Virtual machine

On 05/25/2015 06:36 PM, Char Jackson wrote:
On Mon, 25 May 2015 14:55:27 -0500, philo wrote:

I've tried cross-posting a few times and apparently Thunderbird prevents it.

Google seems to indicate that Thunderbird crossposts just fine. As Ken Blake
pointed out, be sure that all of the target groups are carried by the same
server, because while Thunderbird knows how to cross post, it doesn't allow
posting to multiple servers at the same time.

I'm curious to see if your experience is any different.





Next time I try such a post I'll better pay attention to all the details

.. . .winston wrote:

Carpe Diem wrote:
The old laptop of my son worked with Windows 7.
He had a 16-bit program that worked fine in W7, but it does NOT work in
his new laptop with Windows 8.1 !
Is there a free 'virtual machine' than can do the trick?
Thanks for an answer!
Sorry for the multipost, but my newsgroupserver (?) does not support
cross-posting.
You should be able to run some 16-bit apps in a virtual machine on
Windows 8.1 if the parent o/s is 32 bit. The majority of new laptops are
usually 64 bit o/s which will only support running 32 or 64 applications
in a VM.

The host OS running the VMM (virtual machine manager) is not what
restricts the bitwidth of the apps running in a virtual machine. The
guest OS in the virtual machine determines the bitwidth restrictions.
If the host OS is 64-bit but the guest OS is 32-bit then 16- and 32-bit
apps can run under the guest OS.

Multiple options are available for VM's on Win8 provided the hardware
(BIOS level) supports a VM.
- Hyper V (Microsoft, requires Windows 8.1 Pro, 64bit with SLAT)

As with many products, Microsoft adores name confusion. There is the
HyperV supervisor included in Win8 but there is also the HyperV that is
its own own OS (the host OS) which is actually a limited version of
Windows 2008 or 2012 Server and is the VMM aka hypervisor; see:

https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/.../hh923062.aspx
https://technet.microsoft.com/library/hh831531.aspx
http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/serve...alization.aspx

While HyperV was a limited Windows Server, you didn't use the host OS as
a server OS other than to run VMs on it. I never used it but the
limitations are probably to orient the product as a hypervisor OS
instead of operating as a Windows server. You then load other OSes,
whatever bitwidth, in virtual machines under control of the VMM. This
is very similar to how IBM's VM OS worked (many years before Microsoft
latched onto virtualization): VM was the host OS and you installed other
OSes in VMs that ran under it. IBM's VM OS came out sometime in 1972;
see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VM_(operating_system).

The HyperV (as its own OS which was Windows 2008/2012 Server) was free
for non-commercial use. I haven't kept up with it for a couple years so
I don't know if that is still the case. The following indicates HyperV
is still free:

http://blogs.technet.com/b/mstechsa/...-for-free.aspx

You still need to buy the licenses for any Windows you run inside the
VMs but the hypervisor aka VMM is free.

VanguardLH wrote:
. . .winston wrote:

Carpe Diem wrote:
The old laptop of my son worked with Windows 7.
He had a 16-bit program that worked fine in W7, but it does NOT work in
his new laptop with Windows 8.1 !
Is there a free 'virtual machine' than can do the trick?
Thanks for an answer!
Sorry for the multipost, but my newsgroupserver (?) does not support
cross-posting.
You should be able to run some 16-bit apps in a virtual machine on
Windows 8.1 if the parent o/s is 32 bit. The majority of new laptops are
usually 64 bit o/s which will only support running 32 or 64 applications
in a VM.

The host OS running the VMM (virtual machine manager) is not what
restricts the bitwidth of the apps running in a virtual machine. The
guest OS in the virtual machine determines the bitwidth restrictions.
If the host OS is 64-bit but the guest OS is 32-bit then 16- and 32-bit
apps can run under the guest OS.

Multiple options are available for VM's on Win8 provided the hardware
(BIOS level) supports a VM.
- Hyper V (Microsoft, requires Windows 8.1 Pro, 64bit with SLAT)

As with many products, Microsoft adores name confusion. There is the
HyperV supervisor included in Win8 but there is also the HyperV that is
its own own OS (the host OS) which is actually a limited version of
Windows 2008 or 2012 Server and is the VMM aka hypervisor; see:

https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/.../hh923062.aspx
https://technet.microsoft.com/library/hh831531.aspx
http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/serve...alization.aspx

While HyperV was a limited Windows Server, you didn't use the host OS as
a server OS other than to run VMs on it. I never used it but the
limitations are probably to orient the product as a hypervisor OS
instead of operating as a Windows server. You then load other OSes,
whatever bitwidth, in virtual machines under control of the VMM. This
is very similar to how IBM's VM OS worked (many years before Microsoft
latched onto virtualization): VM was the host OS and you installed other
OSes in VMs that ran under it. IBM's VM OS came out sometime in 1972;
see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VM_(operating_system).

The HyperV (as its own OS which was Windows 2008/2012 Server) was free
for non-commercial use. I haven't kept up with it for a couple years so
I don't know if that is still the case. The following indicates HyperV
is still free:

http://blogs.technet.com/b/mstechsa/...-for-free.aspx

You still need to buy the licenses for any Windows you run inside the
VMs but the hypervisor aka VMM is free.


Thanks for the clarification and added info.

Your experience with VM's is much better than mine.

--
...winston
msft mvp consumer apps

Paul wrote:
. . .winston wrote:


Multiple options are available for VM's on Win8 provided the hardware
(BIOS level) supports a VM.
- Hyper V (Microsoft, requires Windows 8.1 Pro, 64bit with SLAT)
- Virtual PC (Microsoft)
- Virtual Box (3rd party)
- VMWare (3rd party)

I suspect Virtual PC won't install (not in Windows 8).
I think I tried that.
Neither will VPC2007 install in there.

From the Microsoft point of view, Hyper-V is their own
Microsoft-branded solution, and they don't want you running
anything else from previous OS eras. I tried to get Hyper-V
running on this PC, and since I had no SLAT, it silently failed,
and took me a while to figure out. Now that my test machine
has SLAT, I've never bothered to install Hyper-V. I came to
the realization, that if I install Hyper-V, if that computer
motherboard fails, all my virtual machines would be worthless.

Whereas VirtualBox and VMWare, run on anything and
don't pick favorites. I have at least three computers
that can run those. If a machine died, I could move the
VM pool.

Hardware support for virtual machines, includes Intel VT-X and
AMD Pacifica. But of the software I've used, some actually
has the option to turn the support of those ON or OFF,
independent of the BIOS setting. So some trapping of privileged
instructions, can be handled in software, with an ever-so-slight
speed penalty. When using x86-on-x86 machines now, I expect
to see a 90% performance level, meaning for computing, there
is hardly any penalty. Whereas for I/O operations, there is a
tremendous penalty. For example, some VMs cannot send network
packets faster than 1.5MB/sec, even if there is GbE NICs
on the box. All the packets are "shoveled in software",
leading to a huge slowdown. Whereas the actual computing function,
isn't all that bad. I can run SuperPI in a VM, and
see relatively good results.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X86_virtualization

Paul

Good info, thanks.

--
...winston
msft mvp consumer apps

Ken Blake, MVP schreef op 25/05/2015 om 22:14:

And it's hard to imagine that his translation might be wrong and the
Dutch word "nieuwsserver" means "newsgroup" rather than "newsserver."

"nieuwsserver" means definitly, absolutely "newsserver" ;-))

--
Carpe Diem
"Make things as simple as possible,
but not simpler" (Albert Einstein).

On Mon, 25 May 2015 10:18:00 -0700, Ken Blake, MVP wrote:

You're using Eternal-september and aioe, both of which support
crossposting.

Up to a point.

Paul schreef op 25/05/2015 om 23:54:

And I know the fix, because I downloaded the source
code for Thunderbird and figured it out :-)


Thanks for your reaction!


--
Carpe Diem
"Make things as simple as possible,
but not simpler" (Albert Einstein).

On Tue, 26 May 2015 11:49:46 +0200, Carpe Diem
wrote:

Ken Blake, MVP schreef op 25/05/2015 om 22:14:

And it's hard to imagine that his translation might be wrong and the
Dutch word "nieuwsserver" means "newsgroup" rather than "newsserver."

"nieuwsserver" means definitly, absolutely "newsserver" ;-))



I know no Dutch, but I was 99% sure of that g.

mechanic wrote:

Ken Blake wrote:

You're using Eternal-september and aioe, both of which support
crossposting.

Up to a point.

Cross-posting means having just 1 article to which pointers are added at
the server in multiple newsgroups to point at the 1 article.

There is no cross-posting to multiple servers. Each article gets its
own unique number in the articles database at the server so there would
be no way to have multiple pointers all pointing to 1 article as there
would be multiple articles across servers and each with a different
article number. Across servers, you can only multi-post to each the
same article content (but not the same article).

There would probably be a Message-ID collision. One client that creates
the MID header would be posting the same article as separate copies to
each server. Each separate article would try to have the same MID. Yet
when the article got peered across the servers, there would be a MID
conflict when the article with the same MID hit the other server. The
server would have to change the MID in the peered copy of the article.
Can't have 2 articles on the same server with the same MID.

.. . .winston wrote:

VanguardLH wrote:
. . .winston wrote:

Carpe Diem wrote:
The old laptop of my son worked with Windows 7.
He had a 16-bit program that worked fine in W7, but it does NOT work in
his new laptop with Windows 8.1 !
Is there a free 'virtual machine' than can do the trick?
Thanks for an answer!
Sorry for the multipost, but my newsgroupserver (?) does not support
cross-posting.
You should be able to run some 16-bit apps in a virtual machine on
Windows 8.1 if the parent o/s is 32 bit. The majority of new laptops are
usually 64 bit o/s which will only support running 32 or 64 applications
in a VM.

The host OS running the VMM (virtual machine manager) is not what
restricts the bitwidth of the apps running in a virtual machine. The
guest OS in the virtual machine determines the bitwidth restrictions.
If the host OS is 64-bit but the guest OS is 32-bit then 16- and 32-bit
apps can run under the guest OS.

Multiple options are available for VM's on Win8 provided the hardware
(BIOS level) supports a VM.
- Hyper V (Microsoft, requires Windows 8.1 Pro, 64bit with SLAT)

As with many products, Microsoft adores name confusion. There is the
HyperV supervisor included in Win8 but there is also the HyperV that is
its own own OS (the host OS) which is actually a limited version of
Windows 2008 or 2012 Server and is the VMM aka hypervisor; see:

https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/.../hh923062.aspx
https://technet.microsoft.com/library/hh831531.aspx
http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/serve...alization.aspx

While HyperV was a limited Windows Server, you didn't use the host OS as
a server OS other than to run VMs on it. I never used it but the
limitations are probably to orient the product as a hypervisor OS
instead of operating as a Windows server. You then load other OSes,
whatever bitwidth, in virtual machines under control of the VMM. This
is very similar to how IBM's VM OS worked (many years before Microsoft
latched onto virtualization): VM was the host OS and you installed other
OSes in VMs that ran under it. IBM's VM OS came out sometime in 1972;
see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VM_(operating_system).

The HyperV (as its own OS which was Windows 2008/2012 Server) was free
for non-commercial use. I haven't kept up with it for a couple years so
I don't know if that is still the case. The following indicates HyperV
is still free:

http://blogs.technet.com/b/mstechsa/...-for-free.aspx

You still need to buy the licenses for any Windows you run inside the
VMs but the hypervisor aka VMM is free.


Thanks for the clarification and added info.

Your experience with VM's is much better than mine.

I used to use VMs as security environs. Better than sandboxing. I
eventually gave up having to maintain the guest OSes (e.g., updates) in
the VMs. I also used Returnil System Safe which would virtualize only
the disk I/O and discard the virtual drive on a reboot to wipe any
possible bad changes made by trialing software or web surfing; however,
Returnil abandoned that product despite claiming there was going to be a
new version and eventually announced they were rewriting the whole thing
to produce a different product (QuietZone) which has no free version
(i.e., they went all commercialware). No thanks. Sandboxie is once-a-
month nagware so no to that, too. I'd rather have it adware like other
products that put a section in their config GUI to advertize their
payware version (e.g., Avast Free, FormatFactory). Now I rely on
restores from my daily image backup (full once per month, differentials
once per week, incrementals daily). If something ****s up my setup,
just do a restore from backups. I may lose a bit more from any daily
changes but I grew tired of maintaining or using the other methods.