OAuth2?

Ralph Fox wrote:

I can confirm that an AutoIt script is quite capable of launching
Thunderbird with the CLI and then poking Send.
(FWIW it is easier to use the accelerator than the button.)

Accelerator? Is that an extension to add to Thunderbird?

On 2020-03-26 02:15, Ralph Fox wrote:


I can confirm that an AutoIt script is quite capable of
launching Thunderbird with the CLI and then poking Send.
(FWIW it is easier to use the accelerator than the button.)

Hi Ralph,

So far, when I have made calls to Thunderbird Compose,
I have not wanted to do an automatic send. Instead, I
want to review the message, make any special additions
and options, then press Send myself.

For this project, I have to operate "outside" the shell
and be aware when I am and am not inside a GUI. I also
have to be cross platform with Linux and Windows.
Fortunately, not Apple. Anyway, using Thunderbird is
not an option as I will be outside both the GUI and
the shell.

Although I do maintain programs written in batch and bash,
I no longer write them. I have instead switched to Raku
(Perl 6), where I can call helper applications, such as
the one(s) I have asked about in this thread or call
system functions at my discretion. For instance, I
have written modules for systems calls to substitute
from "msg.exe" in Windows and to write and read the
registry. And I can call any helper application
I choose, such as cURL (cross platform) or wmic.exe
(Windows only). And I can easily tell what OS I am
operating inside of.

I am real close to cross platforming sending eMail
with OAuth2. The reason for this post was a fall back
in case I do not succeed in a reasonable time frame.
Come July, the poop hits the fan.

Thank you for all the help and tips!

-T

On 2020-03-26 00:56, VanguardLH wrote:
VanguardLH wrote:

In addition, I mentioned The Bat! client, ...
One of the command-line arguments is /MAIL along with all the typical
mailto arguments. Another is /SEND which, according to its
description, "If this parameter is used, the created message will be
sent as soon as it has been created."

Forgot to cite where I got the info on the command-line switches and
their args for The Bat! client, which are described at:

https://www.ritlabs.com/en/products/...mmand-line.php

I don't use Bat!, so I'm just going by their help article.


Hi Vanguard,

That is a sweet bit of code! Thank you!

It does not support OAuth2 though. But I
can see it for other purposes. The more tools
in the toolbox the better.

I have switched from writing in batch and bash to
Raku (Perl 6), where I can call helper applications
or make system API calls. It is some powerful
stuff. And the regex's, once you get use to them,
are to die for. I can do things with strings in
Raku that will make your head spin. You should
see the stuff I do with raw web pages.

It is looking hopeful that I will be able to write
send mail with OAuth myself before the July deadline
and will not need a helper command line utility.
That is desirable anyway, as I can keep track of
the token the way I want and maintain the code myself
and not be at the mercy of someone else's charity.
Open Source will "usually" fix things for you, where
Paid software typically just tells you to go to
hell, politely. It is nice to be able to just
do it yourself.

Thank you for all the help and tips!

-T

On 2020-03-26 00:52, VanguardLH wrote:

In your unpublished white paper, just what is the source of condemning
the use of app passwords to preclude that as a solution as the
workaround already deliberately offered by Google?

Don't care. This project requires that I operate with OAuth2
authentication, AND NOT JUST WITH GOOGLE.

You say you must use
OAUTH2, but don't substantiate that claim. Customers will always make
demands that cannot be achieved. You'll have to get used to saying No.
Give them a summary of your research, but likely they won't bother
because they still want something they can't have.

This one I do believe I will be able to achieve.

Since you're the one that would building the solution for your
customers, how would they even know app passwords were used as the
workaround supplied by Google?

Again, don't care. It is not part of the project.

They just want a CLI client (or maybe
it's you and only you that wants one) that can use Gmail. Do they
really care how it happens? When they use a regular GUI e-mail client,
do they care about what are the POP, IMAP, SMTP, Exchange, or Gmail API
commands that get sent by the client?

No they don't care. But I do and I am the one who has
to maintain it. And not just on Windows either. I
did not tell you this as I was only after the specific
information that I asked and did not not want to clutter up
the question.


Google's workaround appears not only designed to allow continued use of
old clients that don't support OAUTH2, but even scripts or CLI clients
that make simple SMTP commands without any OAUTH2 overhead.

Don't care.

mailto: and Thunbderbird,

Has to operate outside both the shell and a GUI. I
did not tell you that because I asked a SPECIFIC question
and was looking for an answer to only that specific
question.

Not that sharing other information is/was not appreciated,
it can be very useful at times. Just not this time.

You want others to come up with a solution that
isn't defined, and OAUTH2 is not sufficient to explain why your solution
cannot employ a workaround to avoid OAUTH2.

What? I am only asking SPECIFICALLY if anyone knows of
a command line utility that supports OAuth2. I am not
asking anyone to develop anything.

I am the developer in this instance. And only if I
can not develop a module that will achieve what I
am after before the July deadline with Google.

And if folks can do this is in Python, which they are,
I can do it in Raku. Maybe I will have to make a Python
call, but I hope not.

T wrote:
On 2020-03-26 00:52, VanguardLH wrote:

In your unpublished white paper, just what is the source of condemning
the use of app passwords to preclude that as a solution as the
workaround already deliberately offered by Google?

Don't care. This project requires that I operate with OAuth2
authentication, AND NOT JUST WITH GOOGLE.

But yet you cannot substantiate this 'requirement'! We (several
people) have proven that you do *not* need OAuth2 for Google and not for
Yahoo. So pray tell *which* MSP requires OAuth2 and offers no
alternative.

You say (you) "Don't care.", well we don't care for your imagined
'requirement's. We live in the real world.

So give (and cite) a MSP which *actually* requires OAuth2 *without* an
(RFC-compliant) alternative, or kindly STFU and stop bothering us with
your pipe-dreams.

T wrote:
On 2020-03-25 11:31, Knarf Gewtools wrote:
[Disclaimer: Intentional morph to get past your silly fingers-in-ears
filter/attitude.]

Thank you for helping me update my kill file

QED.

T wrote:
On 2020-03-26 02:23, Ralph Fox wrote:
[...]

Do you have another link which actually says that you won't be able
to use an app password with a G-suite account?

No, but I never really looked as what I need is to get
OAuth2 working.

Ralph (and VanguardLH), here he's again dismissing the App password
solution (and again without substantiating the "need" for OAuth2).

I think he just rejects the solution because he doesn't understand/
realize that it is a solution and even the only proper one.

IMO, this guy is beyond help and his fingers-in-ears, obnoxious,
pompous attitude indicates that it's unlikely to change for the better.

T wrote:
[...]

Vanguard ...
... sometimes you go off on tangents and
get quite condescending in the process.

"Unintended self-satire is a pleasure to observe."

On Thu, 26 Mar 2020 06:15:50 -0500, VanguardLH wrote:
Ralph Fox wrote:

I can confirm that an AutoIt script is quite capable of launching
Thunderbird with the CLI and then poking Send.
(FWIW it is easier to use the accelerator than the button.)

Accelerator? Is that an extension to add to Thunderbird?


No.

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/menurc/accelerators-resource
| An accelerator is a keystroke defined by the application to give the user a quick way to perform a task.


--
Kind regards
Ralph

T wrote:

[The Bat!] is a sweet bit of code! Thank you!

It does not support OAuth2 though.

You sure? Have you tested? In a prior reply, I cited their article
noting they added OAUTH2 back in 2016. Here's their blog post again:

https://www.ritlabs.com/en/news/6777/

I don't know if you can combine their command-line switches, like using
/MAILmailtoArgs and /Sendaccountmask, which would let you have
multiple accounts defined within Bat! but let you specify through which
account to send.

I have switched from writing in batch and bash to Raku (Perl 6), where
I can call helper applications or make system API calls. It is some
powerful stuff.

Can you make .NET calls? If so, one of the articles I mentioned before
is a .NET lib on using Google's Mail API (but, I believe, as I
mentioned, you must first have a Google project created where you can
manage your API quota, clients, and other setup).

And the regex's, once you get use to them, are to die for.

The same reason I picked 40tude Dialog as my NNTP client. Back when I
was doing trials of multiple free NNTP clients, I either found regex was
absent, limited, or wasn't regex at all but a stored search (like in
Forte Agent back then). Plus it let me test on non-overview headers
provided I enabled the option to download the full message (all headers
and body) rather than just the overview headers (and then get the full
message after clicking on a message, but then that was too late to
auto-run the regex filters). I've been able to define filters that are
narrowly focused on unwanted, and to avoid false positives. I don't
delete unwanted posts, but instead flag them Ignored and use a default
view of Hide Ignored Messages. That way, I can occasionally switch to
the All Messages view to check the accuracy of my regex filters, plus
sometimes someone will mention something from a normally hidden post
that I need to check.

I've had to learn a lot of regex; however, there is a hell of a lot more
to learn, like how to not use the greedy operators. I even had to learn
about using the (?-s) modifier to make sure the regex filter did not
search beyond the end of a line, since searching in the headers would
continue into the body of the message which means possibly more false
positives. Quite often I've had to go online to figure out how to do
something with regex. The regex can get so complex that it reminds me
of APL where a few operators can be compounded, so one short line does a
lot, plus you needed a special APL keyboard with all the unique symbols.

On 2020-03-26 10:55, VanguardLH wrote:
T wrote:

[The Bat!] is a sweet bit of code! Thank you!

It does not support OAuth2 though.

You sure? Have you tested? In a prior reply, I cited their article
noting they added OAUTH2 back in 2016. Here's their blog post again:

https://www.ritlabs.com/en/news/6777/

Interesting. Now in the Christmas edition.

I searched through their manual and did not find it.

Maybe it will make a good replace4ment for Thunderbird in Windows. No
cross platform support though.


I don't know if you can combine their command-line switches, like using
/MAILmailtoArgs and /Sendaccountmask, which would let you have
multiple accounts defined within Bat! but let you specify through which
account to send.

I have switched from writing in batch and bash to Raku (Perl 6), where
I can call helper applications or make system API calls. It is some
powerful stuff.

Can you make .NET calls?

Yes

If so, one of the articles I mentioned before
is a .NET lib on using Google's Mail API (but, I believe, as I
mentioned, you must first have a Google project created where you can
manage your API quota, clients, and other setup).

I have several article from Google's web site on how to
do that. I do believe yours was one of them.

With Google's API I have to create a "Project" on
their web site. I am trying to avoid that.


And the regex's, once you get use to them, are to die for.


I've had to learn a lot of regex; however, there is a hell of a lot more
to learn, like how to not use the greedy operators. I even had to learn
about using the (?-s) modifier to make sure the regex filter did not
search beyond the end of a line, since searching in the headers would
continue into the body of the message which means possibly more false
positives. Quite often I've had to go online to figure out how to do
something with regex. The regex can get so complex that it reminds me
of APL where a few operators can be compounded, so one short line does a
lot, plus you needed a special APL keyboard with all the unique symbols.


Greedy means to search to the last instance. Non greedy
means to stop at the first instance


Greedy:
$ raku -e 'my $x="abc abc abc"; $x~~s/ .* abc /def/; say $x;'
def

Non Greedy:
$ raku -e 'my $x="abc abc abc"; $x~~s/ .*? abc /def/; say $x;'
def abc abc

Global:
$ raku -e 'my $x="abc abc abc"; $x~~s:global/ abc /def/; say $x;'
def def def

Here is me tearing apart a web page with greedy and non-greedy:

for $WebPage.lines - $Line {
if $Line.contains( "rakudo-star" && "-win-x86_64-(JIT).msi" ) {
#
https://rakudo.org/dl/star/rakudo-st...6_64-(JIT).msi
$ClickHere = $Line;
$ClickHere ~~ s/ .*? 'href="' //; # non-greedy
$ClickHere ~~ s/ msi .* /msi/; # greedy
$ClickHere = "https://rakudo.org" ~ $ClickHere;

$NewRev = $ClickHere;
$NewRev ~~ s| .*? 'rakudo-star-' ||; # non-greedy
$NewRev ~~ s/ '-win' .* //; # greedy
$NewRev ~~ s/ '-'/./;
# PrintRed( "NewRev = $NewRev\nClickHere = $ClickHere\n" );
# exit;
last;
} # if contains
} # for

T wrote:

On 2020-03-26 10:55, VanguardLH wrote:
T wrote:

[The Bat!] is a sweet bit of code! Thank you!

It does not support OAuth2 though.

You sure? Have you tested? In a prior reply, I cited their article
noting they added OAUTH2 back in 2016. Here's their blog post again:

https://www.ritlabs.com/en/news/6777/

Interesting. Now in the Christmas edition.

That was back in 2016 for version 7.1.8 released then. It's up to
version 9.1.6 now.

Note: From https://www.ritlabs.com/en/products/thebat/order.php, doesn't
look like it is free, but then you did not stipulate that as a
requirement. It has a 30-day trial for both Home and Pro versions. I
didn't bother to hunt down its license terms to see if you need to buy a
license for each of your customers since you'll be using it for
business, not for personal use.

https://www.ritlabs.com/en/products/thebat/

From their comparison chart there, yep, you'll have to buy the Pro
edition. The Home edition is for non-commercial use.

I searched through their manual and did not find it.

I did not find any screenshots showing the configuration of an e-mail
account in the Bat! program. I did find (besides the blog post):

https://www.ritlabs.com/en/products/...ser-policy.php

Didn't find instructions on creating an account within Bat!. Seems when
you specify a Gmail account, like , the program goes
through an automated setup that uses OAUTH2. My guess, if you don't
want to use OAUTH2 by default, is you would do a manual config where you
say you want an IMAP account and choose the auth method.

https://www.ritlabs.com/en/support/help/62/

My guess is you use Auto to configure a Gmail account to use OAUTH2, or
you override and select IMAP to manually configure the account. That
article shows the dialog for Transport, but nothing there regarding
authentication method. So, again, I'm guessing you have to use their
Auto setup to define a Gmail account which will then use OAUTH2.

Ooh, wait a moment, I read a bit more and under Authentication you
select "Require secure authentication" and choose OAUTH2. I XOAUTH2
(https://developers.google.com/gmail/...auth2-protocol) is also a
choice, but that combines standard OAUTH2 with non-standard SASL binding
for OAUTH. SASL-OAUTH2 is not yet ratified, so it's a risk to use it
(https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/rfc7628/, still in draft status, or a
/proposed/ standard).

On 2020-03-27 00:32, VanguardLH wrote:
T wrote:

On 2020-03-26 10:55, VanguardLH wrote:
T wrote:

[The Bat!] is a sweet bit of code! Thank you!

It does not support OAuth2 though.

You sure? Have you tested? In a prior reply, I cited their article
noting they added OAUTH2 back in 2016. Here's their blog post again:

https://www.ritlabs.com/en/news/6777/

Interesting. Now in the Christmas edition.

That was back in 2016 for version 7.1.8 released then. It's up to
version 9.1.6 now.

Note: From https://www.ritlabs.com/en/products/thebat/order.php, doesn't
look like it is free, but then you did not stipulate that as a
requirement. It has a 30-day trial for both Home and Pro versions. I
didn't bother to hunt down its license terms to see if you need to buy a
license for each of your customers since you'll be using it for
business, not for personal use.

https://www.ritlabs.com/en/products/thebat/

From their comparison chart there, yep, you'll have to buy the Pro
edition. The Home edition is for non-commercial use.

I searched through their manual and did not find it.

I did not find any screenshots showing the configuration of an e-mail
account in the Bat! program. I did find (besides the blog post):

https://www.ritlabs.com/en/products/...ser-policy.php

Didn't find instructions on creating an account within Bat!. Seems when
you specify a Gmail account, like , the program goes
through an automated setup that uses OAUTH2. My guess, if you don't
want to use OAUTH2 by default, is you would do a manual config where you
say you want an IMAP account and choose the auth method.

https://www.ritlabs.com/en/support/help/62/

My guess is you use Auto to configure a Gmail account to use OAUTH2, or
you override and select IMAP to manually configure the account. That
article shows the dialog for Transport, but nothing there regarding
authentication method. So, again, I'm guessing you have to use their
Auto setup to define a Gmail account which will then use OAUTH2.

Ooh, wait a moment, I read a bit more and under Authentication you
select "Require secure authentication" and choose OAUTH2. I XOAUTH2
(https://developers.google.com/gmail/...auth2-protocol) is also a
choice, but that combines standard OAUTH2 with non-standard SASL binding
for OAUTH. SASL-OAUTH2 is not yet ratified, so it's a risk to use it
(https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/rfc7628/, still in draft status, or a
/proposed/ standard).


Thank you!

On 2020-03-27 00:32, VanguardLH wrote:
you need to buy a
license for each of your customers since you'll be using it for
business

Hmmmm. A pay version that did not support OAuth2 until last
December. I sense a Pay Software, me fix something, go to hell
attitude.

These guys do not look like the can be counted on to
fix things. If I am going to pay you for your software,
you'd better fix your sh*t and do it in a timely manner!

I don't have any trouble getting my customers to buy
software if it is under $100.00.

T wrote:

A pay version that did not support OAuth2 until last
December.

Where did you see they did not add OAUTH2 until last December (aka
December 2019)? Their blog to which I linked that announced they added
OAUTH2 was dated back in January 2016. Not 3 months ago, but over 4
*YEARS* ago.

For more evidence, see:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bat!#History

Version 7.1 released Jan 2016 added OAUTH2 support.

These guys do not look like the can be counted on to fix things.

Supposition without evidence. You're making up excuses to qualify your
decision to cease investigation.

If I am going to pay you for your software, you'd better fix your sh*t
and do it in a timely manner!

More suppositions without any evidence. More FUD.

First, visit their forums to see who is responding there. Then, if you
buy the program, report back after you have tried working with them to
resolve an issue. I'd suggest first hitting their forums with your
inquiries rather than waiting for responses back from their technical
support, especially if you're asking how to use the product rather than
reporting something not working with it.

It's obvious you don't want to spend the time to test The Bat! as a
solution or spend the money on it (for your copy to do the testing
although you'll pass that cost to customers later if it is a solution).
So, just say so. Stop condemning without proof, and just admit to your
bias.

I don't have any trouble getting my customers to buy software if it is
under $100.00.

Are these the same customers that wouldn't spend a dime on
business-grade backup software, like Macrium Reflect, and why you were
still trying to use free Cobian for them?