A Windows XP help forum. PCbanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » PCbanter forum » Microsoft Windows XP » General XP issues or comments
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

O.T. HD, PSU review:



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #46  
Old December 13th 18, 05:50 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,873
Default O.T. HD, PSU review:

Mark Twain wrote:
Now that we've selected the PSU,
I was thinking about getting
another APC Surge Arrest like
the one I currently have, just
in case it goes out.

https://www.apc.com/shop/us/en/produ...-outlet/P-PRO8

What do you think?

I do get an abnormal amount of outages
here. When it rains or its windy the
power lines go out.

As I said, my outside box is fine now;
Although as added protection I have (3)
heavy plastic bags over it to keep it dry
but it's the power lines or transformers
or whatever that go out. Last time, I had
4 outages in a row.

I wish I had the $$$$ to go solar,. I live
in the desert so it would be perfect.

Thoughts/Suggestions?
Robert



That's a pretty low price for a surge arrestor.

A Tripplite ISOBar is, like $70-$80.

On the APC, there is some grumbling about the
button for turning on the outlets. I can't tell
if that is a switch or a breaker.

Some bars have included a breaker, to limit the
load to 15 amps. The Tripplite might have used
a regular on-off switch. I can't tell exactly
what the APC one uses, but if the button is known
to not be reliable, you can just leave it switched
on all the time.

This one has a breaker, because the switch says "Reset" on it.

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...82E16812120523

Same with this one, breaker as well. Cord only six feet.

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...82E16812120524

There are mounting holes on the back. If you put some
screws into a wall, the bar can hook onto the screws.
The one I installed, I bolted it to the side of a
computer desk, to make it easier to get at the plugs
and cords.

The breaker button on this Tripplite is on the side,
and the switch is just a switch. I think this concept
is similar to the one I got more than ten years ago.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Tripp-Li...LTRA/203139330

There is also a version to protect dialup modems,
but not many people use dialup POTS modems any more.

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon....mL._SX425_.jpg

Paul
Ads
  #47  
Old December 13th 18, 05:57 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,873
Default O.T. HD, PSU review:

Mark Twain wrote:
I went to help and click About Firefox to
see which version I had and this popped up:

http://i67.tinypic.com/xckjtf.jpg

So restarted the computer

http://i64.tinypic.com/2akfi8y.jpg

http://i64.tinypic.com/2hxou8p.jpg

Robert



I wonder what it was whining about then ?

Looks to me like the normal update mechanism
worked normally for you.

And you did end up on 64.0 and everything.
Which is the correct release, based on
looking at the "releases" list.

Paul
  #48  
Old December 13th 18, 11:40 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Mark Twain
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,402
Default O.T. HD, PSU review:

The breaker/reset button is hidden on the
right lower side but you can see the light
for it (near the cord).

So I'll go with the same, it's been reliable
and as you say cheap.

Thanks,
Robert
  #49  
Old December 13th 18, 12:02 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Mark Twain
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,402
Default O.T. HD, PSU review:

I just checked the PSU again and saw it had a switch
whereas the back plates for the 8500 and 780 are both
different. On the 8500 the plug comes out on the left

http://i63.tinypic.com/347jogk.jpg

On the 780 it comes out on the right and neither have
switches. Now what?

http://i63.tinypic.com/4ij3ao.jpg

Robert

  #50  
Old December 13th 18, 12:03 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Mark Twain
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,402
Default O.T. HD, PSU review:

See what I mean about strange things
popping up and happening,...


Robert
  #51  
Old December 13th 18, 01:15 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,873
Default O.T. HD, PSU review:

Mark Twain wrote:
I just checked the PSU again and saw it had a switch
whereas the back plates for the 8500 and 780 are both
different. On the 8500 the plug comes out on the left

http://i63.tinypic.com/347jogk.jpg

On the 780 it comes out on the right and neither have
switches. Now what?

http://i63.tinypic.com/4ij3ao.jpg

Robert


It's OK for a PC without switches on the back, to receive
an ATX supply with a switch on it.

You examine the border area around the faceplate, and
see if any of the metal detail on the computer case, conflicts
with a feature on the new PSU. To me, it looks like the
screws on the faceplate area, are in the standard locations.

For the picture of the 780, it was hard to see the screws
against the black finish, but I think they're all in the
standard locations.

The 780 power supply appears to have a self-test button,
as well as a green LED to indicate the test was successful.
I don't see the word "TEST" on the button at all, but I'm
guessing that's what it is for.

Your old supplies are auto-switching (110/220V). If the new
supply has one of those red sliders on the back for voltage,
then that's not a problem as long as it is set correctly
for the expected voltage.

The only other issue with Dells, is the non-standard wiring on
a couple years of much older machines. I think we checked for
that on a previous occasion.

I think you're still in good shape, and just run your
eyeball over the border area framework and make sure there
aren't any metalwork conflicts. I don't know if the
standards, such as they are, allow all those metai "detailings"
around the edges like that. The case makers take a lot of
chances with their messing about.

Paul
  #52  
Old December 13th 18, 07:23 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Mark Twain
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,402
Default O.T. HD, PSU review:

I lightened the picture of the 780:

http://i67.tinypic.com/9ieqhl.jpg

I don't notice anything else on the
780 besides those flanges, The 8500
also has flanges but they aren't
uniform, however the screw pattern
are the same.

http://i63.tinypic.com/347jogk.jpg


So if it has a slider set it to 110V?
and should I leave the power switched
on or do I have to switch it on/off each
time?

Thanks,
Robert
  #53  
Old December 13th 18, 07:27 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Mark Twain
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,402
Default O.T. HD, PSU review:

I checked with our chosen PSU and
the screw pattern is the same.


Robert

  #54  
Old December 13th 18, 09:43 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,873
Default O.T. HD, PSU review:

Mark Twain wrote:
I lightened the picture of the 780:

http://i67.tinypic.com/9ieqhl.jpg

I don't notice anything else on the
780 besides those flanges, The 8500
also has flanges but they aren't
uniform, however the screw pattern
are the same.

http://i63.tinypic.com/347jogk.jpg


So if it has a slider set it to 110V?
and should I leave the power switched
on or do I have to switch it on/off each
time?

Thanks,
Robert


When an ATX PSU has the switch on the back,
you leave it at "1" or "ON".

When a supply is "ON" at the back, the +5VSB
rail is always powered. On my newer machine, this
wastes 1.3W of electricity.

If the machine is "ON" at the back and sleeping
(RAM contents preserved, no fans running), that
uses 7.5W of electricity.

The power button on the front of the computer
is the "soft" power button. It causes the PSU
to go to the full power state, so both halves
of the PSU run.

When you select shutdown in Windows, that turns
off the big half of the supply, but leaves
the +5VSB running. And a shutdown uses 1.3W,
whereas a selection of Sleep (wakes up fast)
is 7.5W.

The amount of Sleep power, is a function of the
amount of memory. My typing machine uses 5W
while sleeping, the test machine uses 7.5W.

Some older supplies were less efficient. They
wasted enough power, that when you woke them
from sleep, a puff of warm air would initially
come out of the PSU housing. And that's proof
that the +5VSB heatsink was pretty hot inside.
While it was sleeping.

The supplies I have now, don't have a thermal
signature at startup, so less power is wasted.
And the measurement shows the magnitude of
power involved.

You use the switch at the back, if and when you
want the consumption to be exactly 0.0 watts.
You do shutdown first (drops to 1.3W), then
go to the back of the machine and switch it off
to 0.0W loading.

Your machines without the switch, would always
have the +5VSB running. With power loads depending
on what they're doing, like in the examples above.

Paul
  #55  
Old December 13th 18, 10:05 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Mark Twain
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,402
Default O.T. HD, PSU review:

Understood,..in passing I used the
sleep mode only once and didn't like
it, although no puff of smoke. I'll
leave it switched on.

The switch in the back is like my (2)external
Startech HD's cases and have another I use
for cloning HD's.

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...82E16817707227

Robert
  #56  
Old December 14th 18, 07:10 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Mark Twain
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,402
Default O.T. HD, PSU review:

Just purchased the (2) PSU's with your
good help and advice. I'm glad I thought
to ask a second time about the choices
we made.

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...82E16817151203

Also purchased another Surge Arrest.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/APC-SurgeAr...53.m2749.l2649

The red indicator (1) detects dangerous
wiring problems,..(click the second image
for details) and mine is red all the time,
but I've never had any problems with it?

So how would I ground it?

Thanks,
Robert



  #57  
Old December 14th 18, 11:02 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,873
Default O.T. HD, PSU review:

Mark Twain wrote:
Just purchased the (2) PSU's with your
good help and advice. I'm glad I thought
to ask a second time about the choices
we made.

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...82E16817151203

Also purchased another Surge Arrest.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/APC-SurgeAr...53.m2749.l2649

The red indicator (1) detects dangerous
wiring problems,..(click the second image
for details) and mine is red all the time,
but I've never had any problems with it?

So how would I ground it?

Thanks,
Robert


"how would I ground it"

Good question.

I was not able to find a manual that positively
verifies the functions of the indicators. I can see
a red light on the unit, but no pictures give me the
text under the red indicator.

What I did find is this, a text line which tells me
"Modem/FAX/DSL" capability for the RJ11 passthru telco arrestor.
I was initially concerned the RJ11 was only for 8KHz or
lower analog phone service (i.e. to be placed after the
inline filter and only feeding the phone).

https://www.schneider-electric.ca/en...pdf/PRO8T2_APC

But there's no words concerning the function of the unit
at all. I can't tell if that "button" on the front is
a 15 amp breaker, or a simple power switch. A couple of
the outlets are "always on", so perhaps those aren't tied
into any breaker function.

*******

First, we can try a "symptoms" test.

Do you get a shock from either PC while touching the
chassis and handling a cold water line in the house ?

Lots of modern equipment, relies on North American
"three prong plug". The third prong is safety ground, and
is intended (by tying Safety Ground to machine chassis) to
divert line potential if "Hot" on the 120V touches the
chassis internally. That was the original intent.

Now, modern equipment makes electrical noise, and to meet
FCC Part 15 on conducted emissions, it's popular to put
a filter on the front end. This can be seen in the pavouk
reference page.

http://www.pavouk.org/hw/en_atxps.html

Capacitor C2 and C3 are part of a low pass filter. AC is
across those caps. The caps "conduct" AC, so a tiny current
flows. The magnitude of current, can be uncomfortable to touch,
but is not intended to be fatal.

Notice how L and N go, via caps C2 and C3, to the Safety Ground prong
(aka Shield). The couple milliamps of AC current want to flow into
Safety Ground.

If you have wiring in the house up to code, you have three
prong outlets. The third prong, is tied to a ground item
near the panel. The electrician ensures whatever the local
code uses for ground, is tied into the panel. In some cases
this uses a ground rod. In certain soil types, soil conductivity
is poor, and something more substantial than a single rod is
required.

Two-prong outlets are grandfathered. If your house is old enough
to not have three-prong plugs, you don't have to rip out the wiring
and re-do. You can keep your stinking two-prong plugs. But, it
means you will always be getting shocks off your metallic
desktop PC chassis.

Some houses tie the Safety Ground to the cold water pipe,
on the *street side*. You may see a short, fat, jumper conductor,
between street side and house side on the water meter. Due to the
usage of plastic high pressure water pipes in modern premises,
it's a dangerous assumption to just grab any old tap and
assume it's grounded. Only your local code can tell you
whether this practice of street side cold water grounding
is legal or not. Or would run afoul of your house fire insurance.

OK, so say somebody cuts the Safety Ground path at the entry
point in your house. Now, the Safety Ground floats. Capacitor
C2 and C3 pump their milliamps into the Safety Ground. The
*chassis* of the PC becomes hot. If you touch it, you get a
shock. The level of shock is a function of hand dampness, and
also how good of a ground you touched with your other hand.

Do you regularly receive AC 60Hz tingling from either PC ?

If you don't, then it suggests some kind of ground path
is present.

But the original purpose of Safety Ground was not for 2mA
AC discharges. It was intended to sink 50A until the breaker
in the panel opens. The ground has to be that good, in the
event of a Hot shorting to Chassis.

For your *surge protector* to work, it needs the 50A
quality ground. It can't have a shabby ground and work.
A surge could also place a 50A current into Safety Ground.
A surge isn't 2 milliamps when clamped.

The indicator light on the surge protector, works at the
2mA level. It has no way of determining whether a true
low-impedance ground is present.

If the Safety ground is not present, and all that is
present is Line and Neutral, then you don't have surge
protection.

L--SP--N === Only Line to Neutral is clamped
\ / to 200VAC, when the premises
SP SP don't have a Safety Ground.
\ /
Safety
Ground

Just like the C2 and C3 capacitors in each ATX power supple,
the SurgeProtection items discharge into Ground. In the event
that a high voltage transient (200V) should appear on L with
respect to SafetyGround, a large current flows through the
SP on that leg and into SafetyGround. If no SafetyGround
is present, the bottom two legs offer no protection.
(Maybe Line conducts to Neutral, through the two SP.)

AFAIK, that's how full protection works. Neutral could break
loose and be lifted above Safety Ground, and that would test
the HiPot on devices on that AC circuit. Whether L to Safety
Ground or L to N is too high (200V), that too would be testing
the integrity of the electrolytic cap in each ATX PSU. Too
high of a potential applied will cause the electrolytic
to explode, and the number of joules in there is substantial
(lose an eardrum).

If you're not getting 60Hz shocks off the chassis, you
have "some" grounding. But only an electrician, doing
an inspection and tracing that the panel ground runs to
a proper code ground, tells you whether you're ready for
the Surge Protector to actually protect you. In places
like Florida, the soil conditions may require some
sort of active test, to verify the house ground is
still good. In some places, they recommend, say,
dampening the ground near the ground solution, in
hot dry weather, so the dirt stays moist. It's a pretty
pathetic grounding solution, that relies on your
constant usage of a garden hose... The quality of ground
varies across the continent, with some places making
just a small long rod sufficient for this purpose.
Others might require a whole bunch of rods or something.

Paul
  #58  
Old December 15th 18, 05:51 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Mark Twain
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,402
Default O.T. HD, PSU review:

The second picture in the link(the back of the box)
identifies the function of the indicators by numbers:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/APC-SurgeAr...53.m2749.l2649

I don't get any shocks of any kind; also when
I had the Klimaire mini-split system installed
they checked the power panels and the outside
box because they had to tie into it. So wouldn't
they have noticed if it wasn't ground? Since
they tested the 220V with meters etc.

It's a single mobile home by the way, if that makes a
difference in code etc. and live in the desert
near Palm Springs on the other side of the mountain.

Also I had (4) different contractors come out
and give me estimates and they all saw the panels
and the outside box as well and no one said anything
about grounding.

Here's my current APC Surge Arrest; It doesn't have
a switch per se but a reset button that doesn't seem
to work because I've tried it. Maybe I need to hold it
in longer to activate it? Or because the problem is
constant it won't reset or whatever it's suppose to do?

http://i63.tinypic.com/301ddhd.jpg

Robert

  #59  
Old December 15th 18, 05:56 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Mark Twain
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,402
Default O.T. HD, PSU review:

Do you suggest I call an electrician and
do a ground test? That could get pricey,..


Robert
  #60  
Old December 15th 18, 06:10 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,873
Default O.T. HD, PSU review:

Mark Twain wrote:
The second picture in the link(the back of the box)
identifies the function of the indicators by numbers:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/APC-SurgeAr...53.m2749.l2649

I don't get any shocks of any kind; also when
I had the Klimaire mini-split system installed
they checked the power panels and the outside
box because they had to tie into it. So wouldn't
they have noticed if it wasn't ground? Since
they tested the 220V with meters etc.

It's a single mobile home by the way, if that makes a
difference in code etc. and live in the desert
near Palm Springs on the other side of the mountain.

Also I had (4) different contractors come out
and give me estimates and they all saw the panels
and the outside box as well and no one said anything
about grounding.

Here's my current APC Surge Arrest; It doesn't have
a switch per se but a reset button that doesn't seem
to work because I've tried it. Maybe I need to hold it
in longer to activate it? Or because the problem is
constant it won't reset or whatever it's suppose to do?

http://i63.tinypic.com/301ddhd.jpg

Robert


But this is why you're buying another surge arrestor
right ? The current one damaged by the mis-applied
220V to the 110V surge arrestor ?

It's probably blown out inside. That would account
for the red LED reporting the functional failure.

Check for symptoms again (red LED) when the new
one you ordered shows up. The red LED should be off
on the new one, and the new one ready to function.

Paul
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off






All times are GMT +1. The time now is 09:43 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 PCbanter.
The comments are property of their posters.