windows live mail will not use "" for quoting

On 6/7/2011 9:46 PM, John Morrison wrote:
On Tue, 07 Jun 2011 07:16:01 -0500, Char
wrote:

On Tue, 07 Jun 2011 17:29:48 +1000, John Morrison
wrote:

Eudora& Agent are now both out of production but they still work here
OK, so I have no reason to change.

Agent is still being actively developed, unless you know something I
don't.www.forteinc.com

The last release was Agent 600-1186 on November 22nd. 2009, so I class
that as out of production.

As I see it is how can you improve on perfection? ;-)


--

Roy Smith
Windows XP Home
Thunderbird 3.1.10
Wednesday, June 08, 2011 7:14:19 PM

On 08 Jun 2011, Ken Blake wrote in
alt.windows7.general:

Windows 7 was released a month earlier, on October 22, 2009. Do
you classify that as out of production too?

That's not a good comparison, and I think you know it. There have been
many updates released for Windows 7, and Microsoft continues to mention
it publicly. Can the same be said for Forte and Agent? If they are
continuing to develop the product, they are being very secretive about
it.

"Jeff Layman" wrote in message
...
On 08/06/2011 02:59, Charles Tomaras wrote:
wrote in message
m...

Solution #1 Don't use newsgroups. (Microsoft's favorite)

The problem is that Usenet has deteriorated so much in the last few years
that no company would want to use it as serious form of support or
information. Too many "aliases," too much spam, too much profanity, too
many
idiots. When the major ISP's discontinued providing newsgroup service and
support, the writing was on the wall. As a sound mixer by profession I
can't
think of a single company or manufacturer who still uses Usenet to
disseminate information. I just come here out of habit now and the
occasional tidbit of decent information from a fellow user. Usenet is in
fact pretty much dead, we are just ghosts of the past.

Rubbish. True, it isn't what it used to be, and there are occasional
trolls,but if wonderful support like Microsoft's forums are meant to
replace it we can all give up now. If you think there are just titbits of
useful information to be had in Usenet then it really is time for you to
delete your newsreader.

There are a *lot* of helpful, knowledgeable, people out there (eg ex-MVPs,
geeks, and their like) who can help with many problems. How many times
have you see Usenet postings such as "I went to So-and-So's "Support"
pages but they were no help"? Or "I Googled but there were too many hits"?
I find it quite interesting that many of the Usenet hangers-on are - shall
we say - silver surfers in extremis. They've been there, done that, seen
that problem and know the solution.

I can tell you one thing; you are more likely to find something useful in
Usenet than wasting time with Facebook and Twitter.

--

Jeff


Oh...I'm still here but I see the handwriting on the wall. Dead might be a
premature statement but dying it is! In my main field of interest it's just
about dead. rec.audio.movies.production.sound used to be a lively bunch of
folks. The newsgroup got killed by two or three posters who argued about
everything. Now the majority of the regular posters have moved to a
moderated web forum and there is nothing on Usenet to replace it. The noise
ratio on most of the newsgroups I frequent is becoming too difficult to wade
through, even with a good news server and good filtering practices.

"John Smith" wrote in message
...

"Charles Tomaras" wrote in message
...

"charlie" wrote in message
m...

Solution #1 Don't use newsgroups. (Microsoft's favorite)

The problem is that Usenet has deteriorated so much in the last few years
that no company would want to use it as serious form of support or
information. Too many "aliases," too much spam, too much profanity, too
many idiots. When the major ISP's discontinued providing newsgroup
service and support, the writing was on the wall. As a sound mixer by
profession I can't think of a single company or manufacturer who still
uses Usenet to disseminate information. I just come here out of habit now
and the occasional tidbit of decent information from a fellow user.
Usenet is in fact pretty much dead, we are just ghosts of the past.

True, but that still doesn't justify Microsoft's approach to
its customers needs.

Do you really think that Microsoft or it's customer's best interests and
needs were being served by Usenet? All the anti-MS noise made it nearly
impossible to hear anything.

On Wed, 08 Jun 2011 20:38:39 -0400, Nil
wrote:

On 08 Jun 2011, Ken Blake wrote in
alt.windows7.general:

Windows 7 was released a month earlier, on October 22, 2009. Do
you classify that as out of production too?

That's not a good comparison, and I think you know it. There have been
many updates released for Windows 7, and Microsoft continues to mention
it publicly. Can the same be said for Forte and Agent? If they are
continuing to develop the product, they are being very secretive about
it.

I would swing the pendulum back in Ken's direction a bit and point out
that Windows 7 _needs_ frequent updates in order to deal with the ever
changing environment in which it is used, while Agent's environment,
Usenet, is fairly static, so updates are rarely needed, if at all.

Regarding Microsoft's frequent mention of it's flagship OS, Forte
likely knows that their product is nearly legendary within the Usenet
world and at the same time it's almost entirely invisible outside of
that world, so what is there to mention?

--

Char Jackson

On 08/06/2011 8:38 PM, Leon Manfredi wrote:
On Wed, 08 Jun 2011 14:21:38 -0400, Ann Watson
wrote:

On 08/06/2011 9:27 AM, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 08/06/2011 09:29, 123Jim wrote:

ah , when reading replied to mails Thunderbird uses vertical lines for
quoting, but they are correctly indented .. I like it!

Welcome to the club.

But don't get too complacent; it seems that the TB designers are itching
to change the way it looks and does things. Not too long now before the
new version(s) appear, and I don't know if that will be a :-) or :-(.

Let's just hope they don't use the ideas of anyone at MS who contributed
to WLM11...

It's vertical lines if you're posting in html. Quotes in text posts
should still have the "" like this post has.

I'm using TB 5.0b1 (they decided to skip the interval nos.) and it does
things pretty much the way the older versions do for
downloading/reading/sending e-mail or newsgroup messages. Of course
none of the add-ons I used in the past worked with it but was able to
find versions of the 2 most critical ones for me that do. The default
theme's mail toolbar is not the easiest to read.

The biggest change I've noticed is that the add-ons manager is very much
like Firefox 4's (except that it's pretty well empty at this point).

What I'm waiting for: the ability to open the address book(s) in a
tab(s) and the ability to compose in a tab rather than windows.

AW

I'm waiting for the adding of an address, into an already open send
message pane.... especially difficult when in reply mode...

I'm not sure I understand your problem. Are you trying to add an
address from one of your address books?

AW

On 6/08/2011, Ken Blake posted:
On Wed, 08 Jun 2011 12:02:58 -0700, Gene E. Bloch
wrote:

On 6/08/2011, Stephen Wolstenholme posted:
On Wed, 8 Jun 2011 09:46:05 -0700, "DGDevin"
wrote:



"Charles Tomaras" wrote in message
...


Usenet is in fact pretty much dead, we are just ghosts of the past.

Damn shame too, as I find Usenet much easier to use than most web-based
forums. If memory serves the NY Atty. Gen. had a lot to do with this, or
at least he have the big telecoms an excuse to drop Usenet.
Usenet is far from dead. I just did a refresh with Agent and there are
537 new groups with 34,137 messages since my previous refresh. I
subscribe to about 200 those groups. I can't even guess at how long it
would take look at 200 web forums.

Steve

I have to ask: how long does it take to look at 200 newsgroups? :-)


About 200 seconds. But of course, if you want to read the messages
within them, it takes much longer.

OK, thanks. That's all I needed to know :-)

You made me laugh.

--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)

On 6/08/2011, Char Jackson posted:
On Wed, 08 Jun 2011 12:02:58 -0700, Gene E. Bloch
wrote:

On 6/08/2011, Stephen Wolstenholme posted:
On Wed, 8 Jun 2011 09:46:05 -0700, "DGDevin"
wrote:



"Charles Tomaras" wrote in message
...


Usenet is in fact pretty much dead, we are just ghosts of the past.

Damn shame too, as I find Usenet much easier to use than most web-based
forums. If memory serves the NY Atty. Gen. had a lot to do with this, or
at least he have the big telecoms an excuse to drop Usenet.
Usenet is far from dead. I just did a refresh with Agent and there are
537 new groups with 34,137 messages since my previous refresh. I
subscribe to about 200 those groups. I can't even guess at how long it
would take look at 200 web forums.

Steve

I have to ask: how long does it take to look at 200 newsgroups? :-)

That was my initial thought, as well. I subscribe to 27 groups at the
moment, with a handful of those being all but dead, and I STILL spend
far too much time on Usenet. :-)

Yeah. Only 17 here, but still...

Oh well, it's fun.

--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)

On 6/08/2011, Charles Tomaras posted:
"John Smith" wrote in message
...

"Charles Tomaras" wrote in message
...

"charlie" wrote in message
m...

Solution #1 Don't use newsgroups. (Microsoft's favorite)

The problem is that Usenet has deteriorated so much in the last few years
that no company would want to use it as serious form of support or
information. Too many "aliases," too much spam, too much profanity, too
many idiots. When the major ISP's discontinued providing newsgroup service
and support, the writing was on the wall. As a sound mixer by profession I
can't think of a single company or manufacturer who still uses Usenet to
disseminate information. I just come here out of habit now and the
occasional tidbit of decent information from a fellow user. Usenet is in
fact pretty much dead, we are just ghosts of the past.

True, but that still doesn't justify Microsoft's approach to
its customers needs.

Do you really think that Microsoft or it's customer's best interests and
needs were being served by Usenet? All the anti-MS noise made it nearly
impossible to hear anything.

Not for me.

--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)

"Gene E. Bloch" wrote in message
...
On 6/08/2011, Charles Tomaras posted:
"John Smith" wrote in message
...

"Charles Tomaras" wrote in message
...

"charlie" wrote in message
m...

Solution #1 Don't use newsgroups. (Microsoft's favorite)

The problem is that Usenet has deteriorated so much in the last few
years that no company would want to use it as serious form of support
or information. Too many "aliases," too much spam, too much profanity,
too many idiots. When the major ISP's discontinued providing newsgroup
service and support, the writing was on the wall. As a sound mixer by
profession I can't think of a single company or manufacturer who still
uses Usenet to disseminate information. I just come here out of habit
now and the occasional tidbit of decent information from a fellow user.
Usenet is in fact pretty much dead, we are just ghosts of the past.

True, but that still doesn't justify Microsoft's approach to
its customers needs.

Do you really think that Microsoft or it's customer's best interests and
needs were being served by Usenet? All the anti-MS noise made it nearly
impossible to hear anything.

Not for me.

What?

On 6/08/2011, Charles Tomaras posted:
"Gene E. Bloch" wrote in message
...
On 6/08/2011, Charles Tomaras posted:
"John Smith" wrote in message
...

"Charles Tomaras" wrote in message
...

"charlie" wrote in message
m...

Solution #1 Don't use newsgroups. (Microsoft's favorite)

The problem is that Usenet has deteriorated so much in the last few
years that no company would want to use it as serious form of support or
information. Too many "aliases," too much spam, too much profanity, too
many idiots. When the major ISP's discontinued providing newsgroup
service and support, the writing was on the wall. As a sound mixer by
profession I can't think of a single company or manufacturer who still
uses Usenet to disseminate information. I just come here out of habit
now and the occasional tidbit of decent information from a fellow user.
Usenet is in fact pretty much dead, we are just ghosts of the past.

True, but that still doesn't justify Microsoft's approach to
its customers needs.

Do you really think that Microsoft or it's customer's best interests and
needs were being served by Usenet? All the anti-MS noise made it nearly
impossible to hear anything.

Not for me.

What?

Not for me.

"All the anti-MS noise made it nearly impossible to hear anything" is
not true for me.

I got lots of help and ideas from the old MS Usenet newsgroups.

--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)

On 08 Jun 2011, Char Jackson wrote in
alt.windows7.general:

I would swing the pendulum back in Ken's direction a bit and point
out that Windows 7 _needs_ frequent updates in order to deal with
the ever changing environment in which it is used, while Agent's
environment, Usenet, is fairly static, so updates are rarely
needed, if at all.

Regarding Microsoft's frequent mention of it's flagship OS, Forte
likely knows that their product is nearly legendary within the
Usenet world and at the same time it's almost entirely invisible
outside of that world, so what is there to mention?

I see in the forte-agent newsgroup quite a bit of discussion about
features and improvements people would like added to Agent. I would
think that if the program were still a priority for Forte, they would
have addressed the users about them sometime within the past 3 years,
if only to reassure them that the product wasn't dead.

And what do they do all day? They don't appear to have any other
products that would be distracting them from developing Agent.

Just seems like a funny way to run a software company. Most of them go
out of their way to appear to be moving forward, even if it's just for
show.

On 08/06/2011 20:24, XS11E wrote:
"John wrote:

Indeed, we know that, if free application works - Why oh WHY
shouldn't MS's one work too?

They do work and they work very well by MSFT's standards. The reason
they don't work well by Usenet standars is that, many years back, MSFT
made the decision to totally ignore GNKSA standards.


Seems to me you wasted a little bit of time keying "GNKSA"... ;-)

--

Jeff

On Wed, 08 Jun 2011 12:02:58 -0700, Gene E. Bloch
wrote:

On 6/08/2011, Stephen Wolstenholme posted:
On Wed, 8 Jun 2011 09:46:05 -0700, "DGDevin"
wrote:



"Charles Tomaras" wrote in message ...


Usenet is in fact pretty much dead, we are just ghosts of the past.

Damn shame too, as I find Usenet much easier to use than most web-based
forums. If memory serves the NY Atty. Gen. had a lot to do with this, or at
least he have the big telecoms an excuse to drop Usenet.

Usenet is far from dead. I just did a refresh with Agent and there are
537 new groups with 34,137 messages since my previous refresh. I
subscribe to about 200 those groups. I can't even guess at how long it
would take look at 200 web forums.

Steve

I have to ask: how long does it take to look at 200 newsgroups? :-)

About 15 minutes because any good newsreader will be able to step
through the whole lot looking for changes. That's what I'm doing now
with Forte Agent.

Steve

--
Neural network software applications, help and support.

Neural Planner Software www.NPSL1.com

On Wed, 08 Jun 2011 19:35:02 -0700, Gene E. Bloch
wrote:

On 6/08/2011, Ken Blake posted:

On Wed, 08 Jun 2011 12:02:58 -0700, Gene E. Bloch

I have to ask: how long does it take to look at 200 newsgroups? :-)


About 200 seconds. But of course, if you want to read the messages
within them, it takes much longer.

OK, thanks. That's all I needed to know :-)

You made me laugh.


Glad to hear it! g