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#17
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Why most new PCs have USB 2.0 but not Firewire builtin?
On Fri, 28 Nov 2003 04:37:20 +0000, Editor www.nutritionsoftware.org
wrote: My latest Dell has 6 USB 2.0 ports. But no 1394! I'd prefer to have 4 USBs and 2 FWs instead. This distinction seems to apply to digicams and cameras: my 2 Sony camcorders both have Firewire to download to PCs. My cameras all have USB download. Could someone explain why this is so? I am sure there are good reasons behind all this. Thanks. Good reasons? Maybe, it depends on if your're an accountant or not. In engineering terms, there's no good reason why not. But in accounting terms it's a much different story. Simple economics of scale. USB 2 is "in the chipset" so therefore it cost nothing to "include" in a PC other then a connector and maybe some addional misc. parts. Firewire requires more chips than just the basic shipset. So it you're making millions of motherboards or PCs, then the extre 3 or 4 bucks for the chip add up to a,ot of money. I met a guy who used to design Intel motherboards for mass market PCs and asked him why they didn't put more than just a couple of DIMM sockets on them and he asid "they won;t let us because that would add an extra 25-cents" - it would add hundreds of thousands of dollarns to the cost of the production with no return. Fortunately if you build your own or if you're willing to pay for more than a basic PC and shop around you can get ready made PCs with Firewire. I saw some nice PC's on sale in a Radio Shack one day with a nice little door on the front panel with Firewire connectors. If you want to see more PC's with Firewire support - buy one with it included. Voting with your dollars sends a powerful message. When you shop, tell the salesman you'll only buy one with Firewire. Write to Dell, HP, IBM, etc and tell them you want it. Write to Intel en-masse and demand Firewire support in the chipset. There's no reason in the world that Intel can;t do this - they have *radios* in their chipsets, so Firewire should be painless for them! But then Intel developed USB2 to compete with Firewire, so it's a political issue with them more than anything else. Intel knows that video is a killer app, so demand Firewire. If enough people demand it, eventually they'll respond. You bought a Dell - you bought it online, yes? Didn't the customization screen give you an option of a Firewire card? If not, call Dell and complain -but don't complain to the first person that answers the phone, demand to speak to a sales manager. But if you're really smart, just open the case and plug in a $20 Firewire card and don't depend on someone else to build it for you. It's sdimple and painless and there's no drivers to load, it just works. --Keith |
#18
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Why most new PCs have USB 2.0 but not Firewire builtin?
Editor www.nutritionsoftware.org wrote:
My latest Dell has 6 USB 2.0 ports. But no 1394! I'd prefer to have 4 USBs and 2 FWs instead. This distinction seems to apply to digicams and cameras: my 2 Sony camcorders both have Firewire to download to PCs. My cameras all have USB download. Could someone explain why this is so? I am sure there are good reasons behind all this. Thanks. I think all you people missed the obvious.. You guys are looking for some complex answer when the answer is so simple.. Intel invented the USB. Firewire is a competing standard, and since intel based chips are the predominate chips used in the manufactures motherboards, they don't want to add firewire. It's only the customers requesting firewire that we see firewire in anything.. -richard |
#19
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Why most new PCs have USB 2.0 but not Firewire builtin?
"Richard Ragon" wrote in message . com... Editor www.nutritionsoftware.org wrote: I think all you people missed the obvious.. You guys are looking for some complex answer when the answer is so simple.. Intel invented the USB. Firewire is a competing standard, and since intel based chips are the predominate chips used in the manufactures motherboards, they don't want to add firewire. It's only the customers requesting firewire that we see firewire in anything.. A reiteration of at least 5 different posts in this thread. HMc |
#20
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Why most new PCs have USB 2.0 but not Firewire builtin?
Howard McCollister wrote:
"Richard Ragon" wrote in message . com... Editor www.nutritionsoftware.org wrote: I think all you people missed the obvious.. You guys are looking for some complex answer when the answer is so simple.. Intel invented the USB. Firewire is a competing standard, and since intel based chips are the predominate chips used in the manufactures motherboards, they don't want to add firewire. It's only the customers requesting firewire that we see firewire in anything.. A reiteration of at least 5 different posts in this thread. Of which were cross posted, and I can't see.. |
#21
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Why most new PCs have USB 2.0 but not Firewire builtin?
"Richard Ragon" wrote in message om... Howard McCollister wrote: "Richard Ragon" wrote in message . com... Editor www.nutritionsoftware.org wrote: I think all you people missed the obvious.. You guys are looking for some complex answer when the answer is so simple.. Intel invented the USB. Firewire is a competing standard, and since intel based chips are the predominate chips used in the manufactures motherboards, they don't want to add firewire. It's only the customers requesting firewire that we see firewire in anything.. A reiteration of at least 5 different posts in this thread. Of which were cross posted, and I can't see.. So it was YOU who missed what was "obvious" to all but you. |
#22
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Why most new PCs have USB 2.0 but not Firewire builtin?
Mark M wrote:
"Richard Ragon" wrote in message om... Howard McCollister wrote: "Richard Ragon" wrote in message gy.com... Editor www.nutritionsoftware.org wrote: I think all you people missed the obvious.. You guys are looking for some complex answer when the answer is so simple.. Intel invented the USB. Firewire is a competing standard, and since intel based chips are the predominate chips used in the manufactures motherboards, they don't want to add firewire. It's only the customers requesting firewire that we see firewire in anything.. A reiteration of at least 5 different posts in this thread. Of which were cross posted, and I can't see.. So it was YOU who missed what was "obvious" to all but you. So... if I don't subscribe to every one of the news forums that this was posted too.. I'm missing the obvious? -Richard |
#23
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Why most new PCs have USB 2.0 but not Firewire builtin?
Editor www.nutritionsoftware.org wrote:
My latest Dell has 6 USB 2.0 ports. But no 1394! I'd prefer to have 4 USBs and 2 FWs instead. Could someone explain why this is so? I am sure there are good reasons behind all this. No, there are just "reasons". Back when it had the chance to make FW the leading serial PnP port, Apple screwed it up by charging a royalty of $1 per port. $2 per machine was easily enough to prevent adoption. That made also it real easy for Intel to push USB instead. Apple now charges less, I hear, but it still isn't royalty-free, and now that USB 2.0 is out, FW has lost the commanding performance lead that it had. FW card tip: If you get a PCI FW card, make sure it has pins for an internal molex drive power connector. If it doesn't, it cannot provide to all bus ports the "full" power that devices are allowed to draw (they won't get enumerated if they try). PCI slots only provide 25W, and a full-power FW port may provide between 12 and 18W (per port). Even if you don't have a single device requiring more than 0.5A, you may have multiple devices that exceed what a PCI card can deliver without outside power. -- Regards, PO Box 248 Bob Niland Enterprise Kansas USA which, due to spam, is: 67441-0248 email4rjn AT yahoo DOT com http://www.access-one.com/rjn Unless otherwise specifically stated, expressing personal opinions and NOT speaking for any employer, client or Internet Service Provider. |
#24
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Why most new PCs have USB 2.0 but not Firewire builtin?
"Richard Ragon" wrote in message om... Mark M wrote: "Richard Ragon" wrote in message om... Howard McCollister wrote: "Richard Ragon" wrote in message gy.com... Editor www.nutritionsoftware.org wrote: I think all you people missed the obvious.. You guys are looking for some complex answer when the answer is so simple.. Intel invented the USB. Firewire is a competing standard, and since intel based chips are the predominate chips used in the manufactures motherboards, they don't want to add firewire. It's only the customers requesting firewire that we see firewire in anything.. A reiteration of at least 5 different posts in this thread. Of which were cross posted, and I can't see.. So it was YOU who missed what was "obvious" to all but you. So... if I don't subscribe to every one of the news forums that this was posted too.. I'm missing the obvious? Didn't you mean that you've filtered cross-posted messages? If not, then I don't know what prevented seeing it. No matter--just curious. |
#25
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Why most new PCs have USB 2.0 but not Firewire builtin?
On Fri, 28 Nov 2003 04:37:20 GMT, "Editor www.nutritionsoftware.org"
nseditor2002 wrote: My latest Dell has 6 USB 2.0 ports. But no 1394! I'd prefer to have 4 USBs and 2 FWs instead. I don't often do this BUT I flicked over to the QVC shopping channell on UK freeview digital TV the other night when they had a Dell program on selling a specifc version of a Dell 4600 PC. They were going on at how great it was that this thing had a 1394 port for use with DV cams so I thought it ironic what I saw thus post. Where was this port implemented? On the Creative Soundblaster Audoligy 2 sound card that is where. Moral? If you want 1394 out of the box with Dell buy one with the correct creative sound card in place. Note the QVC mob said the specific 4600 they were offering was not available anywhere else but form them so don't slag me off if you can't configure a Dell PC in this way at the Dell web site. Dave |
#26
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Why most new PCs have USB 2.0 but not Firewire builtin?
Using windows with a 3 or more firewire ports causes a lot of problems if
they are on PCI cards. I founds this out from maxtor with a external hard drive. They referred me to a known bug in windows XP that screws up. They sent me to the MS database and sure enough they talk about it. I yanked out a firewire card and just left the firewire on the RT 2500 card and everything worked fine. "Dave Oddie" wrote in message ... On Fri, 28 Nov 2003 04:37:20 GMT, "Editor www.nutritionsoftware.org" nseditor2002 wrote: My latest Dell has 6 USB 2.0 ports. But no 1394! I'd prefer to have 4 USBs and 2 FWs instead. I don't often do this BUT I flicked over to the QVC shopping channell on UK freeview digital TV the other night when they had a Dell program on selling a specifc version of a Dell 4600 PC. They were going on at how great it was that this thing had a 1394 port for use with DV cams so I thought it ironic what I saw thus post. Where was this port implemented? On the Creative Soundblaster Audoligy 2 sound card that is where. Moral? If you want 1394 out of the box with Dell buy one with the correct creative sound card in place. Note the QVC mob said the specific 4600 they were offering was not available anywhere else but form them so don't slag me off if you can't configure a Dell PC in this way at the Dell web site. Dave |
#27
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Why most new PCs have USB 2.0 but not Firewire builtin?
Mark M wrote:
There are comparatively few devices that utilize firewire over USB, and since USB 2.0 is fully compatible with the zillions of existing USB 1.0 devices, it makes sense for all computers to come equipped with 2.0. Thank you, Mr. Lemming. |
#28
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Why most new PCs have USB 2.0 but not Firewire builtin?
Thank you, Mr. Lemming.
(LOL!) I use FW and USB side by side on Wintel systems and must say FW is far more relaible and much easier to use day in & day out. So much for the "march of progress" where Billy and his merry band of men are concerned! |
#29
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Why most new PCs have USB 2.0 but not Firewire builtin?
Right--
My biggest gripe is unfulfilled promises. USB was supposed to allow you to plug in or unplug devices "on the fly". But Windows has a hissy fit if you turn off your digital camera, for example, even if you don't need it and aren't accessing it anymore. And USB doesn't reach sustained speeds at the claimed performance levels. And it can and will bring your entire system down with a crash. It is, in a word, pathetic. Firewire is elegant and reliable. Plug in the camcorder, run Premiere, load the data. When you're done, disconnect or shut off the camera.... and not a peep from firewire. It is actually quite remarkable that USB can't do that. It is beyond incompetent. It's not only that they can't think of a solution, but that they actively suck all the solutions everyone else is thinking of out of the room. Jerry McG wrote: Thank you, Mr. Lemming. (LOL!) I use FW and USB side by side on Wintel systems and must say FW is far more relaible and much easier to use day in & day out. So much for the "march of progress" where Billy and his merry band of men are concerned! |
#30
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Why most new PCs have USB 2.0 but not Firewire builtin?
In rec.video.desktop Bill Van Dyk wrote:
: Firewire is elegant and reliable. Plug in the camcorder, run Premiere, load the : data. When you're done, disconnect or shut off the camera.... and not a peep : from firewire. : It is actually quite remarkable that USB can't do that. It is beyond But is that USB's problem, or the Windows implementation of it ? On my Linux machine I plug/unplug my USB scanner and web cam with no ill effects. -- ================================================== ======== Chris Candreva -- -- (914) 967-7816 WestNet Internet Services of Westchester http://www.westnet.com/ |
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