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  #1  
Old June 3rd 15, 03:46 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Keith Nuttle
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,844
Default Windows 10

In reviewing the need to upgrade to Windows 10 from 8.1, the question
comes up about the size of the Windows 10 installation on an existing
8.1 install?

Will Windows 10, increase the size of the OS install appreciably.


What about a tablet will a Windows 10 install increase the size of the
OS install on a tablet? (HP Stream 7 32 gb)
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  #2  
Old June 3rd 15, 04:56 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Stef
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 364
Default Windows 10

Keith Nuttle wrote:

In reviewing the need to upgrade to Windows 10 from 8.1, the question
comes up about the size of the Windows 10 installation on an existing
8.1 install?

Will Windows 10, increase the size of the OS install appreciably.


What about a tablet will a Windows 10 install increase the size of the
OS install on a tablet? (HP Stream 7 32 gb)


As far as specific numbers, no one will know exactly until the final W10
is released. And, of course, it will depend on which one you get. But!
Ask yourself this: When has a new Windows release's footprint ever
been SMALLER than the previous release?

Stef
  #3  
Old June 3rd 15, 05:52 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Ed Cryer
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,621
Default Windows 10

Stef wrote:
Keith Nuttle wrote:

In reviewing the need to upgrade to Windows 10 from 8.1, the question
comes up about the size of the Windows 10 installation on an existing
8.1 install?

Will Windows 10, increase the size of the OS install appreciably.


What about a tablet will a Windows 10 install increase the size of the
OS install on a tablet? (HP Stream 7 32 gb)


As far as specific numbers, no one will know exactly until the final W10
is released. And, of course, it will depend on which one you get. But!
Ask yourself this: When has a new Windows release's footprint ever
been SMALLER than the previous release?

Stef


Plus, of course, the replaced OS will be stored on your hard drive; some
folder such as Old-Windows.

Ed

  #4  
Old June 3rd 15, 06:27 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Disguised
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 68
Default Windows 10

On 03-Jun-2015 12:52, Ed Cryer wrote:
Stef wrote:
Keith Nuttle wrote:

In reviewing the need to upgrade to Windows 10 from 8.1, the question
comes up about the size of the Windows 10 installation on an existing
8.1 install?

Will Windows 10, increase the size of the OS install appreciably.


What about a tablet will a Windows 10 install increase the size of the
OS install on a tablet? (HP Stream 7 32 gb)


As far as specific numbers, no one will know exactly until the final W10
is released. And, of course, it will depend on which one you get. But!
Ask yourself this: When has a new Windows release's footprint ever
been SMALLER than the previous release?

Stef


Plus, of course, the replaced OS will be stored on your hard drive; some
folder such as Old-Windows.

Ed


http://betanews.com/2015/06/03/micro...ter-upgrading/
  #5  
Old June 3rd 15, 06:46 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Big_Al[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 431
Default Windows 10

Stef wrote on 6/3/2015 11:56 AM:
Keith Nuttle wrote:

In reviewing the need to upgrade to Windows 10 from 8.1, the question
comes up about the size of the Windows 10 installation on an existing
8.1 install?

Will Windows 10, increase the size of the OS install appreciably.


What about a tablet will a Windows 10 install increase the size of the
OS install on a tablet? (HP Stream 7 32 gb)


As far as specific numbers, no one will know exactly until the final W10
is released. And, of course, it will depend on which one you get. But!
Ask yourself this: When has a new Windows release's footprint ever
been SMALLER than the previous release?

Stef

My clean install of the Preview 10122 (+/-) was only 13G. With a few,few, programs. Can't say if that is smaller
than my virgin 8.1 with pgms or not.

  #6  
Old June 3rd 15, 09:07 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Paul
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 18,275
Default Windows 10

Ed Cryer wrote:
Stef wrote:
Keith Nuttle wrote:

In reviewing the need to upgrade to Windows 10 from 8.1, the question
comes up about the size of the Windows 10 installation on an existing
8.1 install?

Will Windows 10, increase the size of the OS install appreciably.


What about a tablet will a Windows 10 install increase the size of the
OS install on a tablet? (HP Stream 7 32 gb)


As far as specific numbers, no one will know exactly until the final W10
is released. And, of course, it will depend on which one you get. But!
Ask yourself this: When has a new Windows release's footprint ever
been SMALLER than the previous release?

Stef


Plus, of course, the replaced OS will be stored on your hard drive; some
folder such as Old-Windows.

Ed


Yes, Windows.old takes space.

So all you need, is a reliable number for the Win10 Preview size
of C:, as an estimator of the additional space. After you
run Disk Cleanup and remove Windows.old from there, you'll get
that space back (from the old OS), and C: will actually have
less Microsoft content on it than previously. But the "peak" will
be the additional size required by Win10 C:\Windows folder. My
Windows 7 C: partition is 40GB, used is 26GB, leaving 14GB, a
tight fit if the Win10 Windows folder is 13GB. YMMV. If the install
finished, some portion of that 26GB would get deleted
during Disk Cleanup.

There is an incentive now, to keep Win10 size down. To make
it smaller than Windows 8. And that reason is "market capture
for tablets and smartphones and mobile devices". The idea
is to continue to use 32GB Flash for those devices. Can't
pork out the install too much, or it won't fit. If you make
Windows 10 low-end devices more expensive than a Chromebook
to build, it makes Microsoft less competitive when crushing
the Chromebook.

Paul
  #7  
Old June 4th 15, 12:02 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Bill[_40_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 346
Default Windows 10

In message , Keith Nuttle
writes
What about a tablet will a Windows 10 install increase the size of the
OS install on a tablet? (HP Stream 7 32 gb)


Isn't that a Wimboot device like my Linx? I assume the machine
manufacturer will have to build a new Win10 OS for it, rather than you
being able to juggle all the compressed and uncompressed bits to create
the upgrade.
--
Bill
  #8  
Old June 4th 15, 02:00 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
. . .winston
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,345
Default Windows 10

Keith Nuttle wrote:
In reviewing the need to upgrade to Windows 10 from 8.1, the question
comes up about the size of the Windows 10 installation on an existing
8.1 install?

Will Windows 10, increase the size of the OS install appreciably.


What about a tablet will a Windows 10 install increase the size of the
OS install on a tablet? (HP Stream 7 32 gb)


Clean or compared to full updated Win7 or Windows 8.1 system ?
- it makes a difference

Choose the answers you receive wisely.

--
...winston
msft mvp consumer apps
  #9  
Old June 4th 15, 03:46 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Stef
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 364
Default Windows 10

Big_Al wrote:

Stef wrote on 6/3/2015 11:56 AM:
Keith Nuttle wrote:

In reviewing the need to upgrade to Windows 10 from 8.1, the question
comes up about the size of the Windows 10 installation on an existing
8.1 install?

Will Windows 10, increase the size of the OS install appreciably.


What about a tablet will a Windows 10 install increase the size of the
OS install on a tablet? (HP Stream 7 32 gb)


As far as specific numbers, no one will know exactly until the final W10
is released. And, of course, it will depend on which one you get. But!
Ask yourself this: When has a new Windows release's footprint ever
been SMALLER than the previous release?

Stef

My clean install of the Preview 10122 (+/-) was only 13G. With a few,few,
programs. Can't say if that is smaller
than my virgin 8.1 with pgms or not.


We'll just have to wait and see. Hopefully, W10 will only be marginally
larger than 8 or 8.1, since it's mostly the same code, and NOT like
Vista was to XP. However, I consider 13GB still pretty large, but then
I'm spoiled. With Linux I'm used to half that including all the
applications. Windows has always had big feet. ;-)

Stef
  #10  
Old June 4th 15, 11:57 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Paul
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 18,275
Default Windows 10

Stef wrote:
Big_Al wrote:

Stef wrote on 6/3/2015 11:56 AM:
Keith Nuttle wrote:

In reviewing the need to upgrade to Windows 10 from 8.1, the question
comes up about the size of the Windows 10 installation on an existing
8.1 install?

Will Windows 10, increase the size of the OS install appreciably.


What about a tablet will a Windows 10 install increase the size of the
OS install on a tablet? (HP Stream 7 32 gb)
As far as specific numbers, no one will know exactly until the final W10
is released. And, of course, it will depend on which one you get. But!
Ask yourself this: When has a new Windows release's footprint ever
been SMALLER than the previous release?

Stef

My clean install of the Preview 10122 (+/-) was only 13G. With a few,few,
programs. Can't say if that is smaller
than my virgin 8.1 with pgms or not.


We'll just have to wait and see. Hopefully, W10 will only be marginally
larger than 8 or 8.1, since it's mostly the same code, and NOT like
Vista was to XP. However, I consider 13GB still pretty large, but then
I'm spoiled. With Linux I'm used to half that including all the
applications. Windows has always had big feet. ;-)

Stef


On a tablet, a different scheme is used.

Tablets now use WIM-boot. The install.wim stays
compressed, and is decompressed on demand. Deltas
to the read-only install.wim are stored in a
persistent file system. This should sound
familiar to you. And you know what inspired
such a scheme and "who did it first".

In that case, the cost of the install is 3.5GB,
the same size as the installation DVD in fact.

After the OS has been running for a year, naturally
it's grown a bit. You can't deliver a couple hundred
patches in a year, without storage space for them.
Those would sit in the persistent store.

I would "like to be a fly on the wall", to see
how they're going to upgrade a WIM-boot :-) Should
be fun.

Paul
  #11  
Old June 5th 15, 04:42 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Stef
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 364
Default Windows 10

Paul wrote:

Stef wrote:
Big_Al wrote:

Stef wrote on 6/3/2015 11:56 AM:
Keith Nuttle wrote:

In reviewing the need to upgrade to Windows 10 from 8.1, the question
comes up about the size of the Windows 10 installation on an existing
8.1 install?

Will Windows 10, increase the size of the OS install appreciably.


What about a tablet will a Windows 10 install increase the size of the
OS install on a tablet? (HP Stream 7 32 gb)
As far as specific numbers, no one will know exactly until the final W10
is released. And, of course, it will depend on which one you get. But!
Ask yourself this: When has a new Windows release's footprint ever
been SMALLER than the previous release?

Stef

My clean install of the Preview 10122 (+/-) was only 13G. With a few,few,
programs. Can't say if that is smaller
than my virgin 8.1 with pgms or not.


We'll just have to wait and see. Hopefully, W10 will only be marginally
larger than 8 or 8.1, since it's mostly the same code, and NOT like
Vista was to XP. However, I consider 13GB still pretty large, but then
I'm spoiled. With Linux I'm used to half that including all the
applications. Windows has always had big feet. ;-)

Stef


On a tablet, a different scheme is used.

Tablets now use WIM-boot. The install.wim stays
compressed, and is decompressed on demand. Deltas
to the read-only install.wim are stored in a
persistent file system. This should sound
familiar to you. And you know what inspired
such a scheme and "who did it first".

In that case, the cost of the install is 3.5GB,
the same size as the installation DVD in fact.


Still parts need to be uncompressed into RAM to run. Compressed OSes is
not new. But MS has lots of experience running big OSes on low RAM
systems.

After the OS has been running for a year, naturally
it's grown a bit. You can't deliver a couple hundred
patches in a year, without storage space for them.
Those would sit in the persistent store.


And the resulting increase in boot times and gradual performance hits.

I would "like to be a fly on the wall", to see
how they're going to upgrade a WIM-boot :-) Should
be fun.


Probably create a new WIM-boot file as part of the update procedure.
Similar to what Linux does with initrd or initramfs when an
update/upgrade requires it. I see this on my Linux system usually when
a kernel load module gets updated. Totally transparent to the user.


Stef

  #12  
Old June 5th 15, 10:05 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Bill[_40_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 346
Default Windows 10

In message , Stef
writes
Probably create a new WIM-boot file as part of the update procedure.
Similar to what Linux does with initrd or initramfs when an
update/upgrade requires it. I see this on my Linux system usually
when a kernel load module gets updated. Totally transparent to the user.

See my earlier reply. My Linx tablet seems to have some drivers inside
the compressed file and some outside. I suspect that the machine
manufacturer will have to put together the update.
--
Bill
  #13  
Old June 5th 15, 03:51 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Paul
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 18,275
Default Windows 10

Bill wrote:
In message , Stef
writes
Probably create a new WIM-boot file as part of the update procedure.
Similar to what Linux does with initrd or initramfs when an
update/upgrade requires it. I see this on my Linux system usually
when a kernel load module gets updated. Totally transparent to the user.

See my earlier reply. My Linx tablet seems to have some drivers inside
the compressed file and some outside. I suspect that the machine
manufacturer will have to put together the update.


I'm not so much worried about who prepares the update,
as how the space part of it will be managed. If the
tablet has a 32GB flash chip, the first request that
installer is going to make, is a request for more
free space. So you'll have to move the movie collection
off the tablet.

They can easily make a Windows.old. But the existing
file system consists of the read-only WIM, plus a
persistent file system on top of it. When the new WIM
comes in, the scheme probably has no way to accommodate
a second WIM. Perhaps it will mean setting up two
file systems, which would not then be the same thing
as on a desktop. There could be an entirely
different set of symptoms, when a tablet upgrade
goes nuts. Imagine the mess and the lack of solutions.
Like, what are we going to tell the first tablet
user who comes here, and the upgrade failed, and
the tablet won't boot ? Where would you start ?
(You know they don't have a backup...) While the WIM-boot
is a clever idea, I still haven't heard the story
how it is maintainable.

Paul
  #14  
Old June 5th 15, 04:52 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Stef
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 364
Default Windows 10

Paul wrote:

Bill wrote:
In message , Stef
writes
Probably create a new WIM-boot file as part of the update procedure.
Similar to what Linux does with initrd or initramfs when an
update/upgrade requires it. I see this on my Linux system usually
when a kernel load module gets updated. Totally transparent to the user.

See my earlier reply. My Linx tablet seems to have some drivers inside
the compressed file and some outside. I suspect that the machine
manufacturer will have to put together the update.


I'm not so much worried about who prepares the update,
as how the space part of it will be managed. If the
tablet has a 32GB flash chip, the first request that
installer is going to make, is a request for more
free space. So you'll have to move the movie collection
off the tablet.


Probably exactly what was done with desktops and notebooks: faster CPU,
more RAM, bigger storage. Oh! And more expensive, too.

They can easily make a Windows.old. But the existing
file system consists of the read-only WIM, plus a
persistent file system on top of it. When the new WIM
comes in, the scheme probably has no way to accommodate
a second WIM. Perhaps it will mean setting up two
file systems, which would not then be the same thing
as on a desktop. There could be an entirely
different set of symptoms, when a tablet upgrade
goes nuts. Imagine the mess and the lack of solutions.
Like, what are we going to tell the first tablet
user who comes here, and the upgrade failed, and
the tablet won't boot ? Where would you start ?
(You know they don't have a backup...) While the WIM-boot
is a clever idea, I still haven't heard the story
how it is maintainable.


You can always turn off udates. Had a client who had me turn off
updates on his XP box (SP2) after one screwed up everything. Ran it for
7 years without problems.

Stef

  #15  
Old June 6th 15, 02:13 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
HS[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 95
Default Windows 10


In reviewing the need to upgrade to Windows 10 from 8.1, the question
comes up about the size of the Windows 10 installation on an existing
8.1 install?

Will Windows 10, increase the size of the OS install appreciably.



I have 2 dedicated ssd in my desktop for win 8.1 and win 10

Today I did a full clean install of the latest win 10 evaluation version
10130 and my programs.

The size of the installation is no different than 8.1. It may even
be slightly smaller.

HS

 




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