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#16
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Microsoft updates Windows without users' consent
This is getting to be as bad as all those worried about all the electrons
being wasted by double posting. "Curt Christianson" wrote in message ... The sky is falling!! -- Curt Windows Support Center www.aumha.org Practically Nerded,... http://dundats.mvps.org/Index.htm "Kevin Brunt (Fat Baztard)" wrote in message ... | | This is just the pratice run. Next time MS will also try disabling any | systems it thinks is using pirated software!! Watch the space!!! |
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#17
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Microsoft updates Windows without users' consent
"Kevin Brunt (Fat Baztard)" wrote in message
... | | This is just the pratice run. Next time MS will also try disabling any | systems it thinks is using pirated software!! Watch the space!!! Actually, they already can. One of the big "improvements" with Vista is that it gives Microsoft the ability to disable hardware drivers and whole systems that it feels is not appropriate for use. In other words, they could detect that you have Alcohol 120% on your system and shut you down. |
#18
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Microsoft updates Windows without users' consent
Adam Albright wrote:
Me anti Microsoft? Totally! Hardly as I've said many times I wouldn't be a stockholder in a company I don't like. Don't make me laugh! I simply wish they would clean up their act. Start with yourself! What I find fascinating is how fanboys automatically stick their heads in the sand and just ignore all the failings in Vista and the anti-customer stance Microsoft has had since say one. Still can't get that one little in place (bad move!) upgrade install of Vista business to run correctly, huh? So blame MS for your stupidity and incompetence right? As far as any EULA, they are like the fine print on insurance polices. NOBODY reads them or for that matter could understand half the double talk contained there in. Especially a village idiot like you! Frank |
#19
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Microsoft updates Windows without users' consent
On Thu, 13 Sep 2007 13:46:09 -0600, Bruce Chambers
wrote: Adam Albright wrote: As far as any EULA, they are like the fine print on insurance polices. NOBODY reads them or for that matter could understand half the double talk contained there in. "Nobody?" What planet do you live on? I read every contract I'm asked to sign. I seek legal advice for any portions I don't understand. Sure right, next thing you'll try to tell us is you count the paper clips in each box to make sure there's a 100 and of course your count the issues on each roll of toilet paper to be sure there are a 1,000. Don't you? Are you saying that the *everyone* is too stupid or too lazy to look out for their own interests? And I though I had a dim view of the general public. I have a dim view of FANBODYS because they proved themselves to be total idiots judging the crap they post to this goofy newsgroup. You obviously are no exception to that rule. Regardless, the signer's not having bothered to read a contract doesn't make that contract any less binding. Hey bub, trying to play attorney now? A EULA technically isn't a contract and it's legal weight has yet to be tested in the courts. Again you being just a moronic fanboy immediately accept whatever crap Microsoft shovels your way as gospel. Oh, and the Windows EULA is written at what I'd consider an 8th grade (A 1960's era American public school 8th grade, that is; probably closer to today's high school level, now. Nevertheless the average McDonalds burger-flipper should have no trouble with it.) reading level. It's not at all confusing to the functionally literate. Oh please... a document can be written at a fourth grade level and still be deliberately misleading, vague and contradictory. |
#20
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Microsoft updates Windows without users' consent
Relax, It's Only An Updated Version Of Windows Update, All Other Files Were
Left Unchanged, Just FYI. "Silicon neuron" wrote in message ... http://windowssecrets.com/comp/070913/#story1 By Scott Dunn Microsoft has begun patching files on Windows XP and Vista without users' knowledge, even when the users have turned off auto-updates. Many companies require testing of patches before they are widely installed, and businesses in this situation are objecting to the stealth patching. Files changed with no notice to users In recent days, Windows Update (WU) started altering files on users' systems without displaying any dialog box to request permission. The only files that have been reportedly altered to date are nine small executables on XP and nine on Vista that are used by WU itself. Microsoft is patching these files silently, even if auto-updates have been disabled on a particular PC. It's surprising that these files can be changed without the user's knowledge. The Automatic Updates dialog box in the Control Panel can be set to prevent updates from being installed automatically. However, with Microsoft's latest stealth move, updates to the WU executables seem to be installed regardless of the settings - without notifying users. When users launch Windows Update, Microsoft's online service can check the version of its executables on the PC and update them if necessary. What's unusual is that people are reporting changes in these files although WU wasn't authorized to install anything. This isn't the first time Microsoft has pushed updates out to users who prefer to test and install their updates manually. Not long ago, another Windows component, svchost.exe, was causing problems with Windows Update, as last reported on June 21 in the Windows Secrets Newsletter. In that case, however, the Windows Update site notified users that updated software had to be installed before the patching process could proceed. This time, such a notice never appears. For users who elect not to have updates installed automatically, the issue of consent is crucial. Microsoft has apparently decided, however, that it doesn't need permission to patch Windows Updates files, even if you've set your preferences to require it. Microsoft provides no tech information - yet To make matters even stranger, a search on Microsoft's Web site reveals no information at all on the stealth updates. Let's say you wished to voluntarily download and install the new WU executable files when you were, for example, reinstalling a system. You'd be hard-pressed to find the updated files in order to download them. At this writing, you either get a stealth install or nothing. A few Web forums have already started to discuss the updated files, which bear the version number 7.0.6000.381. The only explanation found at Microsoft's site comes from a user identified as Dean-Dean on a Microsoft Communities forum. In reply to a question, he states: "Windows Update Software 7.0.6000.381 is an update to Windows Update itself. It is an update for both Windows XP and Windows Vista. Unless the update is installed, Windows Update won't work, at least in terms of searching for further updates. Normal use of Windows Update, in other words, is blocked until this update is installed." Windows Secrets contributing editor Susan Bradley contacted Microsoft Partner Support about the update and received this short reply: "7.0.6000.381 is a consumer only release that addresses some specific issues found after .374 was released. It will not be available via WSUS [Windows Server Update Services]. A standalone installer and the redist will be available soon, I will keep an eye on it and notify you when it is available." Unfortunately, this reply does not explain why the stealth patching began with so little information provided to customers. Nor does it provide any details on the "specific issues" that the update supposedly addresses. System logs confirm stealth installs In his forum post, Dean-Dean names several files that are changed on XP and Vista. The patching process updates several Windows\System32 executables (with the extensions .exe, .dll, and .cpl) to version 7.0.6000.381, according to the post. In Vista, the following files are updated: 1. wuapi.dll 2. wuapp.exe 3. wuauclt.exe 4. wuaueng.dll 5. wucltux.dll 6. wudriver.dll 7. wups.dll 8. wups2.dll 9. wuwebv.dll In XP, the following files are updated: 1. cdm.dll 2. wuapi.dll 3. wuauclt.exe 4. wuaucpl.cpl 5. wuaueng.dll 6. wucltui.dll 7. wups.dll 8. wups2.dll 9. wuweb.dll These files are by no means viruses, and Microsoft appears to have no malicious intent in patching them. However, writing files to a user's PC without notice (when auto-updating has been turned off) is behavior that's usually associated with hacker Web sites. The question being raised in discussion forums is, "Why is Microsoft operating in this way?" How to check which version your PC has If a system has been patched in the past few months, the nine executables in Windows\System32 will either show an earlier version number, 7.0.6000.374, or the stealth patch: 7.0.6000.381. (The version numbers can be seen by right-clicking a file and choosing Properties. In XP, click the Version tab and then select File Version. In Vista, click the Details tab.) In addition, PCs that received the update will have new executables in subfolders named 7.0.6000.381 under the following folders: c:\Windows\System32\SoftwareDistribution\Setup\Ser viceStartup\wups.dll c:\Windows\System32\SoftwareDistribution\Setup\Ser viceStartup\wups2.dll Users can also verify whether patching occurred by checking Windows' Event Log: Step 1. In XP, click Start, Run. Step 2. Type eventvwr.msc and press Enter. Step 3. In the tree pane on the left, select System. Step 4. The right pane displays events and several details about them. Event types such as "Installation" are labeled in the Category column. "Windows Update Agent" is the event typically listed in the Source column for system patches. On systems that were checked recently by Windows Secrets readers, the Event Log shows two installation events on Aug. 24. The files were stealth-updated in the early morning hours. (The time stamp will vary, of course, on machines that received the patch on other dates.) To investigate further, you can open the Event Log's properties for each event. Normally, when a Windows update event occurs, the properties dialog box shows an associated KB number, enabling you to find more information at Microsoft's Web site. Mysteriously, no KB number is given for the WU updates that began in August. The description merely reads, "Installation Successful: Windows successfully installed the following update: Automatic Updates." No need to roll back the updated files Again, it's important to note that there's nothing harmful about the updated files themselves. There are no reports of software conflicts and no reason to remove the files (which WU apparently needs in order to access the latest patches). The only concern is the mechanism Microsoft is using to perform its patching, and how this mechanism might be used by the software giant in the future. I'd like to thank reader Angus Scott-Fleming for his help in researching this topic. He recommends that advanced Windows users monitor changes to their systems' Registry settings via a free program by Olivier Lombart called Tiny Watcher. Scott-Fleming will receive a gift certificate for a book, CD, or DVD of his choice for sending in a comment we printed. I'll report further on this story when I'm able to find more information on the policies and techniques behind Windows Update's silent patches. Send me your tips on this subject via the Windows Secrets contact page. Scott Dunn is associate editor of the Windows Secrets Newsletter. He is also a contributing editor of PC World Magazine, where he has written a monthly column since 1992, and co-author of 101 Windows Tips & Tricks (Peachpit) with Jesse Berst and Charles Bermant. |
#21
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Microsoft updates Windows without users' consent
Adam Albright wrote:
Hey bub, trying to play attorney now? A EULA technically isn't a contract You're the idiot! The EULA is an agreement...an agreement is a legally binding contract. How fukkin dumb are you mr genius? Frank |
#22
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Microsoft updates Windows without users' consent
Noozer wrote:
In other words, they could detect that you have Alcohol 120% on your system and shut you down. Would that be like drunk driving! :-) Frank |
#23
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Microsoft updates Windows without users' consent
Adam Albright wrote:
Sure right, next thing you'll try to tell us is you count the paper clips in each box to make sure there's a 100 and of course your count the issues on each roll of toilet paper to be sure there are a 1,000. I used to do that. I bought a gross of condoms once, but there were only 143 in the box. When I complained to the pharmacist the next day, he gave me a free one along with the apology: "I'm sorry we spoiled your evening." |
#24
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Microsoft updates Windows without users' consent
I don't read anything in the EULA portions quoted below that indicates MS
has any right to install updates when one has explicitly opted out of them. Continuing on in section 7 the Vista EULA, .. Windows Update Feature. You may connect new hardware to your device. Your device may not have the drivers needed to communicate with that hardware. If so, the update feature of the software can obtain the correct driver from Microsoft and install it on your device. You can switch off this update feature. As a consumer, I would expect that if I do "...switch off this update feature", I expect it to stay switched off. Period. No quibbling. It's my computer. Val "Bruce Chambers" wrote in message ... Silicon neuron wrote: Microsoft has begun patching files on Windows XP and Vista without users' knowledge, even when the users have turned off auto-updates. Actually, this is *not* being done _without_ user consent. Just the opposite. Every user of each operating systems has been given advance notice that such things could happen, and has consented to it. Read the Vista EULA. Section 7 makes it clear that this could happen: ================================================== ====================== 7. INTERNET-BASED SERVICES. Microsoft provides Internet-based services with the software. It may *change* or cancel them at any time. a. Consent for Internet-Based Services. The software features described below and in the Windows Vista Privacy Statement connect to Microsoft or service provider computer systems over the Internet. *In some cases, you will not receive a separate notice when they connect.* You may switch off these features or not use them. For more information about these features, see the Windows Vista Privacy Statement at http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?linkid=20615. By using these features, you consent to the transmission of this information. Microsoft does not use the information to identify or contact you. ================================================== ====================== (Emphasis mine) The WinXP EULA also made this clear: ================================================== ====================== Internet-Based Services Components. The SOFTWARE contains components that enable and facilitate the use of certain Internet-based services. You acknowledge and agree that MS, Microsoft Corporation or their subsidiaries may automatically check the version of the SOFTWARE and/or its components that you are utilizing and may provide upgrades or supplements to the SOFTWARE that may be *automatically* downloaded to your COMPUTER. ================================================== ====================== (Again, emphasis mine) Do I approve of this practice? Not really. I'd prefer to know about each and every change as it happens, just on the off chance that, if a problem occurs, I've better information on which to base my troubleshooting. But I'm an exception; most people simply don't want to know about technical details of how the OS is working. -- Bruce Chambers Help us help you: http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. -Benjamin Franklin Many people would rather die than think; in fact, most do. -Bertrand Russell |
#25
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Microsoft updates Windows without users' consent
Val;
This is referring to the part that updates drivers and does not apply to other updates. -- Jupiter Jones [MVP] Windows Server System - Microsoft Update Services http://www3.telus.net/dandemar "Val" wrote in message ... I don't read anything in the EULA portions quoted below that indicates MS has any right to install updates when one has explicitly opted out of them. Continuing on in section 7 the Vista EULA, . Windows Update Feature. You may connect new hardware to your device. Your device may not have the drivers needed to communicate with that hardware. If so, the update feature of the software can obtain the correct driver from Microsoft and install it on your device. You can switch off this update feature. As a consumer, I would expect that if I do "...switch off this update feature", I expect it to stay switched off. Period. No quibbling. It's my computer. Val |
#26
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Microsoft updates Windows without users' consent
JJ,
It's the closest I see to anything refering to updates of the system files - the other parts of Section 7 (sounds like a mysterious quasi-governmental agency??) refer to various specific internet enabled features. My point is that nothing I can find in the EULA (I just read the whole darn thing) seems to state MS reserves the right to arbitrarily modify an end user's system. Would you want Ford to just walk into your garage and start tinkering with your car? Val "Jupiter Jones [MVP]" wrote in message ... Val; This is referring to the part that updates drivers and does not apply to other updates. -- Jupiter Jones [MVP] Windows Server System - Microsoft Update Services http://www3.telus.net/dandemar "Val" wrote in message ... I don't read anything in the EULA portions quoted below that indicates MS has any right to install updates when one has explicitly opted out of them. Continuing on in section 7 the Vista EULA, . Windows Update Feature. You may connect new hardware to your device. Your device may not have the drivers needed to communicate with that hardware. If so, the update feature of the software can obtain the correct driver from Microsoft and install it on your device. You can switch off this update feature. As a consumer, I would expect that if I do "...switch off this update feature", I expect it to stay switched off. Period. No quibbling. It's my computer. Val |
#27
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Microsoft updates Windows without users' consent
On Thu, 13 Sep 2007 17:46:39 -0700, Frank wrote:
Adam Albright wrote: Hey bub, trying to play attorney now? A EULA technically isn't a contract You're the idiot! The EULA is an agreement...an agreement is a legally binding contract. Explain to us how Microsoft KNOWS who clicked their mouse agreeing to the EULA which is the ONLY so-called "proof" anyone agreed to the terms of the license. Damn, Frank I know you're a real dim bulb, but even you should see the fatal flaw in such half-ass reasoning and to try to claim it becomes legally binding is laughable. Worse, Microsoft doesn't provide any written version of the EULA in the packaging Vista comes in and the only way you get to see it is if you begin the install process THEN nobody that sold Vista to you will take it back claiming it is "opened" software. Sounds like a catch 22 to me. Of course you being nothing but a moronic fanboy you probably wait on your porch every evening hoping you see a pig fly past. Lots of luck with that. |
#28
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Microsoft updates Windows without users' consent
On Thu, 13 Sep 2007 17:47:25 -0700, Frank wrote:
Noozer wrote: In other words, they could detect that you have Alcohol 120% on your system and shut you down. Would that be like drunk driving! :-) Frank You being a drunk would know. |
#29
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Microsoft updates Windows without users' consent
Paragraph 7 covers it.
As for "quasi-governmental agency", I don't see that at all. Consult an attorney specializing in software licensing if a definitive answer is needed. It is highly anyone responding here qualifies. "Would you want Ford to just walk into your garage..." Not relevant since there is no agreement that permits Ford to do that in my garage. -- Jupiter Jones [MVP] Windows Server System - Microsoft Update Services http://www3.telus.net/dandemar "Val" wrote in message ... JJ, It's the closest I see to anything refering to updates of the system files - the other parts of Section 7 (sounds like a mysterious quasi-governmental agency??) refer to various specific internet enabled features. My point is that nothing I can find in the EULA (I just read the whole darn thing) seems to state MS reserves the right to arbitrarily modify an end user's system. Would you want Ford to just walk into your garage and start tinkering with your car? Val |
#30
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Microsoft updates Windows without users' consent
Tim Slattery wrote:
Bruce Chambers wrote: "Nobody?" What planet do you live on? I read every contract I'm asked to sign. I seek legal advice for any portions I don't understand. Don't you? Are you saying that the *everyone* is too stupid or too lazy to look out for their own interests? And I though I had a dim view of the general public. Do you read every single EULA you run into? Do you have time to do anything else? And I guess he's recommending that anyone who doesn't understand each and every word of the EULA should seek legal advice before purchasing the software. Yeah, that'd work. -- Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. ....Philip K. Dick |
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