Another New Trick Under Windows 7/8

On Mon, 20 Jan 2014 15:44:50 -0800, Gene E. Bloch
wrote:

On 1/20/2014, Ken Blake posted:
On Sun, 19 Jan 2014 15:43:39 -0800, Gene E. Bloch
wrote:

On 1/19/2014, Ken Blake posted:
But I also typically have four or five other programs running, but
minimized, since they get used much less seldom. If they were
Typo! Should be "If they were *not*"
minimized, I'd have too many corners to keep track of.

But either way, you can be accused of cutting corners.


g


Actually, I realized what you meant and wasn't even going to
criticize you for the typo. Besides, if I did, it would be a
situation of pot - kettle - black.


Criticizing wasn't necessary, but pointing out a typo can be helpful,
lest someone else misread what was meant.

Well, as for 'criticism', I was joking, but your intent was so obvious
that I never even thought of posting a correction. But as you might be
implying, maybe that was an error in judgment on my part.


I understand, but in my view it never hurts to point out a typo. It
may help someone who otherwise would misunderstand.

On 1/20/2014, Ken Blake posted:
On Mon, 20 Jan 2014 15:44:50 -0800, Gene E. Bloch
wrote:

On 1/20/2014, Ken Blake posted:
On Sun, 19 Jan 2014 15:43:39 -0800, Gene E. Bloch
wrote:
On 1/19/2014, Ken Blake posted:
But I also typically have four or five other programs running,
but minimized, since they get used much less seldom. If they
were Typo! Should be "If they were *not*" minimized, I'd have
too many corners to keep track of.

But either way, you can be accused of cutting corners.


g


Actually, I realized what you meant and wasn't even going to
criticize you for the typo. Besides, if I did, it would be a
situation of pot - kettle - black.


Criticizing wasn't necessary, but pointing out a typo can be
helpful, lest someone else misread what was meant.

Well, as for 'criticism', I was joking, but your intent was so
obvious that I never even thought of posting a correction. But as
you might be implying, maybe that was an error in judgment on my
part.


I understand, but in my view it never hurts to point out a typo. It
may help someone who otherwise would misunderstand.

Like I said, "maybe that was an error in judgment on my part"...

--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)

On 1/20/2014 6:19 PM, Gene E. Bloch wrote:
One for the statisticians: I am not a newcomer to computing or to
Windows, and I like Aero. In fact, I was sorry to see it dropped from W8.

Aero is still here under Windows 8. In fact, unlike Windows 7, you can't
turn it off.

--
Bill
Motion Computing LE1700 Tablet ('09 era) - Thunderbird v12
Centrino Core2 Duo L7400 1.5GHz - 2GB RAM - Windows 8 Professional

On Mon, 20 Jan 2014 05:19:26 -0600, BillW50 wrote:

On 1/19/2014 8:58 PM, Char Jackson wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jan 2014 13:32:52 -0600, wrote:
I've always been able to focus on the thing that I'm working on. It doesn't
bother me a bit to have pieces of other windows partially showing behind the
active window. I don't 'see' that while I'm working. (Wolf K. probably knows
what I mean by that.)

I don't get confused with tons of windows opened. Its that I like tons
of desktop real estate. And virtual desktops is a very practical way of
getting an unlimited amount of it. And some applications are better with
the window using as much space as you can get. Things like browsers,
spreadsheets, drawing applications, videos, etc.

I still don't see the advantage of virtual desktops. Using a single desktop,
I can stack as many windows as I want on top of each other, with only the
topmost window visible and able to be worked on/in. Having to switch
desktops would only slow me down.

If one prefers to minimize and restore applications, virtual desktop is
a very fast way to this. And it is great for those pesky windows that
pop up that you can't close unless you click ok or reboot or something.
And there is no need to minimize anything. Just switch to another
desktop.

I don't remember ever seeing a window that I couldn't close.

Oh I run into them now and then. The majority of them pop up and wants
your immediate attention and often is a window that is always on top of
other windows and you can't hide it.

Windows 8 has a new one like that. Although instead of a window, it is a
blue horizontal bar and the rest of the screen dims. It stated that I
had to upgrade Windows 8 to 8.1 right now. And it wouldn't allow me to
do anything else until I hit proceed or whatever it wanted. So I was
forced to start the upgrade and then I could abort and get control of my
machine back.

Mine had a "Later" button that would put it to sleep for a day or two. I
think Esc also dismisses it. Besides, that's not a 'window'.

You don't use any of the Windows hotkeys? Not even Win+E or Win+R?

The only Windows hotkey that I use regularly is Win+L to lock my
workstation.

--

Char Jackson

On 1/21/2014 1:16 AM, Char Jackson wrote:
On Mon, 20 Jan 2014 05:19:26 -0600, wrote:

On 1/19/2014 8:58 PM, Char Jackson wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jan 2014 13:32:52 -0600, wrote:
I've always been able to focus on the thing that I'm working on. It doesn't
bother me a bit to have pieces of other windows partially showing behind the
active window. I don't 'see' that while I'm working. (Wolf K. probably knows
what I mean by that.)

I don't get confused with tons of windows opened. Its that I like tons
of desktop real estate. And virtual desktops is a very practical way of
getting an unlimited amount of it. And some applications are better with
the window using as much space as you can get. Things like browsers,
spreadsheets, drawing applications, videos, etc.

I still don't see the advantage of virtual desktops. Using a single desktop,
I can stack as many windows as I want on top of each other, with only the
topmost window visible and able to be worked on/in. Having to switch
desktops would only slow me down.

Actually clicking on a corner window or clicking on another desktop
takes the same amount of time. So nothing lost or gained. Although when
using the keyboard I can pop up the window I want with one hotkey with a
virtual desktop. Without a virtual desktop, I guess it is tougher to get
to the window you want from there.

You know, I see Windows 8 having a feature called "Show Windows Stacked"
when I right click on the Taskbar. I believe I have seen this with
Windows 7 too. Is this how you arrange your windows manually?

And you had stated that you don't understand the advantage of virtual
desktops? Well maybe we use our computers differently. Because I see a
ton of advantages. Although when I don't have a lot of windows open
(like you) I may not have a virtual desktop running.

Also with MS Desktops v2, it operates differently than most other
virtual desktops. As it opens multiple Windows Shells. And one of the
benefits for me is that one can have the Aston v2 Desktop and another
has the stock Windows Desktop. Very, very cool! And with another virtual
desktop, I can have many virtual desktops within a single virtual
desktop. What a concept!

If one prefers to minimize and restore applications, virtual desktop is
a very fast way to this. And it is great for those pesky windows that
pop up that you can't close unless you click ok or reboot or something.
And there is no need to minimize anything. Just switch to another
desktop.

I don't remember ever seeing a window that I couldn't close.

Oh I run into them now and then. The majority of them pop up and wants
your immediate attention and often is a window that is always on top of
other windows and you can't hide it.

Windows 8 has a new one like that. Although instead of a window, it is a
blue horizontal bar and the rest of the screen dims. It stated that I
had to upgrade Windows 8 to 8.1 right now. And it wouldn't allow me to
do anything else until I hit proceed or whatever it wanted. So I was
forced to start the upgrade and then I could abort and get control of my
machine back.

Mine had a "Later" button that would put it to sleep for a day or two. I
think Esc also dismisses it. Besides, that's not a 'window'.

There are lots of special key I use all of the time. For example, this
Logitech K400r has Windows 8 hotkeys. So no need to use the mouse to do
many things. But no matter what the OS version, I still use a lot of
these special feature keys. Like the later button (like you), vol
(up/down), mute, play/pause, etc.

You don't use any of the Windows hotkeys? Not even Win+E or Win+R?

The only Windows hotkey that I use regularly is Win+L to lock my
workstation.

Wow! Do you even use a file manager or ever run on command at all? Heck
just yesterday I found an easy command to instantly pop up the Windows 8
Send To folder "shell:sendto". Might work under Windows 7 too, I haven't
checked yet.

--
Bill
Motion Computing LE1700 Tablet ('09 era) - Thunderbird v12
Centrino Core2 Duo L7400 1.5GHz - 2GB RAM - Windows 8 Professional

In message , Char Jackson
writes:
On Mon, 20 Jan 2014 05:19:26 -0600, BillW50 wrote:
[]
Windows 8 has a new one like that. Although instead of a window, it is a
blue horizontal bar and the rest of the screen dims. It stated that I
had to upgrade Windows 8 to 8.1 right now. And it wouldn't allow me to
do anything else until I hit proceed or whatever it wanted. So I was
forced to start the upgrade and then I could abort and get control of my
machine back.

Mine had a "Later" button that would put it to sleep for a day or two. I
think Esc also dismisses it. Besides, that's not a 'window'.
[]
For practical purposes it is, in how we think of it.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

I long for the commercialised Christmas of the 1970s. It's got so religious
now, it's lost its true meaning. - Mike [{at}ostic.demon.co.uk], 2003-12-24

On 1/20/2014, Char Jackson posted:
I don't get confused with tons of windows opened. Its that I like
tons
of desktop real estate. And virtual desktops is a very practical
way of
getting an unlimited amount of it. And some applications are better
with
the window using as much space as you can get. Things like
browsers,
spreadsheets, drawing applications, videos, etc.

I still don't see the advantage of virtual desktops. Using a single
desktop,
I can stack as many windows as I want on top of each other, with only
the
topmost window visible and able to be worked on/in. Having to switch
desktops would only slow me down.

When running Unix & Linux in command line mode, back when that was the
only way to do it, it was very useful to have virtual desktops.

Of course, that's a misnomer when there was no desktop; they were
really virtual terminals.

One fun advantage of that was that you could edit the same file in two
different terminal windows, thus losing the changes made in one window
when later changes were saved over earlier changes. When I was doing
that, it took me an unconscionably long time to figure out why my
changes were disappearing :-)

--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)

On 1/20/2014, BillW50 posted:
On 1/20/2014 6:19 PM, Gene E. Bloch wrote:
One for the statisticians: I am not a newcomer to computing or to
Windows, and I like Aero. In fact, I was sorry to see it dropped
from W8.

Aero is still here under Windows 8. In fact, unlike Windows 7, you
can't turn it off.

Not in mine, but perhaps you have added third party software, such as
this:

http://tinyurl.com/o86k864

http://preview.tinyurl.com/o86k864 if you don't trust me :-)

From the Google hits, it's unclear to me whether 8.1 is different, but
I haven't explored that option in my 8.1.

--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)

Gene E. Bloch wrote:
When running Unix & Linux in command line mode, back when that was the
only way to do it, it was very useful to have virtual desktops.

Of course, that's a misnomer when there was no desktop; they were
really virtual terminals.

One fun advantage of that was that you could edit the same file in two
different terminal windows, thus losing the changes made in one window
when later changes were saved over earlier changes. When I was doing
that, it took me an unconscionably long time to figure out why my
changes were disappearing :-)

Modern editors don't suffer from that problem. Well, mine doesn't anyway.

--
Mike Barnes

On 1/21/2014, Mike Barnes posted:
Gene E. Bloch wrote:
When running Unix & Linux in command line mode, back when that was
the
only way to do it, it was very useful to have virtual desktops.

Of course, that's a misnomer when there was no desktop; they were
really virtual terminals.

One fun advantage of that was that you could edit the same file in
two
different terminal windows, thus losing the changes made in one
window
when later changes were saved over earlier changes. When I was
doing
that, it took me an unconscionably long time to figure out why my
changes were disappearing :-)

Modern editors don't suffer from that problem. Well, mine doesn't
anyway.

Somehow that doesn't seem to apply to Unix vi in 1980.

And actually, I lied a bit[1]. I wasn't actually using virtual
terminals, but spinning off subshells from inside the editor. I *did*
use virtual terminals in Linux later, but that was always play, not
serious work, and I have no idea if the problem would have occurred
there.

[1] Actually, I lied a lot :-)

--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)

On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 19:11:10 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
wrote:

In message , Char Jackson
writes:
On Mon, 20 Jan 2014 05:19:26 -0600, BillW50 wrote:
[]
Windows 8 has a new one like that. Although instead of a window, it is a
blue horizontal bar and the rest of the screen dims. It stated that I
had to upgrade Windows 8 to 8.1 right now. And it wouldn't allow me to
do anything else until I hit proceed or whatever it wanted. So I was
forced to start the upgrade and then I could abort and get control of my
machine back.

Mine had a "Later" button that would put it to sleep for a day or two. I
think Esc also dismisses it. Besides, that's not a 'window'.
[]
For practical purposes it is, in how we think of it.

Huh? In what way was that a window, and who is "we"?

IMHO, it had nothing to do with, and nothing in common with, what I call a
window.

--

Char Jackson

On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 13:38:12 -0800, Gene E. Bloch
wrote:

On 1/20/2014, Char Jackson posted:
I don't get confused with tons of windows opened. Its that I like
tons
of desktop real estate. And virtual desktops is a very practical
way of
getting an unlimited amount of it. And some applications are better
with
the window using as much space as you can get. Things like
browsers,
spreadsheets, drawing applications, videos, etc.

I still don't see the advantage of virtual desktops. Using a single
desktop,
I can stack as many windows as I want on top of each other, with only
the
topmost window visible and able to be worked on/in. Having to switch
desktops would only slow me down.

When running Unix & Linux in command line mode, back when that was the
only way to do it, it was very useful to have virtual desktops.

Of course, that's a misnomer when there was no desktop; they were
really virtual terminals.

One fun advantage of that was that you could edit the same file in two
different terminal windows, thus losing the changes made in one window
when later changes were saved over earlier changes. When I was doing
that, it took me an unconscionably long time to figure out why my
changes were disappearing :-)

Thanks for reinforcing my point. :-)

--

Char Jackson

On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 08:14:07 -0600, BillW50 wrote:

On 1/21/2014 1:16 AM, Char Jackson wrote:
On Mon, 20 Jan 2014 05:19:26 -0600, wrote:

On 1/19/2014 8:58 PM, Char Jackson wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jan 2014 13:32:52 -0600, wrote:
I've always been able to focus on the thing that I'm working on. It doesn't
bother me a bit to have pieces of other windows partially showing behind the
active window. I don't 'see' that while I'm working. (Wolf K. probably knows
what I mean by that.)

I don't get confused with tons of windows opened. Its that I like tons
of desktop real estate. And virtual desktops is a very practical way of
getting an unlimited amount of it. And some applications are better with
the window using as much space as you can get. Things like browsers,
spreadsheets, drawing applications, videos, etc.

I still don't see the advantage of virtual desktops. Using a single desktop,
I can stack as many windows as I want on top of each other, with only the
topmost window visible and able to be worked on/in. Having to switch
desktops would only slow me down.

Actually clicking on a corner window or clicking on another desktop
takes the same amount of time. So nothing lost or gained.

That may be true after you've taken the time to position your app windows on
the multiple virtual desktops, but I don't have to waste time on that task,
so I'm ahead of the game and you're behind.

You know, I see Windows 8 having a feature called "Show Windows Stacked"
when I right click on the Taskbar. I believe I have seen this with
Windows 7 too. Is this how you arrange your windows manually?

I'm not sure what you're implying. I don't actually "arrange" any windows. I
simply click on the app (in the Taskbar) that I want to work on and its
window pops to the top, ready for input. I don't arrange anything, and I
certainly don't waste any time putting different apps on different virtual
desktops. Computers are supposed to make things easier, not harder.

And you had stated that you don't understand the advantage of virtual
desktops? Well maybe we use our computers differently. Because I see a
ton of advantages. Although when I don't have a lot of windows open
(like you) I may not have a virtual desktop running.

I don't remember saying (in this thread, anyway) how many windows I
typically have open.

Also with MS Desktops v2, it operates differently than most other
virtual desktops. As it opens multiple Windows Shells. And one of the
benefits for me is that one can have the Aston v2 Desktop and another
has the stock Windows Desktop. Very, very cool! And with another virtual
desktop, I can have many virtual desktops within a single virtual
desktop. What a concept!

I lost my fascination with "cool concepts" when I sold my last Amiga in
about 1987. Since then, computers have become tools and very little more. I
have no time or interest in "concepts", however cool, that only use more of
my time.

If one prefers to minimize and restore applications, virtual desktop is
a very fast way to this. And it is great for those pesky windows that
pop up that you can't close unless you click ok or reboot or something.
And there is no need to minimize anything. Just switch to another
desktop.

I don't remember ever seeing a window that I couldn't close.

Oh I run into them now and then. The majority of them pop up and wants
your immediate attention and often is a window that is always on top of
other windows and you can't hide it.

Windows 8 has a new one like that. Although instead of a window, it is a
blue horizontal bar and the rest of the screen dims. It stated that I
had to upgrade Windows 8 to 8.1 right now. And it wouldn't allow me to
do anything else until I hit proceed or whatever it wanted. So I was
forced to start the upgrade and then I could abort and get control of my
machine back.

Mine had a "Later" button that would put it to sleep for a day or two. I
think Esc also dismisses it. Besides, that's not a 'window'.

There are lots of special key I use all of the time. For example, this
Logitech K400r has Windows 8 hotkeys. So no need to use the mouse to do
many things. But no matter what the OS version, I still use a lot of
these special feature keys. Like the later button (like you), vol
(up/down), mute, play/pause, etc.

"Later" was one of the on-screen buttons on the blue band that reminded me
to upgrade to 8.1. It's not a Windows hotkey so it's not on your keyboard.

You don't use any of the Windows hotkeys? Not even Win+E or Win+R?

The only Windows hotkey that I use regularly is Win+L to lock my
workstation.

Wow! Do you even use a file manager or ever run on command at all?

I honestly have no idea how you managed to jump from "I don't use Windows
hotkeys (except one)" to "do you even use a file manager or run a command at
all"? What's the connection between those two random things?

Heck
just yesterday I found an easy command to instantly pop up the Windows 8
Send To folder "shell:sendto". Might work under Windows 7 too, I haven't
checked yet.

I believe that worked with XP and may have also worked with 98. My memory
doesn't go farther back than that, but it wouldn't surprise me if it also
worked with 95.

--

Char Jackson

On 1/21/2014, Char Jackson posted:
On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 19:11:10 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
wrote:

In message , Char
Jackson writes:
On Mon, 20 Jan 2014 05:19:26 -0600, BillW50
wrote: []
Windows 8 has a new one like that. Although instead of a window,
it is a blue horizontal bar and the rest of the screen dims. It
stated that I had to upgrade Windows 8 to 8.1 right now. And it
wouldn't allow me to do anything else until I hit proceed or
whatever it wanted. So I was forced to start the upgrade and then
I could abort and get control of my machine back.

Mine had a "Later" button that would put it to sleep for a day or
two. I think Esc also dismisses it. Besides, that's not a 'window'.
[]
For practical purposes it is, in how we think of it.

Huh? In what way was that a window, and who is "we"?

IMHO, it had nothing to do with, and nothing in common with, what I
call a window.

If you ever tried Windows software development, you would be surprised
to learn what is a window...

Hint: everything.

--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)

On 1/21/2014, Char Jackson posted:
On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 13:38:12 -0800, Gene E. Bloch
wrote:

On 1/20/2014, Char Jackson posted:
I don't get confused with tons of windows opened. Its that I like
tons
of desktop real estate. And virtual desktops is a very practical
way of
getting an unlimited amount of it. And some applications are
better with
the window using as much space as you can get. Things like
browsers,
spreadsheets, drawing applications, videos, etc.
I still don't see the advantage of virtual desktops. Using a single
desktop,
I can stack as many windows as I want on top of each other, with
only the
topmost window visible and able to be worked on/in. Having to
switch desktops would only slow me down.

When running Unix & Linux in command line mode, back when that was
the only way to do it, it was very useful to have virtual desktops.

Of course, that's a misnomer when there was no desktop; they were
really virtual terminals.

One fun advantage of that was that you could edit the same file in
two different terminal windows, thus losing the changes made in one
window when later changes were saved over earlier changes. When I
was doing that, it took me an unconscionably long time to figure
out why my changes were disappearing :-)

Thanks for reinforcing my point. :-)

Not so much reinforcing your point as pointing out that *in that
environment* you had to watch your back, in order to gain the
unmistakable advantages of virtual desktops.

But in another post I confessed to the misleading nature of what I said
about losing changes. I was really spinning off subshells, which isn't
the same thing. Besides, that was in another company, and the company
is dead...but that's just a random allusion to Shylock and not relevant
:-)

It was in the 80s, and in a command-line only environment; I didn't
ever have that failure a decade later in Linux, but I never did much
with Linux.

--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)