No email on W-7

On Wed, 20 Jun 2012 09:48:30 -0500, Char Jackson
wrote:

On Wed, 20 Jun 2012 09:30:06 -0700, "RH Breener"
wrote:

I'm about to give up on trying to get WM to work on
W7. I have to admit I'm very disappointed in that it's there, and yet MS
doesn't allow it's use, and by all the aggravation with Permissions and
TrustedInstallers and Administration popup windows. I had heard complaints
about W7 from people I know and at work, but thought they were just
bitching, exaggerating. But now I see they were right.

I still think they're just bitching and exaggerating. Some people
adapt to change, while others don't do so well. With your attitude,
you'll probably have a hard time adapting.


You wrote three sentences, quoted above. I'll add the following three
sentences: Ditto. Ditto. Ditto.

On Wed, 20 Jun 2012 10:53:02 -0500, R. C. White wrote:

Hi, Ken.

I must be missing your point, since I don't understand the sentence "How
then do you reply to a NG if you don't have an email address in the
software to send the message to the NSP." Can you elucidate?

"NSP"? The first poster to use that abbreviation here was "Valorie", a year
or two ago. This "RH Breener" is beginning to remind me more and more of
that highly-successful troll. :(

RC

RH Breener has annoyed me, I admit, but IMO (s)he is (on occasion) much
more rational and responsive than Valorie.

--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)

On Wed, 20 Jun 2012 11:48:39 -0500, Char Jackson wrote:

I'm not a shrink, but I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express once. ;-)

I have stayed at two different Holiday Inn Expresses as recently as on a
trip in April 2012, yet you've mystified me completely with that remark.

What am I missing? BTW - you're not allowed to say a brain! :-)

--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)

On Wed, 20 Jun 2012 09:51:33 -0700, "RH Breener"
wrote:


"Ken Blake" wrote in message
...


What I almost always do is use a local builder to build what I want,
to my specifications.

Ahhh... there you go! You're very lucky. We had a guy here about 10 year
ago who built computers for people, but he gave up with all the problems
they had with the software and hours he had to spend on the phone with them
because of viruses or some other problem, most caused by the people
themselves. No one ever took his place.


Lucky? Lucky to have found someone to do it? I know about half a dozen
local individuals and small companies who do this, and I've barely
looked at all. Give me a day to look around and make inquiries and I
could find dozens more.



I choose all the components and he assembles
them. I've built my own several times, but I prefer having someone
else do it and paying not a whole lot of money for the service. I
prefer it because, although it's easy to build a computer (it's not
much more than plugging the components together; similar to plugging
together stereo components, but with a computer they are inside the
case), it isn't always easy to troubleshoot any problems you have
building it.

And you first have to spend hours and hours learning what parts are needed,
what parts work with other parts, who has the best quality this, that and
the other thing.


Hours and hours? I don't have to spend any time at all doing this.
First, I already know a lot about the choices and what I would want.
Second, if I were someone who didn't know, I could ask the builder for
recommendations.

When I said "I choose all the components" myself, I was describing
what I do, not recommending that everyone else has to do the same
thing. To repeat the point I was making, "You are assuming that there
are only those two choices: buy a pre-built OEM computer or build your
own. That is *not* correct; there is a third choice and it's the one I
prefer and use most of the time. What I almost always do is use a
local builder to build what I want, to my specifications." The last
three words in that quotation described my practice, not what the
third choice has to be.



You're obviously, as are most of those on this NG, very
much into computers, way beyond email and a little surfing. The average
person wouldn't know a mother board from a stick of RAM. And while you may
be very much interested in learning all that, and putting untold hours into
it, the truth is most people are not.



Nor should they be. And neither did I recommend that they should be.
Again, I was pointing out that *everyone*, despite how little he knows
about computers, has a third choice besides buying a pre-built
computer or building it himself.

And if you are talking about me, my computer knowledge is basically
about software. I have no pretences at being a hardware expert, and
that's one of the reasons I prefer to have someone else do the
building and troubleshooting instead of doing it myself.

On Wed, 20 Jun 2012 12:02:02 -0700, Ken Blake
wrote:

On Wed, 20 Jun 2012 09:48:30 -0500, Char Jackson
wrote:

On Wed, 20 Jun 2012 09:30:06 -0700, "RH Breener"
wrote:

I'm about to give up on trying to get WM to work on
W7. I have to admit I'm very disappointed in that it's there, and yet MS
doesn't allow it's use, and by all the aggravation with Permissions and
TrustedInstallers and Administration popup windows. I had heard complaints
about W7 from people I know and at work, but thought they were just
bitching, exaggerating. But now I see they were right.

I still think they're just bitching and exaggerating. Some people
adapt to change, while others don't do so well. With your attitude,
you'll probably have a hard time adapting.


You wrote three sentences, quoted above. I'll add the following three
sentences: Ditto. Ditto. Ditto.

Nice. :-)

--

Char Jackson

On Wed, 20 Jun 2012 10:53:02 -0500, "R. C. White"
wrote:

Hi, Ken.

I must be missing your point, since I don't understand the sentence "How
then do you reply to a NG if you don't have an email address in the
software to send the message to the NSP." Can you elucidate?

"NSP"? The first poster to use that abbreviation here was "Valorie", a year
or two ago. This "RH Breener" is beginning to remind me more and more of
that highly-successful troll. :(



Having seen no denial from him/her/it since you posted this, and seen
several other posts from him/her/it since then, it would appear that
you are exactly right!

On Wed, 20 Jun 2012 12:00:12 -0700, Ken Blake
wrote:

On Wed, 20 Jun 2012 11:50:09 -0500, Char Jackson
wrote:

On Wed, 20 Jun 2012 17:27:12 +0100, "Dave-UK" wrote:


"R. C. White" wrote in message news:_...
Hi, Ken.

I must be missing your point, since I don't understand the sentence "How
then do you reply to a NG if you don't have an email address in the
software to send the message to the NSP." Can you elucidate?

"NSP"? The first poster to use that abbreviation here was "Valorie", a year
or two ago. This "RH Breener" is beginning to remind me more and more of
that highly-successful troll. :(

RC

Good observation about the 'NSP' abbreviation, I agree with your theory about Valorie.

NSP is a very common abbreviation for News Service Provider. Think
'ISP', but for Usenet.


You say a very common abbreviation. I'll take your its being what you
say it say it is, but it can't be that common if I've never seen or
heard it before.

I hope it's not Valorie, but perhaps that's so.

I've always been active in the support newsgroups for my respective
NSPs over the past ~25 years, so 'NSP' comes up frequently for me.
People are always comparing one NSP to another, whether it's about
pricing, spam policies, plan features, etc.

--

Char Jackson

People continue to get it wrong due to years of OE and Windows Mail
mentality that MSFT should provide and meet everyone's intent. That ceased
to exist in 2006.

WLM is designed for and intended for use with Hotmail type accounts
(live.com, hotmail.com, msn.com and any other same domain country unique
derivative - hotmail.uk.co, live.se, msn.ca etc.) and with a Live ID signon.
In addition to integrating the use of the email client across the other Live
applications (Messenger, Photo Gallery/Movie Maker, Writer).

Does it meet everyone's intent ? Nope.
Was it intended to do so ? Never

For Hotmail and Messenger users who want an integrated application and full
folder replication (of the Hotmail type account folder/messages it is the
only application (except for the Hotmail Connector in Outlook) that provides
that same feature.

As far as anything else (pop3, imap, nntp) while it may have the ability to
support but those features the focus has always been on the half billion
Hotmail and Messenger users not the OE/WM population.

Another possibility, while never mentioned, but easily conceivable (looking
at the big picture) and understanding the above focus (Live ID
preferred/recommended usage)...a significant purpose of 'Live' may have been
to collect telemetric data on the integrated applications 'cloud usage'. Who
better than the half billion willing Messenger and Hotmail users ! (i.e.
XP/OE-Vista/WM no longer important and a known diminishing population).

With Win8 the focus is an extension of that same mentality (the only real
difference is the rebranding to the Microsoft name [Microsoft Hotmail,
Microsoft SkyDrive)
- Microsoft Account (i.e. its still a Live ID) and required to use all the
Win8 included apps and features.

Fyi...if using Messenger on Vista or Win7 the optional update (QFE3) for WLE
2011 became mandatory effective June 14th.
- i.e. to use Messenger which requires a Live ID sign-on WLE 2011 QFE3 is
now necessary.
- that mandatory update applies to anyone using Vista or Win7 and *any* pre
WLE 2011 QFE3 version (including WLE 2009).

--
....winston
msft mvp mail


"Ken Blake" wrote in message
...

On Mon, 18 Jun 2012 16:09:25 -0700, "RH Breener"
wrote:

Hi, I recently bought a new HP PC (64bit) with W-7. It came with


Note that it's your HP PC that came with Windows Live Mail, not
Windows 7. Windows Live Mail is a free program that HP (and many other
OEMs) bundle with their Windows 7 computers.


a really
bad email software called WindowsLiveMail that will not work for me.



I'm entirely with you. I think it's about the worst choice there is.


How can I get a copy of
WindowsMail or even OutlookExpress on W-7? I don't or want an email
program
that has all the bells and whistles I don't need or care about.

Is there some way I can get WindowsMail to work on W-7?



Yes. Read he
http://www.mydigitallife.info/downlo...-in-windows-7/

But you can *not* run Outlook Express in Windows 7.

Here's my standard post on this subject:

Windows 7 comes with *no* e-mail or newsgroup program. Although many
people object to this, I think it's a step in the right direction,
since it leaves everyone more free to choose whatever program(s) he
likes best. There are many choices available, both from Microsoft and
from third-parties. Some are free and some are for sale. Microsoft has
Windows Live Mail (which is essentially also a newer version of
Outlook Express/Windows Mail, with still another new name) available
for download for free and Outlook (a different program from outlook
express) available for sale, either alone or as part of Microsoft
Office.

If your computer came with Windows 7 preinstalled, it may have also
come with Windows Live Mail. If so, that's not because Windows 7 came
with it, it's because your computer's manufacturer bundled it with
what he sold you.
Some people will tell you to use Windows Live Mail; others will tell
you to use Thunderbird; still others may have other recommendations.

My advice is to ignore all such recommendations. I personally use
Microsoft Outlook for e-mail and Forté Agent for newsgroups, but you
should try several and choose what *you* like best, rather than make
your decision based on what I, or anyone else, likes best (or even
what Microsoft suggests).

On Wed, 20 Jun 2012 11:40:54 -0700, "Gene E. Bloch"
wrote:

On Wed, 20 Jun 2012 05:40:40 -0500, Roy Smith wrote:

I found it. Thank you. Of the two though, I think I'll end up
using
Thunderbird if I can't get WM to work. I don't understand why MS
doesn't
have it as a download since a lot of people don't seem to like WLM
and are
looking for ways to get WM to work on their W7 computers.

It's a thing called progress. How many new cars sold today come with
a 8-track tape player?

What? Are you trying to say I can't get a car with an 8-track player?

If this is progress, I don't want any part of it!

In truth, I never owned an 8-track player. In fact I don't remember ever
even seeing one in action. No, I'm not too young - I just traveled in
underprivileged circles, I guess...

When I was about 13, I salvaged a very nice (for its time) Craig
8-track player and speakers from a wrecked car in the local junk yard.
I also salvaged a working car battery. Tapes were also easy to find in
the junk yard, although the selection was somewhat limited.

I hooked everything up in my bedroom* and it worked wonderfully to
provide music, but I had to remember to flip on the battery charger**
every couple of days or the Craig would find itself to muster the
energy to change tracks.

*Charging a car battery in a bedroom is not recommended due to the
explosive gas produced, but I didn't know that then.

**The battery charger also came from the junk yard and was not working
when I brought it home, but its repair was fairly simple.

Yes, it's true that my brothers and I spent an awful lot of our time
as kids in the city dump, but that place was full of treasure just
waiting to be rescued. It was a sad day when the county brought in a
bulldozer and covered it up.

--

Char Jackson

Fyi...for you archives g

Effective June 14, WLE QFE3 transitioned from optional to mandatory for
Vista/Win7 users using any pre-WLE QFE3 version (including WLE 2009).

Does it mean all programs will stop functioning if not updated, not
necessarily.
- Just like in the past (e.g. WLE 2009 QFE3 was mandatory too ) the ability
to use Messenger (Live server logon required) is the primary impact.

But as we all know with Live...support for anything is the 'foreseeable
future' and does not mean 'in perpetuity'. Thus the future could very well
also bring restrictions on using any pre-QFE3 application (where Live server
logon is necessary)
- e.g. Photo e-mail, SkyDrive publishing, etc.


--
....winston
msft mvp mail


"R. C. White" wrote in message
ecom...

Hi, RH.

As you probably have learned by now, Win7 comes from Microsoft with NO
mail/news client at all. HP must have added WLM to your machine. Microsoft
got tired of complaints about "bloat" in Windows Vista and prior, so they
removed several add-on features, including mail/news, from Win7. They say
that we are now free to select any mail/news client we want (Thunderbird,
Agent, or any of several others) and install it ourselves.

OE will not run on Win7. WM will not run on Win7, either, officially. But
some users have made it work with a patch that should not be too hard to
find. (I haven't looked for it because I prefer WLM to WM. I'll probably
get flamed for that.)

RC
--
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX

Microsoft Windows MVP (2002-2010)
Windows Live Mail 2011 (Build 15.4.3555.0308) in Win7 Ultimate x64 SP1


"RH Breener" wrote in message ...

Hi, I recently bought a new HP PC (64bit) with W-7. It came with a really
bad email software called WindowsLiveMail that will not work for me. There
is no way to set a rule to keep large files from downloading as in
WindowsMail. I don't have unlimited Internet downloads. I can't find Send
& Recieve either. I can't find any way to show the size of downloaded mail.
I tried Thunderbird and don't care for it at all. How can I get a copy of
WindowsMail or even OutlookExpress on W-7? I don't or want an email program
that has all the bells and whistles I don't need or care about.

Is there some way I can get WindowsMail to work on W-7?

On Wed, 20 Jun 2012 12:08:12 -0700, "Gene E. Bloch"
wrote:

On Wed, 20 Jun 2012 11:48:39 -0500, Char Jackson wrote:

I'm not a shrink, but I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express once. ;-)

I have stayed at two different Holiday Inn Expresses as recently as on a
trip in April 2012, yet you've mystified me completely with that remark.

What am I missing? BTW - you're not allowed to say a brain! :-)

Do you own a TV? If so, do you skip the commercials? :-)

From the Marketing section at the Wikipedia link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holiday_Inn_Express

"Starting in 1997, Holiday Inn Express started an ad campaign called
"Stay Smart" ads that featured ordinary people achieving superior
feats, such as averting a nuclear disaster or performing like rock
stars. When asked questions whether or not they are professionals,
they reply "No, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express," attributing
their skills to their stay there. These ads have received positive
reviews, and have been so successful they have crossed over into
popular culture, being features in late night comedian jokes and
political cartoons."

So, now you know. :-)

--

Char Jackson

On 6/20/12 12:36 PM, Ken Blake wrote:
1. It makes the documentation available to everyone, including those
people who pirate the software.

In which case, they are more concerned with the pirates than with
legitimate consumers/users. :-(

--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.6.8
Firefox 13.0.1
Thunderbird 13.0.1
LibreOffice 3.5.2.2

RH Breener wrote:

And you first have to spend hours and hours learning what parts are needed,
what parts work with other parts, who has the best quality this, that and
the other thing. You're obviously, as are most of those on this NG, very
much into computers, way beyond email and a little surfing. The average
person wouldn't know a mother board from a stick of RAM. And while you may
be very much interested in learning all that, and putting untold hours into
it, the truth is most people are not.

Hey, that's the FUN of building your own computer. The same goes when
you buy a car. Do you just happen to think suddenly one day "I want a
new car" and then stop at the nearest car dealer to pick one up? Or did
you first do research on the cars to see which ones met your criteria,
which ones did what you wanted, checked their reliability, warranties,
and all other factors of buying and owning a new car? If you're the
type that investigates their car purchase before laying down your hard
earned cash from working those 2 jobs, did you not find it fun to do
that research to learn about the cars? Do you do absolutely no research
before buying a new television? If you are disabled with compulsive and
immediate purchase disorder then you'll end up with a lot of junk.

Even when you bought your pre-built, pre-configured computer, you didn't
do any research on it before purchasing it? Considering all the
configurations that are possible, and from the times that I've wandered
around the various major brand sites reviewing their products and vast
number of configuration possibilities, I found it easier to just make up
my own list and go get the parts to put together myself.

Personally I don't see slapping together the *hardware* for a personal
computer much more difficult than buying a BBQ grill and then having to
read the incomplete instructions on how to assemble the thing with a
thousand screws, bolts, and whatnot. Yet I do buy grills that I have to
put together. Most of them come that way. You're lucky if you can get
the store to put it together (and do it correctly) for free or at a
charge. They just sell you the box and you put it together. Well, I
want that BBQ grill so I'm willing to spend the time to put it together.
Rocket science isn't required to build the grill, nor for a personal
computer, either. There really aren't many parts inside a computer:
case, motherboard, PSU, memory sticks, video card (if onboard isn't
enough), hard disk, optical drive, and then connect the cables. Beyond
that, you are already "assembling" the other components by attaching the
keyboard, mouse, monitor, printer, etc.

There really isn't much to learn about slapping together a personal
computer. They come as components you screw down, slide into slots, and
connect with cables that don't even need instructions on where to plug
them in. I can fab a PC in an hour although it's more like 2 since I
like to be very neat and I probably like to dig into it more than
needed. The hardware is not the hard part of building PC. Its the OS,
drivers, apps, and all the conflicts and problems with the *software*.
That's probably what scares you away from building a PC. Hardware by
itself isn't that scary. As you yourself mentioned, it wasn't the
problems with the hardware that turned your "guy" off from repairing
computers. It was all the software problems and ignorant users getting
the *software* infected.

As for not having the space [to build your own], you don't have as much
space as for the seat on a chair? How about where you eat? How about
the floor? Plywood plank over your bed? A folding table? I still have
enough space where I eat and also on my desk to build a computer but I
also keep around a folding table for when I happen to need more space,
like when it's time to spread out all the papers to reconcile my bank
accounts or do my taxes. As for tools, one multi-bit screwdriver will
probably suffice.

However, this subthread is off-topic. Your problems with e-mail have
nothing to do with e-mail. I only made the point that you got WLM not
because Microsoft gave it to you, not because they bundled it with
Windows 7, but that it was HP that decided to give you WLM - plus lots
of other bloatware they include in their pre-configured platforms.

On Wed, 20 Jun 2012 14:20:20 -0500, Char Jackson
wrote:

On Wed, 20 Jun 2012 12:00:12 -0700, Ken Blake
wrote:

On Wed, 20 Jun 2012 11:50:09 -0500, Char Jackson
wrote:

On Wed, 20 Jun 2012 17:27:12 +0100, "Dave-UK" wrote:


"R. C. White" wrote in message news:_...
Hi, Ken.

I must be missing your point, since I don't understand the sentence "How
then do you reply to a NG if you don't have an email address in the
software to send the message to the NSP." Can you elucidate?

"NSP"? The first poster to use that abbreviation here was "Valorie", a year
or two ago. This "RH Breener" is beginning to remind me more and more of
that highly-successful troll. :(

RC

Good observation about the 'NSP' abbreviation, I agree with your theory about Valorie.

NSP is a very common abbreviation for News Service Provider. Think
'ISP', but for Usenet.


You say a very common abbreviation. I'll take your its being what you
say it say it is, but it can't be that common if I've never seen or
heard it before.

I hope it's not Valorie, but perhaps that's so.

I've always been active in the support newsgroups for my respective
NSPs over the past ~25 years, so 'NSP' comes up frequently for me.
People are always comparing one NSP to another, whether it's about
pricing, spam policies, plan features, etc.


You've been in newsgroups longer than I have. I started about 17-18
years ago, shortly after I get my first internet connection (on
dial-up back then). And maybe it's a matter of *which* newsgroups, but
if I've seen "NSP" before, I don't remember doing so.

Yes, I've also seen many such comparisons, but not using that
abbreviation.

On Wed, 20 Jun 2012 14:36:31 -0500, Char Jackson
wrote:

On Wed, 20 Jun 2012 12:08:12 -0700, "Gene E. Bloch"
wrote:

On Wed, 20 Jun 2012 11:48:39 -0500, Char Jackson wrote:

I'm not a shrink, but I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express once. ;-)

I have stayed at two different Holiday Inn Expresses as recently as on a
trip in April 2012, yet you've mystified me completely with that remark.

What am I missing? BTW - you're not allowed to say a brain! :-)

Do you own a TV? If so, do you skip the commercials? :-)

From the Marketing section at the Wikipedia link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holiday_Inn_Express


I missed the same thing Gene did. I own a TV, but I see almost no
commercials. I watch almost nothing on TV except for films (Netflix)
and an occasional Tennis match.