No email on W-7

On Wed, 20 Jun 2012 05:48:44 -0500, Roy Smith
wrote:

On Tue, 19 Jun 2012 22:08:36 -0600, Ken Springer
wrote:
On 6/19/12 9:49 PM, Gene Wirchenko wrote:
How many users of programs do not know
of some features that would be very useful for them if only they
could
easily find out?


Which is why I'm continually b***ching about the lack of
documentation
these days for all things computer.


Makes you miss the days of when buying a computer also meant that you
were buying a library of books on how to use and program it as well.


Like all of you, I'm also unhappy about the lack of documentation
these days. But not getting that "library of books" has helped keep
the cost of software down.

On Wed, 20 Jun 2012 09:17:49 -0700, "RH Breener"
wrote:


"Sam Hill" wrote in message
...
Ken Blake wrote:

RH Breener wrote:
Bruce Hagen wrote:
FYI: Outlook does not do news.

OK, then I would not be interested at all.

Your choice, of course, and I'm not trying to talk you into anything,
but I never understand why anyone insists on using the same program for
e-mail and newsgroups. I don't at all mind having two programs, one for
each use, and in some ways I ever prefer it--for example, I can have
both open at once.

Using separate applications removes you from the possibility of sending a
private email to a newsgroup.

Then how do you send the message to your NSP to be forwarded to Usenet? Is
there a way to do that without an email address?

Usenet and email are two completely separate systems. There is such a
thing as an email-to-Usenet gateway, but 99.99% of us don't do it that
way. Do you?

As for how to access Usenet without involving email: use a Usenet
client, which you're already doing.

--

Char Jackson

On Wed, 20 Jun 2012 09:19:57 -0700, "RH Breener"
wrote:


"Gene E. Bloch" wrote in message
...

BTW, I don't think I set up e-mail accounts in my newsreaders. Or maybe
I did :-)

You would at least have to have an outgoing email account - no? It has to
get to the NSP somehow.

Hint: email is rarely involved. Here's some light reading.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usenet
http://computer.howstuffworks.com/internet/social-networking/information/newsgroup.htm
http://people.dsv.su.se/~jpalme/e-mail-book/usenet-news.html
http://www.harley.com/usenet/usenet-tutorial/how-does-usenet-work.html
https://www.google.com/search?q=how%20usenet%20works

--

Char Jackson

On Wed, 20 Jun 2012 09:30:06 -0700, "RH Breener"
wrote:

I'm about to give up on trying to get WM to work on
W7. I have to admit I'm very disappointed in that it's there, and yet MS
doesn't allow it's use, and by all the aggravation with Permissions and
TrustedInstallers and Administration popup windows. I had heard complaints
about W7 from people I know and at work, but thought they were just
bitching, exaggerating. But now I see they were right.

I still think they're just bitching and exaggerating. Some people
adapt to change, while others don't do so well. With your attitude,
you'll probably have a hard time adapting.

--

Char Jackson

On 6/20/12 9:13 AM, RH Breener wrote:
What about Usenet though? Does Eudora and SeaMonkey include that, or would
you need a seperate program for Usenet? I believe both are browsers only.

I honestly don't know/remember, but since both use the TB code, I
suspect both will probably have Usenet capability. Be aware, TB does
have problems with the Usenet and doing things properly, just as OE
does/did.

I've seen lots of discussion threads over time about whether having both
email and Usenet capability in one program is a good idea or not. I
suspect the only real advantage is convenience. But each individual
desires to have things work in a way that's comfortable for them, which
is good IMO. I just get frustrated with the contemporary situation
where you generally just hear about a few ubiquitous programs rather
than having easier access to viewing a larger "menu" of programs.

One thing I've learned about computer software over the years is no one
program does everything well, and often fails to do anything truly well.
If you really want it to work right, use a program designed to do that
job and little else.

Opera's email client used to do the Usenet, I used it years ago, so I
suspect it still does the Usenet.

--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.6.8
Firefox 13.0.1
Thunderbird 13.0.1
LibreOffice 3.5.2.2

On Wed, 20 Jun 2012 09:16:09 -0700, "RH Breener"
wrote:


"Ken Blake" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 19 Jun 2012 16:11:21 -0700, "RH Breener"
wrote:


"Bruce Hagen" wrote in message
...

FYI: Outlook does not do news.

OK, then I would not be interested at all.


Your choice, of course, and I'm not trying to talk you into anything,
but I never understand why anyone insists on using the same program
for e-mail and newsgroups. I don't at all mind having two programs,
one for each use, and in some ways I ever prefer it--for example, I
can have both open at once.

How then do you reply to a NG if you don't have an email address in the
software to send the message to the NSP? If you have an email address in
the software, then you'll get email downloaded to it.



I must be missing your point, since I don't understand the sentence
"How then do you reply to a NG if you don't have an email address in
the software to send the message to the NSP." Can you elucidate?


I use Forte Agent 6.0 only as a newsreader (I use Outlook 2010 for
e-mail). Although Agent *does* have e-mail capability, I don't use it,
and don't have it set up for e-mail at all. Agent doesn't know what my
e-mail address is. And replying to a NG in Agent is no problem, as you
can see since you are reading my reply.

On 6/20/12 8:41 AM, Ken Blake wrote:
On Wed, 20 Jun 2012 05:48:44 -0500, Roy Smith
wrote:

On Tue, 19 Jun 2012 22:08:36 -0600, Ken Springer
wrote:
On 6/19/12 9:49 PM, Gene Wirchenko wrote:
How many users of programs do not know
of some features that would be very useful for them if only they
could
easily find out?


Which is why I'm continually b***ching about the lack of
documentation
these days for all things computer.


Makes you miss the days of when buying a computer also meant that you
were buying a library of books on how to use and program it as well.


Like all of you, I'm also unhappy about the lack of documentation
these days. But not getting that "library of books" has helped keep
the cost of software down.

But what stops them from putting the documentation on their website as a
PDF file?


--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.6.8
Firefox 13.0.1
Thunderbird 13.0.1
LibreOffice 3.5.2.2

"Roy Smith" wrote in message
.com...
On Tue, 19 Jun 2012 14:59:24 -0700, "RH Breener"
wrote:
"VanguardLH" wrote in message
...
RH Breener wrote:

I can't locate the place to make the rules, ...

See my earlier reply. Yes, you can define a rule that prevents
downloading messages that exceed a specified size. The clauses
were
available in the prior version so I suspect they are still
available in
the newer version.

And, yes, Microsoft likes to make difficult finding how to define
rules
in WLM. I eventually decided to stop hunting around the given UI
and
use the options to show the menu bar. Once I got the menu bar
displayed, finding where to define the rules was easy. That was
under
the older version of WLM that will install on Windows XP. The
latest
version won't install on Windows XP.


The new version incorporates Microsoft's penchant for GUI changes
by
using the ribbon bar. From articles I've read for that newer
version,
you go under the Folders tab in the ribbon bar whereupon then you
get to
see the Message Rules button.

Create a New Mail Rule in Windows Live Mail in Windows 7

http://ww2.cox.com/residential/centr...ternet/article.
cox?articleId=%7Bb7514210-62b6-11df-ccef-000000000000%7D
(found by Google search on: "windows live mail" create rule)


I found it. Thank you. Of the two though, I think I'll end up
using
Thunderbird if I can't get WM to work. I don't understand why MS
doesn't
have it as a download since a lot of people don't seem to like WLM
and are
looking for ways to get WM to work on their W7 computers.

It's a thing called progress. How many new cars sold today come with a
8-track tape player?

There's no comparison between the ultra bloated WLM and WM. CDs and DVDs
are an improvement over 8-track tapes. WLM is no improvement over WM. If
most people were happy with WLM, there wouldn't be so many websites devoted
to getting WL to work on W7.


--
Sent from Groundhog on my Sony Tablet S.

On Wed, 20 Jun 2012 08:50:09 -0600, Ken Springer
wrote:

Opera's email client used to do the Usenet, I used it years ago, so I
suspect it still does the Usenet.

I like how you call it 'the Usenet'. You remind me of someone I know
in Real Life.

--

Char Jackson

"Ken Springer" wrote in message
...
On 6/19/12 3:21 PM, RH Breener wrote:
I can't locate the place to make the rules, and for some reason the
software
downloads old messages from the gmail server that I've seen months ago.

Hi, RH,

Two things:


First.........

I've just read through this entire thread of messages as it exists at this
moment, saw no one with any real information about your Gmail issue.

Some time back, I was helping a friend in setting up his Thunderbird
client, and we had a lot of problems getting the results we expected. To
put it mildly, we were getting pi$$ed! LOL

Turns out, Google/Gmail handles mail differently than many if not most
places. It wasn't until we really got into how you needed to configure
Gmail at Gmail's end that we finally started to see the results we wanted.

Moral of this short story? It's best if you go to Gmail and thoroughly
understand how Gmail handles POP3 and IMAP requests before placing the
blame on an email client when you don't get the results you expected.

Several of the gmail accounts work in WLM on W-7. Only one will not for some
reason. I'me very familiar with gmail and it's different POP and SMTP
entries.




Second.........

I'm not here to denigrate, malign, or in some way badmouth the other
posters, but I was not shocked to find almost no one offered any other
solutions to you for an email client. Most seem fixated on the MS and
Mozilla products. I saw Pegasus Mail mentioned, but I believe development
has stopped. Also Agent (sophisticated, I tried it and decided against
it), which is still being developed. There was one other, I think, but
I'm not going looking! LOL

Out of curiosity I've tried more than a few email programs over the years
but never found one I liked better than the old OE or WindowsMail. I really
resent MS putting WM on W7 and then not allowing those who buy that OS to
use it. Something is wrong with that. Of all I tried since 1995, the now
dead OE and WM on Vista are the easiest to use, the fastest, and when info
is entered correctly, they work every time.


As you see from my sig, I'm a TB user, but definitely not 100% happy with
it. But it is better *for me* than Apple Mail. LOL If I ever get the
ambition, I'll go look for something else.

As for Windows alternatives other than MS products that everyone
acknowledges don't work correctly in many areas, and TB which you don't
care for, Mozilla also has the SeaMonkey browser which includes an email
client as does the Opera browser, should you wish to look at different
browsers as a package. The open source version of Eudora is based on TB
code. I switched from Eudora a couple years ago to TB, but if/when I go
looking for a TB replacement, I'll check it out again. I'm sure there's a
lot of changes, and I honestly do not remember why I changed. I know I
*really* liked their last commercial version for Windows.

What about Usenet though? Does Eudora and SeaMonkey include that, or would
you need a seperate program for Usenet? I believe both are browsers only.



I'd recommend you check out this site:
http://www.windows7download.com/free...lient/0-r.html

It lists 316 email clients for Win7. Surely more than enough to boggle
the mind. 74 are freeware, and the list includes shareware, trial, and
commercial programs. I'd think you'd find something there that would
appeal to you and what you want in a client. Do not depend on what you
see on the site as being all encompassing. There's a client called
Mahogany listed for Win7, but it's cross platform and the screenshot is
from Mac's OS X! grin I'll have to remember to check it out.

And the TB listed at the beginning is so far out of date.

If you see something that looks appealing or sparks your curiosity, use
your favorite search engine to find the home page.

Thanks. I'll check that out. I don't have much free time to spend on all
this. If MS would let those who favor WM activate it in W7 it would save a
lot of people a lot of time looking for a decent email/news program. Why
harass and frustrate their own customers? I'm getting more p*ssesd off here
by the minute. I've wasted hours on this crap now and made little headway
since now I need another Permission, this time from the Trusted Installer.
This is really turning me off to MS OSs. I can only imagine how much worse,
how much more confusing and aggravating and non intuitive W8 will be. The PC
owner will need permission for every move he or she makes and be driven
bat**** by all the permission popups.


HTH

--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.6.8
Firefox 12.0
Thunderbird 12.0.1
LibreOffice 3.5.2.2

On Wed, 20 Jun 2012 09:51:33 -0700, "RH Breener"
wrote:

"Ken Blake" wrote in message
.. .

What I almost always do is use a local builder to build what I want,
to my specifications.

Ahhh... there you go! You're very lucky. We had a guy here about 10 year
ago who built computers for people, but he gave up with all the problems
they had with the software and hours he had to spend on the phone with them
because of viruses or some other problem, most caused by the people
themselves. No one ever took his place.

When I stop doing it, that will almost certainly be the reason. It's
easy to build systems, even easier if the customer is clear about what
they want, but dealing with them afterwards can be a pain. I have
people calling me 3-4 years after I delivered a system, wanting me to
"swing by" their house to take a look at their current problem. Heaven
forbid I ask them to bring the system to me, since some of these
people live 40-60 miles away, and by the way, "what's this talk about
labor rates? Don't you remember you built this system for me?". Yes,
ma'am, but that was 4 years ago. Am I supposed to support it forever
at no additional charge? If my system price included unlimited
lifetime tech support, on-site even, you wouldn't have liked my
pricing one bit. It's all humorous and we eventually work through it,
but yeah, the people aspect is the most interesting. Hardware and
software is easy, in comparison. Or just easy, period.

I choose all the components and he assembles
them. I've built my own several times, but I prefer having someone
else do it and paying not a whole lot of money for the service. I
prefer it because, although it's easy to build a computer (it's not
much more than plugging the components together; similar to plugging
together stereo components, but with a computer they are inside the
case), it isn't always easy to troubleshoot any problems you have
building it.

And you first have to spend hours and hours learning what parts are needed,
what parts work with other parts, who has the best quality this, that and
the other thing. You're obviously, as are most of those on this NG, very
much into computers, way beyond email and a little surfing. The average
person wouldn't know a mother board from a stick of RAM. And while you may
be very much interested in learning all that, and putting untold hours into
it, the truth is most people are not.

These days, most people don't know what a newsgroup is. If you can't
get there with a web browser, it ain't worth going.

--

Char Jackson

On 20/06/2012 15:52, Ken Springer wrote:
On 6/20/12 8:41 AM, Ken Blake wrote:
On Wed, 20 Jun 2012 05:48:44 -0500, Roy Smith
wrote:

On Tue, 19 Jun 2012 22:08:36 -0600, Ken Springer
wrote:
On 6/19/12 9:49 PM, Gene Wirchenko wrote:
How many users of programs do not know
of some features that would be very useful for them if only they
could
easily find out?


Which is why I'm continually b***ching about the lack of
documentation
these days for all things computer.


Makes you miss the days of when buying a computer also meant that you
were buying a library of books on how to use and program it as well.


Like all of you, I'm also unhappy about the lack of documentation
these days. But not getting that "library of books" has helped keep
the cost of software down.

But what stops them from putting the documentation on their website as a
PDF file?


Nothing, but a lot of software now has been so much modified by so many
people, it's possible that not even the putative authors know all the
ins and outs. It may well be an urban myth, but it's been said that
Microsoft have bits of code in the core Windows OS that they daren't
modify, because the guy that wrote them left, and there's no
documentation, so they don't know what would happen if they *did* delete
the code. Or they tried it, and it fubar'd the system.

Also, a lot of software now doesn't *have* the options that it used to,
which mean you don't need such a big manual, and even if you *can* find
the manual for the previous version, the command line switches have been
disabled.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

On 20/06/2012 16:13, RH Breener wrote:
What about Usenet though? Does Eudora and SeaMonkey include that, or
would you need a seperate program for Usenet? I believe both are
browsers only.


Seamonkey will import and use correctly all e-mail and usenet settings
from Thunderbird, in a totally seamless way, and also uses the same
settings file format at Firefox, although I've not yet found an easy way
to import book marks from Firefox, which is why it got installed, tried
and uninstalled.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

On Wed, 20 Jun 2012 10:06:47 -0700, "RH Breener"
wrote:

I'm giving up on WLM altogether. One email account will not work at all on
it. Another account keeps downloading the same old email from last year
that must still be on the gmail server and I can only delete three at a
time, no more. In minutes they all download again. I just don't have the
time and patience to keep deleting the same messages every time I open the
program. I haven't even tried my Usenet accounts in WLM. To use them would
allow the same old messages going back 6 months to download again and again.
It's crazy.

You need a short 101 course at a Community College or a very patient
friend to sit with you. You seem to be missing most of the basics, yet
you want to circumvent as much as possible the security that's in
place to protect users like you. That's not a good recipe for success.

--

Char Jackson

On 20/06/2012 15:50, Ken Blake wrote:
On Wed, 20 Jun 2012 09:16:09 -0700, "RH Breener"
wrote:


"Ken wrote in message
...
On Tue, 19 Jun 2012 16:11:21 -0700, "RH Breener"
wrote:


"Bruce wrote in message
...

FYI: Outlook does not do news.

OK, then I would not be interested at all.


Your choice, of course, and I'm not trying to talk you into anything,
but I never understand why anyone insists on using the same program
for e-mail and newsgroups. I don't at all mind having two programs,
one for each use, and in some ways I ever prefer it--for example, I
can have both open at once.

How then do you reply to a NG if you don't have an email address in the
software to send the message to the NSP? If you have an email address in
the software, then you'll get email downloaded to it.



I must be missing your point, since I don't understand the sentence
"How then do you reply to a NG if you don't have an email address in
the software to send the message to the NSP." Can you elucidate?


I use Forte Agent 6.0 only as a newsreader (I use Outlook 2010 for
e-mail). Although Agent *does* have e-mail capability, I don't use it,
and don't have it set up for e-mail at all. Agent doesn't know what my
e-mail address is. And replying to a NG in Agent is no problem, as you
can see since you are reading my reply.



Most, if not all news servers require you to have a valid e-mail address
to set up the account, and this address will appear in the "from"
portion of the headers. It often does not have to exist for anything
apart from setting up and administering the account, and cen be deleted
or changed at any time.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.