Good Reasons to Avoid 10, Summary

Updating when it wants to and not when you want it to.

Adverts in your face.

Incessant telemetry.

Higher overhead on resources.

On 18/05/2017 21:31, SteveGG wrote:
Updating when it wants to and not when you want it to.

Adverts in your face.

Incessant telemetry.

Higher overhead on resources.

**** OFF

**** OFF

**** OFF

**** OFF

**** OFF

**** OFF

**** OFF

**** OFF

**** OFF

**** OFF

**** OFF

**** OFF

--
With over 500 million devices now running Windows 10, customer
satisfaction is higher than any previous version of windows.

Per SteveGG:
Adverts in your face.

Can somebody expound on that?

Sales guy at Micro Center almost had me convinced that there was nothing
to worry about if I bought a 10 machine.... *almost*....
--
Pete Cresswell

(PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per SteveGG:
Adverts in your face.

Can somebody expound on that?

Sales guy at Micro Center almost had me convinced that there was nothing
to worry about if I bought a 10 machine.... *almost*....

The more you do with the OS, the more advertising
you are likely to see.

Promoted games can be put in your Tiles.
You can remove those.
An example might be Candy Crush.

In the Notification thing, I get quite a few

"Get Office 365"

or similar. I now just ignore the notification
side-bar at startup. If I hear "Ding", I don't look :-)
Pavlovs Anti-Dog.

For the rest of the mechanisms, like a promotion
to increase the size of Onedrive (rental) or something,
I don't use OneDrive (never touched it) or
DropBox, so there are no "triggers" for me
to receive targeted advertising.

I haven't been annoyed to the point of deleting the
Win10 OS from its hard drive.

Win10 Release has its own 500GB drive.

And Win10 Insider is a dual boot install on a separate
500GB drive.

Getting Win10 Insider OS upgrades to install, is a
hair-pulling exercise. What was neat, the last one
I did, is if you keep hitting the "Retry" button,
the outcome actually changes from one attempt to
the next, until it works! I thought that was pretty
neat. It should have been the definition of insanity,
and somehow the install procedure is adapting, between
tries. Since my Win10 is a dual boot, upgrading the
first OS, I tried "the usual methods" to coax it along.
Once I realized what was going on with Retry, when
I updated the second OS, I just kept hammering the
button after each failure. Maybe some day, this feature
will show up in the September 2017 Release stream upgrade.

Paul

"(PeteCresswell)" wrote

| Sales guy at Micro Center almost had me convinced that there was nothing
| to worry about if I bought a 10 machine.... *almost*....

Just as there's almost no issue with product
activation. Easy as pie. Until you run into your
present situation and come face to face with
the fact that you paid for a Windows license
and it's actually a crippled, partial license.

You can almost completely stop all the spying.
The automatic updates may be almost
effortless. There are almost no ads, anyway.....

I see many people say such things. Windows 10
is not so bad... But just as with product activation,
you grant them power by accepting the terms and
then they're in charge. That makes it a moving
target. Mostly ads for games now? OK. Setting
aside the fact that implies they're spying on your
what you do with your computer, what's to prevent
popups for hemmorhoid cream and acid reflux drugs
down the line? What's to stop the local drug store
or supermarket sending you ads sourced in their
partnership with Microsoft?

"Mayayana" on Thu, 18 May 2017 18:43:22
-0400 typed in alt.windows7.general the following:

"(PeteCresswell)" wrote

| Sales guy at Micro Center almost had me convinced that there was nothing
| to worry about if I bought a 10 machine.... *almost*....

Just as there's almost no issue with product
activation. Easy as pie. Until you run into your
present situation and come face to face with
the fact that you paid for a Windows license
and it's actually a crippled, partial license.

You can almost completely stop all the spying.
The automatic updates may be almost
effortless. There are almost no ads, anyway.....

I see many people say such things. Windows 10
is not so bad... But just as with product activation,
you grant them power by accepting the terms and
then they're in charge. That makes it a moving
target. Mostly ads for games now? OK. Setting
aside the fact that implies they're spying on your
what you do with your computer, what's to prevent
popups for hemmorhoid cream and acid reflux drugs
down the line? What's to stop the local drug store
or supermarket sending you ads sourced in their
partnership with Microsoft?

Bingo.

--
pyotr filipivich
Next month's Panel: Graft - Boon or blessing?

On Thu, 18 May 2017 16:31:35 -0400, SteveGG
wrote:

Updating when it wants to and not when you want it to.

Adverts in your face.

Incessant telemetry.

Higher overhead on resources.

This is not a summary, this is you just wanting to bitch. You keep
posting the same thing and many people have told you they don't see
ads. I have never seen an ad. Telemetry is controllable if you wanted
to learn. I have not had any problems with high overhead on resources.
Why don't you take the time to learn how to control the OS instead of
these whiney repetitious posts? Nobody is forcing you to use Win10.
You should move on to Linux, then you would have something to
legitimately whine about.
--
JT

On Thu, 18 May 2017 17:56:56 -0400, Paul wrote:

Getting Win10 Insider OS upgrades to install, is a
hair-pulling exercise. What was neat, the last one
I did, is if you keep hitting the "Retry" button,
the outcome actually changes from one attempt to
the next, until it works! I thought that was pretty
neat. It should have been the definition of insanity,
and somehow the install procedure is adapting, between
tries. Since my Win10 is a dual boot, upgrading the
first OS, I tried "the usual methods" to coax it along.
Once I realized what was going on with Retry, when
I updated the second OS, I just kept hammering the
button after each failure. Maybe some day, this feature
will show up in the September 2017 Release stream upgrade.

What was Einstein's definition of stupidity? - something like 'repeating the
same action and expecting a different outcome'.
MS seems to have cracked it!
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

In message , Justin Tyme
writes:
[]
This is not a summary, this is you just wanting to bitch. You keep
posting the same thing and many people have told you they don't see
ads. I have never seen an ad. Telemetry is controllable if you wanted
to learn. I have not had any problems with high overhead on resources.
Why don't you take the time to learn how to control the OS instead of
these whiney repetitious posts? Nobody is forcing you to use Win10.

All true (well I'm not sure how controllable it all is in total, but I'm
willing to believe that a _lot_ _can_ be controlled with effort), but
with earlier versions you didn't _have_ to do all this "learning" to
turn off such things. It's the _default_ settings that are irritating.

(Not that as-delivered defaults being bad are anything new - for
example, not showing filename extensions has been there since I think
Windows 3, and - especially with it being such a common malware aspect -
you'd have thought they'd have changed that one, but they haven't;
however, the telemetry etc. were less _there_ in earlier versions.)

You should move on to Linux, then you would have something to
legitimately whine about.

Or wine ... (-:
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Diplomacy is the art of letting someone have your way.

On 19/5/2017 4:31 AM, SteveGG wrote:
Updating when it wants to and not when you want it to.

Adverts in your face.

Incessant telemetry.

Higher overhead on resources.


Just disable the Window$ Update service to disable automatic update. M$
would soon offer control over the update process after Creator Update.

--
@~@ Remain silent! Drink, Blink, Stretch! Live long and prosper!!
/ v \ Simplicity is Beauty!
/( _ )\ May the Force and farces be with you!
^ ^ (x86_64 Ubuntu 9.10) Linux 2.6.39.3
�借貸! ��騙! ��交! �打交! �打劫! �自殺! 請考慮綜� (CSSA):
http://www.swd.gov.hk/tc/index/site_...sub_addressesa

"Justin Tyme" wrote

| Telemetry is controllable if you wanted to learn.
| Why don't you take the time to learn how to control the OS instead of
| these whiney repetitious posts? Nobody is forcing you to use Win10.


What are the options? Paying through the nose for
Apple kiddie-ware? Installing Linux and giving up
most of the software one uses? This is not just
theory. Win7 is still available, but for anyone buying
a computer at the store for a reasonable price, and
needing to use Windows software, Win10 is pretty
much it. That's how Windows got so popular in the
first place. Software.

Your view is exactly the pooh-poohing attitude I
described above. First, telemtry is not realistically
controllable by most people. MS know that. All
software companies know that anything they hide
behind a button marked "Advanced" will never be
seen by most people.

Here's an example of Win10 callouts:

https://packetfactory.wordpress.com/...-cheesuscrust/

Here's one of many articles about the difficulty of
really stopping Win10:

http://arstechnica.com/information-t...-to-microsoft/

From the EULA:

"By accepting this agreement and using the software you agree that Microsoft
may collect, use, and disclose the information as described in the Microsoft
Privacy Statement"

From the privacy terms (which can and do change!):

"Microsoft collects data...
recording how you interact with our products...
We also obtain data from third parties...
we purchase demographic data...
[read: We have partners in spying on you. You
should read the 3rd-party list. Interesting stuff.]

There are disclaimers about how you don't have to
provide all data, but also caveats about how many
things won't work unless you do. Especially clever is
that they've created an umbrella. The Windows
agreement comes under the all-our-stuff agreement,
which includes online services. So you don't have to
allow them to collect data from Skype, hotmail, or
any Windows software, as long as you don't mind that
software not working. By mashing it all together they
essentially redefine Windows itself as a service.

On the one hand, it's not easy to track down *exactly*
which spying can't be disabled. On the other hand,
MS are not hiding a lot of it. This link is full of bragging
about *exactly* how much time people have spent
on various MS software. So if you use, say, Edge, they
know exactly how many minutes you've used it!:

https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexp...llion-devices/

The point being that people can debate the fine points,
but Win10 is defined as a service. You can't fully control
it. you can't refuse updates that change it. Whatever freedom
you might have to adjust various tracking functions, it's
still their computer now. You gave it to them. You're
sitting in a prison cell saying, "Wha?! They can't stop me
from looking out the window, so why all the whining?"

For anyone who wants to know the gory details, you
can start with the privacy policy.... or at least today's
version of it:

https://privacy.microsoft.com/en-us/privacystatement/

"PeterC" wrote

| What was Einstein's definition of stupidity? - something like 'repeating
the
| same action and expecting a different outcome'.
| MS seems to have cracked it!

Not arguing with your point, but I've never
understood that saying. I wonder if Einstein
really said it. It doesn't apply to hammering,
for instance. I might bang a sledge on an old
cast iron bathtub dozens of times. I fully expect
that one of those times will result in a broken
tub, even if the first 17 bangs didn't. Or turning
a key in a tricky lock. Sometimes it takes a few
tries. Or watering the lawn. The effect will be
different on a dry day compared to after a recent
rain. Or having sex after having cleared up a
disagreement. Same action, much better
outcome.

There's no action that's not interconnected
with numerous other factors, so we might actually
more accurately say that stupidity is doing the
same action and expecting the *same* outcome.
Or more to the point, that stupidity is thinking it's
possible to repeat an action at all. It's easy to think
of good examples of that "stupidity". We all tend
to try to repeat pleasures: Cancun was nice last
year. Let's do that again. But this year it rained.
Woops. That chocolate ice cream was so good.
Let's get some more. But now I have a stomach
ache. Woops. That sex was incredible the first two
times. Let's do it again. But now we've just done it
too many times and we both feel awkward. Woops.
That beer... That joint... It's often tempting to
think we can repeat pleasures, but then it turns out
that it's actually not the same act and we've only
"prostituted the present to the future", trying to
get a cheap thrill at the expense of actually relating
to what's happening.

On Fri, 19 May 2017 08:07:39 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
wrote:

In message , Justin Tyme
writes:
[]
This is not a summary, this is you just wanting to bitch. You keep
posting the same thing and many people have told you they don't see
ads. I have never seen an ad. Telemetry is controllable if you wanted
to learn. I have not had any problems with high overhead on resources.
Why don't you take the time to learn how to control the OS instead of
these whiney repetitious posts? Nobody is forcing you to use Win10.

All true (well I'm not sure how controllable it all is in total, but I'm
willing to believe that a _lot_ _can_ be controlled with effort), but
with earlier versions you didn't _have_ to do all this "learning" to
turn off such things.


There's not really a whole lot that as to be learnt. It's not that
difficult to control.


It's the _default_ settings that are irritating.


Yes, I agree.


(Not that as-delivered defaults being bad are anything new - for
example, not showing filename extensions has been there since I think
Windows 3, and - especially with it being such a common malware aspect -
you'd have thought they'd have changed that one, but they haven't;
however, the telemetry etc. were less _there_ in earlier versions.)

You should move on to Linux, then you would have something to
legitimately whine about.

Or wine ... (-:


Yes, a *much* better choice than whine. g

On Fri, 19 May 2017 10:17:18 -0400, "Mayayana"
wrote:

"Justin Tyme" wrote

| Telemetry is controllable if you wanted to learn.
| Why don't you take the time to learn how to control the OS instead of
| these whiney repetitious posts? Nobody is forcing you to use Win10.


What are the options? Paying through the nose for
Apple kiddie-ware? Installing Linux and giving up
most of the software one uses? This is not just
theory. Win7 is still available, but for anyone buying
a computer at the store for a reasonable price, and
needing to use Windows software, Win10 is pretty
much it. That's how Windows got so popular in the
first place. Software.

Your view is exactly the pooh-poohing attitude I
described above. First, telemtry is not realistically
controllable by most people. MS know that. All
software companies know that anything they hide
behind a button marked "Advanced" will never be
seen by most people.

Here's an example of Win10 callouts:

https://packetfactory.wordpress.com/...-cheesuscrust/

Here's one of many articles about the difficulty of
really stopping Win10:

http://arstechnica.com/information-t...-to-microsoft/

From the EULA:

"By accepting this agreement and using the software you agree that Microsoft
may collect, use, and disclose the information as described in the Microsoft
Privacy Statement"

From the privacy terms (which can and do change!):

"Microsoft collects data...
recording how you interact with our products...
We also obtain data from third parties...
we purchase demographic data...
[read: We have partners in spying on you. You
should read the 3rd-party list. Interesting stuff.]

There are disclaimers about how you don't have to
provide all data, but also caveats about how many
things won't work unless you do. Especially clever is
that they've created an umbrella. The Windows
agreement comes under the all-our-stuff agreement,
which includes online services. So you don't have to
allow them to collect data from Skype, hotmail, or
any Windows software, as long as you don't mind that
software not working. By mashing it all together they
essentially redefine Windows itself as a service.

On the one hand, it's not easy to track down *exactly*
which spying can't be disabled. On the other hand,
MS are not hiding a lot of it. This link is full of bragging
about *exactly* how much time people have spent
on various MS software. So if you use, say, Edge, they
know exactly how many minutes you've used it!:

https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexp...llion-devices/

The point being that people can debate the fine points,
but Win10 is defined as a service. You can't fully control
it. you can't refuse updates that change it. Whatever freedom
you might have to adjust various tracking functions, it's
still their computer now. You gave it to them. You're
sitting in a prison cell saying, "Wha?! They can't stop me
from looking out the window, so why all the whining?"

For anyone who wants to know the gory details, you
can start with the privacy policy.... or at least today's
version of it:

https://privacy.microsoft.com/en-us/privacystatement/


No argument with your post. The points you make are valid.

I have used Windows since 3.1 came out and each version of Windows has
had issues and complaints, we have no choice but adapt or move on. The
strategy of hanging on to an old OS only works for a time, eventually
most of us have to move on to new systems at some point.

Privacy is not easily achievable with most of the devices we use today
be it computers or cell phones. Microsoft is not alone, Android
(Google), Apple etc. are all the same or even worse. This is the world
we live in. There are some steps we can take. I have Win10 pretty much
locked down but I am sure there are many things that MS does that
users are not aware of. MS is in control and I am not that naive to
think that I can shut them out completely but I try.

I was feeling a bit cranky yesterday and I took issue with Steve. His
post was trolling. He posted the same thing yesterday as he has
before. He did not want to get advice or to give it. He just wanted to
bitch. I get a little sick of reading bitch posts from W10Hater and
Steve. If they have something constructive to say fine, but they do
not. I am all for a good discussion but Steve just made a statement
and that was it. His intent was to troll.
--
JT

On Fri, 19 May 2017 10:50:38 -0700, Ken Blake
wrote:

On Fri, 19 May 2017 08:07:39 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
wrote:

In message , Justin Tyme
writes:
[]
This is not a summary, this is you just wanting to bitch. You keep
posting the same thing and many people have told you they don't see
ads. I have never seen an ad. Telemetry is controllable if you wanted
to learn. I have not had any problems with high overhead on resources.
Why don't you take the time to learn how to control the OS instead of
these whiney repetitious posts? Nobody is forcing you to use Win10.

All true (well I'm not sure how controllable it all is in total, but I'm
willing to believe that a _lot_ _can_ be controlled with effort), but
with earlier versions you didn't _have_ to do all this "learning" to
turn off such things.


There's not really a whole lot that as to be learnt. It's not that
difficult to control.


It's the _default_ settings that are irritating.


Yes, I agree.


(Not that as-delivered defaults being bad are anything new - for
example, not showing filename extensions has been there since I think
Windows 3, and - especially with it being such a common malware aspect -
you'd have thought they'd have changed that one, but they haven't;
however, the telemetry etc. were less _there_ in earlier versions.)

You should move on to Linux, then you would have something to
legitimately whine about.

Or wine ... (-:


Yes, a *much* better choice than whine. g

LOL. After I hit the post button I thought that 'wine' would have been
a better choice.
--
JT