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HELP - XP SP2 Hangs on COLD BOOT (Sorry, LONG)



 
 
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  #1  
Old June 4th 05, 07:05 AM
Al Waschka
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default HELP - XP SP2 Hangs on COLD BOOT (Sorry, LONG)

So I updated my XPH machine to SP2. It seemed SLOOOOOW, particularly in
Windows Explorer when changing directories, but it basically worked for
several days as my file and print sharing server, however, I leave it on all
the time. I thought that maybe the slowness was a garbage collection
problem, so I shut the machine down and powered it back up. Gets through
POST fine to the windows loading progress screen and the scanner stops after
1-2 repetitions. It will only start in safe mode, and System Restore to a
point before SP2 install did not solve the problem.

After a lot of research on here and in the KB, discovered potential for a
outdated BIOS. I am running a P4 2.6G, 800 FSB, 512 L2 on an ASUS P4P800VM.
My BIOS was 1005. Asus says my CPU needs at least 1007, and that I must load
1008 before going any higher. So I loaded 1008 and the problem was solved,
i.e. I could load and run XP SP2 again. I had some printer problems (HP
Photosmart 1215 on DOT4 port) so I loaded 1016 (the latest non-beta) with the
recommended loader (AFUDOS 2.7). When starting up, I got a time not set
error. Setting time would not take. I went back and got the latest version
of the loader (AFUDOS 2.11) and reloaded 1016 BIOS. Clock now OK, system
will start again, but when I cycled power, it locked again.

I have an alternate boot configuration with a different HD. It is XPH, but
has not been "upgraded" with SP2. It loads fine except it can't find the
printer either. It tolerates cold boot.

The non-working configuration is on a new 200G hard drive that I bought the
first time I saw this problem, about 6 months ago. I found some bad sectors
on my 40G HD. I thought that was causing the problem so I bought the 200G
and it seemed to clear it up, but I hadn't loaded SP2. Now, without SP2, the
40G drive is working fine.

I can't seem to find any BIOS that will make this configuration run with
SP2. HELP?!?!?!
--
Thanks for any help,

Al

Ads
  #2  
Old June 4th 05, 02:58 PM
Kerry Brown
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Al Waschka" wrote in message
...
So I updated my XPH machine to SP2. It seemed SLOOOOOW, particularly in
Windows Explorer when changing directories, but it basically worked for
several days as my file and print sharing server, however, I leave it on
all
the time. I thought that maybe the slowness was a garbage collection
problem, so I shut the machine down and powered it back up. Gets through
POST fine to the windows loading progress screen and the scanner stops
after
1-2 repetitions. It will only start in safe mode, and System Restore to a
point before SP2 install did not solve the problem.

After a lot of research on here and in the KB, discovered potential for a
outdated BIOS. I am running a P4 2.6G, 800 FSB, 512 L2 on an ASUS
P4P800VM.
My BIOS was 1005. Asus says my CPU needs at least 1007, and that I must
load
1008 before going any higher. So I loaded 1008 and the problem was
solved,
i.e. I could load and run XP SP2 again. I had some printer problems (HP
Photosmart 1215 on DOT4 port) so I loaded 1016 (the latest non-beta) with
the
recommended loader (AFUDOS 2.7). When starting up, I got a time not set
error. Setting time would not take. I went back and got the latest
version
of the loader (AFUDOS 2.11) and reloaded 1016 BIOS. Clock now OK, system
will start again, but when I cycled power, it locked again.

I have an alternate boot configuration with a different HD. It is XPH,
but
has not been "upgraded" with SP2. It loads fine except it can't find the
printer either. It tolerates cold boot.

The non-working configuration is on a new 200G hard drive that I bought
the
first time I saw this problem, about 6 months ago. I found some bad
sectors
on my 40G HD. I thought that was causing the problem so I bought the 200G
and it seemed to clear it up, but I hadn't loaded SP2. Now, without SP2,
the
40G drive is working fine.

I can't seem to find any BIOS that will make this configuration run with
SP2. HELP?!?!?!
--
Thanks for any help,

Al


After flashing the BIOS did you do a manual reset of the CMOS? There is a
jumper on the motherboard to reset the CMOS. Sometimes this is needed. If
that doesn't solve the problem you may have a driver or some other software
that is not compatible with SP2. At this point I would download and install
all the latest drivers and program updates. If that still didn't help I
would try a repair install.

Kerry


  #3  
Old June 4th 05, 03:23 PM
Al Waschka
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

My defective SP2 installation is on Drive0
My working pre-SP2 installation is on Drive1
When 0 will not start, if I switch boot device in CMOS to 1, windows comes
up, as expected.
If I then switch back to 0, IT WORKS!
But then, if I cycle power, i.e. shutdown followed by startup, it hangs again.
  #4  
Old June 4th 05, 03:57 PM
Kerry Brown
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Al Waschka" wrote in message
...
My defective SP2 installation is on Drive0
My working pre-SP2 installation is on Drive1
When 0 will not start, if I switch boot device in CMOS to 1, windows comes
up, as expected.
If I then switch back to 0, IT WORKS!
But then, if I cycle power, i.e. shutdown followed by startup, it hangs
again.


That's nice, but it doesn't answer my question. :-) Did you reset the CMOS
via the jumper on the motherboard after flashing the BIOS? Failure to do
this can sometimes cause erratic results like you are describing. This may
not solve the problem but it eliminates one possible cause.

Kerry


  #5  
Old June 4th 05, 04:30 PM
Al Waschka
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I don't have a "reset" jumper. What I do have is a "clear CMOS memory"
jumper that erases the date, time, and setup parameters.

I am hesitant to do that since I presume that I will then have to go in set
every configuration parameter and I don't have a clue what most of them
should be. Would it be the same to restore the defaults? Shouldn't a
reflash of the BIOS load the parameters from the defaults?

Thanks,

Al


"Kerry Brown" wrote:

"Al Waschka" wrote in message
...
My defective SP2 installation is on Drive0
My working pre-SP2 installation is on Drive1
When 0 will not start, if I switch boot device in CMOS to 1, windows comes
up, as expected.
If I then switch back to 0, IT WORKS!
But then, if I cycle power, i.e. shutdown followed by startup, it hangs
again.


That's nice, but it doesn't answer my question. :-) Did you reset the CMOS
via the jumper on the motherboard after flashing the BIOS? Failure to do
this can sometimes cause erratic results like you are describing. This may
not solve the problem but it eliminates one possible cause.

Kerry



  #6  
Old June 4th 05, 04:35 PM
Al Waschka
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Oh,yeah....
Wouldn't the fact that loading from one partition "repairs" a load from a
different partition indicate that some driver or dll or whatever isn't
getting loaded into memory by the defective partition and survives a restart
but not a cold boot? And this is not a random occurrence. I had exactly the
same problem (symptoms-wise) a few months ago. It came back, exactly like
before, when I "upgraded" to SP2.

"Kerry Brown" wrote:

"Al Waschka" wrote in message
...
My defective SP2 installation is on Drive0
My working pre-SP2 installation is on Drive1
When 0 will not start, if I switch boot device in CMOS to 1, windows comes
up, as expected.
If I then switch back to 0, IT WORKS!
But then, if I cycle power, i.e. shutdown followed by startup, it hangs
again.


That's nice, but it doesn't answer my question. :-) Did you reset the CMOS
via the jumper on the motherboard after flashing the BIOS? Failure to do
this can sometimes cause erratic results like you are describing. This may
not solve the problem but it eliminates one possible cause.

Kerry



  #7  
Old June 4th 05, 04:56 PM
Kerry Brown
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Al Waschka" wrote in message
...
I don't have a "reset" jumper. What I do have is a "clear CMOS memory"
jumper that erases the date, time, and setup parameters.

I am hesitant to do that since I presume that I will then have to go in
set
every configuration parameter and I don't have a clue what most of them
should be. Would it be the same to restore the defaults? Shouldn't a
reflash of the BIOS load the parameters from the defaults?

Thanks,

Al



That is the correct jumper. Yes, you will have to reset all the parameters
including date and time. Restore to the defaults usually works fine.
Flashing the BIOS doesn't always reset everything. It is good practice to do
this after flashing the BIOS.

Kerry

"Kerry Brown" wrote:

"Al Waschka" wrote in message
...
My defective SP2 installation is on Drive0
My working pre-SP2 installation is on Drive1
When 0 will not start, if I switch boot device in CMOS to 1, windows
comes
up, as expected.
If I then switch back to 0, IT WORKS!
But then, if I cycle power, i.e. shutdown followed by startup, it hangs
again.


That's nice, but it doesn't answer my question. :-) Did you reset the
CMOS
via the jumper on the motherboard after flashing the BIOS? Failure to do
this can sometimes cause erratic results like you are describing. This
may
not solve the problem but it eliminates one possible cause.

Kerry





  #8  
Old June 4th 05, 05:06 PM
Kerry Brown
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Al Waschka" wrote in message
...
Oh,yeah....
Wouldn't the fact that loading from one partition "repairs" a load from a
different partition indicate that some driver or dll or whatever isn't
getting loaded into memory by the defective partition and survives a
restart
but not a cold boot? And this is not a random occurrence. I had exactly
the
same problem (symptoms-wise) a few months ago. It came back, exactly like
before, when I "upgraded" to SP2.


To find out what is causing the problem you have to eliminate the simple,
obvious things first. Booting into a working install of Windows may
initialise some hardware that is not happening on the other install with
SP2. If the installs were exactly the same except for SP2 then I would
suspect SP2. The installs are not exactly the same. You mentioned that some
time elapsed, printers were installed etc. Troubleshooting is a time
consuming process with few if any shortcuts. Test for the problem after each
change. Start with the simplest steps first. 1) Reset the CMOS. Test for the
problem. 2) disconnect the printer that had problems and remove it's drivers
Test for the problem. 3) download and install the latest drivers for all
your other hardware. Test for the problem, and so on and so on until it's
solved. It may very well end up that something, hardware or software, is not
compatible with SP2. Until you eliminate all the other possibilities you'll
never know.

Kerry



"Kerry Brown" wrote:

"Al Waschka" wrote in message
...
My defective SP2 installation is on Drive0
My working pre-SP2 installation is on Drive1
When 0 will not start, if I switch boot device in CMOS to 1, windows
comes
up, as expected.
If I then switch back to 0, IT WORKS!
But then, if I cycle power, i.e. shutdown followed by startup, it hangs
again.


That's nice, but it doesn't answer my question. :-) Did you reset the
CMOS
via the jumper on the motherboard after flashing the BIOS? Failure to do
this can sometimes cause erratic results like you are describing. This
may
not solve the problem but it eliminates one possible cause.

Kerry





  #9  
Old June 4th 05, 06:37 PM
Al Waschka
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

OK, I cleared the CMOS memory, reloaded defaults, and set the date/time.
Same problem.

"Rant mode ON"

While I understand your philosophical comments about troubleshooting (I am
an MSEE with 35 years in the design of hardware, firmware, software and
systems), that is only one perspective. In my case, it was the addition of
SP2 that caused the original problem. I had a working configuration with all
hardware supported and everything was fine until I installed SP2. All this
other stuff (printers not working, etc.) was fallout from installing SP2 or
from changing the BIOS to try to get compatible with SP2. And don't forget
that I had EXACTLY the same problem with the older currently working
configuration several months back. When I upgraded it to SP2, it started
halting during startup exactly like the new configuration does now. I bought
a new HD, loaded it up, moved over to it and that is the configuration that
is not working now, again after installing SP2. I rebuilt the old HD up to
just before SP2, turned off updates and now it is running. I have no doubt
that if I installed SP2, it would also crash.

As to your comment that I may have hardware or software that is not
compatible with SP2, I can't imagine that it should be necessary to go back
to a clean pre-SPx boot configuration, add SP-x, then reload every piece of
software and hardware (until the system stops working) to find non-compatible
hardware and software everytime MS comes out with a SP. They should be
testing SPs to determine what the the SP confoguration doesn't support that
the pre-SP configuration did, and they should notify users so that they can
make an intelligent decision as to whether or not to install a SP. I guess I
am going to have to reload windows, upgrade to just before SP2 and then strop
installing upgrades. Thats a crappy way to run a business.

I just got a phone call from my daughter. Her computer (HP Notebook) had
been in for repair. She reloaded it and it was working fine. She started
"upgrading" it with MS updates, and after SP2 somehow her WLAN was indicating
low signal and couldn't stay logged on. She wiped it slick again and
reloaded to just before SP2 and everything is fine again.

I rest my case.....

"RANT mode off"

Regardless, Kerry, thanks for trying to help. I appreciate your efforts,
but I'm becoming convinced that this is an inherent problem with SP2 that I
will not be able to fix.

Al


"Kerry Brown" wrote:

"Al Waschka" wrote in message
...
Oh,yeah....
Wouldn't the fact that loading from one partition "repairs" a load from a
different partition indicate that some driver or dll or whatever isn't
getting loaded into memory by the defective partition and survives a
restart
but not a cold boot? And this is not a random occurrence. I had exactly
the
same problem (symptoms-wise) a few months ago. It came back, exactly like
before, when I "upgraded" to SP2.


To find out what is causing the problem you have to eliminate the simple,
obvious things first. Booting into a working install of Windows may
initialise some hardware that is not happening on the other install with
SP2. If the installs were exactly the same except for SP2 then I would
suspect SP2. The installs are not exactly the same. You mentioned that some
time elapsed, printers were installed etc. Troubleshooting is a time
consuming process with few if any shortcuts. Test for the problem after each
change. Start with the simplest steps first. 1) Reset the CMOS. Test for the
problem. 2) disconnect the printer that had problems and remove it's drivers
Test for the problem. 3) download and install the latest drivers for all
your other hardware. Test for the problem, and so on and so on until it's
solved. It may very well end up that something, hardware or software, is not
compatible with SP2. Until you eliminate all the other possibilities you'll
never know.

Kerry



"Kerry Brown" wrote:

"Al Waschka" wrote in message
...
My defective SP2 installation is on Drive0
My working pre-SP2 installation is on Drive1
When 0 will not start, if I switch boot device in CMOS to 1, windows
comes
up, as expected.
If I then switch back to 0, IT WORKS!
But then, if I cycle power, i.e. shutdown followed by startup, it hangs
again.

That's nice, but it doesn't answer my question. :-) Did you reset the
CMOS
via the jumper on the motherboard after flashing the BIOS? Failure to do
this can sometimes cause erratic results like you are describing. This
may
not solve the problem but it eliminates one possible cause.

Kerry






  #10  
Old June 4th 05, 08:13 PM
Kerry Brown
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Al Waschka" wrote in message
...
OK, I cleared the CMOS memory, reloaded defaults, and set the date/time.
Same problem.

"Rant mode ON"

While I understand your philosophical comments about troubleshooting (I am
an MSEE with 35 years in the design of hardware, firmware, software and
systems), that is only one perspective. In my case, it was the addition
of
SP2 that caused the original problem. I had a working configuration with
all
hardware supported and everything was fine until I installed SP2. All
this
other stuff (printers not working, etc.) was fallout from installing SP2
or
from changing the BIOS to try to get compatible with SP2. And don't
forget
that I had EXACTLY the same problem with the older currently working
configuration several months back. When I upgraded it to SP2, it started
halting during startup exactly like the new configuration does now. I
bought
a new HD, loaded it up, moved over to it and that is the configuration
that
is not working now, again after installing SP2. I rebuilt the old HD up
to
just before SP2, turned off updates and now it is running. I have no
doubt
that if I installed SP2, it would also crash.

As to your comment that I may have hardware or software that is not
compatible with SP2, I can't imagine that it should be necessary to go
back
to a clean pre-SPx boot configuration, add SP-x, then reload every piece
of
software and hardware (until the system stops working) to find
non-compatible
hardware and software everytime MS comes out with a SP. They should be
testing SPs to determine what the the SP confoguration doesn't support
that
the pre-SP configuration did, and they should notify users so that they
can
make an intelligent decision as to whether or not to install a SP. I
guess I
am going to have to reload windows, upgrade to just before SP2 and then
strop
installing upgrades. Thats a crappy way to run a business.

I just got a phone call from my daughter. Her computer (HP Notebook) had
been in for repair. She reloaded it and it was working fine. She started
"upgrading" it with MS updates, and after SP2 somehow her WLAN was
indicating
low signal and couldn't stay logged on. She wiped it slick again and
reloaded to just before SP2 and everything is fine again.

I rest my case.....

"RANT mode off"

Regardless, Kerry, thanks for trying to help. I appreciate your efforts,
but I'm becoming convinced that this is an inherent problem with SP2 that
I
will not be able to fix.

Al


The HP laptop problem has a known fix that's quite easy to find. I'm
suprised the repair shop didn't know about it. Do a google search for HP XP
SP2 WLAN.

There is no possible way Microsoft could test every possible combination of
hardware and software. They have a section of their web site dedicated to
installing SP2 with many helpful troubleshooting tips.

http://support.microsoft.com/default...r=windowsxpsp2

I have done several hundred installs of SP2 and only seen one computer that
was not compatible. I have seen a few USB devices that aren't compatible. I
have seen lot's of software including software from Microsoft that is not
compatible. If you don't figure out what is causing the problem you are
stuck with your computer as it is now. You may be locked out of future
updates as they may require SP2. That decision is up to you. Personally I
think the security improvements are worth the effort to get it working.

Rant mode on (it's a rant not a flame)

With your experience you must know the logistics involved with testing such
a varied and large installed base. You also must have developed a methodolgy
of testing when something goes wrong. It is common for upgrades to cause
problems with previously working systems whether the upgrade is hardware,
firmware or software. An upgrade changes things by it's very nature. What
you are saying is that once you purchase a computer no one should ever come
out with something that won't work on it. That is unrealistic. And yes it
sometimes comes down to a clean install of Windows, then SP2, then drivers
and programs to find the incompatibilty. That is a last resort. I suggested
a couple of other steps first. In any case your argument about doing a clean
install, then rebuilding the system, then installing SP2 is clearly
backwards and will only get you to the same place that doesn't work every
time.

Rant mode off

Like I said earlier I believe the increased security of SP2 is worth the
effort but it's your computer. I have several paying customers who think
likewise so you are not alone. They are of the opinion that they upgrade
their systems every few years anyway so the next upgrade will solve the
problem. For them the cost of troubleshooting the current working systems
isn't worth it. As long as you have a good firewall in place and practice
safe computing SP2 isn't essential.

Kerry


"Kerry Brown" wrote:

"Al Waschka" wrote in message
...
Oh,yeah....
Wouldn't the fact that loading from one partition "repairs" a load from
a
different partition indicate that some driver or dll or whatever isn't
getting loaded into memory by the defective partition and survives a
restart
but not a cold boot? And this is not a random occurrence. I had
exactly
the
same problem (symptoms-wise) a few months ago. It came back, exactly
like
before, when I "upgraded" to SP2.


To find out what is causing the problem you have to eliminate the simple,
obvious things first. Booting into a working install of Windows may
initialise some hardware that is not happening on the other install with
SP2. If the installs were exactly the same except for SP2 then I would
suspect SP2. The installs are not exactly the same. You mentioned that
some
time elapsed, printers were installed etc. Troubleshooting is a time
consuming process with few if any shortcuts. Test for the problem after
each
change. Start with the simplest steps first. 1) Reset the CMOS. Test for
the
problem. 2) disconnect the printer that had problems and remove it's
drivers
Test for the problem. 3) download and install the latest drivers for all
your other hardware. Test for the problem, and so on and so on until it's
solved. It may very well end up that something, hardware or software, is
not
compatible with SP2. Until you eliminate all the other possibilities
you'll
never know.

Kerry



"Kerry Brown" wrote:

"Al Waschka" wrote in message
...
My defective SP2 installation is on Drive0
My working pre-SP2 installation is on Drive1
When 0 will not start, if I switch boot device in CMOS to 1, windows
comes
up, as expected.
If I then switch back to 0, IT WORKS!
But then, if I cycle power, i.e. shutdown followed by startup, it
hangs
again.

That's nice, but it doesn't answer my question. :-) Did you reset the
CMOS
via the jumper on the motherboard after flashing the BIOS? Failure to
do
this can sometimes cause erratic results like you are describing. This
may
not solve the problem but it eliminates one possible cause.

Kerry








  #11  
Old June 4th 05, 10:10 PM
Al Waschka
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

We obviously have different perspectives. I am a Microsoft customer, and you
are on the vendor/supplier side of the line. I didn't say that no one should
come out with something that isn't compatible with my computer, only that
Microsoft should not put out service packs (and hypoe them as being next to
essential) without letting people know what the compatibility issues are.
Yeah, its hard, but they make a pile of money off of people like me who buy
their products (and sell them in products to my customers).


That aside, I appreciate your assistance and I have now tried almost
everything you suggested. Thanks for the tip on my daughter's machine, by
the way, I will pass that on to her. I will make sure I have all the latest
drivers for the motherboard. That is really all there is. It is an all on
board solution so there are no video cards, etc. I have the latest printer
driver and I can't get it to load. The printer is an HP Photosmart 1215. It
tries to load on a DOT4 port, but the install can't find the printer. I
suspect that the SP2 problem is related to the loss of connectivity with the
DOT4 port but I haven't found anything on MS.com KB, yet.

Kerry, again, thanks - It is because of people like you who will help people
like me (difficult though we may be) that Microsoft can continue to sell the
products they develop.

Al


"Kerry Brown" wrote:

"Al Waschka" wrote in message
...
OK, I cleared the CMOS memory, reloaded defaults, and set the date/time.
Same problem.

"Rant mode ON"

While I understand your philosophical comments about troubleshooting (I am
an MSEE with 35 years in the design of hardware, firmware, software and
systems), that is only one perspective. In my case, it was the addition
of
SP2 that caused the original problem. I had a working configuration with
all
hardware supported and everything was fine until I installed SP2. All
this
other stuff (printers not working, etc.) was fallout from installing SP2
or
from changing the BIOS to try to get compatible with SP2. And don't
forget
that I had EXACTLY the same problem with the older currently working
configuration several months back. When I upgraded it to SP2, it started
halting during startup exactly like the new configuration does now. I
bought
a new HD, loaded it up, moved over to it and that is the configuration
that
is not working now, again after installing SP2. I rebuilt the old HD up
to
just before SP2, turned off updates and now it is running. I have no
doubt
that if I installed SP2, it would also crash.

As to your comment that I may have hardware or software that is not
compatible with SP2, I can't imagine that it should be necessary to go
back
to a clean pre-SPx boot configuration, add SP-x, then reload every piece
of
software and hardware (until the system stops working) to find
non-compatible
hardware and software everytime MS comes out with a SP. They should be
testing SPs to determine what the the SP confoguration doesn't support
that
the pre-SP configuration did, and they should notify users so that they
can
make an intelligent decision as to whether or not to install a SP. I
guess I
am going to have to reload windows, upgrade to just before SP2 and then
strop
installing upgrades. Thats a crappy way to run a business.

I just got a phone call from my daughter. Her computer (HP Notebook) had
been in for repair. She reloaded it and it was working fine. She started
"upgrading" it with MS updates, and after SP2 somehow her WLAN was
indicating
low signal and couldn't stay logged on. She wiped it slick again and
reloaded to just before SP2 and everything is fine again.

I rest my case.....

"RANT mode off"

Regardless, Kerry, thanks for trying to help. I appreciate your efforts,
but I'm becoming convinced that this is an inherent problem with SP2 that
I
will not be able to fix.

Al


The HP laptop problem has a known fix that's quite easy to find. I'm
suprised the repair shop didn't know about it. Do a google search for HP XP
SP2 WLAN.

There is no possible way Microsoft could test every possible combination of
hardware and software. They have a section of their web site dedicated to
installing SP2 with many helpful troubleshooting tips.

http://support.microsoft.com/default...r=windowsxpsp2

I have done several hundred installs of SP2 and only seen one computer that
was not compatible. I have seen a few USB devices that aren't compatible. I
have seen lot's of software including software from Microsoft that is not
compatible. If you don't figure out what is causing the problem you are
stuck with your computer as it is now. You may be locked out of future
updates as they may require SP2. That decision is up to you. Personally I
think the security improvements are worth the effort to get it working.

Rant mode on (it's a rant not a flame)

With your experience you must know the logistics involved with testing such
a varied and large installed base. You also must have developed a methodolgy
of testing when something goes wrong. It is common for upgrades to cause
problems with previously working systems whether the upgrade is hardware,
firmware or software. An upgrade changes things by it's very nature. What
you are saying is that once you purchase a computer no one should ever come
out with something that won't work on it. That is unrealistic. And yes it
sometimes comes down to a clean install of Windows, then SP2, then drivers
and programs to find the incompatibilty. That is a last resort. I suggested
a couple of other steps first. In any case your argument about doing a clean
install, then rebuilding the system, then installing SP2 is clearly
backwards and will only get you to the same place that doesn't work every
time.

Rant mode off

Like I said earlier I believe the increased security of SP2 is worth the
effort but it's your computer. I have several paying customers who think
likewise so you are not alone. They are of the opinion that they upgrade
their systems every few years anyway so the next upgrade will solve the
problem. For them the cost of troubleshooting the current working systems
isn't worth it. As long as you have a good firewall in place and practice
safe computing SP2 isn't essential.

Kerry


"Kerry Brown" wrote:

"Al Waschka" wrote in message
...
Oh,yeah....
Wouldn't the fact that loading from one partition "repairs" a load from
a
different partition indicate that some driver or dll or whatever isn't
getting loaded into memory by the defective partition and survives a
restart
but not a cold boot? And this is not a random occurrence. I had
exactly
the
same problem (symptoms-wise) a few months ago. It came back, exactly
like
before, when I "upgraded" to SP2.


To find out what is causing the problem you have to eliminate the simple,
obvious things first. Booting into a working install of Windows may
initialise some hardware that is not happening on the other install with
SP2. If the installs were exactly the same except for SP2 then I would
suspect SP2. The installs are not exactly the same. You mentioned that
some
time elapsed, printers were installed etc. Troubleshooting is a time
consuming process with few if any shortcuts. Test for the problem after
each
change. Start with the simplest steps first. 1) Reset the CMOS. Test for
the
problem. 2) disconnect the printer that had problems and remove it's
drivers
Test for the problem. 3) download and install the latest drivers for all
your other hardware. Test for the problem, and so on and so on until it's
solved. It may very well end up that something, hardware or software, is
not
compatible with SP2. Until you eliminate all the other possibilities
you'll
never know.

Kerry



"Kerry Brown" wrote:

"Al Waschka" wrote in message
...
My defective SP2 installation is on Drive0
My working pre-SP2 installation is on Drive1
When 0 will not start, if I switch boot device in CMOS to 1, windows
comes
up, as expected.
If I then switch back to 0, IT WORKS!
But then, if I cycle power, i.e. shutdown followed by startup, it
hangs
again.

That's nice, but it doesn't answer my question. :-) Did you reset the
CMOS
via the jumper on the motherboard after flashing the BIOS? Failure to
do
this can sometimes cause erratic results like you are describing. This
may
not solve the problem but it eliminates one possible cause.

Kerry









  #12  
Old June 5th 05, 01:16 AM
Shooter
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Sat, 4 Jun 2005 14:10:01 -0700, "Al Waschka"
wrote:

Microsoft should not put out service packs (and hypoe them as being next to
essential) without letting people know what the compatibility issues are.


That same exact observation has been made before on here many times
and each time that observation generated posts defending MS as if MS
needed defending... Hummmmm. It also generated the usual expected
venom from one specific MVP of which always attacks anyone that has
the audacity to question anything MS does.

To those of common sense and who are not mindless clones, your are
right in your observation my friend.

Regards,
  #13  
Old June 5th 05, 01:50 AM
Tom Pepper Willett
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

We waited for a couple of months to install SP2 in our corporate
environment. At least 50 pcs. When we did so, not one problem has
surfaced.

Tom
:
|
| Microsoft should not put out service packs (and hypoe them as being
next to
| essential) without letting people know what the compatibility issues
are.
|
| That same exact observation has been made before on here many times
| and each time that observation generated posts defending MS as if MS
| needed defending... Hummmmm. It also generated the usual expected
| venom from one specific MVP of which always attacks anyone that has
| the audacity to question anything MS does.
|
| To those of common sense and who are not mindless clones, your are
| right in your observation my friend.
|
| Common sense would dictate testing and compatibility checking BEFORE
| installing any updates - in fact, if you check, MS clearly recommends
| that you check and test before you install any update.
|
| What's really amazing is that people defending people that don't
| test/check before installing updates and then have the audacity to
| complain about the update.
|
| --
| --
|
| remove 999 in order to email me


  #14  
Old June 5th 05, 02:00 AM
Kerry Brown
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Al Waschka" wrote in message
...
We obviously have different perspectives. I am a Microsoft customer, and
you
are on the vendor/supplier side of the line. I didn't say that no one
should
come out with something that isn't compatible with my computer, only that
Microsoft should not put out service packs (and hypoe them as being next
to
essential) without letting people know what the compatibility issues are.
Yeah, its hard, but they make a pile of money off of people like me who
buy
their products (and sell them in products to my customers).


That aside, I appreciate your assistance and I have now tried almost
everything you suggested. Thanks for the tip on my daughter's machine, by
the way, I will pass that on to her. I will make sure I have all the
latest
drivers for the motherboard. That is really all there is. It is an all
on
board solution so there are no video cards, etc. I have the latest
printer
driver and I can't get it to load. The printer is an HP Photosmart 1215.
It
tries to load on a DOT4 port, but the install can't find the printer. I
suspect that the SP2 problem is related to the loss of connectivity with
the
DOT4 port but I haven't found anything on MS.com KB, yet.

Kerry, again, thanks - It is because of people like you who will help
people
like me (difficult though we may be) that Microsoft can continue to sell
the
products they develop.

Al


Your welcome.

I have had lots of issues with HP USB printers on all versions of Windows. I
have actually quit selling them because of support issues. It was costing me
too much money reinstalling them when customers botched the install. They
are very finicky. Usually you have to uninstall everything to do with the
printer then hunt down all the files and registry entries that the uninstall
doesn't delete. HP's uninstall programs are almost as useless as Norton's.
Once it's completely clean then install it exactly according to their
directions. One step out of order and it usually doesn't work and you have
to do the whole uninstall again. It's particularly important to figure out
exactly where in the process that the printer needs to be plugged into the
computer's USB port. They are not consistent. With some printers it's part
way through the install with other's it's after the install.

Kerry


"Kerry Brown" wrote:

"Al Waschka" wrote in message
...
OK, I cleared the CMOS memory, reloaded defaults, and set the
date/time.
Same problem.

"Rant mode ON"

While I understand your philosophical comments about troubleshooting (I
am
an MSEE with 35 years in the design of hardware, firmware, software and
systems), that is only one perspective. In my case, it was the
addition
of
SP2 that caused the original problem. I had a working configuration
with
all
hardware supported and everything was fine until I installed SP2. All
this
other stuff (printers not working, etc.) was fallout from installing
SP2
or
from changing the BIOS to try to get compatible with SP2. And don't
forget
that I had EXACTLY the same problem with the older currently working
configuration several months back. When I upgraded it to SP2, it
started
halting during startup exactly like the new configuration does now. I
bought
a new HD, loaded it up, moved over to it and that is the configuration
that
is not working now, again after installing SP2. I rebuilt the old HD
up
to
just before SP2, turned off updates and now it is running. I have no
doubt
that if I installed SP2, it would also crash.

As to your comment that I may have hardware or software that is not
compatible with SP2, I can't imagine that it should be necessary to go
back
to a clean pre-SPx boot configuration, add SP-x, then reload every
piece
of
software and hardware (until the system stops working) to find
non-compatible
hardware and software everytime MS comes out with a SP. They should be
testing SPs to determine what the the SP confoguration doesn't support
that
the pre-SP configuration did, and they should notify users so that they
can
make an intelligent decision as to whether or not to install a SP. I
guess I
am going to have to reload windows, upgrade to just before SP2 and then
strop
installing upgrades. Thats a crappy way to run a business.

I just got a phone call from my daughter. Her computer (HP Notebook)
had
been in for repair. She reloaded it and it was working fine. She
started
"upgrading" it with MS updates, and after SP2 somehow her WLAN was
indicating
low signal and couldn't stay logged on. She wiped it slick again and
reloaded to just before SP2 and everything is fine again.

I rest my case.....

"RANT mode off"

Regardless, Kerry, thanks for trying to help. I appreciate your
efforts,
but I'm becoming convinced that this is an inherent problem with SP2
that
I
will not be able to fix.

Al


The HP laptop problem has a known fix that's quite easy to find. I'm
suprised the repair shop didn't know about it. Do a google search for HP
XP
SP2 WLAN.

There is no possible way Microsoft could test every possible combination
of
hardware and software. They have a section of their web site dedicated to
installing SP2 with many helpful troubleshooting tips.

http://support.microsoft.com/default...r=windowsxpsp2

I have done several hundred installs of SP2 and only seen one computer
that
was not compatible. I have seen a few USB devices that aren't compatible.
I
have seen lot's of software including software from Microsoft that is not
compatible. If you don't figure out what is causing the problem you are
stuck with your computer as it is now. You may be locked out of future
updates as they may require SP2. That decision is up to you. Personally I
think the security improvements are worth the effort to get it working.

Rant mode on (it's a rant not a flame)

With your experience you must know the logistics involved with testing
such
a varied and large installed base. You also must have developed a
methodolgy
of testing when something goes wrong. It is common for upgrades to cause
problems with previously working systems whether the upgrade is hardware,
firmware or software. An upgrade changes things by it's very nature. What
you are saying is that once you purchase a computer no one should ever
come
out with something that won't work on it. That is unrealistic. And yes it
sometimes comes down to a clean install of Windows, then SP2, then
drivers
and programs to find the incompatibilty. That is a last resort. I
suggested
a couple of other steps first. In any case your argument about doing a
clean
install, then rebuilding the system, then installing SP2 is clearly
backwards and will only get you to the same place that doesn't work every
time.

Rant mode off

Like I said earlier I believe the increased security of SP2 is worth the
effort but it's your computer. I have several paying customers who think
likewise so you are not alone. They are of the opinion that they upgrade
their systems every few years anyway so the next upgrade will solve the
problem. For them the cost of troubleshooting the current working systems
isn't worth it. As long as you have a good firewall in place and practice
safe computing SP2 isn't essential.

Kerry


"Kerry Brown" wrote:

"Al Waschka" wrote in message
...
Oh,yeah....
Wouldn't the fact that loading from one partition "repairs" a load
from
a
different partition indicate that some driver or dll or whatever
isn't
getting loaded into memory by the defective partition and survives a
restart
but not a cold boot? And this is not a random occurrence. I had
exactly
the
same problem (symptoms-wise) a few months ago. It came back,
exactly
like
before, when I "upgraded" to SP2.


To find out what is causing the problem you have to eliminate the
simple,
obvious things first. Booting into a working install of Windows may
initialise some hardware that is not happening on the other install
with
SP2. If the installs were exactly the same except for SP2 then I would
suspect SP2. The installs are not exactly the same. You mentioned that
some
time elapsed, printers were installed etc. Troubleshooting is a time
consuming process with few if any shortcuts. Test for the problem
after
each
change. Start with the simplest steps first. 1) Reset the CMOS. Test
for
the
problem. 2) disconnect the printer that had problems and remove it's
drivers
Test for the problem. 3) download and install the latest drivers for
all
your other hardware. Test for the problem, and so on and so on until
it's
solved. It may very well end up that something, hardware or software,
is
not
compatible with SP2. Until you eliminate all the other possibilities
you'll
never know.

Kerry



"Kerry Brown" wrote:

"Al Waschka" wrote in message
...
My defective SP2 installation is on Drive0
My working pre-SP2 installation is on Drive1
When 0 will not start, if I switch boot device in CMOS to 1,
windows
comes
up, as expected.
If I then switch back to 0, IT WORKS!
But then, if I cycle power, i.e. shutdown followed by startup, it
hangs
again.

That's nice, but it doesn't answer my question. :-) Did you reset
the
CMOS
via the jumper on the motherboard after flashing the BIOS? Failure
to
do
this can sometimes cause erratic results like you are describing.
This
may
not solve the problem but it eliminates one possible cause.

Kerry











  #15  
Old June 5th 05, 02:02 AM
Kerry Brown
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Shooter" fhasfdjh@AlkjdaF@com wrote in message
...
On Sat, 4 Jun 2005 14:10:01 -0700, "Al Waschka"
wrote:

Microsoft should not put out service packs (and hypoe them as being next
to
essential) without letting people know what the compatibility issues are.


That same exact observation has been made before on here many times
and each time that observation generated posts defending MS as if MS
needed defending... Hummmmm. It also generated the usual expected
venom from one specific MVP of which always attacks anyone that has
the audacity to question anything MS does.

To those of common sense and who are not mindless clones, your are
right in your observation my friend.

Regards,



Am I missing something? I didn't see any posts from any MVP's in this
thread.

Kerry


 




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