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#16
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Converting From 1 TB to 2 TB via Macrium Reflect Re-Image: Partitions?
"Ed Cryer" wrote
| I've just commissioned a new box of Win10 tricks. And I followed my | usual course. | Find fault with this for me - and give me nightmares. I didn't know I was the dark cloud guy. I think whatever works for you is fine. I view my approach as the best for a number of reasons, but your reasons might be different. Also, I've used BootIt for this for many years. I don't know whether Macrium has all the same functionality. I don't try to save money when it comes to disk tools. BootIt was $40 but it makes all disk-related jobs simple. For me it's been about partitions and disk images since Win9x. Back then I used Drive Image and Partition Magic to enable multi-booting and maintain disk images. Every computer I build or repair gets the same treatment: Install, clean it up, get rid of extra boot or recovery partitions, add data partitions, make a disk image of a basic, cleaned up system and back that up to both a data partition and DVDs. Also, I always have 2 disks installed in my own box, in case one dies. So every computer I have has multiple disk image backups ready to go in if anything goes wrong. No muss, no fuss, no boot- or restore- partition mess to deal with. No dependency on hard disk life. My Win9x images used to always fit on a CD. My basic XP disk image fits on a CD. My full XP image, with all software set up, easily fits on a DVD. My Win7 backups easily fit on 2 DVDs. As far as speed, I'm not concerned about that because once I have disk images I only back up data. I can do that quickly and easily while I'm doing other things because I separate it into categories: 1) Timely data that changes, like work receipts, email, etc. 2) Data that rarely changes and only needs occasional backup: graphics, video, software installers, docs for various things, etc. It all gets copied to both disks. The timely backup data is all on one partition and I just write it periodically to a DVD. If you're backing up 100 GB that's not really a disk image. That's just backup. And you need an extra disk or large size USB stick to store it because 95% of what you're backing up isn't necessary. I think of it like a tractor trailer. The OS/software is the tractor. The data is in the trailer. (Data partitions.) They're two fundamentally different kinds of binaries. One's the tools, the other's the content. It makes no sense to have the two stuck together, in the same way that if you're shipping a truck full of produce you don't need to lose it all just because the engine breaks down in the desert. Rather, you hook up a new tractor front-end and keep driving. But I know that some people deeply disagree with that logic. Some people feel very strongly that data partitions don't make sense.... There's no accounting for taste. |
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#17
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Converting From 1 TB to 2 TB via Macrium Reflect Re-Image:Partitions?
Mayayana wrote:
"Ed Cryer" wrote | I've just commissioned a new box of Win10 tricks. And I followed my | usual course. | Find fault with this for me - and give me nightmares. I didn't know I was the dark cloud guy. I think whatever works for you is fine. I view my approach as the best for a number of reasons, but your reasons might be different. Also, I've used BootIt for this for many years. I don't know whether Macrium has all the same functionality. I don't try to save money when it comes to disk tools. BootIt was $40 but it makes all disk-related jobs simple. For me it's been about partitions and disk images since Win9x. Back then I used Drive Image and Partition Magic to enable multi-booting and maintain disk images. Every computer I build or repair gets the same treatment: Install, clean it up, get rid of extra boot or recovery partitions, add data partitions, make a disk image of a basic, cleaned up system and back that up to both a data partition and DVDs. Also, I always have 2 disks installed in my own box, in case one dies. So every computer I have has multiple disk image backups ready to go in if anything goes wrong. No muss, no fuss, no boot- or restore- partition mess to deal with. No dependency on hard disk life. My Win9x images used to always fit on a CD. My basic XP disk image fits on a CD. My full XP image, with all software set up, easily fits on a DVD. My Win7 backups easily fit on 2 DVDs. As far as speed, I'm not concerned about that because once I have disk images I only back up data. I can do that quickly and easily while I'm doing other things because I separate it into categories: 1) Timely data that changes, like work receipts, email, etc. 2) Data that rarely changes and only needs occasional backup: graphics, video, software installers, docs for various things, etc. It all gets copied to both disks. The timely backup data is all on one partition and I just write it periodically to a DVD. If you're backing up 100 GB that's not really a disk image. That's just backup. And you need an extra disk or large size USB stick to store it because 95% of what you're backing up isn't necessary. I think of it like a tractor trailer. The OS/software is the tractor. The data is in the trailer. (Data partitions.) They're two fundamentally different kinds of binaries. One's the tools, the other's the content. It makes no sense to have the two stuck together, in the same way that if you're shipping a truck full of produce you don't need to lose it all just because the engine breaks down in the desert. Rather, you hook up a new tractor front-end and keep driving. But I know that some people deeply disagree with that logic. Some people feel very strongly that data partitions don't make sense.... There's no accounting for taste. I think the big PC manufacturers would agree with you about data partitions. I've seen Acer, PcSpecialist and HP brand new PCs quite recently, and they all came with partitions C and D; the latter named "Data", the former something like Acer (C). Mind you, everything is on the C. The D is empty, like Old Mother Hubbard's cupboard. Ed |
#18
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Converting From 1 TB to 2 TB via Macrium Reflect Re-Image: Partitions?
Char Jackson wrote:
On Tue, 19 Jun 2018 10:54:04 -0400, "(PeteCresswell)" wrote: Per Mayayana: I don't know why you think the HP partition is critical. I always delete those. It's only useful if you don't have backed up disk images of C. That was my knee-jerk reaction: just delete it. But when I do that, the system boots up throwing a dialog that reads something like "Desktop.ini not found" and there's basically an empty desktop - so I jumped to the assumption that the HP partition contained some files used day-to-day. Vanguard, Paul, John, and you have given me hope. I had thrown in the towel and just re-imaged to an old 1TB backup drive - but now I think I will re-visit the scene with the 2TB drive. First thing I will try is looking for Macrium's Resize-Partition option. If that doesn't happen, I'll move on to Paul's approach and, if that does not work out, will start looking for a partition manager that will do the job. I would recommend using VanguardLH's approach first. Grab a partition manager and be amazed at how easy it is to do what you're trying to do. My choice is the Minitool Partition Wizard, which he linked, but the others should work as well. No need to do another Macrium restore, and (sorry Paul!) no need to do multiple restores. A partition manager will have you sorted within a few minutes. You realize they're not multiple restores. You restore partitions one at a time. Two partitions are restored first (since both are part of the boot OS, Macrium will use its boot repair logic when these are done as a pair). Then the fourth partition is restored separately. Then the third partition is restored separately (can be resized as well, or do the resize step in Disk Management). This operation also does not require "backup and restore" and can be done with the Macrium "cloning" option. Clone the first two partitions. Clone the fourth. Clone the third. Since the original partitions are not in partition table order, after the restore they will be in physical order. If you follow the order in the original post, partition table entries 1 2 3 4 point to partitions 1 2 3 4 spread in that order across the disk. Paul |
#19
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Converting From 1 TB to 2 TB via Macrium Reflect Re-Image: Partitions?
Ed Cryer wrote:
[...] I think the big PC manufacturers would agree with you about data partitions. I've seen Acer, PcSpecialist and HP brand new PCs quite recently, and they all came with partitions C and D; the latter named "Data", the former something like Acer (C). Mind you, everything is on the C. The D is empty, like Old Mother Hubbard's cupboard. Out of interest: In your example(s), are C and D on disk, or is C on a SSD and D on a HDD? And are these PCs 'desktops' or (also) laptops? FWIW, lately, I see mostly ads for laptops with only a SSD, often not larger than 256GB, or with a SSD and a 1 or 2TB HDD. |
#20
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Converting From 1 TB to 2 TB via Macrium Reflect Re-Image: Partitions?
A little earlier, I wrote:
Ed Cryer wrote: [...] I think the big PC manufacturers would agree with you about data partitions. I've seen Acer, PcSpecialist and HP brand new PCs quite recently, and they all came with partitions C and D; the latter named "Data", the former something like Acer (C). Mind you, everything is on the C. The D is empty, like Old Mother Hubbard's cupboard. Out of interest: In your example(s), are C and D on disk, or is C on a SSD and D on a HDD? And are these PCs 'desktops' or (also) laptops? Oops, typo: Out of interest: In your example(s), are C and D one disk, or is C on a SSD and D on a HDD? And are these PCs 'desktops' or (also) laptops? FWIW, lately, I see mostly ads for laptops with only a SSD, often not larger than 256GB, or with a SSD and a 1 or 2TB HDD. |
#21
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Converting From 1 TB to 2 TB via Macrium Reflect Re-Image: Partitions?
On Tue, 19 Jun 2018 14:14:05 -0400, Paul wrote:
Char Jackson wrote: On Tue, 19 Jun 2018 10:54:04 -0400, "(PeteCresswell)" wrote: Per Mayayana: I don't know why you think the HP partition is critical. I always delete those. It's only useful if you don't have backed up disk images of C. That was my knee-jerk reaction: just delete it. But when I do that, the system boots up throwing a dialog that reads something like "Desktop.ini not found" and there's basically an empty desktop - so I jumped to the assumption that the HP partition contained some files used day-to-day. Vanguard, Paul, John, and you have given me hope. I had thrown in the towel and just re-imaged to an old 1TB backup drive - but now I think I will re-visit the scene with the 2TB drive. First thing I will try is looking for Macrium's Resize-Partition option. If that doesn't happen, I'll move on to Paul's approach and, if that does not work out, will start looking for a partition manager that will do the job. I would recommend using VanguardLH's approach first. Grab a partition manager and be amazed at how easy it is to do what you're trying to do. My choice is the Minitool Partition Wizard, which he linked, but the others should work as well. No need to do another Macrium restore, and (sorry Paul!) no need to do multiple restores. A partition manager will have you sorted within a few minutes. You realize they're not multiple restores. You restore partitions one at a time. Right, I understood what you were saying. I'm just saying that that's completely over the top because a partition manager is much better suited to do the task. Your method is for those corner cases where something goes wrong, but that won't be the case for 99.99% of people. It's good to have in your back pocket, just in case, but it's extremely unlikely that anyone will have to pull it out and use it. Just grab a decent partition manager, click slide click, and enjoy the rest of your day. Easy peasy. -- Char Jackson |
#22
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Converting From 1 TB to 2 TB via Macrium Reflect Re-Image: Partitions?
In message , Ed Cryer
writes: Mayayana wrote: "Ed Cryer" wrote | I've just commissioned a new box of Win10 tricks. And I followed my | usual course. | Find fault with this for me - and give me nightmares. [] If you're backing up 100 GB that's not really a disk image. That's just backup. And you need an extra disk or large size USB stick to store it because 95% of what you're backing up isn't necessary. I think of it like a tractor trailer. The OS/software is the tractor. The data is in the trailer. (Data partitions.) They're two fundamentally different kinds of binaries. One's the tools, the other's the content. The other way - the default, that you and I aren't fond of - is an RV. It makes no sense to have the two stuck together, in the same way that if you're shipping a truck full of produce you don't need to lose it all just because the engine breaks down in the desert. Rather, you hook up a new tractor front-end and keep driving. But I know that some people deeply disagree with that logic. Some people feel very strongly that data partitions don't make sense.... There's no accounting for taste. I think the big PC manufacturers would agree with you about data partitions. I've seen Acer, PcSpecialist and HP brand new PCs quite recently, and they all came with partitions C and D; the latter named "Data", the former something like Acer (C). Mind you, everything is on the C. The D is empty, like Old Mother Hubbard's cupboard. Ed Except that (a) they _default_ to making C: and D: the same size (though can usually be adjusted if the user knows to do so at first turn-on when these are set up), and (b) there _really_ needs to me a change by both Microsoft and software producers, to make things _default_ - on installation - to use D: if it exists. And (b) is not going to happen, is it )-: - though I don't know why, other than very petty saving of effort. -- J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf Old people today - they don't know they're born! They should stay where they belong: on the main stage at Glastonbury. - The Now Show, 2015-7-10&11 |
#23
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Converting From 1 TB to 2 TB via Macrium Reflect Re-Image:Partitions?
J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , Ed Cryer writes: Mayayana wrote: "Ed Cryer" wrote | I've just commissioned a new box of Win10 tricks. And I followed my | usual course. | Find fault with this for me - and give me nightmares. [] Â*Â*Â* If you're backing up 100 GB that's not really a disk image. That's just backup. And you need an extra disk or large size USB stick to store it because 95% of what you're backing up isn't necessary. Â*Â*Â* I think of it like a tractor trailer. The OS/software is the tractor. The data is in the trailer. (Data partitions.) They're two fundamentally different kinds of binaries. One's the tools, the other's the content. The other way - the default, that you and I aren't fond of - is an RV. Â*Â* It makes no sense to have the two stuck together, in the same way that if you're shipping a truck full of produce you don't need to lose it all just because the engine breaks down in the desert. Rather, you hook up a new tractor front-end and keep driving. Â*Â*Â*Â* But I know that some people deeply disagree with that logic. Some people feel very strongly that data partitions don't make sense.... Â*Â*Â* There's no accounting for taste. I think the big PC manufacturers would agree with you about data partitions. I've seen Acer, PcSpecialist and HP brand new PCs quite recently, and they all came with partitions C and D; the latter named "Data", the former something like Acer (C). Mind you, everything is on the C. The D is empty, like Old Mother Hubbard's cupboard. Ed Except that (a) they _default_ to making C: and D: the same size (though can usually be adjusted if the user knows to do so at first turn-on when these are set up), and (b) there _really_ needs to me a change by both Microsoft and software producers, to make things _default_ - on installation - to use D: if it exists. And (b) is not going to happen, is it )-: - though I don't know why, other than very petty saving of effort. Yes. And that's why we've had people coming to us here. They form a plan to create a C partition as small as possible, with the Data partition holding Program Files etc. And they've screwed it up. They've done things like simply cutting and pasting whole folders; and then the system errors have accumulated until it overwhelms them. Usually this involves installing a small-sized SSD. Ed |
#24
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Converting From 1 TB to 2 TB via Macrium Reflect Re-Image: Partitions?
On Tue, 19 Jun 2018 22:37:50 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
wrote: In message , Ed Cryer writes: Mayayana wrote: "Ed Cryer" wrote | I've just commissioned a new box of Win10 tricks. And I followed my | usual course. | Find fault with this for me - and give me nightmares. [] If you're backing up 100 GB that's not really a disk image. That's just backup. And you need an extra disk or large size USB stick to store it because 95% of what you're backing up isn't necessary. I think of it like a tractor trailer. The OS/software is the tractor. The data is in the trailer. (Data partitions.) They're two fundamentally different kinds of binaries. One's the tools, the other's the content. The other way - the default, that you and I aren't fond of - is an RV. It makes no sense to have the two stuck together, in the same way that if you're shipping a truck full of produce you don't need to lose it all just because the engine breaks down in the desert. Rather, you hook up a new tractor front-end and keep driving. But I know that some people deeply disagree with that logic. Some people feel very strongly that data partitions don't make sense.... There's no accounting for taste. I think the big PC manufacturers would agree with you about data partitions. I've seen Acer, PcSpecialist and HP brand new PCs quite recently, and they all came with partitions C and D; the latter named "Data", the former something like Acer (C). Mind you, everything is on the C. The D is empty, like Old Mother Hubbard's cupboard. Ed Except that (a) they _default_ to making C: and D: the same size (though can usually be adjusted if the user knows to do so at first turn-on when these are set up), It's equally easy to resize partitions later, or as often as required. and (b) there _really_ needs to me a change by both Microsoft and software producers, to make things _default_ - on installation - to use D: if it exists. And (b) is not going to happen, is it )-: - though I don't know why, other than very petty saving of effort. -- Char Jackson |
#25
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Converting From 1 TB to 2 TB via Macrium Reflect Re-Image: Partitions?
Char Jackson wrote:
On Tue, 19 Jun 2018 14:14:05 -0400, Paul wrote: Char Jackson wrote: On Tue, 19 Jun 2018 10:54:04 -0400, "(PeteCresswell)" wrote: Per Mayayana: I don't know why you think the HP partition is critical. I always delete those. It's only useful if you don't have backed up disk images of C. That was my knee-jerk reaction: just delete it. But when I do that, the system boots up throwing a dialog that reads something like "Desktop.ini not found" and there's basically an empty desktop - so I jumped to the assumption that the HP partition contained some files used day-to-day. Vanguard, Paul, John, and you have given me hope. I had thrown in the towel and just re-imaged to an old 1TB backup drive - but now I think I will re-visit the scene with the 2TB drive. First thing I will try is looking for Macrium's Resize-Partition option. If that doesn't happen, I'll move on to Paul's approach and, if that does not work out, will start looking for a partition manager that will do the job. I would recommend using VanguardLH's approach first. Grab a partition manager and be amazed at how easy it is to do what you're trying to do. My choice is the Minitool Partition Wizard, which he linked, but the others should work as well. No need to do another Macrium restore, and (sorry Paul!) no need to do multiple restores. A partition manager will have you sorted within a few minutes. You realize they're not multiple restores. You restore partitions one at a time. Right, I understood what you were saying. I'm just saying that that's completely over the top because a partition manager is much better suited to do the task. Your method is for those corner cases where something goes wrong, but that won't be the case for 99.99% of people. It's good to have in your back pocket, just in case, but it's extremely unlikely that anyone will have to pull it out and use it. Just grab a decent partition manager, click slide click, and enjoy the rest of your day. Easy peasy. My method is SUPERIOR. Data movement occurs ONCE. It goes from ONE DISK TO THE OTHER. NO "HEAD SLAP". Now, knock it off. Paul |
#26
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Converting From 1 TB to 2 TB via Macrium Reflect Re-Image: Partitions?
On Tue, 19 Jun 2018 19:52:53 -0400, Paul wrote:
Char Jackson wrote: On Tue, 19 Jun 2018 14:14:05 -0400, Paul wrote: Char Jackson wrote: On Tue, 19 Jun 2018 10:54:04 -0400, "(PeteCresswell)" wrote: Per Mayayana: I don't know why you think the HP partition is critical. I always delete those. It's only useful if you don't have backed up disk images of C. That was my knee-jerk reaction: just delete it. But when I do that, the system boots up throwing a dialog that reads something like "Desktop.ini not found" and there's basically an empty desktop - so I jumped to the assumption that the HP partition contained some files used day-to-day. Vanguard, Paul, John, and you have given me hope. I had thrown in the towel and just re-imaged to an old 1TB backup drive - but now I think I will re-visit the scene with the 2TB drive. First thing I will try is looking for Macrium's Resize-Partition option. If that doesn't happen, I'll move on to Paul's approach and, if that does not work out, will start looking for a partition manager that will do the job. I would recommend using VanguardLH's approach first. Grab a partition manager and be amazed at how easy it is to do what you're trying to do. My choice is the Minitool Partition Wizard, which he linked, but the others should work as well. No need to do another Macrium restore, and (sorry Paul!) no need to do multiple restores. A partition manager will have you sorted within a few minutes. You realize they're not multiple restores. You restore partitions one at a time. Right, I understood what you were saying. I'm just saying that that's completely over the top because a partition manager is much better suited to do the task. Your method is for those corner cases where something goes wrong, but that won't be the case for 99.99% of people. It's good to have in your back pocket, just in case, but it's extremely unlikely that anyone will have to pull it out and use it. Just grab a decent partition manager, click slide click, and enjoy the rest of your day. Easy peasy. My method is SUPERIOR. Actually, IT'S NOT. When you introduce additional complexity to a task, to any task, you add risk. This is someone's data at stake, so added risk is something that should be avoided. If you stand by your method, that's fine. I can respect that, but I surely wouldn't propose it as a general recipe for the current situation. It has way too many unnecessary steps. Now, knock it off. I'm not sure what that refers to. -- Char Jackson |
#27
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Converting From 1 TB to 2 TB via Macrium Reflect Re-Image: Partitions?
"(PeteCresswell)" wrote
| The situation acts like there is a file (boot block?) somewhere that points | to Partition 0, Partition 1, Partition 2, and so-forth - and, when partitions | are moved around without changing that file, Bad Things happen. Expanding a bit for clarity, yes, the boot needs to be in accord with the partitions, whether you eliminate the system partition and/or the restore partition or not. In Win7 the boot record, BCD, is a binary file that needs an editor, but as an example, here's the XP version, boot.ini: [boot loader] timeout=30 default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOW S [operating systems] multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Micro soft Windows XP Professional" /fastdetect /NoExecute=AlwaysOff /usepmtimer That's my current boot.ini, in C:\ It points to the first disk (0) first partition (1). If I want to put another partition in front I need to change 1 to 2. Likewise, if you have a restore partition then moving it's position may prevent a restore happening unless you manually set that partition active at boot. So you need to know about that, but as long as you know there's no problem moving things around. It seems silly to me to go to this trouble and still leave those 2 junk partitions in place, but as others have said, you certainly can do it. A decent disk utility can "slide" partitions to a different position and can also resize them. Though I'm not sure of the wisdom of picking among freebies to do that. So you could, say, slide the HP partition all the way to the back and enlarge DATA. You can also just make a partition behind HP. But if you add a partition in front of HP, or eliminate the system partition, then you'll need to edit the boot. |
#28
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Converting From 1 TB to 2 TB via Macrium Reflect Re-Image: Partitions?
Mayayana wrote:
It seems silly to me to go to this trouble and still leave those 2 junk partitions in place That all depends on your sense of adventure. I have disks here, crying out to be fixed. But since there is no need of freeing up resources, I leave the materials there. A couple 500MB partitions aren't going to hurt anything. On my laptop, I needed to free up some partitions, as part of transitioning from OEM Windows 7, to a Microsoft disc install of Windows 7. So I put the extra effort into finding out how the stuff was wired, and whether it was safe to dismantle what I was seeing. "How to Remove the Windows "System Reserved" Partition" https://www.terabyteunlimited.com/kb/article.php?id=409 Some of the newer GPT laptop machines, say a machine with a 1TB disk and six partitions, you have to wonder what space aliens dreamed those up. As 1TB is too small to really need GPT, and it usually isn't possible to determine exactly what each of the partitions is for. Sure, you might recognize System Reserved and HP Recovery for what they are, but then you find a couple more small ones that make you wonder "what else is there?". How can you delete those, if they defy identification ? You can use a test plan, like boot and see if Windows boots OK, but there's a few other conditions you should be checking for, before congratulating yourself. It's much better to find a consensus somewhere as to what they're for, instead of attempting to do your own test plan. You might miss something. For the simpler cases, where the partition label gives the game away, sure, try your hand at cleanup. I only learn how this stuff works, by breaking stuff. The lesson leaves more of an impression that way. Paul |
#29
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Converting From 1 TB to 2 TB via Macrium Reflect Re-Image: Partitions?
"Paul" wrote
| Mayayana wrote: | | | It seems silly to me to go to this trouble and still | leave those 2 junk partitions in place | | That all depends on your sense of adventure. | And sense of orderliness. I especially like to get rid of the system partition because I don't want a pointless, dangling dependency for disk images. And the restore partition is pointless once a disk image backup is made. I can see why many people don't want to bother. When I decide to deal with a new (to me) computer I want to be thorough and do the job thoroughly so that I don't need to mess with it again. Which means leaving a new install on C drive, with data partitions, and disk images in case the OS and/or disk goes south. I don't like to leave tools on the kitchen table or clothes on the floor. I don't like an 8" deep sea of coffee cups on the back seat floor of my truck. But that's just me. | Some of the newer GPT laptop machines, say a machine | with a 1TB disk and six partitions I think I've seen 3 extra partitions. I think a Dell laptop had some kind of silly utilities partition. But I don't see any big risk in dumping that. In fact, that particular laptop had a messed up restore partition. There was something like a.exe that was supposed to kick off b.exe but didn't work. It took me all day to figure out that the restore would work if I booted a CD and then ran b.exe. It was as though someone had deliberately broken the restore function. To me that's a good example of why to just clean the whole thing up and be sure that it's working and backed up. As long as C is made whole and bootable, then imaged, I don't see any reason to leave the rest. The rest is meant for people who are not handy and, at best, may be able to handle triggering a factory restore if they need to... but weren't handy enough to make some restore DVDs when they got the computer. |
#30
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Converting From 1 TB to 2 TB via Macrium Reflect Re-Image: Partitions?
On Wed, 20 Jun 2018 09:51:59 -0400, "Mayayana"
wrote: I especially like to get rid of the system partition because I don't want a pointless, dangling dependency for disk images. And the restore partition is pointless once a disk image backup is made. Unless you want to sell the computer, then you can use the restore partition. --- Ignore the following - it's spammers for spambot fodder. |
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