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Creating personal data/special folders



 
 
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  #61  
Old May 25th 15, 05:25 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,alt.windows7.general
Ken Springer[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,817
Default Creating personal data/special folders

On 5/24/15 3:41 PM, mechanic wrote:
On Sun, 24 May 2015 14:42:07 -0500, Char Jackson wrote:

While I see your reasons for doing that, it's non-standard and is
probably going to confuse a few folks.


Quite, especially if they're working from a Dummies book.


You're assuming they have a Dummies book. G

Given the group of people assisted by the agency I give these systems
to, I work with the assumption they "do not have two nickels to rub
together". Ergo, the only computer documentation they will have to
start out with is mine.


--
Ken
Mac OS X 10.8.5
Firefox 36.0.4
Thunderbird 31.5
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
and it's gone!"
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  #62  
Old May 26th 15, 06:33 AM posted to microsoft.public.windows.vista.general,alt.comp.os.windows-8,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,alt.windows7.general
Char Jackson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,449
Default Creating personal data/special folders

On Mon, 25 May 2015 10:12:36 -0600, Ken Springer
wrote:

On 5/24/15 1:42 PM, Char Jackson wrote:
On Sat, 23 May 2015 08:58:29 -0600, Ken Springer
wrote:

I set up basic accounts because of the malware issues these days, but a
tutorial of why it's done and how to properly use them is supplied with
the computer.

The most radical thing I do is partition the hard drive, and move the
data storage to the new partition. Relocating those personal data files
LOL And the new owners get instructions on never putting files on
C:\. LOL


While I see your reasons for doing that, it's non-standard and is probably
going to confuse a few folks. Personally, I've always just advised people
with whom I come into contact to make backups on a regular basis. With a
good backup strategy, it doesn't matter as much where things are stored.


Guess that's a situation of how you define non-standard. G To me,
formatting/partitioning another Windows partition is not non-standard.
It's not the default, but not non-standard. Non-standard would be
creating Mac or Linux partitions on the drive.


OK, let's call it non-default, if you like that term better than
non-standard. It doesn't change anything. Bless you for doing the task that
you do, but IMHO I don't think 'partitioning and relocating folders' is a
good idea.

Personally, I don't even relocate system folders on my own systems, so I
would not consider doing it to someone else's system. I don't actively use
those folders, preferring to use my own hierarchy, but I leave them right
where Windows puts them. That's standard/default Windows behavior.

I have to work with the assumption the new owners will not have the
resources to purchase an external drive for backups. Well, I don't
*have* to, but I do. And many times, the hard drive is too small to
have the images on the internal drive. In the case of the Vista machine
I'm working with now, the optical drive will only burn CD's.

I also work with the assumption they have no clue what a backup is.

After weighing in all the factors, this leaves me with the choice of
partitions, or asking them to do something they possibly can't afford to
do, even if they have the knowledge. I think partitioning and moving
their docs is the safest approach under these conditions.

I do explain what I've done, and why, in the documentation, and I
encourage them to do backups, *if* they can afford it. It's always
possible someone may give them an external drive, but I don't know that.


I didn't fully understand all of that. Saving backup images on another
partition on the same drive is rarely a good idea, (drive lost means all
partitions lost), so if the premise starts with "drive too small" then I
don't see what's being gained by partitioning and relocating those folders
in another partition on the same drive.

It's up to you, though. Do what you feel is best. It doesn't have to make
sense to me. :-)

  #63  
Old May 26th 15, 07:26 AM posted to microsoft.public.windows.vista.general,alt.comp.os.windows-8,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,alt.windows7.general
Ken Springer[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,817
Default Creating personal data/special folders

On 5/25/15 11:33 PM, Char Jackson wrote:
On Mon, 25 May 2015 10:12:36 -0600, Ken Springer
wrote:

On 5/24/15 1:42 PM, Char Jackson wrote:
On Sat, 23 May 2015 08:58:29 -0600, Ken Springer
wrote:

I set up basic accounts because of the malware issues these days, but a
tutorial of why it's done and how to properly use them is supplied with
the computer.

The most radical thing I do is partition the hard drive, and move the
data storage to the new partition. Relocating those personal data files
LOL And the new owners get instructions on never putting files on
C:\. LOL

While I see your reasons for doing that, it's non-standard and is probably
going to confuse a few folks. Personally, I've always just advised people
with whom I come into contact to make backups on a regular basis. With a
good backup strategy, it doesn't matter as much where things are stored.


Guess that's a situation of how you define non-standard. G To me,
formatting/partitioning another Windows partition is not non-standard.
It's not the default, but not non-standard. Non-standard would be
creating Mac or Linux partitions on the drive.


OK, let's call it non-default, if you like that term better than
non-standard. It doesn't change anything. Bless you for doing the task that
you do, but IMHO I don't think 'partitioning and relocating folders' is a
good idea.

Personally, I don't even relocate system folders on my own systems, so I
would not consider doing it to someone else's system. I don't actively use
those folders, preferring to use my own hierarchy, but I leave them right
where Windows puts them. That's standard/default Windows behavior.


I've never used the folders either, but while working on the Vista
machine, it occurred to me I might save myself some steps in accessing a
particular folder if I can bend the OS to my will. LOL Much like I
have with the Libraries.

FWIW, MS has acknowledged partitioning and relocating the folders can be
a good thing.

I have to work with the assumption the new owners will not have the
resources to purchase an external drive for backups. Well, I don't
*have* to, but I do. And many times, the hard drive is too small to
have the images on the internal drive. In the case of the Vista machine
I'm working with now, the optical drive will only burn CD's.

I also work with the assumption they have no clue what a backup is.

After weighing in all the factors, this leaves me with the choice of
partitions, or asking them to do something they possibly can't afford to
do, even if they have the knowledge. I think partitioning and moving
their docs is the safest approach under these conditions.

I do explain what I've done, and why, in the documentation, and I
encourage them to do backups, *if* they can afford it. It's always
possible someone may give them an external drive, but I don't know that.


I didn't fully understand all of that. Saving backup images on another
partition on the same drive is rarely a good idea, (drive lost means all
partitions lost), so if the premise starts with "drive too small" then I
don't see what's being gained by partitioning and relocating those folders
in another partition on the same drive.


Sorry for the misdirection on the backup images. I never put them on
the same physical hard drive, nor do I recommend it.

It's up to you, though. Do what you feel is best. It doesn't have to make
sense to me. :-)



--
Ken
Mac OS X 10.8.5
Firefox 36.0.4
Thunderbird 31.5
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
and it's gone!"
  #64  
Old May 26th 15, 03:42 PM posted to microsoft.public.windows.vista.general,alt.comp.os.windows-8,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,alt.windows7.general
Ken Blake, MVP[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,699
Default Creating personal data/special folders

On Tue, 26 May 2015 00:26:27 -0600, Ken Springer
wrote:

FWIW, MS has acknowledged partitioning and relocating the folders can be
a good thing.



I'm not Microsoft, but here's my view on having multiple partitions
(this is a article I wrote several years ago, that was on a web-zine
that not longer exists):

Planning Your Partitions

*The Question*

How many partitions should I have on my hard drive, what should I use
each one for, and how big should each of them be?

It’s a common question, but unfortunately one that doesn’t have a
single simple answer, right for everyone. Many people will answer with
the way they do it, but their answer isn’t necessarily best for the
person asking (in many cases it isn’t even right for the person
responding).

*The Terminology*

First, let’s get the terminology right. Some people ask “should I
partition my drive?” That’s the wrong question, because the
terminology is a little strange. Some people think that the verb
“partition” means to divide the drive into two or more partitions.
That’s not correct: to partition a drive is to create one or more
partitions on it. You have to have at least one partition on it to use
it. Those people who think they have an unpartitioned drive actually
have a drive with only a single partition on it, and it’s normally
called C:. The choice you have is whether to have more than one
partition, not whether to partition at all.

*Some History*

Back before Windows 95 OEM Service Release 2 (also known as Windows
95B) was released in 1996, all MS-DOS and Windows hard drives were set
up using the FAT16 file system (except for very tiny ones using
FAT12). Because only 16 bits were used for addressing, FAT16 has a
maximum partition size of 2Gb.

Hard drives larger than 2GB were rare in those days, but if you had
one, you had to have multiple partitions to use all the available
space. But even if your drive was no bigger than 2GB, FAT16 created
another severe problem for many people–the size of the cluster was
bigger if you had a bigger partition. Cluster sizes went from 512
bytes for a partition no bigger than32Mb all the way up to 32Kb for a
partition of 1Gb or greater.

The larger the cluster size, the more space is wasted on a hard drive.
That’s because space for all files is allocated in whole clusters
only. If you have 32Kb clusters, a 1-byte files takes 32Kb, a file one
byte larger than 32Kb takes 64Kb, and so on. On the average, each file
wastes about half of its last cluster.

So large partitions create a lot of waste (called “slack”). With a 2GB
FAT16 drive in a single cluster, if you have 10,000 files, each
wasting half of a 32Kb cluster, you waste about 160Mb to slack. That’s
a substantial portion of a drive that probably cost over $400 back in
1996–around $32 worth.

So what did people do? They partitioned their 2GB drive into two,
three, or more logical drives. Each of those logical drives was
smaller than the real physical drive, had smaller clusters, and
therefore less waste. If, for example, they could keep all partitions
under 512Mb, cluster size was only 8Kb, and the waste was reduced to a
quarter of what it would otherwise be.

People partitioned for other reasons too, but back in the days of
FAT16, this was the main reason for doing so.

*The Present*

Three things have changed dramatically since 1996:

1. The FAT32 and NTFS file systems have come along, permitting larger
partitions with smaller clusters, and therefore much less waste. In
fact, with NTFS, cluster sizes are 4K, regardless of partition size.

2. Hard drives have become much bigger, often over 1Tb (1000Gb) in
size.

3. Hard drives have become much cheaper. For example, a 500Gb drive
can be bought today for around $50. That’s 250 times the size of that
typical 2Gb 1996 drive, at about an eighth of the price.

What those things mean together is that the old rationale of having
multiple partitions to avoid substantial waste of disk space is gone.
The amount of waste is much less than it used to be and the cost of
that waste is much less. For all practical purposes, almost nobody
should be concerned about slack anymore, and it should no longer be
considered when planning your partition structure.

*What Partitions are Used for Today*

There is a wide variety of different ways people set up multiple
partitions these days. Some of these uses are reasonable, some are
questionable, some are outright bad. I’ll discuss a number of common
partition types in what follows:

1. A partition for just Windows

Most people who create such a partition do so because they believe
that if they ever have to reinstall Windows cleanly, at least they
won’t lose their data and won’t have to reinstall their applications,
because both are safe on other partitions.

In fact the first of those thoughts is a false comfort, and the second
is downright wrong. See the discussion of partition types 2 and 4
below to find out why.

Also note that as time passes, many people find that their Windows
partition that started out to be the right size turns out to be too
small. For example, if you have such a Windows partition, and later
upgrade to a newer version of Windows, you may find that your Windows
partition is too small.

2. A partition for installed programs

This normally goes hand-in-hand with partition type 1, a partition for
just Windows. The thought that if you reinstall Windows, your
installed application programs are safe if they are in a separate
partitions is simply wrong. That’s because all installed programs
(except for an occasional trivial one) have pointers to them within
Windows, in the registry and elsewhere, as well as associated files
buried within the Windows folder. So if Windows goes, the pointers and
files go with it. Since programs have to be reinstalled if Windows
does, this rationale for a separate partition for programs doesn't
work. In fact, there is hardly ever a good reason for separating
Windows from application software in separate partitions.

3. A partition for the swap file.

Some people erroneously think that having the page file on a separate
partition will improve performance. That is also false; it doesn’t
help, and often hurts, performance, because it increases head movement
to get back and forth from the page file to the other frequently-used
data on the drive. For best performance, the page file should normally
be on the most-used partition of the least-used physical drive. For
almost everyone with a single physical drive, that’s the same drive
Windows is on, C:.

4. A partition for backup of other partitions.

Some people make a separate partition to store backups of their other
partition(s). People who rely on such a "backup" are just kidding
themselves. It's only very slightly better than no backup at all,
because it leaves you susceptible to simultaneous loss of the original
and backup to many of the most common dangers: head crashes and other
kinds of drive failure, severe power glitches, nearby lightning
strikes, virus attacks, even theft of the computer. In my view,
secure backup needs to be on removable media, and not kept in the
computer.

5. A partition for data files

Above, when I discussed separating Windows on a partition of its own,
I pointed out that separating data from Windows is a false comfort if
it’s done with the thought that the data will be safe if Windows ever
has to be reinstalled. The reason I call it a false comfort is because
I fear that many people will rely on that separation, think that their
data is safe there, and therefore do not take appropriate steps to
back it up. In truth the data is not safe there. Having to reinstall
Windows is only one of the dangers to someone’s hard drive, and not
even the most likely one. This kind of “safeguard” falls into the same
category as a partition for backup of other partitions; it leaves you
susceptible to simultaneous loss of the original and backup to many of
the most common dangers that affect the entire physical drive, not
just the particular partition. Safety comes from a strong backup
regimen, not from how you partition.

However for some people it can be a good idea to separate Windows and
programs on the one hand from data on the other, putting each of the
two types into separate partitions. I think that most people’s
partitioning scheme should be based on their backup scheme, and backup
schemes generally fall into two types: imaging the entire hard drive
or backup of data only. If you backup data only, that backup is
usually facilitated by having a separate partition with data only;
that permits backing up just that partition easily, without having to
collect bits and pieces from here and there. On the other hand, for
those who backup by creating an image of the entire drive, there is
usually little, if any, benefit to separating data in a partition of
its own.

By the way, in all fairness, I should point out that there are many
well-respected people who recommend a separate partition for Windows,
regardless of your backup scheme. Their arguments haven’t convinced
me, but there are clearly two different views here.

6. A partition for picture files

Some people like to treat pictures and videos as something separate
from other data files, and create a separate partition for them. To my
mind, a picture is simply another kind of data, and there is no
advantage in doing this.

7. A partition for music files.

The comments above pertaining to picture files apply equally to music
files. They are just another kind of data and should be treated the
same way as other data.

8. A partition for a second operating system to dual-boot to.

For those who run multiple operating systems (Windows Vista, Windows
XP, Windows 98, Linux, etc.), a separate partition for each operating
system is essential. The issues here are beyond the scope of this
article, but it’s sufficient to note that I have no objection at all
to such partitions

*Performance*

Some people have multiple partitions because they believe that it
somehow improves performance. That’s not correct. The effect is
probably small on modern computers with modern hard drives, but if
anything, the opposite is true: more partitions mean poorer
performance. That’s because normally no partition is full and there
are therefore gaps between them. It takes time for the drive’s
read/write heads to traverse those gaps. The closer together files
are, the faster access to them will be.

*Organization*

I think many people overpartition because they use partitions as an
organizational structure. They have a strong sense of order and want
to separate apples from oranges on their drives.

Yes, separating different kinds of files on partitions is an
organizational technique, but so is separating different kinds of
files in folders. The difference is that partitions are static and
fixed in size, while folders are dynamic, changing size automatically
as necessary to meet your changing needs. That generally makes folders
a much better way to organize, in my view.

True, partitions can be resized when necessary, but except with recent
versions of Windows, doing so requires third-party software (and the
ability to do it in Windows is primitive, compared to the third-party
solutions). Such third-party software normally costs money, and, no
matter how good and how stable it is, affects the entire drive,
entailing a risk of losing everything. Plan your partitions well in
the first place, and no repartitioning should be necessary. The need
to repartition usually comes about as a result of overpartitioning in
the first place.

What frequently happens when people organize with partitions instead
of folders is that they miscalculate how much room they need on each
such partition, and then when they run out of room on the partition
where a file logically belongs, while still having lots of space left
on the other, they simply store the file in the "wrong" partition.
Paradoxically, therefore, that kind of partition structure results in
less organization rather than more.

*So How Should I Partition My Drive*

If you've read what came before, my conclusions won't come as a
surprise:

1. if your backup scheme is to image the entire drive, have just a
single partition (usually C;

2. if you just backup data, have two partitions–one for Windows and
installed application programs (usually C, the other for data
(usually D.

Except for those running multiple operating systems, there is seldom
any benefit to having more than two partitions.
  #65  
Old May 26th 15, 06:00 PM posted to microsoft.public.windows.vista.general,alt.comp.os.windows-8,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,alt.windows7.general
Ken Springer[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,817
Default Creating personal data/special folders

On 5/26/15 8:42 AM, Ken Blake, MVP wrote:
On Tue, 26 May 2015 00:26:27 -0600, Ken Springer
wrote:

FWIW, MS has acknowledged partitioning and relocating the folders can be
a good thing.


snip

We agree on everything I just snipped. I want to shorten this reply, as
I agree with your perspective 99+% of the time. G

1. A partition for just Windows

Most people who create such a partition do so because they believe
that if they ever have to reinstall Windows cleanly, at least they
won’t lose their data and won’t have to reinstall their applications,
because both are safe on other partitions.

In fact the first of those thoughts is a false comfort, and the second
is downright wrong. See the discussion of partition types 2 and 4
below to find out why.

Also note that as time passes, many people find that their Windows
partition that started out to be the right size turns out to be too
small. For example, if you have such a Windows partition, and later
upgrade to a newer version of Windows, you may find that your Windows
partition is too small.


Windows was the 3rd OS I was exposed to, and I discovered this too as I
learned how Windows worked. But not so much from updating to a newer
version of Windows, but because of the existing installation kept
getting larger from MS updates, and program installation.

On these old systems I fix up now and again, I try to leave 25% free
space after everything is installed, including all updates and the
supplied software. The impediment for the 25% is usually the small hard
drive.

snip

Agreed on the snipped text.

4. A partition for backup of other partitions.

Some people make a separate partition to store backups of their other
partition(s). People who rely on such a "backup" are just kidding
themselves. It's only very slightly better than no backup at all,
because it leaves you susceptible to simultaneous loss of the original
and backup to many of the most common dangers: head crashes and other
kinds of drive failure, severe power glitches, nearby lightning
strikes, virus attacks, even theft of the computer. In my view,
secure backup needs to be on removable media, and not kept in the
computer.


This I've never done. Always on a separate physical drive. The minor
difference is, on my Win7/8 machine, I only have one separate drive for
the backups, but it has 2 partitions, one for the Win 7 install, one for
the Win 8 install. It's turning into a special use machine, so there
will not be a lot of data on it.

5. A partition for data files


snip

Agreed on snipped text.

However for some people it can be a good idea to separate Windows and
programs on the one hand from data on the other, putting each of the
two types into separate partitions. I think that most people’s
partitioning scheme should be based on their backup scheme, and backup
schemes generally fall into two types: imaging the entire hard drive
or backup of data only. If you backup data only, that backup is
usually facilitated by having a separate partition with data only;
that permits backing up just that partition easily, without having to
collect bits and pieces from here and there. On the other hand, for
those who backup by creating an image of the entire drive, there is
usually little, if any, benefit to separating data in a partition of
its own.


What about user ignorance? G More on this later.

By the way, in all fairness, I should point out that there are many
well-respected people who recommend a separate partition for Windows,
regardless of your backup scheme. Their arguments haven’t convinced
me, but there are clearly two different views here.


Ignorance can come into play here also.

6. A partition for picture files

Some people like to treat pictures and videos as something separate
from other data files, and create a separate partition for them. To my
mind, a picture is simply another kind of data, and there is no
advantage in doing this.

7. A partition for music files.

The comments above pertaining to picture files apply equally to music
files. They are just another kind of data and should be treated the
same way as other data.


With all the audio and video files you can acquire these days, the
quantity can come into play for some users. More of an organizational
thing, I think, that thinking the data files are somehow different. I
have a brother-in-law who has separate drives for video and audio files.
He's go so many external drives for his data that he really needs an
NAS, but so far no luck in getting him to buy one.

snip

*Performance*

Some people have multiple partitions because they believe that it
somehow improves performance. That’s not correct. The effect is
probably small on modern computers with modern hard drives, but if
anything, the opposite is true: more partitions mean poorer
performance. That’s because normally no partition is full and there
are therefore gaps between them. It takes time for the drive’s
read/write heads to traverse those gaps. The closer together files
are, the faster access to them will be.


This is where I have some disagreement. :-)

For the systems belonging to my friends that I reinstalled the OS and
such on, with one partition for OS and programs, and one for data, they
all said the computer ran faster than when it was new.

Being cynical by nature, I thought they were nuts. But recently I read
a post somewhere about "short stroking" your hard drive. This is one
article you can find on the web:

http://www.pcworld.com/article/25522...o rmance.html

If this article and others are correct, then I think I accidentally
accomplished this on those systems. I also think this would be more
noticeable to the human brain on older and slower equipment.

Thoughts?

*Organization*

I think many people overpartition because they use partitions as an
organizational structure. They have a strong sense of order and want
to separate apples from oranges on their drives.

Yes, separating different kinds of files on partitions is an
organizational technique, but so is separating different kinds of
files in folders. The difference is that partitions are static and
fixed in size, while folders are dynamic, changing size automatically
as necessary to meet your changing needs. That generally makes folders
a much better way to organize, in my view.

True, partitions can be resized when necessary, but except with recent
versions of Windows, doing so requires third-party software (and the
ability to do it in Windows is primitive, compared to the third-party
solutions). Such third-party software normally costs money, and, no
matter how good and how stable it is, affects the entire drive,
entailing a risk of losing everything. Plan your partitions well in
the first place, and no repartitioning should be necessary. The need
to repartition usually comes about as a result of overpartitioning in
the first place.

What frequently happens when people organize with partitions instead
of folders is that they miscalculate how much room they need on each
such partition, and then when they run out of room on the partition
where a file logically belongs, while still having lots of space left
on the other, they simply store the file in the "wrong" partition.
Paradoxically, therefore, that kind of partition structure results in
less organization rather than more.


Other than the rare exception, I use folders. The exceptions would be
files so rarely accessed I simply want them somewhere that I'm not
accessing on any kind of regular basis. An analogy would be a mechanic
who has a group of specialized tools he may have to read the
instructions for each time he uses one. So he puts those tools in a
different drawer in the tool box so he doesn't have dig through them
each time he looks for a tool. So I would put those files on a
different partition that is rarely accessed, and the computer doesn't
have to "dig through" that part of the hard drive to find the more often
used data.

Again, more likely noticeable by the brain on slower equipment.

*So How Should I Partition My Drive*

If you've read what came before, my conclusions won't come as a
surprise:

1. if your backup scheme is to image the entire drive, have just a
single partition (usually C;

2. if you just backup data, have two partitions–one for Windows and
installed application programs (usually C, the other for data
(usually D.

Except for those running multiple operating systems, there is seldom
any benefit to having more than two partitions.


One aspect we haven't discussed is the user. Basically, there's two
types, one who wants to know how the computer works even if just the
very basics, and the one that doesn't.

Your article would more likely be read and taken to heart by the first
type. The ones I bump into are generally the 2nd type, notably two of
my sisters. LOL

With the systems I donate, I assume the new owner is of the 2nd type.
Based on my experiences with those uses, I think partitioning and then
relocating the personal folders may offer some protection for those
users against their own ignorance. I've a friend that actually wrote
data to the restore partition and the Windows Program Files folder.
This was challenge to find and separate/recover/copy all his data before
reinstalling the OS.

Maybe this works for those new owners, maybe not. But, at least I can
say I tried. LOL


--
Ken
Mac OS X 10.8.5
Firefox 36.0.4
Thunderbird 31.5
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
and it's gone!"
  #66  
Old May 26th 15, 06:51 PM posted to microsoft.public.windows.vista.general,alt.comp.os.windows-8,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,alt.windows7.general
Ken Blake, MVP[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,699
Default Creating personal data/special folders

On Tue, 26 May 2015 11:00:14 -0600, Ken Springer
wrote:

On 5/26/15 8:42 AM, Ken Blake, MVP wrote:


Some people have multiple partitions because they believe that it
somehow improves performance. That’s not correct. The effect is
probably small on modern computers with modern hard drives, but if
anything, the opposite is true: more partitions mean poorer
performance. That’s because normally no partition is full and there
are therefore gaps between them. It takes time for the drive’s
read/write heads to traverse those gaps. The closer together files
are, the faster access to them will be.


This is where I have some disagreement. :-)

For the systems belonging to my friends that I reinstalled the OS and
such on, with one partition for OS and programs, and one for data, they
all said the computer ran faster than when it was new.



If the system ran faster after a new Windows installation, there are
many possible reasons why. Whether you are right or I am, do not
assume that the reason why is the partitioning scheme.

  #67  
Old May 26th 15, 07:12 PM posted to microsoft.public.windows.vista.general,alt.comp.os.windows-8,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,alt.windows7.general
Ken Springer[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,817
Default Creating personal data/special folders

On 5/26/15 11:51 AM, Ken Blake, MVP wrote:
On Tue, 26 May 2015 11:00:14 -0600, Ken Springer
wrote:

On 5/26/15 8:42 AM, Ken Blake, MVP wrote:


Some people have multiple partitions because they believe that it
somehow improves performance. That’s not correct. The effect is
probably small on modern computers with modern hard drives, but if
anything, the opposite is true: more partitions mean poorer
performance. That’s because normally no partition is full and there
are therefore gaps between them. It takes time for the drive’s
read/write heads to traverse those gaps. The closer together files
are, the faster access to them will be.


This is where I have some disagreement. :-)

For the systems belonging to my friends that I reinstalled the OS and
such on, with one partition for OS and programs, and one for data, they
all said the computer ran faster than when it was new.



If the system ran faster after a new Windows installation, there are
many possible reasons why. Whether you are right or I am, do not
assume that the reason why is the partitioning scheme.


I know, and I've no way to check it out, either.


--
Ken
Mac OS X 10.8.5
Firefox 36.0.4
Thunderbird 31.5
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
and it's gone!"
  #68  
Old May 26th 15, 11:50 PM posted to microsoft.public.windows.vista.general,alt.comp.os.windows-8,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,alt.windows7.general
. . .winston
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Posts: 1,345
Default Creating personal data/special folders

Ken Blake, MVP wrote:

snipped article

*So How Should I Partition My Drive*

If you've read what came before, my conclusions won't come as a
surprise:

1. if your backup scheme is to image the entire drive, have just a
single partition (usually C;

2. if you just backup data, have two partitions–one for Windows and
installed application programs (usually C, the other for data
(usually D.

Except for those running multiple operating systems, there is seldom
any benefit to having more than two partitions.


I for the most part agree with the article and the 'how should I.." yet
I differ in opinion but only based on the following:

Windows 7 and later user installed or OEM installed by design has more
than one partition (I prefer calling them volumes but for this
discussion I'll stick with the same terminology)
- At the minimum there's a System and Boot Partition in a single disk
sytem.
- OEM's often include other partitions on the single disk (Recovery
partition, Software and/or Drive partition).
- Win 8 and later users and OEM are gradually migrating to GPT instead
of MBR. GPT when done to design intent has 4 partitions.


For desktops with available drive bays my recommendation has always been
to install a second hard disk and create one single primary partition
and divvy it up into folders for personal data (e.g. Documents,
Software, Music, Pictures).

For laptops, create a similar folder structure on the main disk but if
free space is available there is nothing wrong with an additional
partition with a similar data folder structure.

Both approaches creates a behavioral and methodical approach to storing
data external to the o/s.

No matter which approach or type of device (desktop, laptop) it is
obviously necessary to back up the data and the o/s.

Imo, its much easier for folks to understand and execute the need to
backup or image the operating system and backing up (not imaging) the data.

In fact most users (so-called-learned, great unwashed, john doe/mary
janes) will never image their operating system....relying on OEM created
recovery disks or if Windows is clean installed the original Windows
media or Microsoft provided (free) downloadable media for Win7 and
Win8.1. Not always what some of us would do (we'd backup, image
redundantly, run Home Server, try multiple backup software, etc.) but
the majority of us in this forum are not the average user.

Which leaves the primary efforts as noted before to back up their
data..and folks just understand that backing up by copying one or more
folders to external media or even use of included external media
configurable software (e.g. Western Digital Passport tools) is a whole
lot more easy to facilitate.....thus a unique and separate partition
from the operating system's default 'Documents/MyDocuments folders that
deliniated user personal data form the o/s chosen folders may just offer
better understanding on protecting personal data than trying to
understand the ever changing MSFT nomenclature of
C:\Users\usernameDocuments-Music-Pictures-Downloads...add Libraries
and more confusion is introduced.


--
...winston
msft mvp consumer apps

  #69  
Old May 27th 15, 11:23 PM posted to microsoft.public.windows.vista.general,alt.comp.os.windows-8,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,alt.windows7.general
Mike Barnes[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 537
Default Creating personal data/special folders

Char Jackson wrote:
On Fri, 22 May 2015 07:30:44 -0700, "Ken Blake, MVP"
wrote:

On Fri, 22 May 2015 07:30:40 +0100, Mike Barnes
wrote:

Char Jackson wrote:
In the beginning, I remember seeing lots of "balance your checkbook!" and
"organize your recipes!" types of claims. :-)

I don't need a computer to help me with either of those tasks, so I'm glad
that more uses were realized over time.

I've been balancing my accounts using Quicken for probably 25 years,



25 years is about the same for me too.


and
while "need" is slightly too strong a word, I really wouldn't want to be
without it.



Ditto! It makes it *much* easier and faster.


I'm mildly amused. :-) Are we still talking about adding some numbers and
then subtracting that total from another number, or is there more involved?


Yes, more is involved. I match every transaction on the statement (which
stretches over several pages) with my own records. Recent transactions
will be missing from the statement and have to held over for the next
one, and obviously the two balances will differ. In some cases the exact
amounts need some work because my records are in foreign currency and
the statement is in sterling.

And then there are the transactions that my wife forgot to record. :-)

I'm just thinking that by the time you fire up Quicken, you probably could
be done already.


Hardly. Firing up Quicken takes approximately one second.

[I'm principally talking about credit card accounts, not "balancing my
checkbook", if that makes a difference.]

--
Mike Barnes
Cheshire, England
  #70  
Old May 28th 15, 12:39 AM posted to microsoft.public.windows.vista.general,alt.comp.os.windows-8,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,alt.windows7.general
Alek
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 619
Default Creating personal data/special folders

.. . .winston wrote on 5/26/2015 6:50 PM:

I for the most part agree with the article and the 'how should I.." yet
I differ in opinion but only based on the following:

Windows 7 and later user installed or OEM installed by design has more
than one partition (I prefer calling them volumes but for this
discussion I'll stick with the same terminology)
- At the minimum there's a System and Boot Partition in a single disk
sytem.
- OEM's often include other partitions on the single disk (Recovery
partition, Software and/or Drive partition).
- Win 8 and later users and OEM are gradually migrating to GPT instead
of MBR. GPT when done to design intent has 4 partitions.


For desktops with available drive bays my recommendation has always been
to install a second hard disk and create one single primary partition
and divvy it up into folders for personal data (e.g. Documents,
Software, Music, Pictures).


Do you do this by relocating the shell folders of the same names?

I.e., is there a relationship between E:\personal\Documents and
C:\[username]\Documents?
  #71  
Old May 28th 15, 05:15 AM posted to microsoft.public.windows.vista.general,alt.comp.os.windows-8,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,alt.windows7.general
Char Jackson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,449
Default Creating personal data/special folders

On Wed, 27 May 2015 23:23:34 +0100, Mike Barnes
wrote:

Char Jackson wrote:

I'm just thinking that by the time you fire up Quicken, you probably could
be done already.


Hardly. Firing up Quicken takes approximately one second.

[I'm principally talking about credit card accounts, not "balancing my
checkbook", if that makes a difference.]


Makes no difference to me. I balance my bank accounts and my credit card
accounts in near real time.

  #72  
Old May 28th 15, 07:58 AM posted to microsoft.public.windows.vista.general,alt.comp.os.windows-8,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,alt.windows7.general
Mike Barnes[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 537
Default Creating personal data/special folders

Char Jackson wrote:
On Wed, 27 May 2015 23:23:34 +0100, Mike Barnes
wrote:

Char Jackson wrote:

I'm just thinking that by the time you fire up Quicken, you probably could
be done already.


Hardly. Firing up Quicken takes approximately one second.

[I'm principally talking about credit card accounts, not "balancing my
checkbook", if that makes a difference.]


Makes no difference to me. I balance my bank accounts and my credit card
accounts in near real time.


What does "in near real time" mean?

BTW I suspect that what you mean by "balance" isn't what I'm talking about.

--
Mike Barnes
Cheshire, England
  #73  
Old May 28th 15, 01:17 PM posted to microsoft.public.windows.vista.general,alt.comp.os.windows-8,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,alt.windows7.general
Mayayana
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,438
Default Creating personal data/special folders

| I'm mildly amused. :-) Are we still talking about adding some numbers
and
| then subtracting that total from another number, or is there more
involved?
|
| Yes, more is involved. I match every transaction on the statement (which
| stretches over several pages) with my own records. Recent transactions
| will be missing from the statement and have to held over for the next
| one, and obviously the two balances will differ.

I do that as well. I have a slip of paper in a draw.
When it gets full I tape a new piece at the bottom.
After making charge purchases, I fire up my trusty
penta-digit computer, feed it a ball point pen, and
write down the price, store and purpose of for the
item. I daresay that firing up the penta-digit also takes
about 1 second, from start to having pen in hand.

My list doubles for my business purchases,
so I like to record customer names under the "purpose"
column in that case. The nice thing about my
penta-digit is that it can easily handle multi-defined
columns and creative notes in margins, which most
database-type tools choke on.

When I get my credit card bill I then fire up the
old penta-digit once again. It write a small check mark
next to each item that matches the purchase list.
Brilliant, don't you think? Best of all, aside from providing
3 meals a day (which I'd eat anyway) my penta-digit
only requires a pen from Staples once every few years.
So it's nearly cost-free and never requires buying
"upgrades".

I do use one "non-organic" machine for my extensive
recordkeeing, however. It's a solar powered, Texas
Instruments calculator that I bought at CVS drugstore
in May of 1985, for $10. I remember the date because
I bought it for my then-new business. To this day I
still don't use a computer for my business, except for
graphics and printing: receipts, business cards, images
of design ideas sent to customers via email, etc. My
business records and receipts are mainly on paper. If
I send a bill it's a PDF created in Libre Office. If I give
people a bill on the job I do it using a sheet of carbon
paper, so that we both have a copy. (I've also had the
same pack of carbon paper for years. Just because new
technology is available that doesn't necessarily mean it's
better.)


  #74  
Old May 28th 15, 01:21 PM posted to microsoft.public.windows.vista.general,alt.comp.os.windows-8,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,alt.windows7.general
Ken Springer[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,817
Default Creating personal data/special folders

On 5/28/15 6:17 AM, Mayayana wrote:
| I'm mildly amused. :-) Are we still talking about adding some numbers
and
| then subtracting that total from another number, or is there more
involved?
|
| Yes, more is involved. I match every transaction on the statement (which
| stretches over several pages) with my own records. Recent transactions
| will be missing from the statement and have to held over for the next
| one, and obviously the two balances will differ.

I do that as well. I have a slip of paper in a draw.
When it gets full I tape a new piece at the bottom.
After making charge purchases, I fire up my trusty
penta-digit computer, feed it a ball point pen, and
write down the price, store and purpose of for the
item. I daresay that firing up the penta-digit also takes
about 1 second, from start to having pen in hand.

My list doubles for my business purchases,
so I like to record customer names under the "purpose"
column in that case. The nice thing about my
penta-digit is that it can easily handle multi-defined
columns and creative notes in margins, which most
database-type tools choke on.

When I get my credit card bill I then fire up the
old penta-digit once again. It write a small check mark
next to each item that matches the purchase list.
Brilliant, don't you think? Best of all, aside from providing
3 meals a day (which I'd eat anyway) my penta-digit
only requires a pen from Staples once every few years.
So it's nearly cost-free and never requires buying
"upgrades".

I do use one "non-organic" machine for my extensive
recordkeeing, however. It's a solar powered, Texas
Instruments calculator that I bought at CVS drugstore
in May of 1985, for $10. I remember the date because
I bought it for my then-new business. To this day I
still don't use a computer for my business, except for
graphics and printing: receipts, business cards, images
of design ideas sent to customers via email, etc. My
business records and receipts are mainly on paper. If
I send a bill it's a PDF created in Libre Office. If I give
people a bill on the job I do it using a sheet of carbon
paper, so that we both have a copy. (I've also had the
same pack of carbon paper for years. Just because new
technology is available that doesn't necessarily mean it's
better.)


+1 on the last sentence. G


--
Ken
Mac OS X 10.8.5
Firefox 36.0.4
Thunderbird 31.5
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
and it's gone!"
  #75  
Old May 28th 15, 06:33 PM posted to microsoft.public.windows.vista.general,alt.comp.os.windows-8,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,alt.windows7.general
Ken Blake, MVP[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,699
Default Creating personal data/special folders

On Thu, 28 May 2015 06:21:36 -0600, Ken Springer
wrote:

On 5/28/15 6:17 AM, Mayayana wrote:


Just because new
technology is available that doesn't necessarily mean it's
better.)


+1 on the last sentence. G



I also agree. However, as far as I'm concerned, new technology is
better than older technology the great majority of the time.

 




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