Microsoft Outlook Express active protection mechanism

On Jan 14, 2:36 pm, BillW50 wrote:
On 1/14/2012 12:13 PM, Greegor wrote:

It looks like a lot of the updates are
for OE security holes and my understanding
is that even if you have present but not
active, it is still vulnerable to some
attacks.

There's also the annoying housekeeping
functions for Outlook Express that
actually RUN even though OE is not installed.
One thing runs on boot and uses a COUNT
in the registry to decide if it needs
to run on this boot, etc...

We have absolutely NO use for OE so
I WISH using add/remove programs really
removed all of the OE crud.

Windows really does instill feelings
that it's a love/hate relationship.

I have been using Windows since '93 and I have never got any malware (ok
tracking cookies and some spyware, but nothing dangerous). And I was a
big fan of MS Mail and News v1 and when OE4 came out, I have used
versions of it ever since. I have used dozens of other newsreaders and
they just don't cut it for me.

And I still use other newsreader too, but OE is still my favorite. And
before XP SP2 I guess you can say there were some serious security
issues (not with me). But all of that is in the past now.

And hey if you don't like OE, just uninstall it through Add/Remove
Windows Components. It's no big deal and that is what it is there for.

Bill, Microsoft's program add/remove does
NOT fully get rid of Outlook Express.

And it even leaves parts of it still RUNNING
like some sort of sorting function that
still slows down bootup of windows.

But the most sickening part of it is that
Microsoft has implemnted something
such that if you delete the unwanted
OE files, it serrupticiously PUTS THEM BACK.

Truly onerous, like the "kill" chips in
ink and toner cartridges that prevent you
from using the last ounce of ink or toner
actually IN the cartridges, but mostly
protect the makers cartridge sales racket.

The nasty business model is well known.

They sell you the printers cheap but then
rip you off on seriously overpriced
ink or toner cartridges.

Did you see where Lexmark actually
had the nerve to use the DMCA to
sue Static Control Components of Sanford NC
for making chips to overcome this racket?

Then NC passed a law aimed directly
at busting up the racket, making it
expressly legal to refill ink and
toner cartridges.

Europe also took some legal action
against this ink/toner racketeering.

I believe in free enterprise, but not
this ink and toner racket!
I would propose harsher laws to attack
the ink/toner racket.

Make it illegal for printer manufacturers
to produce or profit from ink or toner in
the first place. End the conflict of interest.

Create a situation where there are not
so many thousands of different types
of ink/toner cartridges all doing
the exact same thing.

Make ink/toner cartridges a standardized
thing like car tires or flashlight batteries
and end this less than free market racket.

Then the computer printer outfits can
compete based on actual PRINTING technology
rather than wasting so much effort on
devious ways to protect their supplies racket.

And cart refillers can stop wasting resources
overcoming the printer makers protectionism
and place more resources into competing on
price/quality/delivery.

I bet computer printers could get down to
a small assortment of standard cartridges
used by all computer printer makers.

Wouldn't it be nice if there were only
3 types of ink cartridge and 3 types
of laser toner cartridge used by ALL
of the new printer makers, all refillable?

Mandate that all new computer printers
must use ink/toner reservoirs or cartridges
designed to be refillable by users or third parties.

Get the computer printer makers OUT of the ink/toner racket.

Mandate that protectionist "kill chip" technology must go.

The racketeers perverted the notion
of "free market" so they deserve no less.

I'd like to see computer printers made
so that generic ink or toner can just be
dumped into a hopper and get makers out
of the supplies ripoff racket.

Not only is the printer supplies racket
a ripoff, but it is counter to trends
toward recycling. Reduce, REUSE, Recycle.

ANY reverse engineering that breaks
this ink/toner racket should be
expressly LEGAL. Letting printer makers hide
behind the DMCA to protect their supplies
racket is seriously wrong.

Now, Can you guess what my feelings are about
the deliberate efforts Microsoft has made to
prevent me from removing their application
program that I DO NOT USE?

LOL

| But the most sickening part of it is that
| Microsoft has implemnted something
| such that if you delete the unwanted
| OE files, it serrupticiously PUTS THEM BACK.
|

That's System File Protection, later renamed Windows
File Protection. It not only blocks your control without
telling you, but also stores a hidden folder full of backup
files on C drive.

My very elderly father worries that there's a "spy" on
his PC. SFP is one reason. He finds music files (the samples
that come with Windows to sell people on Media Player)
and deletes them. Later he finds they're back. I try to
explain that Windows itself puts back those files, but
he doesn't believe me. That's clearly too preposterous.

SFP can be uninstalled, but it takes PCHealth with it.
They're tied together. So you lose Windows help. On the
other hand, Windows help is nearly useless, so it's not
much loss. (CHM files still work. It's just that the "help
center" is removed.) After uninstalling SFP you can also
delete all the backup files. Then when you delete Media
Player, OE, etc., you'll just see a misleading message
saying that you've replaced files with invalid replacements
and should insert your Windows CD. After cancelling that
it shuts up.

The uninstall is just this single command line run in the
Run window:

rundll32.exe setupapi.dll,InstallHinfSection DefaultUninstall 132
C:\WINDOWS\INF\PCHealth.inf

Watch for wordwrap. There's 1 space before and after '132'.

I don't know for sure that MS hasn't broken the
above command. I've used it before SP3, and SFP
stays gone after SP3. But I don't think I've ever
actually tried this operation on a system with
SP3 already installed. I guess the test would be
if you delete Windows Media Player files and they
don't re-appear in a few seconds.

Once rid of SFP you can delete the useless bloat
of the backup folder. I don't remember the name of
it offhand, but I think it's on the root of C drive.
I've got an empty, hidden folder named System Volume
Information. Maybe that's it.

This all gets even worse with Vista/7. One needs
special measures to get control over system files,
while Microsoft forces you to install the whole
bloated 4 GBs of DVD file to the winsxs folder, so that
they can make Vista/7 appear stable. (Since every
imaginable driver has been dumped into the winsxs
folder, Vista/7 appears to be effortless about
installing new hardware. But all that's really changed
is that the install forces you to store those drivers
without asking your permission, so it doesn't need to
ask for the DVD when you install something new.)
I've experimented with moving or deleting the winsxs
folder, by first overriding the system restrictions
with permissions changes. In one case Windows 7 became
unbootable. In another case I moved winsxs to D drive
and everything was fine....except that there were no
drives in MyComputer.

Mayayana wrote:
| But the most sickening part of it is that
| Microsoft has implemnted something
| such that if you delete the unwanted
| OE files, it serrupticiously PUTS THEM BACK.
|

That's System File Protection, later renamed Windows
File Protection. It not only blocks your control without
telling you, but also stores a hidden folder full of backup
files on C drive.

My very elderly father worries that there's a "spy" on
his PC. SFP is one reason. He finds music files (the samples
that come with Windows to sell people on Media Player)
and deletes them. Later he finds they're back. I try to
explain that Windows itself puts back those files, but
he doesn't believe me. That's clearly too preposterous.

SFP can be uninstalled, but it takes PCHealth with it.
They're tied together. So you lose Windows help. On the
other hand, Windows help is nearly useless, so it's not
much loss. (CHM files still work. It's just that the "help
center" is removed.) After uninstalling SFP you can also
delete all the backup files. Then when you delete Media
Player, OE, etc., you'll just see a misleading message
saying that you've replaced files with invalid replacements
and should insert your Windows CD. After cancelling that
it shuts up.

The uninstall is just this single command line run in the
Run window:

rundll32.exe setupapi.dll,InstallHinfSection DefaultUninstall 132
C:\WINDOWS\INF\PCHealth.inf

Watch for wordwrap. There's 1 space before and after '132'.

I don't know for sure that MS hasn't broken the
above command. I've used it before SP3, and SFP
stays gone after SP3. But I don't think I've ever
actually tried this operation on a system with
SP3 already installed. I guess the test would be
if you delete Windows Media Player files and they
don't re-appear in a few seconds.

Once rid of SFP you can delete the useless bloat
of the backup folder. I don't remember the name of
it offhand, but I think it's on the root of C drive.
I've got an empty, hidden folder named System Volume
Information. Maybe that's it.

This all gets even worse with Vista/7. One needs
special measures to get control over system files,
while Microsoft forces you to install the whole
bloated 4 GBs of DVD file to the winsxs folder, so that
they can make Vista/7 appear stable. (Since every
imaginable driver has been dumped into the winsxs
folder, Vista/7 appears to be effortless about
installing new hardware. But all that's really changed
is that the install forces you to store those drivers
without asking your permission, so it doesn't need to
ask for the DVD when you install something new.)
I've experimented with moving or deleting the winsxs
folder, by first overriding the system restrictions
with permissions changes. In one case Windows 7 became
unbootable. In another case I moved winsxs to D drive
and everything was fine....except that there were no
drives in MyComputer.



Isn't there some other way to do that ?

http://www.bitsum.com/aboutwfp.asp

Paul

On Jan 20, 3:28*pm, Paul wrote:
Mayayana wrote:
| But the most sickening part of it is that
| Microsoft has implemnted something
| such that if you delete the unwanted
| OE files, it serrupticiously PUTS THEM BACK.
|

* That's System File Protection, later renamed Windows
File Protection. It not only blocks your control without
telling you, but also stores a hidden folder full of backup
files on C drive.

* My very elderly father worries that there's a "spy" on
his PC. SFP is one reason. He finds music files (the samples
that come with Windows to sell people on Media Player)
and deletes them. Later he finds they're back. I try to
explain that Windows itself puts back those files, but
he doesn't believe me. That's clearly too preposterous.

Microsoft should never have started using such
functions for keeping windows FUNCTIONAL.
Using it to protect their business interests was downright nasty.

* SFP can be uninstalled, but it takes PCHealth with it.
They're tied together. So you lose Windows help. On the
other hand, Windows help is nearly useless, so it's not
much loss. (CHM files still work. It's just that the "help
center" is removed.) After uninstalling SFP you can also
delete all the backup files. Then when you delete Media
Player, OE, etc., you'll just see a misleading message
saying that you've replaced files with invalid replacements
and should insert your Windows CD. After cancelling that
it shuts up.

*The uninstall is just this single command line run in the
Run window:

rundll32.exe setupapi.dll,InstallHinfSection DefaultUninstall 132
C:\WINDOWS\INF\PCHealth.inf

Watch for wordwrap. There's 1 space before and after '132'.

*I don't know for sure that MS hasn't broken the
above command. I've used it before SP3, and SFP
stays gone after SP3. But I don't think I've ever
actually tried this operation on a system with
SP3 already installed. I guess the test would be
if you delete Windows Media Player files and they
don't re-appear in a few seconds.

* Once rid of SFP you can delete the useless bloat
of the backup folder. I don't remember the name of
it offhand, but I think it's on the root of C drive.
I've got an empty, hidden folder named System Volume
Information. Maybe that's it.

How troublesome is a system with PCHealth and SFP gone?
Does killing those off create any bad side effects?
I have never intentionally used those functions that I KNOW of.
I've used restore points on a few work systems but
never needed a restore point on my own systems.

Does XP quietly use those without my knowledge?

In situations where many folks might use restore points
I rely instead on cloned images of the installed system.
Since I own 5 identical Dell (OEM) computers,
cloned system images work much easier than
when I had a fleet of mixed computers.

This seems vastly better than restore points, to me.

Given this situation, would getting rid of
SPF, PCHealth and restore points hurt me
in some other way?