Advantages of Windows 8?

On Mon, 02 Jul 2012 16:11:17 -0500, Char Jackson
wrote:

[snip]

If you're paying attention to what you're doing, (and I'm sure you
are), you'll most likely become more efficient over time. You'll
develop new muscle memory.

Starting over again is not efficient. If I need to do something
different because of changing requirements in my area, it is one
thing. Having to do it because Microsoft (or whoever) decided to
change things for no good reason is quite another.

[snip]

You see why it is not good to gratuitously change things?

You kind of loaded the question when you characterized the changes as
gratuitous, no?

Well, why does Microsoft keep moving things around? It does not
strike me as at all necessary. Besides, if the move were really
necessary, then it would not be gratuitous, and I would not mind (or
not so much). I am not opposed to sensible change. Senseless change,
OTOH, I do not like.

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko

On Mon, 02 Jul 2012 14:26:11 -0500, Char Jackson wrote:

On Mon, 2 Jul 2012 18:30:04 +0100, mechanic
wrote:

On Mon, 02 Jul 2012 10:06:43 -0500, Char Jackson wrote:

Given that XP has a control panel item called 'Add/Remove
Programs', I would want to hear a reason why it is changed to
another name under Windows 7 and moved to a different place in
the hierarchy.

It's still called "Add or Remove Programs".

No in W7 it's called 'Programs and Features'.

If you had read the post that you snipped, you'd have seen that
Windows still calls it as I mentioned above. I described how you can
see that for yourself. I don't really care what the top of the window
says after the applet has launched.

You finally pushed me over the edge :-)

I went to the Start Orb, typed add rem, and saw a highlighted entry that
said add or remove programs. Clicking on it took me to a panel labeled
Uninstall or change a program. It even had a subtitle explaining
(briefly) how to use it.

Call this a +1.

--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)

Per Char Jackson:
If you're paying attention to what you're doing, (and I'm sure you
are), you'll most likely become more efficient over time. You'll
develop new muscle memory.

Granted.

But it takes time: man hours... and man hours = dollars.

The question begged is "Why should 13,000 employees spend those
man hours if there is no functional gain to be had over the way
it was before?"
--
Pete Cresswell

Per J. P. Gilliver (John):
There's a difference between "thinking of everything" and "letting users
continue to find things where they're used to finding them". It seems to
be a deliberate decision not to do the latter. (Not just at Microsoft,
though I'd say they're by far the worst offenders.)

I wonder if Gates' turning over the helm to others has anything
to do with this?

One of the initial strengths, IMHO, of Windows was the
consistency of the UI across applications and I'm guessing that
Gates was behind that. At one time, I even had a developer
standard from MS that told me where to put stuff, what to call
it, and how various types of buttons should act.

More-and-more I'm seeing applications where that UI is
increasingly abandoned - including Microsoft apps.

I cannot cite off the top of my head, but I'm even seeing apps
where there isn't even a 'File' menu - or any of the other
conventional menus. The functionality is there, but it is
buried beneath different icons depending on the app.
--
Pete Cresswell

On Mon, 02 Jul 2012 19:10:38 -0400, "(PeteCresswell)"
wrote:

Per Char Jackson:
If you're paying attention to what you're doing, (and I'm sure you
are), you'll most likely become more efficient over time. You'll
develop new muscle memory.

Granted.

But it takes time: man hours... and man hours = dollars.

The question begged is "Why should 13,000 employees spend those
man hours if there is no functional gain to be had over the way
it was before?"

If you're asking me to explain Microsoft's design choices and then
defend them, I can't. I wasn't present in the design meetings where
this stuff was discussed. Gene W says the changes were gratuitous and
you say they provided no functional gain. Both suggestions are
probably wrong, but I can't tell you why. There's a slim chance that
it's just change for the sake of change, but that seems unlikely.

--

Char Jackson

In message ,
"(PeteCresswell)" writes:
Per J. P. Gilliver (John):
There's a difference between "thinking of everything" and "letting users
continue to find things where they're used to finding them". It seems to
be a deliberate decision not to do the latter. (Not just at Microsoft,
though I'd say they're by far the worst offenders.)

I wonder if Gates' turning over the helm to others has anything
to do with this?

I doubt it. Windows 3.1's File Manager was replaced by W9x's Windows
Explorer, despite serving the same purpose. (OK, it did much more, but
why change the name?) And another one from that transition: why move the
close function to right next to the maximise and minimise functions,
thus significantly increasing the chance of hitting it by mistake? That
transition was I think still under Bill. (I actually rather like Bill.)
[]
More-and-more I'm seeing applications where that UI is
increasingly abandoned - including Microsoft apps.

I cannot cite off the top of my head, but I'm even seeing apps
where there isn't even a 'File' menu - or any of the other
conventional menus. The functionality is there, but it is
buried beneath different icons depending on the app.

The default in Vista and 7 is for the menus not to be visible anyway,
isn't it?
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G.5AL-IS-P--Ch++(p)Ar@T0H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than
to those attending too small a degree of it. -Thomas Jefferson, 3rd US
president, architect and author (1743-1826)

On Mon, 2 Jul 2012 16:00:15 -0700, "Gene E. Bloch"
wrote:

On Mon, 02 Jul 2012 14:26:11 -0500, Char Jackson wrote:

On Mon, 2 Jul 2012 18:30:04 +0100, mechanic
wrote:

On Mon, 02 Jul 2012 10:06:43 -0500, Char Jackson wrote:

Given that XP has a control panel item called 'Add/Remove
Programs', I would want to hear a reason why it is changed to
another name under Windows 7 and moved to a different place in
the hierarchy.

It's still called "Add or Remove Programs".

No in W7 it's called 'Programs and Features'.

If you had read the post that you snipped, you'd have seen that
Windows still calls it as I mentioned above. I described how you can
see that for yourself. I don't really care what the top of the window
says after the applet has launched.

You finally pushed me over the edge :-)

I don't like the sound of that, and to be honest, reading it scared me
a little at first. :-)

I went to the Start Orb, typed add rem, and saw a highlighted entry that
said add or remove programs. Clicking on it took me to a panel labeled
Uninstall or change a program. It even had a subtitle explaining
(briefly) how to use it.

Call this a +1.

Thanks.

--

Char Jackson

On Mon, 02 Jul 2012 15:17:30 -0700, Gene Wirchenko
wrote:

On Mon, 02 Jul 2012 16:11:17 -0500, Char Jackson
wrote:

[snip]

If you're paying attention to what you're doing, (and I'm sure you
are), you'll most likely become more efficient over time. You'll
develop new muscle memory.

Starting over again is not efficient. If I need to do something
different because of changing requirements in my area, it is one
thing. Having to do it because Microsoft (or whoever) decided to
change things for no good reason is quite another.

I take "for no good reason" to mean you don't know the reason, and not
that Microsoft didn't have a reason. For all we know, they had an
excellent reason. We weren't there.

Note that I support your right to be cranky about changes from one OS
to another. The thing I'm complaining about is that you and I don't
know enough to be able to call those changes gratuitous or for no good
reason.

You see why it is not good to gratuitously change things?

You kind of loaded the question when you characterized the changes as
gratuitous, no?

Well, why does Microsoft keep moving things around? It does not
strike me as at all necessary. Besides, if the move were really
necessary, then it would not be gratuitous, and I would not mind (or
not so much). I am not opposed to sensible change. Senseless change,
OTOH, I do not like.

So since we don't know the reasons for the changes that have been
bothering you, do you concur that calling them gratuitous is
premature? For all we know, they may not be gratuitous at all.

--

Char Jackson

In message , Char Jackson
writes:
[]
I take "for no good reason" to mean you don't know the reason, and not
that Microsoft didn't have a reason. For all we know, they had an
excellent reason. We weren't there.

Note that I support your right to be cranky about changes from one OS
to another. The thing I'm complaining about is that you and I don't
know enough to be able to call those changes gratuitous or for no good
reason.
[]
not so much). I am not opposed to sensible change. Senseless change,
OTOH, I do not like.

So since we don't know the reasons for the changes that have been
bothering you, do you concur that calling them gratuitous is
premature? For all we know, they may not be gratuitous at all.

How long do we have to wait for the explanations/reasons to be given?
Or, in some cases, the reasons may have been given but we do not accept
that they _are_ good reasons.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G.5AL-IS-P--Ch++(p)Ar@T0H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

We shall never - never! - allow foreigners to run our economy. They might cure
it. (George Mikes, "How to be Decadent" [1977].)

On Tue, 3 Jul 2012 03:06:40 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
wrote:

In message , Char Jackson
writes:
[]
I take "for no good reason" to mean you don't know the reason, and not
that Microsoft didn't have a reason. For all we know, they had an
excellent reason. We weren't there.

Note that I support your right to be cranky about changes from one OS
to another. The thing I'm complaining about is that you and I don't
know enough to be able to call those changes gratuitous or for no good
reason.
[]
not so much). I am not opposed to sensible change. Senseless change,
OTOH, I do not like.

So since we don't know the reasons for the changes that have been
bothering you, do you concur that calling them gratuitous is
premature? For all we know, they may not be gratuitous at all.

How long do we have to wait for the explanations/reasons to be given?
Or, in some cases, the reasons may have been given but we do not accept
that they _are_ good reasons.

What makes you think the information you seek will EVER be released?
As consumers, we certainly have no right to it, nor do we have an
expectation that it will someday be provided. Or at least I don't.

--

Char Jackson

From what i remember people automatically liked windows xp because you could leave your
computer on for days at a time. Winodws 98SE always had to be rebooted once or twice a day.

Good Guy wrote:

On 02/07/2012 00:43, Tony wrote:
If xp mode doesn't exist in windows 8 then it will be a long, long time. The only
selling feature of windows 7 was xp mode. So XP may be aroound longer than windows 7,
windows 8 and windows 9.


When a new OS is released, people always hate it but in time they get
used to it and come to like it more than previous OS's. For example,
when XP was first released, people hated it and kept using Windows 98SE
and Windows NT 4. Now it seems they can't live without XP!!! Even
Windows 7 was hated by many and now they love it.

--
Good Guy
Website: http://mytaxsite.co.uk
Website: http://html-css.co.uk
Forums: http://mytaxsite.boardhost.com
Email: http://mytaxsite.co.uk/contact-us

--
The Grandmaster of the CyberFROG

Come get your ticket to CyberFROG city

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Very few. I used to take calls from *rank* noobs but got fired the first day on the job for
potty mouth,

Bur-ring, i'll get this one: WHAT'S YOUR PROBLEM JERK!!? We're here to help you dickweed,
ok, ok give the power cord the jiggily piggily wiggily all the while pushing the power
button repeatedly now take everything out of your computer except the power supply and
*one* stick of ram. Ok get the next sucker on the phone.

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There's the employer and the employee and the FROGGER and the FROGEE, which one are you?

Hamster isn't a newsreader it's a mistake!

El-Gonzo Jackson FROGS both me and Chuckcar (I just got EL-FROG-OED!!)

All hail Chuckcar the CZAR!! Or in F-R-O-Gland Chuckcar laCZAR, ChuckCZAR!!

I hate them both, With useless bogus bull**** you need at least *three* fulltime jobs to
afford either one of them

I'm a fulltime text *only* man on usenet now. The rest of the world downloads the binary
files not me i can't afford thousands of dollars a month

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sir?

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Using my technical prowess and computer abilities to answer questions beyond the realm of
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This sig file was compiled via my journeys through usenet

On Sun, 01 Jul 2012 18:34:12 -0400, Nil
wrote:

On 01 Jul 2012, wrote in alt.windows7.general:

When this new Windows 8 is released, is there any advantages to
upgrading from Windows 7 Professional?

Judging from my experience with the Previews... I can see no advantage
at all over Windows 7, and some disadvantage due to it's new,
unfriendly, and inappropriate interface changes.

I hate to say that, because I do think Windows interface has improved
in most ways with each iteration. But Windows 8 seemeth to stink, yea
verily.


I have loaded the preview of Win 8 and I cannot find anything, when I
try to do anything.

My wife would not put up with the changes to the interface so there is
no way we will be going to Win 8. ( She is not even interested in
ipgarding from Office 2003 to 2010 as it would involve to much
change).
I will be getting a new PC later this year, will not be getting Win 8
on it.

This version I think will go the way of Vista( which I didn't mind,
but Win 7 was better).

Microsoft will need to make the mobile phone interface optional before
I will use it.

DJT

On Mon, 02 Jul 2012 19:46:37 -0500, Char Jackson
wrote:

On Mon, 02 Jul 2012 19:10:38 -0400, "(PeteCresswell)"
wrote:

Per Char Jackson:
If you're paying attention to what you're doing, (and I'm sure you
are), you'll most likely become more efficient over time. You'll
develop new muscle memory.

Granted.

But it takes time: man hours... and man hours = dollars.

The question begged is "Why should 13,000 employees spend those
man hours if there is no functional gain to be had over the way
it was before?"

If you're asking me to explain Microsoft's design choices and then
defend them, I can't. I wasn't present in the design meetings where
this stuff was discussed. Gene W says the changes were gratuitous and
you say they provided no functional gain. Both suggestions are
probably wrong, but I can't tell you why. There's a slim chance that
it's just change for the sake of change, but that seems unlikely.

It seem to me that if it was done for a good reason, then it
would be fairly obvious.

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko

On Mon, 02 Jul 2012 14:26:11 -0500, Char Jackson wrote:

On Mon, 2 Jul 2012 18:30:04 +0100, mechanic
wrote:

On Mon, 02 Jul 2012 10:06:43 -0500, Char Jackson wrote:

Given that XP has a control panel item called 'Add/Remove
Programs', I would want to hear a reason why it is changed to
another name under Windows 7 and moved to a different place in
the hierarchy.

It's still called "Add or Remove Programs".

No in W7 it's called 'Programs and Features'.

If you had read the post that you snipped, you'd have seen that
Windows still calls it as I mentioned above. I described how you
can see that for yourself. I don't really care what the top of
the window says after the applet has launched.

I don't know whether you're just being awkward for the sake of it,
but if you open Control Panel in W7 you won't find "Add or Remove
Programs" but you will find that functionality under "Programs and
Features". What's so hard about that?

On Tue, 03 Jul 2012 13:46:49 +1000, DJT wrote:

Microsoft will need to make the mobile phone interface optional
before I will use it.

Don't panic, if you just disregard it, it seems to get out of the
way.