Conflicting lists. HOSTS file, missing or can't be edited, depending.

First, how important in Win10 are the files and etc subdirectory in
C:\windows\system32\drivers??

I get conflicting lists of what files I have. (When I was looking for
the best file manager, I tried several, and I'm glad I didn't delete
any.)

Total Commander, Multi-Commander, and Search Everything show that all
the files expected to be there are there.

Free Commander, Q-Dir, xplorer2, and PowerDesk 9, show that 412 of 419
are missing, compared to Total Commander and compared to the clone
partition (E. The clone was made less than a week ago, so if they
are missing, something would have had to have happened in the last week.

OTOH, Total Commander and Multi-Commander haven't been used for months,
so where did they get their list of files and directories? Also,
Search Everything gets used often, but yesterday when this first
started, it to SE quite a while to build its list of files. Today when I
rebooted, without the USB drive turned on, it took a little bit of time
to display its list, but HOSTS, one of the files in the ETC directory,
was still there.

More evidence that at least the ETC directory and the HOSTS files are
still there is that when i try to edit the file from the lists displayed
by Total Commander and Search Everything, it brings up the file! I can
make changes but I can't save them because it wants me to have
administrative priveleges, and that's how I first noticed this whole
problem. I started Notepad and navigated to HOSTS, but before I got
there, when I got to Drivers, there was no ETC directory listed, only
the en-US, he-IL, UMDF subdirectories and 2 files (gm.dls and
gmreadme.txt) instead of the 4 subdirectories (ETC is the other one) and
414 files listed in the two file managers that list all of the files.
So "Windows navigation" also shows that the files and directory are
missing.)

For a while I was going to use the clone and copy back all the missing
files and directory. but now I'm reluctant to even try that. Maybe I
will get hundreds of File already Exists, and Choose which Copy You
Want, and they will all match, but maybe something else will happen,
like when you save a file to protected area and it really saves it
somewhere else.

So what do you make of all this, where do I stand, and what if anything
should I do?


Also, I just paid for PowerDesk 9. For months they didn't mention win10
in their promotional page, and I read online that Avanquest and the
company they bought which I had trouble with twice, which they bought
and is now a subdivision, had stopped development because they had
trouble making it work in win10. ( And even now, when I use it to
rename a file, it works terribly. It blanks out the name so I can't
see what I'm typing. If I get it right, it works!) So maybe this is
something else they never got right, although I know no such stories
abou the other 3 file managers and I've been using xplorer2 for months
with no complaints except about its design, not its functioning.




PRIOR VERSION OF POST, plus relevant files appended:

Original post, how I discovered the problem, edited, in case I left
something out of the second version:

A reason to add a line to the HOSTS file arose, so I searched for it,
and when that was going slowly, I used Everything to find it.

It found 4 copies one in windows\system32\drivers\etc and one in WinSxS,
plus the same two in my clone.E:

I edited the one in C..\etc but it wouldnt' let me save it. I tried to
do the same for E: and even there it wouldnt' let me save it.

So I started Edit-Tab in administrative mode, and first I edited the one
in E: because I figured security would be lower. I saved it and then I
wanted to Save As the same file to C:

4) But I can't find it. I navigate to c:\windows\system32\drivers, and
instead of 4 directories and 400+ files, there are 3 directories (not
etc) and 2 file!!

But if I go back to Everything, it still shows, and I can still bring it
up from there in Notepad.

So I go to my file manager PowerDesk 9, and navigate there in C: and
it's not there, The files display just like in line 4) above.

I navigate to the same place in E: and everything is there.

So I dont' know if these files are essential for windows or not, so I'm
afraid to close windows. (But Win10 bogged down for the first time
since I've had it (8 months), and restarting windows worked fine) I
think maybe I should copy everything in System32\Drivers from E: to C:.
After all that's the purpose of a backup. But first I think I should
know if the files are there or not.

How can I tell if, for example, the protocol, networks, services, or
lmhosts file is in use? (The hosts file has nothing in it.)


----------
Here's the networks file (no extension). It looks important to me, but
it's missing from several file managers.

# Copyright (c) 1993-1999 Microsoft Corp.
#
# This file contains network name/network number mappings for
# local networks. Network numbers are recognized in dotted decimal form.
#
# Format:
#
# network name network number [aliases...] [#comment]
#
# For example:
#
# loopback 127
# campus 284.122.107
# london 284.122.108

loopback 127
--------------

Here's the protocol file.

# Copyright (c) 1993-2006 Microsoft Corp.
#
# This file contains the Internet protocols as defined by various
# RFCs. See http://www.iana.org/assignments/protocol-numbers
#
# Format:
#
# protocol name assigned number [aliases...] [#comment]

ip 0 IP # Internet protocol
icmp 1 ICMP # Internet control message protocol
ggp 3 GGP # Gateway-gateway protocol
tcp 6 TCP # Transmission control protocol
egp 8 EGP # Exterior gateway protocol
pup 12 PUP # PARC universal packet protocol
udp 17 UDP # User datagram protocol
hmp 20 HMP # Host monitoring protocol
xns-idp 22 XNS-IDP # Xerox NS IDP
rdp 27 RDP # "reliable datagram" protocol
ipv6 41 IPv6 # Internet protocol IPv6
ipv6-route 43 IPv6-Route # Routing header for IPv6
ipv6-frag 44 IPv6-Frag # Fragment header for IPv6
esp 50 ESP # Encapsulating security payload
ah 51 AH # Authentication header
ipv6-icmp 58 IPv6-ICMP # ICMP for IPv6
ipv6-nonxt 59 IPv6-NoNxt # No next header for IPv6
ipv6-opts 60 IPv6-Opts # Destination options for IPv6
rvd 66 RVD # MIT remote virtual disk
-----------------

lmhosts brings up some strange screen offering special editors, I think.

------------------------------

Here is the services file. Purpose is confusing to me but seems
important. Are these 5 files available to my windows session or not?

# Copyright (c) 1993-2004 Microsoft Corp.
#
# This file contains port numbers for well-known services defined by
IANA
#
# Format:
#
# service name port number/protocol [aliases...] [#comment]
#

echo 7/tcp
echo 7/udp
discard 9/tcp sink null
discard 9/udp sink null
systat 11/tcp users #Active users
systat 11/udp users #Active users
daytime 13/tcp
daytime 13/udp
qotd 17/tcp quote #Quote of the day
qotd 17/udp quote #Quote of the day
chargen 19/tcp ttytst source #Character generator
chargen 19/udp ttytst source #Character generator
ftp-data 20/tcp #FTP, data
ftp 21/tcp #FTP. control
ssh 22/tcp #SSH Remote Login
Protocol
telnet 23/tcp
smtp 25/tcp mail #Simple Mail
Transfer Protocol
time 37/tcp timserver
time 37/udp timserver
rlp 39/udp resource #Resource Location
Protocol
nameserver 42/tcp name #Host Name Server
nameserver 42/udp name #Host Name Server
nicname 43/tcp whois
domain 53/tcp #Domain Name Server
domain 53/udp #Domain Name Server
bootps 67/udp dhcps #Bootstrap Protocol
Server
bootpc 68/udp dhcpc #Bootstrap Protocol
Client
tftp 69/udp #Trivial File
Transfer
gopher 70/tcp
finger 79/tcp
http 80/tcp www www-http #World Wide Web
hosts2-ns 81/tcp #HOSTS2 Name Server
hosts2-ns 81/udp #HOSTS2 Name Server
kerberos 88/tcp krb5 kerberos-sec #Kerberos
kerberos 88/udp krb5 kerberos-sec #Kerberos
hostname 101/tcp hostnames #NIC Host Name
Server
iso-tsap 102/tcp #ISO-TSAP Class 0
rtelnet 107/tcp #Remote Telnet
Service
pop2 109/tcp postoffice #Post Office
Protocol - Version 2
pop3 110/tcp #Post Office
Protocol - Version 3
sunrpc 111/tcp rpcbind portmap #SUN Remote
Procedure Call
sunrpc 111/udp rpcbind portmap #SUN Remote
Procedure Call
auth 113/tcp ident tap #Identification
Protocol
uucp-path 117/tcp
sqlserv 118/tcp #SQL Services
nntp 119/tcp usenet #Network News
Transfer Protocol
ntp 123/udp #Network Time
Protocol
epmap 135/tcp loc-srv #DCE endpoint
resolution
epmap 135/udp loc-srv #DCE endpoint
resolution
netbios-ns 137/tcp nbname #NETBIOS Name
Service
netbios-ns 137/udp nbname #NETBIOS Name
Service
netbios-dgm 138/udp nbdatagram #NETBIOS Datagram
Service
netbios-ssn 139/tcp nbsession #NETBIOS Session
Service
imap 143/tcp imap4 #Internet Message
Access Protocol
sql-net 150/tcp
sqlsrv 156/tcp
pcmail-srv 158/tcp #PCMail Server
snmp 161/udp #SNMP
snmptrap 162/udp snmp-trap #SNMP trap
print-srv 170/tcp #Network PostScript
bgp 179/tcp #Border Gateway
Protocol
irc 194/tcp #Internet Relay Chat
Protocol
ipx 213/udp #IPX over IP
rtsps 322/tcp
rtsps 322/udp
mftp 349/tcp
mftp 349/udp
ldap 389/tcp #Lightweight
Directory Access Protocol
https 443/tcp MCom #HTTP over TLS/SSL
https 443/udp MCom #HTTP over TLS/SSL
microsoft-ds 445/tcp
microsoft-ds 445/udp
kpasswd 464/tcp # Kerberos (v5)
kpasswd 464/udp # Kerberos (v5)
isakmp 500/udp ike #Internet Key
Exchange
crs 507/tcp #Content Replication
System
crs 507/udp #Content Replication
System
exec 512/tcp #Remote Process
Execution
biff 512/udp comsat
login 513/tcp #Remote Login
who 513/udp whod
cmd 514/tcp shell
syslog 514/udp
printer 515/tcp spooler
talk 517/udp
ntalk 518/udp
efs 520/tcp #Extended File Name
Server
router 520/udp route routed
ulp 522/tcp
ulp 522/udp
timed 525/udp timeserver
tempo 526/tcp newdate
irc-serv 529/tcp
irc-serv 529/udp
courier 530/tcp rpc
conference 531/tcp chat
netnews 532/tcp readnews
netwall 533/udp #For emergency
broadcasts
uucp 540/tcp uucpd
klogin 543/tcp #Kerberos login
kshell 544/tcp krcmd #Kerberos remote
shell
dhcpv6-client 546/tcp #DHCPv6 Client
dhcpv6-client 546/udp #DHCPv6 Client
dhcpv6-server 547/tcp #DHCPv6 Server
dhcpv6-server 547/udp #DHCPv6 Server
afpovertcp 548/tcp #AFP over TCP
afpovertcp 548/udp #AFP over TCP
new-rwho 550/udp new-who
rtsp 554/tcp #Real Time Stream
Control Protocol
rtsp 554/udp #Real Time Stream
Control Protocol
remotefs 556/tcp rfs rfs_server
rmonitor 560/udp rmonitord
monitor 561/udp
nntps 563/tcp snntp #NNTP over TLS/SSL
nntps 563/udp snntp #NNTP over TLS/SSL
whoami 565/tcp
whoami 565/udp
ms-shuttle 568/tcp #Microsoft shuttle
ms-shuttle 568/udp #Microsoft shuttle
ms-rome 569/tcp #Microsoft rome
ms-rome 569/udp #Microsoft rome
http-rpc-epmap 593/tcp #HTTP RPC Ep Map
http-rpc-epmap 593/udp #HTTP RPC Ep Map
hmmp-ind 612/tcp #HMMP Indication
hmmp-ind 612/udp #HMMP Indication
hmmp-op 613/tcp #HMMP Operation
hmmp-op 613/udp #HMMP Operation
ldaps 636/tcp sldap #LDAP over TLS/SSL
doom 666/tcp #Doom Id Software
doom 666/udp #Doom Id Software
msexch-routing 691/tcp #MS Exchange Routing
msexch-routing 691/udp #MS Exchange Routing
kerberos-adm 749/tcp #Kerberos
administration
kerberos-adm 749/udp #Kerberos
administration
kerberos-iv 750/udp #Kerberos version IV
mdbs_daemon 800/tcp
mdbs_daemon 800/udp
ftps-data 989/tcp #FTP data, over
TLS/SSL
ftps 990/tcp #FTP control, over
TLS/SSL
telnets 992/tcp #Telnet protocol
over TLS/SSL
imaps 993/tcp #IMAP4 protocol over
TLS/SSL
ircs 994/tcp #IRC protocol over
TLS/SSL
pop3s 995/tcp spop3 #pop3 protocol over
TLS/SSL (was spop3)
pop3s 995/udp spop3 #pop3 protocol over
TLS/SSL (was spop3)
kpop 1109/tcp #Kerberos POP
nfsd-status 1110/tcp #Cluster status info
nfsd-keepalive 1110/udp #Client status info
nfa 1155/tcp #Network File Access
nfa 1155/udp #Network File Access
activesync 1034/tcp #ActiveSync
Notifications
phone 1167/udp #Conference calling
opsmgr 1270/tcp #Microsoft
Operations Manager
opsmgr 1270/udp #Microsoft
Operations Manager
ms-sql-s 1433/tcp
#Microsoft-SQL-Server
ms-sql-s 1433/udp
#Microsoft-SQL-Server
ms-sql-m 1434/tcp
#Microsoft-SQL-Monitor
ms-sql-m 1434/udp
#Microsoft-SQL-Monitor
ms-sna-server 1477/tcp
ms-sna-server 1477/udp
ms-sna-base 1478/tcp
ms-sna-base 1478/udp
wins 1512/tcp #Microsoft Windows
Internet Name Service
wins 1512/udp #Microsoft Windows
Internet Name Service
ingreslock 1524/tcp ingres
stt 1607/tcp
stt 1607/udp
l2tp 1701/udp #Layer Two Tunneling
Protocol
pptconference 1711/tcp
pptconference 1711/udp
pptp 1723/tcp #Point-to-point
tunnelling protocol
msiccp 1731/tcp
msiccp 1731/udp
remote-winsock 1745/tcp
remote-winsock 1745/udp
ms-streaming 1755/tcp
ms-streaming 1755/udp
msmq 1801/tcp #Microsoft Message
Queue
msmq 1801/udp #Microsoft Message
Queue
radius 1812/udp #RADIUS
authentication protocol
radacct 1813/udp #RADIUS accounting
protocol
msnp 1863/tcp
msnp 1863/udp
ssdp 1900/tcp
ssdp 1900/udp
close-combat 1944/tcp
close-combat 1944/udp
nfsd 2049/udp nfs #NFS server
knetd 2053/tcp #Kerberos
de-multiplexor
mzap 2106/tcp #Multicast-Scope
Zone Announcement Protocol
mzap 2106/udp #Multicast-Scope
Zone Announcement Protocol
qwave 2177/tcp #QWAVE
qwave 2177/udp #QWAVE Experiment
Port
directplay 2234/tcp #DirectPlay
directplay 2234/udp #DirectPlay
ms-olap3 2382/tcp #Microsoft OLAP 3
ms-olap3 2382/udp #Microsoft OLAP 3
ms-olap4 2383/tcp #Microsoft OLAP 4
ms-olap4 2383/udp #Microsoft OLAP 4
ms-olap1 2393/tcp #Microsoft OLAP 1
ms-olap1 2393/udp #Microsoft OLAP 1
ms-olap2 2394/tcp #Microsoft OLAP 2
ms-olap2 2394/udp #Microsoft OLAP 2
ms-theater 2460/tcp
ms-theater 2460/udp
wlbs 2504/tcp #Microsoft Windows
Load Balancing Server
wlbs 2504/udp #Microsoft Windows
Load Balancing Server
ms-v-worlds 2525/tcp #Microsoft V-Worlds
ms-v-worlds 2525/udp #Microsoft V-Worlds
sms-rcinfo 2701/tcp #SMS RCINFO
sms-rcinfo 2701/udp #SMS RCINFO
sms-xfer 2702/tcp #SMS XFER
sms-xfer 2702/udp #SMS XFER
sms-chat 2703/tcp #SMS CHAT
sms-chat 2703/udp #SMS CHAT
sms-remctrl 2704/tcp #SMS REMCTRL
sms-remctrl 2704/udp #SMS REMCTRL
msolap-ptp2 2725/tcp #MSOLAP PTP2
msolap-ptp2 2725/udp #MSOLAP PTP2
icslap 2869/tcp
icslap 2869/udp
cifs 3020/tcp
cifs 3020/udp
xbox 3074/tcp #Microsoft Xbox game
port
xbox 3074/udp #Microsoft Xbox game
port
ms-dotnetster 3126/tcp #Microsoft .NET ster
port
ms-dotnetster 3126/udp #Microsoft .NET ster
port
ms-rule-engine 3132/tcp #Microsoft Business
Rule Engine Update Service
ms-rule-engine 3132/udp #Microsoft Business
Rule Engine Update Service
msft-gc 3268/tcp #Microsoft Global
Catalog
msft-gc 3268/udp #Microsoft Global
Catalog
msft-gc-ssl 3269/tcp #Microsoft Global
Catalog with LDAP/SSL
msft-gc-ssl 3269/udp #Microsoft Global
Catalog with LDAP/SSL
ms-cluster-net 3343/tcp #Microsoft Cluster
Net
ms-cluster-net 3343/udp #Microsoft Cluster
Net
ms-wbt-server 3389/tcp #MS WBT Server
ms-wbt-server 3389/udp #MS WBT Server
ms-la 3535/tcp #Microsoft Class
Server
ms-la 3535/udp #Microsoft Class
Server
pnrp-port 3540/tcp #PNRP User Port
pnrp-port 3540/udp #PNRP User Port
teredo 3544/tcp #Teredo Port
teredo 3544/udp #Teredo Port
p2pgroup 3587/tcp #Peer to Peer
Grouping
p2pgroup 3587/udp #Peer to Peer
Grouping
ws-discovery 3702/udp #WS-Discovery
ws-discovery 3702/tcp #WS-Discovery
dvcprov-port 3776/tcp #Device Provisioning
Port
dvcprov-port 3776/udp #Device Provisioning
Port
msfw-control 3847/tcp #Microsoft Firewall
Control
msdts1 3882/tcp #DTS Service Port
sdp-portmapper 3935/tcp #SDP Port Mapper
Protocol
sdp-portmapper 3935/udp #SDP Port Mapper
Protocol
net-device 4350/tcp #Net Device
net-device 4350/udp #Net Device
ipsec-msft 4500/tcp #Microsoft IPsec
NAT-T
ipsec-msft 4500/udp #Microsoft IPsec
NAT-T
llmnr 5355/tcp #LLMNR
llmnr 5355/udp #LLMNR
wsd 5357/tcp #Web Services on
devices
wsd 5358/tcp #Web Services on
devices
rrac 5678/tcp #Remote Replication
Agent Connection
rrac 5678/udp #Remote Replication
Agent Connection
dccm 5679/tcp #Direct Cable
Connect Manager
dccm 5679/udp #Direct Cable
Connect Manager
ms-licensing 5720/tcp #Microsoft Licensing
ms-licensing 5720/udp #Microsoft Licensing
directplay8 6073/tcp #DirectPlay8
directplay8 6073/udp #DirectPlay8
man 9535/tcp #Remote Man Server
rasadv 9753/tcp
rasadv 9753/udp
imip-channels 11320/tcp #IMIP Channels Port
imip-channels 11320/udp #IMIP Channels Port
directplaysrvr 47624/tcp #Direct Play Server
directplaysrvr 47624/udp #Direct Play Server

micky wrote:
First, how important in Win10 are the files and etc subdirectory in
C:\windows\system32\drivers??

I get conflicting lists of what files I have. (When I was looking for
the best file manager, I tried several, and I'm glad I didn't delete
any.)


I'm going to snip, and not even read the rest of this rant.

File systems have permission models. The permission models
might have originally been intended to support multi-user
OSes (so Mary could not read Johns home directory).

You can set directories up so they can have attributes
like Hidden added to them. If you look at the Folder options,
there are tick boxes to show file extension, show hidden
stuff, show system files. Using the button at the top, you
can apply your newly liberating settings, to all the folders.

X Show hidden files and folders
_ Hide extensions for known file types
_ Hide protected operating system files (Recommended)

*No* Windows utility, lists all files. I keep thinking there
is one, and every time I test... I am disappointed. There
are good reasons to keep you out of System Volume Information.
There are quite a few files in there that can be harmless,
but there are also shadow files you should not touch.

These comments generally apply to NTFS, which has a permission
model, and causes most of the grief.

There is NFI.exe from Win2K days, which lists the contents
of $MFT and gives you your file list. It's missing some info
which would make the utility a lot more valuable on Win10.

nfi.exe C: my_C_list.txt

The Everything.exe tool from voidtools.com , uses the NTFS journals
to keep track of when new files arrive. It can do a bulk build of
its information store, by reading the $MFT. It can be alerted to new
files being created, by watching the Journal on NTFS. Everything doesn't
work (all that well) on FAT32, as FAT32 just doesn't have the same
kind of feature support on the OS. You can statically update the info
for a FAT32 partition, so that part works fine.

Everything -create-filelist my_D_list.txt "D:"

Most of the other stuff, including most of the Windows File Search
stuff, is going to miss more than those two utilities do.

You can use "attrib", to change attributes on some of the
older files which cause trouble. Many other problems are caused
by actual permissions,. Permissions can be inherited from the
directory above. Permissions also include ALLOW and DENY
capability. DENY is not considered "best practice" because
it can make soup out of your file system (make it very difficult
to figure out why you are denied access, when it's a setting
on a directory four levels up).

I cannot always explain for you, why something doesn't work.
I have my share of puzzles here. But, there is usually
an answer of some type, just sitting there for you to discover.
The "Properties" dialog is your friend.

And I have edited the HOSTS file, on multiple OSes.
"It must be easy" if I can figure it out :-)

In the past, I would have suggested a Linux LiveCD for
"guaranteed" access. However, I'm finding, as time goes on,
there are lots of limitations on Linux. For example, the other
day, I was not allowed to edit the filename, of a hardlinked
file. This was NTFS, one file handle pointed into WinSXS,
the other into System32, and when I tried to change the
System32 DLL filename, it said "operation not supported".
Just so you know you cannot go helter-skelter in there.

This is an example of me, listing a Windows partition using
a Linux LiveCD. I wanted a separate list for directories,
from my list of files. The partition I was working on,
had around 500 directories, and 8000 files. When an item sits
in /tmp. it must be copied (after the command finishes) to
a safe place. In this example, I could copy the output
immediately, back onto the /media/Win2K drive if I wanted.
The naming conventions change with time, so this example
is merely an illustration. Use the "df" command to see
the actual name of your mounted Windows partitions. They
mount when you click them.

find /media/WIN2K -type d -exec ls -al -1 -d {} + /tmp/directories.txt
find /media/WIN2K -type f -exec ls -al -1 {} + /tmp/filelist.txt

Paul

micky wrote:

First, how important in Win10 are the files and etc subdirectory in
C:\windows\system32\drivers??

If you screw with the contents, you'll find they can be very important,
on most systems nowadays I guess those files never get edited, you need
to run e.g. notepad with admin rights to be able to save your changes.

Free Commander, Q-Dir, xplorer2, and PowerDesk 9, show that 412 of 419
are missing

There should only be 5 files in system32\drivers\etc (hosts,
lmhosts.sam, networks, protocol and services) the lmhosts.sam file is
just a template and not important unless you rename it to lmhosts

As for the files in system32\driver, that's going to vary between
systems, though they'll have a lot in common.

where do I stand, and what if anything should I do?

Can I suggest you get a completely disposable system to do your
tinkering on? Then you can harmlessly nuke it every time you break
something :-P

On Sat, 04 Feb 2017 13:56:24 -0500, micky
wrote:

It found 4 copies one in windows\system32\drivers\etc and one in WinSxS,
plus the same two in my clone.E:

I edited the one in C..\etc but it wouldnt' let me save it. I tried to
do the same for E: and even there it wouldnt' let me save it.

Your antivirus probably won't allow you to write to the hosts
file.
Try uninstalling it.
[]'s
--
Don't be evil - Google 2004
We have a new policy - Google 2012

In message , Paul
writes:
[]
files being created, by watching the Journal on NTFS. Everything doesn't
work (all that well) on FAT32, as FAT32 just doesn't have the same
kind of feature support on the OS. You can statically update the info
for a FAT32 partition, so that part works fine.

Everything -create-filelist my_D_list.txt "D:"

Most of the other stuff, including most of the Windows File Search
stuff, is going to miss more than those two utilities do.

The one time I tried it, Everything didn't work at all on a FAT
partition (FAT32 I think it was); it didn't give any error message or
anything, just didn't find anything.
[]
I cannot always explain for you, why something doesn't work.

No, and we don't expect you to - but you explain a lot more than most
people! I often mark a Paul post as "keep".
[]
And I have edited the HOSTS file, on multiple OSes.
"It must be easy" if I can figure it out :-)

(Assuming that's the one with no extension, that originally was intended
to provide a sort of local DNS [but is mostly used these days to block
access to web addresses by pointing them to local], then I can just
about understand it too.)

In the past, I would have suggested a Linux LiveCD for
"guaranteed" access. However, I'm finding, as time goes on,
there are lots of limitations on Linux. For example, the other

(-:
[]
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

A dishwasher is rubbish at making treacle sponge. - Marjorie in UMRA, 2017-1-15

In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Sat, 04 Feb 2017 19:24:52 -0200, Shadow
wrote:

On Sat, 04 Feb 2017 13:56:24 -0500, micky
wrote:

It found 4 copies one in windows\system32\drivers\etc and one in WinSxS,
plus the same two in my clone.E:

I edited the one in C..\etc but it wouldnt' let me save it. I tried to
do the same for E: and even there it wouldnt' let me save it.

Your antivirus probably won't allow you to write to the hosts
file.
Try uninstalling it.
[]'s

That's a good idea, but first I tried something else. Multi-commander,
one of the 3 programs that saw the file, has two panes and I opened one
to this file and the other to the clone, and copied it back. It
objected saying I needed to be an administrator, so I clicked on that
button, and again when the screen turned blue and had that big window
with Yes and No buttons in it. I said Yes, and then it did copy it.

I had tried opening an editor as an administrator, editing it, and
saving it, but I couldnt' even find the file that way.

Hosts was empty, and I only put in one more entry in the file that I'm
not even using yet, so if it can't be found, it doesn't matter, but I
would think the file protocol must be available to windows, even if 4
programs can't find it.

micky wrote:

In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Sat, 04 Feb 2017 19:24:52 -0200, Shadow
wrote:

On Sat, 04 Feb 2017 13:56:24 -0500, micky
wrote:

It found 4 copies one in windows\system32\drivers\etc and one in
WinSxS, plus the same two in my clone.E:

I edited the one in C..\etc but it wouldnt' let me save it. I
tried to do the same for E: and even there it wouldnt' let me
save it.

Your antivirus probably won't allow you to write to the hosts
file.
Try uninstalling it.
[]'s

That's a good idea, but first I tried something else.
Multi-commander, one of the 3 programs that saw the file, has two
panes and I opened one to this file and the other to the clone, and
copied it back. It objected saying I needed to be an administrator,
so I clicked on that button, and again when the screen turned blue
and had that big window with Yes and No buttons in it. I said Yes,
and then it did copy it.

I had tried opening an editor as an administrator, editing it, and
saving it, but I couldnt' even find the file that way.

Hosts was empty, and I only put in one more entry in the file that I'm
not even using yet, so if it can't be found, it doesn't matter, but I
would think the file protocol must be available to windows, even if 4
programs can't find it.

Micky,

The permissions for the etc directory are NOT inherited from the parent

directory.

This is done to keep the files protected.

You can change the effective permissions for that directory but it is

not recommended. The protocol and services file are used (among other

things)to configure a client to connect to a Host system. I frequently

use them to configure a client to connect to a UNIX System.

I found the easiest way to edit these files is to copy the file

(Services for example) to the desktop and edit it. I then rename the

original file to service1 and copy my edited file back to the etc

directory. That being said, I doubt you are running any program that

uses anything in the etc directory except the Host file.

HTH

JT

--

In article
micky wrote:

First, how important in Win10 are the files and etc subdirectory in
C:\windows\system32\drivers??

I regularly wipe this directory. eGnerally it contains old stuff.
On the next reboot, Windows repopulates with the current files.

I hate deadwood. This is just another folder for cache and temp
files.

In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Sun, 5 Feb 2017 01:04:26 +0000 (UTC), "JT"
wrote:

micky wrote:

In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Sat, 04 Feb 2017 19:24:52 -0200, Shadow
wrote:

On Sat, 04 Feb 2017 13:56:24 -0500, micky
wrote:

It found 4 copies one in windows\system32\drivers\etc and one in
WinSxS, plus the same two in my clone.E:

I edited the one in C..\etc but it wouldnt' let me save it. I
tried to do the same for E: and even there it wouldnt' let me
save it.

Your antivirus probably won't allow you to write to the hosts
file.
Try uninstalling it.
[]'s

That's a good idea, but first I tried something else.
Multi-commander, one of the 3 programs that saw the file, has two
panes and I opened one to this file and the other to the clone, and
copied it back. It objected saying I needed to be an administrator,
so I clicked on that button, and again when the screen turned blue
and had that big window with Yes and No buttons in it. I said Yes,
and then it did copy it.

I had tried opening an editor as an administrator, editing it, and
saving it, but I couldnt' even find the file that way.

Hosts was empty, and I only put in one more entry in the file that I'm
not even using yet, so if it can't be found, it doesn't matter, but I
would think the file protocol must be available to windows, even if 4
programs can't find it.

Micky,

The permissions for the etc directory are NOT inherited from the parent
directory.

Okay.

This is done to keep the files protected.

I know.

You can change the effective permissions for that directory but it is
not recommended.

And I would avoid doing it.

The protocol and services file are used (among other
things)to configure a client to connect to a Host system. I frequently
use them to configure a client to connect to a UNIX System.
I found the easiest way to edit these files is to copy the file
(Services for example) to the desktop and edit it. I then rename the
original file to service1 and copy my edited file back to the etc
directory.

That's a good idea. It's pretty much what I did when I edited the
matching file in the clone and copied that back to the etc directory

But none of this explains why 3 programs could see the etc directory and
the hosts file, and 5 programs could not. (I guess I'm counting
something, windows explorer or whatever part of windows navigates to a
file, as a program since when I try to navigate to the directory, the
screen looks a lot like windows explorer.

The Permissions for All for the ETC directory allow Read and Execute,
List Folder Contents, and Read.

The Permissions for All for the hosts file allow Read and Execute, and
Read. ** It doesn't include List Folder Contents because it's not a
folder ;=)


**Oh, I get it now. I looked in Advanced again and the first line for
etc was Trusted Installer, and it has Full Control. So does System.
That's why the files can be installed and uninstalled by the
installation program, and why copying one version of the file to
another will work when editing it and saving it won't work. I knew
there had to be something like tis but the last time I looked at this
screen it didn't sink in.

Hosts has many fewer lines and only SYSTEM and Administrators
(Owner-PC\Administrators) have full control.

But none of this either explains why 3 programs could see the etc
directory and the hosts file, and 5 programs could not.

That being said, I doubt you are running any program that
uses anything in the etc directory except the Host file.

I wasn't, and it turns out there's an easier way to do it, but if I
wanted to have a name instead of just a number for 127.0.0.2 and so
forth, I could put an entry in the hosts file. But it was quicker to
just put 127.0.0.2 in my Forte Agent settings.

So that calls to stunnel from Forte Agent could be distinguished by
stunnel from calls from Eudora. I need stunnel for Agent because v.
1.93 doesn't have SSL, and for Eudora because it doesn't know how to
accept the new style, I think it is, of certificates, and gmail changes
their cerficates about once a week. (Other companies change their
certificates every 1 to 5 years so it's no effort to accept them.) And
I'm getting tired of changing certs every week so I'm going to use
stunnel to take care of that.

HTH

Yes, it does.

JT

On Sun, 05 Feb 2017 00:35:23 -0500, micky
wrote:

I haven't been using localhost or 127,0 so I don't know how well its
handled, but see my next comment.

You use "localhost" all the time....
I comment out the line for IPV6.
[]'s
--
Don't be evil - Google 2004
We have a new policy - Google 2012

In microsoft.public.windowsxp.general, on Sun, 05 Feb 2017 07:00:48
-0200, Shadow wrote:

On Sun, 05 Feb 2017 00:35:23 -0500, micky
wrote:

I haven't been using localhost or 127,0 so I don't know how well its
handled, but see my next comment.

You use "localhost" all the time....

Well, if so, it's working. But don't be so cryptic. Where do I use it?

I comment out the line for IPV6.
[]'s

On 04/02/2017 18:56, micky wrote:
First, how important in Win10 are the files and etc subdirectory in
C:\windows\system32\drivers??


Why not delete the folders and see if they are important or not. Worth a
try stupid idiot Micky Mouse!!!.




--
With over 500 million devices now running Windows 10, customer
satisfaction is higher than any previous version of windows.

micky wrote:

Shadow wrote:

You use "localhost" all the time....

Well, if so, it's working. But don't be so cryptic. Where do I use it?

Every time you visit a website, or make any TCP/IP connection, windows
will look in hosts to see if there's an entry there for the host you're
connecting to, before doing a DNS query if it's not.

micky wrote:
In microsoft.public.windowsxp.general, on Sun, 05 Feb 2017 07:00:48
-0200, Shadow wrote:

On Sun, 05 Feb 2017 00:35:23 -0500, micky
wrote:

I haven't been using localhost or 127,0 so I don't know how well its
handled, but see my next comment.
You use "localhost" all the time....

Well, if so, it's working. But don't be so cryptic. Where do I use it?

OK, article.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Localhost

"Name resolution

IPv4 network standards reserve the entire 127.0.0.0/8
address block for loopback purposes. That means any packet
sent to one of those 16,777,214 addresses (127.0.0.1 through
127.255.255.254) is looped back. IPv6 has just a single address, ::1.
"

Now, imagine you just installed your own IIS web server
on your own machine. Now, you want to test it. How do you
test it ? That the server is bound to port 80 ? You
would load this into Firefox.

http://localhost/index.html
http://127.0.0.1/index.html

That's an example of using a network aware method, purely
locally on the machine (web client Firefox and web server
IIS, talk to each other without the packet going through
the NIC chip).

You have an RPC (Remote Procedure Call) service on the machine,
even if the network cable is disconnected. Why ? So network
aware applications can resolve both the client and server
roles locally. It allows an RPC service, to service both
local and remote requests, and when someone writes code,
they can be assured there is a means for it to work properly
in both cases.

Even if a computer never ever had the network cable connected,
calls still need the services of RPC. An RPC that revolves
around the concept of localhost.

*******

And there's more to loopback than that, in engineering.
There is local loopback and remote loopback. They are
used to "verify the wires work" on networking devices.

RX ------\ -----------------------\------ Tx
| |
TX ------/ ----------------------/ ----- RX

So the idea is, there can be protocols in place, that loop
the communication just before it reaches the other end.
And this allows verifying the wires are working. You can
have protocols in place, so the two ends take turns buzzing
out the wiring. This can be used on fiber optic networks.

If we were to add "localhost" to that diagram, it's to the
right and left of the hardware. Localhost loops things before
it hits the hardware.

RX ------\ -----------------------\------ Tx
| |
TX ------/ ----------------------/ ----- RX
^ ^
| |
Localhost Localhost
Computer #1 Computer #2

Paul

In microsoft.public.windowsxp.general, on Sun, 05 Feb 2017 14:25:03
-0500, Paul wrote:

micky wrote:
In microsoft.public.windowsxp.general, on Sun, 05 Feb 2017 07:00:48
-0200, Shadow wrote:

On Sun, 05 Feb 2017 00:35:23 -0500, micky
wrote:

I haven't been using localhost or 127,0 so I don't know how well its

This was a mistake. Of course I'm using 127, but I haven't been using
locahost. I don't know if that gets Shadow off the hook or not.

handled, but see my next comment.
You use "localhost" all the time....

Because here he doesn't refer to 127 but specifically to localhost.

Well, if so, it's working. But don't be so cryptic. Where do I use it?

OK, article.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Localhost

"Name resolution

IPv4 network standards reserve the entire 127.0.0.0/8
address block for loopback purposes. That means any packet
sent to one of those 16,777,214 addresses (127.0.0.1 through
127.255.255.254) is looped back. IPv6 has just a single address, ::1.
"

I grant that I use 127.0.0.1, but how does that mean I use localhost.
In places I've seen I used the number. Localhost is just an easier to
remember name that has to be translated to the number anyhow.

Now, imagine you just installed your own IIS web server

But I don't have my own IIS web server and he said I was using it now

on your own machine. Now, you want to test it. How do you
test it ? That the server is bound to port 80 ? You
would load this into Firefox.

http://localhost/index.html
http://127.0.0.1/index.html

That's an example of using a network aware method, purely
locally on the machine (web client Firefox and web server
IIS, talk to each other without the packet going through
the NIC chip).

You have an RPC (Remote Procedure Call) service on the machine,
even if the network cable is disconnected. Why ? So network
aware applications can resolve both the client and server
roles locally. It allows an RPC service, to service both
local and remote requests, and when someone writes code,
they can be assured there is a means for it to work properly
in both cases.

Even if a computer never ever had the network cable connected,
calls still need the services of RPC. An RPC that revolves
around the concept of localhost.

*******

And there's more to loopback than that, in engineering.
There is local loopback and remote loopback. They are
used to "verify the wires work" on networking devices.

RX ------\ -----------------------\------ Tx
| |
TX ------/ ----------------------/ ----- RX

So the idea is, there can be protocols in place, that loop
the communication just before it reaches the other end.
And this allows verifying the wires are working. You can
have protocols in place, so the two ends take turns buzzing
out the wiring. This can be used on fiber optic networks.

If we were to add "localhost" to that diagram, it's to the
right and left of the hardware. Localhost loops things before
it hits the hardware.

RX ------\ -----------------------\------ Tx
| |
TX ------/ ----------------------/ ----- RX
^ ^
| |
Localhost Localhost
Computer #1 Computer #2

Paul