that to be a fact.)

And as someone might already have noticed, Win10 by default
is set to not open more than 15 items like that in an
extended selection. You can set the registry value to
make the extended selection size having "Edit" available
to "unlimited" if you want.


This is step 15 of setting up a new Windows OS:

Add a 32-bit DWORD to open more than 15 files at a time.
- HKCU\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Exp lorer
- Name : MultipleInvokePromptMinimum
- Type : DWORD
- Default : 15 (decimal)
- Change to: 100 (decimal)

I need it for two reasons, using it every day:
a. Open up 50 VPN files where only one randomly takes, and,
b. Edit a score of screenshots

So you could then highlight 500
text files and click "Edit" and have 500 copies of
Notepad open (once you set the registry entry to make
it happen). This is possibly why the OP (Arlen) refers
to working in small batches, because he ran into the
limit and couldn't make it do more of them at once :-)


Nope. I set up my system, in step 15, to open up as many as 100 files.

The small batches are about a score, where I'm editing screenshots,
although there are times I need to edit 100 screenshots at a time in
sequence.

But because of this flaw, I can't.

I don't recommend overwhelming the system with windows
like that. The machine may have the resources to handle
it, but for the human operator, it rapidly loses value
as a means of working.


Paint.NET handles a score of files to about 50 with aplomb.
They're just in the wrong order.

The OpenVPN client daemon easily handles 100 command windows, where only
one wins by design. The rest close on their own when properly set up in the
registry to do so. (It's a trick that I learned from an expert that nobody
knows since it's not the default setup for OpenVPN.)

For large numbers of files, you may want to script
something to process them. Or risk carpel tunnel from
all the HID activity needed... :-)


How would you script a *single* instance of Paint.NET to open multiple
files?

You don't want multiple instances of the editor for a whole bunch of
reasons, not the least of which is that the settings won't take between
sessions.
  #24  
Old September 21st 18, 04:03 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Arlen H. Holder
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 33
Default Why when I select pictures 1 to 10, does Paint.NET order them capriciously?

On Fri, 21 Sep 2018 09:32:12 -0400, Wolf K wrote:

Frankly, I don't see it as an issue either. If I need the list (ant
list, anywhere) in some specified order, there are lots of ways to do
it, depending on context. Most of the time it's irrelevant.


Sometimes you act like an adult, Wolf, and other times you don't.
I always mirror your attitude, as you're well aware.

This time you acted like an adult, and you didn't slip in snide remarks
like Mayayana did, which revealed his true intent - which is why I
responded to him as I did (since I always mirror intent).

I explained to Mayayana why it matters *greatly*.

The answer is that I write tutorials all the time, as you are well aware,
so I don't have to prove that to you.

I also annotate those tutorials with real-world screenshots, as you are
also well aware.

You may not be aware that every screenshot looks the same, when it's in a
teeny tiny thumbnail view, which is how it shows up in Paint.NET by
default.

If I snap, say, 40 screenshots, and then I edit all 40 files, I want them
to be in the order that I snapped them. That simply makes sense since I
edit them in sequence.

Again, all thumbnails of the desktop look pretty much the same, especially
when you're hitting a menu or changing a setting, or selecting a context
menu entry, or whatever the screenshot is showing.

Does this make any sense to you?
It makes perfect sense to me, where, to me, it's *obvious* why it's needed.

Maybe you (and Mayayana) don't write as many tutorials as I do perhaps?
Or, maybe you just don't edit as many screenshots as I do, perhaps?

Nonetheless, even if you don't, I would think the need super *obvious*.

So what difference does it make for you? In what context(s)?


The context is so super obvious that it's hard for me to tell you anything
more than what any person who edits screenshots in sequence would
*instantly* know the very first time they tried it.

It's like me telling you how to ride a bike if you've never ridden one.

If you ever edited a score or more of screenshots, and then you were
confronted with a mishmash of thumbnails, you'd *instantly* realize why the
need to have them in order.

Thank you for acting like an adult.
You'll note that I tactically mirror perceived intent in all responses.
I do that for strategic reasons (to encourage you to act like an adult).

Hence I appreciate your purposefully helpful intent.
--
PS: In my prior response to Mayayaa, I used "whom" incorrectly.
I apologize for my faux pas.
  #25  
Old September 21st 18, 04:17 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Arlen H. Holder
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Posts: 33
Default Why when I select pictures 1 to 10, does Paint.NET order them capriciously?

On 21 Sep 2018 14:09:49 GMT, Frank Slootweg wrote:

IIRC, you strip the EXIF information from your JPEGs. As a test,
create a few .jpg files *with* the EXIF information intact and see if
*they* come out in order in Paint.NET.


Thank you Frank Slootweg for your purposefully helpful adult post.

You may be on to something, in that EXIF information is certainly stored
inside of some JPEG files.

You are correct that Paint.NET adds EXIF information to any files saved as
JPEGs, and that I use Irfanview to strip out that EXIF information after
the fact (it's just an advertisement for Paint.NET that they put in the
EXIF tags, so it's unrelated to the date EXIF information).

However, that stripping of EXIF information happens only after the edits.

In this case, the snapshots are all done with the Windows+PrintScreen
button, which snaps a PNG file of the entire screen in a named sequence of
"Screenshot (739).png", "Screenshot (740).png", etc.

I don't know if there is a way to get "Windows+PrintScreen" to snapshot a
JPEG file instead of a PNG file, so that I can run a test of what you
suggested.

Googling, it doesn't appear to be possible:
https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_8-desktop/how-to-change-print-screen-to-default-in-jpg

Of course, it's possible to snap a JPG screenshot with other editors, for
example, Greenshot, but not with Windows+PrintScreen (apparently):
http://getgreenshot.org/
  #26  
Old September 21st 18, 07:34 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Frank Slootweg
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Posts: 1,226
Default Why when I select pictures 1 to 10, does Paint.NET order them capriciously?

Arlen Holder wrote:
Why when I select pictures 1 to 10, does Paint.NET order them capriciously?

Knowing Microsoft orders files funny when you name then file1 or file01, I
named a bunch of screenshots ant001, ant002, ... ant009 using Irfanview
batch renaming commands.

In Windows file explorer, I selected the first file ant001:
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=686...mbertest01.jpg

And then held down the shift key to select the last file, ant009, which
selects all nine files.
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=890...mbertest02.jpg

I right click on any one of them to "Edit with Paint.NET":
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=700...mbertest03.jpg


Hmmm!? Is it possible that this is yet another part of Windows 10 which
is broken?

I'm saying this because I tried to reproduce your problem on my
Windows 8.1 system, but if you select *multiple* files, the right-click
menu no longer offers the Open, Open with ..., Edit [...], etc. choices.
So this must be new functionality in Windows 10.

But when Paint.NET comes up, they're in a seemingly capricious order.
ant008, ant005, ant003, ant006, ant009, ant004, ant002, and007, and001
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=731...mbertest04.jpg


[...]
  #27  
Old September 21st 18, 08:35 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Arlen H. Holder
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Posts: 33
Default Why when I select pictures 1 to 10, does Paint.NET order them capriciously?

On Fri, 21 Sep 2018 19:30:57 -0000 (UTC), Arlen H. Holder wrote:

Command name: Edit
Program path: "C:\Windows\system32\mspaint.exe" "%1"

I change that to:
Command name: Edit with Paint.NET
Program path: "C:\app\editor\pic\paintnet\PaintDotNet.exe" "%1"


Actually, I should update that tutorial since I no longer _change_ the
existing edit command. I simply _add_ a new edit command, as shown here.
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=4441161testofdos.jpg
  #28  
Old September 21st 18, 09:18 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Sjouke Burry[_2_]
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Posts: 275
Default Why when I select pictures 1 to 10, does Paint.NET order themcapriciously?

On 19-9-2018 4:15, Arlen Holder wrote:
Why when I select pictures 1 to 10, does Paint.NET order them capriciously?

Knowing Microsoft orders files funny when you name then file1 or file01, I
named a bunch of screenshots ant001, ant002, ... ant009 using Irfanview
batch renaming commands.

In Windows file explorer, I selected the first file ant001:
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=686...mbertest01.jpg

And then held down the shift key to select the last file, ant009, which
selects all nine files.
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=890...mbertest02.jpg

I right click on any one of them to "Edit with Paint.NET":
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=700...mbertest03.jpg

But when Paint.NET comes up, they're in a seemingly capricious order.
ant008, ant005, ant003, ant006, ant009, ant004, ant002, and007, and001
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=731...mbertest04.jpg

This capricious ordering happens day in and day out, no matter what, which
makes sequential screenshot editing a pain for no good reason (AFAIK).

Since I wish to edit them in sequence to document an Android to iOS file
transfer, I have to manually reorder them within Paint.NET.

What trick am I missing for loading them into Paint.NET in correct order?

NOTE: It's not a big deal with 9 files, but try this set of 400!

Why when I select pictures 1 to 10, does Paint.NET order them capriciously?

Maybe because the files in a directory are not particularly ordered.

A small test in a cmd window:

D:\gamedir/b LIST ACCORDING TO WINDOWS DIR COMMAND.
LOOKS ALPHABETIC.
antiwar.lnk
Beertruck.exe
bovinatr.exe
dblace.pif
DOMMELS.lnk
DOSGAMES.lnk
FABELS.lnk
ls.exe
MAHJONGG.lnk
old patience.lnk
puzzle1
puzzle2
puzzle3
puzzle4
pyramide.pif
SKI.EXE
SOKOBAN.lnk
Solitaire.lnk
Spider Solitaire.lnk
TETRIS bricks2000.lnk
Tetris.lnk



D:\gamels Linux list command.
This does not agree with th above listing.
There is a break in the ordering in the
middle column.

Beertruck.exe Solitaire.lnk s.exe
DOMMELS.lnk Spider Solitaire.lnk old patience.lnk
DOSGAMES.lnk TETRIS bricks2000.lnk puzzle1
FABELS.lnk Tetris.lnk puzzle2
MAHJONGG.lnk antiwar.lnk puzzle3
SKI.EXE bovinatr.exe puzzle4
SOKOBAN.lnk dblace.pif pyramide.pif
  #29  
Old September 21st 18, 10:52 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
nospam
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Posts: 4,718
Default Why when I select pictures 1 to 10, does Paint.NET order them capriciously?

In article , Sjouke Burry
wrote:


D:\gamels Linux list command.
This does not agree with th above listing.
There is a break in the ordering in the
middle column.

Beertruck.exe Solitaire.lnk s.exe
DOMMELS.lnk Spider Solitaire.lnk old patience.lnk
DOSGAMES.lnk TETRIS bricks2000.lnk puzzle1
FABELS.lnk Tetris.lnk puzzle2
MAHJONGG.lnk antiwar.lnk puzzle3
SKI.EXE bovinatr.exe puzzle4
SOKOBAN.lnk dblace.pif pyramide.pif


linux sorts capital letters sort before lower case letters.
  #30  
Old September 21st 18, 11:41 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Paul[_32_]
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Posts: 11,873
Default Why when I select pictures 1 to 10, does Paint.NET order themcapriciously?

Arlen H. Holder wrote:

How would you script a *single* instance of Paint.NET to open multiple
files?


The program developer can help with this.

They call it "single instance" here.

https://stackoverflow.com/questions/...tion-in-c-or-c

Paul
 




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