USB stick leaking

I used a Lexar USB stick yesterday to boot a computer. I haven't used the
stick intensively, but now I noticed that it is leaking sticky stuff from
the seam on the sides. Any idea what the stuff is? Is it toxic? Can I keep
using the stick normally?



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Linea Recta wrote:

I used a Lexar USB stick yesterday to boot a computer.

Yep, sure, Lexar has only one model of USB drive. See:
http://www.lexar.com/products/usb-flash-drives.html

I haven't used the stick intensively, but now I noticed that it is
leaking sticky stuff from the seam on the sides. Any idea what the
stuff is? Is it toxic? Can I keep using the stick normally?

Inside a legit USB drive, there is a PCB, chips, connector, and some
solder. None of that leaks. Some use silicon to seal them. Maybe this
is the goo that overheated and is leaking out.

http://blog.premiumusb.com/2011/02/w...drive-get-hot/

They all heat up with use. A plastic shell versus a metal shell only
changes the thermal transfer rate; i.e., a metal shelled USB drive may
feel hotter than a plastic one - but they both generate heat during use.
Defective ones get hot. USB ports can go bad and supply too much
current. Some users plug into charging-capable USB ports designed for
smartphones, not USB flash drives. Test plugging if another USB device
into the same port (and not a charging USB port) also heats up too much.
Condensation inside the shell can cause shorts (that cause heating up)
or corrode contacts (causing heat due to increased resistance).

Yours overheated. Return it under warranty.

Linea Recta wrote:
I used a Lexar USB stick yesterday to boot a computer. I haven't used
the stick intensively, but now I noticed that it is leaking sticky stuff
from the seam on the sides. Any idea what the stuff is? Is it toxic? Can
I keep using the stick normally?


All the Lexars I have here (three of them) have the same
mechanical design. I've taken two of them apart, because
they failed and no longer function.

There is the bottom tub, the PCB and connector which slide
back and forth, and a white top cover. The top cover has
four prongs that snap into place. There are no liquids inside.

__P__________P__
/ \
| |
\________________/
P P

You can release the top cover and get it out.
That's the white part in this picture.

https://www.amazon.com/Lexar-JumpDri.../dp/B007B6YPNY

*******

Lexar makes many many different drives, and not all use
the same packaging.

*******

Ordinary USB flash drives, do not have thermal control.
Any heat dissipated, could flow through the metal connector
barrel (except for those cheap-ass Lexars with the plastic
barrel, which I recommend you avoid).

In terms of hardware design, if you want thermal control, you need:

1) Thermally conductive cover. Some SSDs use a metal sled for this.
2) Sil Pad or thermal paste. If something in a drive gets really hot,
you can use a Sil Pad as an intermediary, to conduct heat into the
cover.

Since USB flash drives, a lot of them have plastic covers, using
Sil Pads or thermal paste would be a waste of materials.

For a metal-jacketed product, the metal itself may be good
enough to encourage a lower internal temperature.

If a component becomes really hot, using a Sil Pad to
conduct from the chip to the cover might work. It depends
on dimensional analysis, whether a Sil Pad will work,
or curable silicon rubber is needed. Generally, thermal control
materials are too expensive for throwaway items like USB
sticks. The roll of Sil Pads we had at work, cost $500.00
per roll.

The color and consistency of the material may suggest what
it is. If the stuff is a bright white color, that could be
Zinc Oxide in silicone oil. The ones I've used, the oil
quickly separates and leaves the area. Leaving a spotty
Zinc Oxide residue to support cooling.

http://www.mgchemicals.com/products/...r-compound-860

Real thermal pastes, are made from a more viscous substrate.
Some are so thick, they resemble "crumbly cookie dough" and
they're hard to spread into place. Those should not leak a
liquid. There are thinner ones, like a graphite-like material
in a less viscous oil substrate.

It would not be in the best interest of the company, to
use a liquid toxic substance in the construction. But,
you never know. There have been assemblies built in
electronics which are very dangerous (beryllia substrate).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beryllium_oxide

"BeO is carcinogenic and may cause chronic beryllium disease.
Once fired into solid form, it is safe to handle if not
subjected to machining that generates dust."

Some older products, there would be a warning sticker saying
"not to grind" the item the warning sticker was adhered to. Because
it was made of beryllia. That's the nastiest example I can think of.

Paul

"Linea Recta" schreef in bericht
news
I used a Lexar USB stick yesterday to boot a computer. I haven't used the
stick intensively, but now I noticed that it is leaking sticky stuff from
the seam on the sides. Any idea what the stuff is? Is it toxic? Can I keep
using the stick normally?



--


|\ /|
| \/ |@rk
\../
\/os



The stick looks like this one:

https://www.amazon.com/Lexar-JumpDri.../dp/B0021AFWL4


but I took a magnifying glass to read what's exactly on mine:

lexar LJDTT4GB-000-1001AC
333074GBGA
N12610

product of China




--


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| \/ |@rk
\../
\/os

"Paul" schreef in bericht
news
Linea Recta wrote:
I used a Lexar USB stick yesterday to boot a computer. I haven't used the
stick intensively, but now I noticed that it is leaking sticky stuff from
the seam on the sides. Any idea what the stuff is? Is it toxic? Can I
keep using the stick normally?


All the Lexars I have here (three of them) have the same
mechanical design. I've taken two of them apart, because
they failed and no longer function.

There is the bottom tub, the PCB and connector which slide
back and forth, and a white top cover. The top cover has
four prongs that snap into place. There are no liquids inside.

__P__________P__
/ \
| |
\________________/
P P

You can release the top cover and get it out.
That's the white part in this picture.

https://www.amazon.com/Lexar-JumpDri.../dp/B007B6YPNY

*******

Lexar makes many many different drives, and not all use
the same packaging.

*******

Ordinary USB flash drives, do not have thermal control.
Any heat dissipated, could flow through the metal connector
barrel (except for those cheap-ass Lexars with the plastic
barrel, which I recommend you avoid).

In terms of hardware design, if you want thermal control, you need:

1) Thermally conductive cover. Some SSDs use a metal sled for this.
2) Sil Pad or thermal paste. If something in a drive gets really hot,
you can use a Sil Pad as an intermediary, to conduct heat into the
cover.

Since USB flash drives, a lot of them have plastic covers, using
Sil Pads or thermal paste would be a waste of materials.

For a metal-jacketed product, the metal itself may be good
enough to encourage a lower internal temperature.

If a component becomes really hot, using a Sil Pad to
conduct from the chip to the cover might work. It depends
on dimensional analysis, whether a Sil Pad will work,
or curable silicon rubber is needed. Generally, thermal control
materials are too expensive for throwaway items like USB
sticks. The roll of Sil Pads we had at work, cost $500.00
per roll.

The color and consistency of the material may suggest what
it is. If the stuff is a bright white color, that could be
Zinc Oxide in silicone oil. The ones I've used, the oil
quickly separates and leaves the area. Leaving a spotty
Zinc Oxide residue to support cooling.

http://www.mgchemicals.com/products/...r-compound-860

Real thermal pastes, are made from a more viscous substrate.
Some are so thick, they resemble "crumbly cookie dough" and
they're hard to spread into place. Those should not leak a
liquid. There are thinner ones, like a graphite-like material
in a less viscous oil substrate.

It would not be in the best interest of the company, to
use a liquid toxic substance in the construction. But,
you never know. There have been assemblies built in
electronics which are very dangerous (beryllia substrate).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beryllium_oxide

"BeO is carcinogenic and may cause chronic beryllium disease.
Once fired into solid form, it is safe to handle if not
subjected to machining that generates dust."

Some older products, there would be a warning sticker saying
"not to grind" the item the warning sticker was adhered to. Because
it was made of beryllia. That's the nastiest example I can think of.

Paul



Thanks for the info.
Mine is quite old indeed, but as said: not intensively used. I have several
other sticks of different make and indeed... with metal case.
BTW I had no idea that a USB stick is regarded as "throwaway item".

(For details see my second message in the thread.)



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\/os

Linea Recta wrote:

"Linea Recta" ...

I used a Lexar USB stick yesterday to boot a computer. I haven't used
the stick intensively, but now I noticed that it is leaking sticky
stuff from the seam on the sides. Any idea what the stuff is? Is it
toxic? Can I keep using the stick normally?

The stick looks like this one:

https://www.amazon.com/Lexar-JumpDri.../dp/B0021AFWL4

but I took a magnifying glass to read what's exactly on mine:

lexar LJDTT4GB-000-1001AC
333074GBGA
N12610

product of China

http://www.lexar.com/products/usb-fl...ash-Drive.html

Those are not listed as waterproof/resistant so there should be no
silicone filling to ooze out (but shouldn't anyway since, when it set,
silicone is not going to ooze but burn from an overheated chip).

Is what oozed out soft or hard? Is it like paste that you can smoosh
between your fingers, like toothpaste? Is it rubbery, like silicone
caulking? It is hard, like the plastic shell itself?

Linea Recta wrote:
"Linea Recta" schreef in bericht
news
I used a Lexar USB stick yesterday to boot a computer. I haven't used
the stick intensively, but now I noticed that it is leaking sticky
stuff from the seam on the sides. Any idea what the stuff is? Is it
toxic? Can I keep using the stick normally?



--


|\ /|
| \/ |@rk
\../
\/os



The stick looks like this one:

https://www.amazon.com/Lexar-JumpDri.../dp/B0021AFWL4



but I took a magnifying glass to read what's exactly on mine:

lexar LJDTT4GB-000-1001AC
333074GBGA
N12610

product of China

LJDTT4GBASBNA

The Amazon reviews say average write is 3.2MB/sec, average read
is 18.2MB/sec. It's an old style single channel flash, and should
not run hot, and should not need any liquids or pastes inside.
There are the usual reports of failures, but none involving
liquids or sticky substances.

I would have the hack saw out by now, and cut it in half...

For thermal paste, they recommend soap and water for cleanup,
or maybe a bit of GooGone (monoterpene limonene a.k.a orange oil).
Thermal paste doesn't go that well on crackers, even though it
looks like a good spread for canapés.

Sil Pads contain their contents pretty well, and only
extreme pressure on them, might cause the carrier to ooze out.
The item just doesn't look like it needs that kind of thing.

Paul

On Thu, 20 Apr 2017 17:36:38 -0400, Paul
wrote:

Linea Recta wrote:
"Linea Recta" schreef in bericht
news
I used a Lexar USB stick yesterday to boot a computer. I haven't used
the stick intensively, but now I noticed that it is leaking sticky
stuff from the seam on the sides. Any idea what the stuff is? Is it
toxic? Can I keep using the stick normally?



--


|\ /|
| \/ |@rk
\../
\/os



The stick looks like this one:

https://www.amazon.com/Lexar-JumpDri.../dp/B0021AFWL4



but I took a magnifying glass to read what's exactly on mine:

lexar LJDTT4GB-000-1001AC
333074GBGA
N12610

product of China

LJDTT4GBASBNA

The Amazon reviews say average write is 3.2MB/sec, average read
is 18.2MB/sec. It's an old style single channel flash, and should
not run hot, and should not need any liquids or pastes inside.
There are the usual reports of failures, but none involving
liquids or sticky substances.

I would have the hack saw out by now, and cut it in half...



Then each half world only be 2GB--not enough to be really useful.
vbg

"VanguardLH" schreef in bericht
...
Linea Recta wrote:

"Linea Recta" ...

I used a Lexar USB stick yesterday to boot a computer. I haven't used
the stick intensively, but now I noticed that it is leaking sticky
stuff from the seam on the sides. Any idea what the stuff is? Is it
toxic? Can I keep using the stick normally?

The stick looks like this one:

https://www.amazon.com/Lexar-JumpDri.../dp/B0021AFWL4

but I took a magnifying glass to read what's exactly on mine:

lexar LJDTT4GB-000-1001AC
333074GBGA
N12610

product of China

http://www.lexar.com/products/usb-fl...ash-Drive.html

Those are not listed as waterproof/resistant so there should be no
silicone filling to ooze out (but shouldn't anyway since, when it set,
silicone is not going to ooze but burn from an overheated chip).

Is what oozed out soft or hard? Is it like paste that you can smoosh
between your fingers, like toothpaste? Is it rubbery, like silicone
caulking? It is hard, like the plastic shell itself?



It is sticky and quite soft. Colour: transparent yellowish.
I tried to clean it, but it seems the red colour of the case comes off
now...
BTW I'm not aware the stick ran hot.




--


|\ /|
| \/ |@rk
\../
\/os

Linea Recta wrote:

"VanguardLH" schreef in bericht
...
Linea Recta wrote:

"Linea Recta" ...

I used a Lexar USB stick yesterday to boot a computer. I haven't used
the stick intensively, but now I noticed that it is leaking sticky
stuff from the seam on the sides. Any idea what the stuff is? Is it
toxic? Can I keep using the stick normally?

The stick looks like this one:

https://www.amazon.com/Lexar-JumpDri.../dp/B0021AFWL4

but I took a magnifying glass to read what's exactly on mine:

lexar LJDTT4GB-000-1001AC
333074GBGA
N12610

product of China

http://www.lexar.com/products/usb-fl...ash-Drive.html

Those are not listed as waterproof/resistant so there should be no
silicone filling to ooze out (but shouldn't anyway since, when it set,
silicone is not going to ooze but burn from an overheated chip).

Is what oozed out soft or hard? Is it like paste that you can smoosh
between your fingers, like toothpaste? Is it rubbery, like silicone
caulking? It is hard, like the plastic shell itself?

It is sticky and quite soft. Colour: transparent yellowish.
I tried to clean it, but it seems the red colour of the case comes off
now...
BTW I'm not aware the stick ran hot.

"transparent yellowish" had me first think it was solder rosin (aka
resin aka flux); however, the chips, connector, and other components are
wave soldered onto the PCB. If rosin were oozing out, I'd suspect
someone refurbished the device by, for example, replacing the memory
chip and they had to use a rework station that employed rosin to assist
in removing the chip, dewicking the solder off the chip, and later when
soldering the new chip onto the pads on the PCB. When using rosin, and
in a rework lab, there is usually a bath where the parts are dipped or
sprayed to remove the excess rosin. Another possibility is excessive
application of rosin during original manufacturer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CalydGKwEy8

That shows a guy removing a memory chip and noticed there was excessive
rosin left behind. Rosin doesn't flow at room temperature. That's why
it stays in the core of solder thread that incorporates solder inside of
it. It does flow when heated. Just because it doesn't feel hot to you
does not mean the chip(s) was not hot. All USB flash drives generate
heat. A plastic case has a slower transfer rate than metal. That means
a plastic cased USB flash drive will dissipate heat more slowly and it
also means you won't feel as much heat. A metal cased drive will feel
hotter to the touch than with the same PCB and components on it inside
of a plastic case.

The shell is typically 2 halves made of plastic that are snapped
together. Maybe the soft stuff was a sealant. I'm guessing rosin.
Original manufacture would leave almost no rosin behind. Little, if
any, would be used during original manufacture and if any were used then
the PCB goes through a bath to remove the rosin. Maybe you got a
remanufactured device. Refurbished usually means just testing and
passing the device on if testing is successful. Most times, refurbish
has nothing physically done to the device. Remanufacture means
rebuilding some of it.

I don't have any of those so I cannot pop one apart to look inside.
Haven't found a Youtube video about USB drive disassembly that looks at
that specific brand and model. The above video is for a Lexar JumpDrive
but a different model. The video author noticed excess rosin on the
memory chip at timemark 5:50. He uses a hot air desoldering station
which does not apply any flux. What he noted on the memory chip was
already there. The flux was on the underside of the chip (between chip
and PCB). So the manufacture process used flux (rosin) but did not do a
good job at washing it off. It is a tight fit between chip and board
but the flux was all over the bottomside of the chip. Seems Lexar's
manufacture process is sloppy with rosin since it only needs to be
applied for soldering the pins on the chip and nowhere as much on the
pins as what is shown sticking to the bottomside of this chip in this
video. Sloppy manufacture.

VanguardLH wrote:
Linea Recta wrote:

"VanguardLH" schreef in bericht
...
Linea Recta wrote:

"Linea Recta" ...

I used a Lexar USB stick yesterday to boot a computer. I haven't used
the stick intensively, but now I noticed that it is leaking sticky
stuff from the seam on the sides. Any idea what the stuff is? Is it
toxic? Can I keep using the stick normally?
The stick looks like this one:

https://www.amazon.com/Lexar-JumpDri.../dp/B0021AFWL4

but I took a magnifying glass to read what's exactly on mine:

lexar LJDTT4GB-000-1001AC
333074GBGA
N12610

product of China
http://www.lexar.com/products/usb-fl...ash-Drive.html

Those are not listed as waterproof/resistant so there should be no
silicone filling to ooze out (but shouldn't anyway since, when it set,
silicone is not going to ooze but burn from an overheated chip).

Is what oozed out soft or hard? Is it like paste that you can smoosh
between your fingers, like toothpaste? Is it rubbery, like silicone
caulking? It is hard, like the plastic shell itself?
It is sticky and quite soft. Colour: transparent yellowish.
I tried to clean it, but it seems the red colour of the case comes off
now...
BTW I'm not aware the stick ran hot.

"transparent yellowish" had me first think it was solder rosin (aka
resin aka flux); however, the chips, connector, and other components are
wave soldered onto the PCB. If rosin were oozing out

Well, maybe. Some of the USB flash sticks are double sided, and would
use double-IR reflow, with water soluble flux (used with the new solders).
The flux is washed off after the soldering steps. (Gone are the days when
the washing machine was filled with trike, and the fluid was filthy and
left a film.) I worked early enough in the industry, to receive boards
that were improperly washed with the old solvent.

I worked early enough, to see our own blank PCB manufacturing facility.
With tanks of vile dark fluids (etchant and plate-up), the press for
laminating the boards, and so on. Later, all that work was farmed out,
and the PCB plant removed. The plant for that was poorly lit, and it
looked like a medieval torture chamber of some sort.

*******

The USB connector would be a different matter, as some of those
are thru-hole. So the entire manufacturing process may require
three steps. With the USB keys done in large sheets, and sawed
up afterwards. You could not run a item like that through a
standard manufacturing line, because it's too small. The boards
usually have a keepout zone on the edges, so the board can ride on
rails as it goes through the IR oven. I'm not aware of the
details of how they're sawed and milled later. At one time,
a cruder technique (tiny boards snapped off along a perforation
line) was the technique of the day. But professionally prepared
product today seems to be milled on all edges. I didn't see
any kind of milling, sawing, or cleaving equipment at my work.

I didn't live at the factory, and only got to visit. We didn't
have a "tightly integrated" manufacturing organization, so I
was spared frequent, long drives, to the factory. One other
company in town, the "factory" is only a hundred feet from
your desk. And you'd never get a moments peace.

*******

I can't think of a material that's a good match for "transparent yellowish"
and belongs on an electronics board. And is chemically strong
enough to remove a finish on the chassis. Normally, any chemicals
are precisely applied, and the curing steps are finished well
before the product leaves the factory.

If BGA chips are used on the PCB, the ball count is low enough
that "underfill" is not required. The material that is used
for underfill, may fit that description. Underfill is used
on things like GPUs or maybe a Northbridge or Southbridge.
Maybe around 1500 balls or so, could use some underfill,
especially if diurnal temperature variation has a wide
enough swing (GPUs that get burning hot). Underfill is used
for stress relief, so the solder balls don't crack or shear off.

If you want to learn more about underfill materials, most have
patents, so you can track down the chemistry that way.

Paul

On 04/20/2017 10:30 AM, Wolf K wrote:
On 2017-04-20 13:13, Linea Recta wrote:
I used a Lexar USB stick yesterday to boot a computer. I haven't used the
stick intensively, but now I noticed that it is leaking sticky stuff from
the seam on the sides. Any idea what the stuff is? Is it toxic? Can I
keep
using the stick normally?

Probably glue, reacting with the plastic's filler. Or filler itself.
Filler is used to control hardness, colour, flexibility, etc. In cheap
plastics, it will react with air (oxygen), water, etc.

I'd copy everything off it, maybe try to fix it, more likely trash it.
Lexar is a good brand, I wonder if you purchased a fake.


1+

Kanguru and Kingston are also good brands

[]
"Linea Recta" schreef in bericht
news I used a Lexar USB stick yesterday to boot a computer. I haven't used
the stick intensively, but now I noticed that it is leaking sticky
stuff from the seam on the sides. Any idea what the stuff is? Is it
toxic? Can I keep using the stick normally?
[]
An AMAZING amount of analysis from everybody!

Since nobody seems to think it _really_ is coming out (or at least
no-one can think of anything there'd be enough of to be oozing as
described), could it be that you - or someone in your household - has
dropped it in something, or dropped something on it (possibly from
something leaking above it), such that it just _looks_ as if it's coming
out?

[Does it smell or taste funny/good/bad? No responsibility taken if you
try, mind (-:!]
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Sometimes you win, sometimes you learn.

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
[]
"Linea Recta" schreef in bericht
news I used a Lexar USB stick yesterday to boot a computer. I haven't used
the stick intensively, but now I noticed that it is leaking sticky
stuff from the seam on the sides. Any idea what the stuff is? Is it
toxic? Can I keep using the stick normally?
[]
An AMAZING amount of analysis from everybody!

Since nobody seems to think it _really_ is coming out (or at least
no-one can think of anything there'd be enough of to be oozing as
described), could it be that you - or someone in your household - has
dropped it in something, or dropped something on it (possibly from
something leaking above it), such that it just _looks_ as if it's coming
out?

[Does it smell or taste funny/good/bad? No responsibility taken if you
try, mind (-:!]

We were taught in chem class, not to do that :-) Naughty.

And the reason for the warning, is early chemists did this,
and some died of cancer. And the cancer type, correlated with
the sampling method (cancer of the tongue, mouth, etc).

Even the scientists who worked on radioactive elements,
had the misfortune to succumb to the stuff they were
working on.

Learning is hard.

Hindsight is perfect.

*******

I would think, if the compound had a smell, if would have
been mentioned by now :-)

When I took chem, one of the things you have to do, is you're
given an unknown organic compound, and you have to identify it.
You spend an entire term, one lab a week, trying various
instrumentation methods on it.

Now, being a clever noob, I immediately did a melting point
determination on mine. That reduced the set of possible compounds
to around 200 of them or so. (Using the CRC Chem tables which
are sorted by melting point.) And it's a good thing I did that
right away. Because soon after, the compound started to break
down on its own. And the byproducts smelled like... ****. Every
time I had to open the sample bottle, to get a little bit of
the stuff to place in some test instrument (NRM, Mass Spec, CHN),
I had to put up with that stink. No, we don't go out of our way
to sniff stuff like that :-) I'm sure the staff member in the
chem department who selected that compound, knew what they were
doing. Every student was given a unique compound, so you could
not compare notes and cheat. And the compounds seemed to be
pure when we received them. You grabbed a numbered sample bottle,
and off you went. And no, none of the compounds were "easy"
like something from this page.

http://www.chm.bris.ac.uk/motm/ethylacetate/smells.htm

During open house at the university chem lab, one lab
used to synthesize some of those for... sniffing :-)

Probably by the time you've taken high school chem,
you've made something from that web page. Maybe
methyl salicylate ? That one is pretty easy.

Paul

In message , Paul
writes:
J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
[]
"Linea Recta" schreef in bericht
news I used a Lexar USB stick yesterday to boot a computer. I haven't used
the stick intensively, but now I noticed that it is leaking sticky
stuff from the seam on the sides. Any idea what the stuff is? Is it
toxic? Can I keep using the stick normally?
[]
An AMAZING amount of analysis from everybody!
Since nobody seems to think it _really_ is coming out (or at least
no-one can think of anything there'd be enough of to be oozing as
described), could it be that you - or someone in your household - has
dropped it in something, or dropped something on it (possibly from
something leaking above it), such that it just _looks_ as if it's coming out?
[Does it smell or taste funny/good/bad? No responsibility taken if
you try, mind (-:!]

We were taught in chem class, not to do that :-) Naughty.

Hence my final few words!

So far (I'm nearly 57) I've survived having such an enquiring mind ...

And the reason for the warning, is early chemists did this,
and some died of cancer. And the cancer type, correlated with
the sampling method (cancer of the tongue, mouth, etc).

Certainly, those who made luminous instruments (for aircraft for use in
the dark, certain wris****ches, etc.), which used to be made with
radium-laden paint, suffered because they tended to lick their
paintbrushes to get a good point on them ...
[]
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

After I'm dead I'd rather have people ask why I have no monument than why I
have one. -Cato the Elder, statesman, soldier, and writer (234-149 BCE)