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#271
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Can a Macintosh person tell us how to change the name of a file?
In article ,
Diesel wrote: nospam Thu, 04 Jan 2018 04:47:49 GMT in alt.windows7.general, wrote: needing to use the numeric keypad to those characters is a windows shortcoming. A windows shortcoming? You don't actually need to use the numeric keypad, you do have other ways of selecting the extended ascii characters if one so desired. But the point remains, what normal user is going to search for characters that aren't shown on their keyboards? How many normal users even know there's 255 characters in the ASCII table in the first place? There's 128 characters in ASCII, not 255. Plus both windows and Macs have been using unicode for some time now so ASCII isn't really relevant. Andre -- To email remove 'invalid' & replace 'gm' with well known Google mail service. |
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#272
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Can a Macintosh person tell us how to change the name of a file?
Andre G. Isaak wrote:
Plus both windows and Macs have been using unicode for some time now so ASCII isn't really relevant. How long, exactly? Anybody know? The reason I ask is that I often have to deal with legacy files (and software), so it would be useful to know the cut-off point(s). Paul Magnussen |
#273
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Can a Macintosh person tell us how to change the name of a file?
In article , Paul
Magnussen wrote: Plus both windows and Macs have been using unicode for some time now so ASCII isn't really relevant. How long, exactly? Anybody know? mac os 8.5, in 1998. |
#274
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Can a Macintosh person tell us how to change the name of a file?
In article , Wolf K
wrote: Plus both windows and Macs have been using unicode for some time now so ASCII isn't really relevant. How long, exactly?* Anybody know? The reason I ask is that I often have to deal with legacy files (and software), so it would be useful to know the cut-off point(s). ASCII may no longer be the "preferred" character set, but it's still used here and there. IOW, there is no "cutoff date". Best to assume that ASCII lurks in the nooks and crannies of some software until proven otherwise. it's obsolete. |
#275
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Can a Macintosh person tell us how to change the name of a file?
In article ,
Wolf K wrote: On 2018-01-06 12:16, Paul Magnussen wrote: Andre G. Isaak wrote: Plus both windows and Macs have been using unicode for some time now so ASCII isn't really relevant. How long, exactly?* Anybody know? The reason I ask is that I often have to deal with legacy files (and software), so it would be useful to know the cut-off point(s). Paul Magnussen ASCII may no longer be the "preferred" character set, but it's still used here and there. IOW, there is no "cutoff date". Best to assume that ASCII lurks in the nooks and crannies of some software until proven otherwise. Anything written in ASCII is valid UTF-8, so it isn't going to pose any problems for modern operating systems. Andre -- To email remove 'invalid' & replace 'gm' with well known Google mail service. |
#276
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Can a Macintosh person tell us how to change the name of a file?
In message Paul Magnussen wrote:
Andre G. Isaak wrote: Plus both windows and Macs have been using unicode for some time now so ASCII isn't really relevant. How long, exactly? Anybody know? OS X had Unicode from the beginning. It was added to the old Mac OS in 8.1 or 8.5, IIRC. No idea when Windows added it, but I don't think it was there in XP. They did have support for UTF-16 (WHY?!?!) in Windows 2000. I also know that Windows 7 does not support UTF-8 and I am reasonably sure that Windows 10 is still using the vastly inferior UTF-16, but don't know if UTF-8 is possible. (Microsoft still claims UTF-16 is the most common Unicode encoding, which is a flat out lie) -- Overhead, without any fuss, the stars were going out. |
#277
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Can a Macintosh person tell us how to change the name of a file?
nospam
Fri, 05 Jan 2018 17:29:29 GMT in alt.windows7.general, wrote: Okay, so you can press two keys instead when if using the alt method on Windows, I have to press a total of four. Alt and the corresponding keycode representing the ascii character. like (that's alt 225). it's one key & a modifier, no different than holding shift while typing 3 for #, or shift and = for +. your four keys are in sequence and far slower, plus it requires memorizing numbers for each character, which is absurd. far slower is a matter of debate, I suppose. Mostly depending on how fast/slow one types. For me, I can bring up a simple 'chart' to see all the characters along with their corresponding codes, so I don't have to memorize each option+character to do it. that's also an option, but it's slower. Perhaps by milliseconds... mac os x, with unix under the hood, uses c strings, where null indicates the end of a string. therefore null *can't* be part of a string. I'm aware of the differences in the way *nix treats string terminations vs that of DOS/Windows. that's because windows has a lot of limitations that don't exist on other systems. Those aforementioned limitations predate Windows by several years. Windows provides backward compatability to a point and that's why those reserved characters are still present today. They come from the days of DOS and OS's very similiar to DOS, but, not being DOS as you know it on the PC platform. Due to backwards compatability, it's necessary for Windows to follow certain rules setup long before it existed. in other words, carrying on the mistakes of the past. That's one way of looking at it, sure. Another way, as I previously stated is backwards compatability with hundreds of thousands of older applications people relied on and didn't want to lose by 'upgrading' their copy of Windows and/or installing Windows in the first place. It's not a bug. It's an association issue. For the most part, Windows associates extensions with the app chosen to open them, unless it examines the file header when you opt to open it and chooses the best program based on the file header. .reg is associated with registry editor, for example. if the user renames a file causing it to lose its association, it's a bug. simple as that. Again, it's not a bug. It's a difference in the way Windows and your mac treat files. Your macs also do the association thing, but, in a different way. on a mac, that doesn't happen. Not too long ago, transferring files created on a mac to a non mac system was a pain in the ass because the mac had additional data concerning the file that wasn't with the file itself. Requiring you to take additional steps to ensure the file could be transferred properly through the non mac back to another mac without losing anything in the process. That to me, is a poor design. Works great for mac to mac, but, not so good when you leave the world of mac. A mac stores this information elsewhere as meta data. It's just not as straight forward as Windows is concerning file associations. it's actually very straightforward and was *well* ahead of its time. On that we'll agree to disagree. -- To prevent yourself from being a victim of cyber stalking, it's highly recommended you visit he https://tekrider.net/pages/david-brooks-stalker.php ================================================== = If you can't laugh at yourself, make fun of other people. --Bobby Slayton |
#278
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Can a Macintosh person tell us how to change the name of a file?
Lewis
Fri, 05 Jan 2018 20:50:54 GMT in alt.windows7.general, wrote: In message Diesel wrote: nospam Thu, 04 Jan 2018 04:47:49 GMT in alt.windows7.general, wrote: needing to use the numeric keypad to those characters is a windows shortcoming. A windows shortcoming? You don't actually need to use the numeric keypad, you do have other ways of selecting the extended ascii characters if one so desired. But the point remains, what normal user is going to search for characters that aren't shown on their keyboards? Zoë, Chloë, Anton*a, and the billions of people who don't speak English. for example: option-g © option-2 option-p ¼ Okay, so you can press two keys instead when if using the alt method on Windows, I have to press a total of four. And you have to memorize that 0163 means something and 1064 means something entirely different. option-e + a vowel puts an accute accent on the vowel. Option-u plus a vowel puts ü over the vowel. So I don't have to remember a different 4 digit code for ë and ü and ö. Alt and the corresponding keycode representing the ascii character. Which is an idiotic UI. It wasn't invented with Windows. Again, it predates Windows and isn't the only manner of doing it. For me, I can bring up a simple 'chart' to see all the characters along with their corresponding codes, so I don't have to memorize each option+character to do it. Yeah, that's a great solution. Bring up a chart. People who write code or design web pages without the use of 'do it all for you, you just draw pretty pictures' are used to doing this. -- To prevent yourself from being a victim of cyber stalking, it's highly recommended you visit he https://tekrider.net/pages/david-brooks-stalker.php ================================================== = Evolution sounds okay, but I'd rather keep my options open. |
#279
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Can a Macintosh person tell us how to change the name of a file?
"Andre G. Isaak"
Sat, 06 Jan 2018 09:49:39 GMT in alt.windows7.general, wrote: In article , Diesel wrote: nospam Thu, 04 Jan 2018 04:47:49 GMT in alt.windows7.general, wrote: needing to use the numeric keypad to those characters is a windows shortcoming. A windows shortcoming? You don't actually need to use the numeric keypad, you do have other ways of selecting the extended ascii characters if one so desired. But the point remains, what normal user is going to search for characters that aren't shown on their keyboards? How many normal users even know there's 255 characters in the ASCII table in the first place? There's 128 characters in ASCII, not 255. There's actually 256 characters in the ASCII character set. Plus both windows and Macs have been using unicode for some time now so ASCII isn't really relevant. You clearly don't know what unicode is actually doing then... -- To prevent yourself from being a victim of cyber stalking, it's highly recommended you visit he https://tekrider.net/pages/david-brooks-stalker.php ================================================== = An optimist is just a pessimist who doesn't get the point |
#280
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Can a Macintosh person tell us how to change the name of a file?
Lewis
Fri, 05 Jan 2018 20:56:34 GMT in alt.windows7.general, wrote: In message Diesel wrote: Lewis NULL cannot be used anywhere in a filename in Windows. Well, actually, it can. But the file manager won't like you for doing it. The OS itself doesn't care, as long as the first character isn't a null. Go tell microsoft they are wrong then. They specifically note that NULL is forbidden and also mention that all codes under ASCII(32) are forbidden. But I am sure you know better than Microsoft. More importantly, I know why MS doesn't want you to use those codes. what you wrote isn't entirely true. You can use a few of the ones from the 32 or less set, but not all of them. See above. Microsoft say you can't. Microsoft says lots of things which aren't true, though. For a variety of reasons. -- To prevent yourself from being a victim of cyber stalking, it's highly recommended you visit he https://tekrider.net/pages/david-brooks-stalker.php ================================================== = What did God say when he made the first black man? "Damn, I burnt one." |
#281
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Can a Macintosh person tell us how to change the name of a file?
In article
c4z38p.4qHzfw, Diesel wrote: Not too long ago, transferring files created on a mac to a non mac system was a pain in the ass because the mac had additional data concerning the file that wasn't with the file itself. Requiring you to take additional steps to ensure the file could be transferred properly through the non mac back to another mac without losing anything in the process. That to me, is a poor design. Works great for mac to mac, but, not so good when you leave the world of mac. no extra steps were required. mac comm software took care of the details. i used to send/receive files using a mac via x/y/z-modem as well as ftp to/from a variety of systems, from pc clones to unix workstations to mainframes without any issues whatsoever. tl;dr user error. |
#282
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Can a Macintosh person tell us how to change the name of a file?
Diesel wrote:
"Andre G. Isaak" Sat, 06 Jan 2018 09:49:39 GMT in alt.windows7.general, wrote: In article , Diesel wrote: nospam Thu, 04 Jan 2018 04:47:49 GMT in alt.windows7.general, wrote: needing to use the numeric keypad to those characters is a windows shortcoming. A windows shortcoming? You don't actually need to use the numeric keypad, you do have other ways of selecting the extended ascii characters if one so desired. But the point remains, what normal user is going to search for characters that aren't shown on their keyboards? How many normal users even know there's 255 characters in the ASCII table in the first place? There's 128 characters in ASCII, not 255. There's actually 256 characters in the ASCII character set. No, it isn't. *If* you had some point (you don't), it would be max 255 characters (inclduing the control-characters) 256 characters is already extending the set to using 1 bit more (you need 9 bits for that, not just 8) And ASCII uses only the first 7 bits of a character, so it is only 127 characters in the ASCII set. The character sets using 8 bits are the "extended ASCII" sets used by windows and OS/2. They have nothing to do with Unicode (neither UTF-8 nor UTF-16) Plus both windows and Macs have been using unicode for some time now so ASCII isn't really relevant. You clearly don't know what unicode is actually doing then... Well, you certainly don't have the foggiest. |
#283
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Can a Macintosh person tell us how to change the name of a file?
In article
c4z38p.4qHzfw, Diesel wrote: "Andre G. Isaak" Sat, 06 Jan 2018 09:49:39 GMT in alt.windows7.general, wrote: In article , Diesel wrote: nospam Thu, 04 Jan 2018 04:47:49 GMT in alt.windows7.general, wrote: needing to use the numeric keypad to those characters is a windows shortcoming. A windows shortcoming? You don't actually need to use the numeric keypad, you do have other ways of selecting the extended ascii characters if one so desired. But the point remains, what normal user is going to search for characters that aren't shown on their keyboards? How many normal users even know there's 255 characters in the ASCII table in the first place? There's 128 characters in ASCII, not 255. There's actually 256 characters in the ASCII character set. ASCII is a 7-bit code. Always has been. Windows 1252, ISO Latin 1, MacRoman, etc. may support 256 characters, but none of these are ASCII. Plus both windows and Macs have been using unicode for some time now so ASCII isn't really relevant. You clearly don't know what unicode is actually doing then... You're really going to have to clarify that... Andre -- To email remove 'invalid' & replace 'gm' with well known Google mail service. |
#284
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Can a Macintosh person tell us how to change the name of a file?
Peter =?UTF-8?B?S8O2aGxtYW5u?=
news alt.windows7.general, wrote: Diesel wrote: "Andre G. Isaak" Sat, 06 Jan 2018 09:49:39 GMT in alt.windows7.general, wrote: In article , Diesel wrote: nospam Thu, 04 Jan 2018 04:47:49 GMT in alt.windows7.general, wrote: needing to use the numeric keypad to those characters is a windows shortcoming. A windows shortcoming? You don't actually need to use the numeric keypad, you do have other ways of selecting the extended ascii characters if one so desired. But the point remains, what normal user is going to search for characters that aren't shown on their keyboards? How many normal users even know there's 255 characters in the ASCII table in the first place? There's 128 characters in ASCII, not 255. There's actually 256 characters in the ASCII character set. No, it isn't. 255, my bad. That includes extended ascii etc... though. And yes, I understand that strictly speaking, extended ascii is not an addition to the original ASCII set, which is 128 characters. That being said though, when I said ASCII table I wasn't isolating 128 original characters but the entire character set. And I'm not sure how the person who responded could have not known that? Plus both windows and Macs have been using unicode for some time now so ASCII isn't really relevant. You clearly don't know what unicode is actually doing then... Well, you certainly don't have the foggiest. Sure I do. Perhaps you've never heard the term "Wide body ASCII" to describe Unicode? It's an encoding format and there's more than one of them. Several ASCII characters are used to represent a single value in Unicode. Technical information Unicode number U+0114 HTML-code Ĕ Latin Capital Letter E with Breve -- To prevent yourself from being a victim of cyber stalking, it's highly recommended you visit he https://tekrider.net/pages/david-brooks-stalker.php ================================================== = A relationship is like a shark. It has to keep moving forward or it dies. |
#285
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Can a Macintosh person tell us how to change the name of a file?
In article
lWdq24vx00ICu1, Diesel wrote: Peter =?UTF-8?B?S8O2aGxtYW5u?= news alt.windows7.general, wrote: Diesel wrote: "Andre G. Isaak" Sat, 06 Jan 2018 09:49:39 GMT in alt.windows7.general, wrote: In article , Diesel wrote: nospam Thu, 04 Jan 2018 04:47:49 GMT in alt.windows7.general, wrote: needing to use the numeric keypad to those characters is a windows shortcoming. A windows shortcoming? You don't actually need to use the numeric keypad, you do have other ways of selecting the extended ascii characters if one so desired. But the point remains, what normal user is going to search for characters that aren't shown on their keyboards? How many normal users even know there's 255 characters in the ASCII table in the first place? There's 128 characters in ASCII, not 255. There's actually 256 characters in the ASCII character set. No, it isn't. 255, my bad. That includes extended ascii etc... though. And yes, I understand that strictly speaking, extended ascii is not an addition to the original ASCII set, which is 128 characters. That being said though, when I said ASCII table I wasn't isolating 128 original characters but the entire character set. And I'm not sure how the person who responded could have not known that? There is no such thing as extended ASCII. Stating that there are 256 characters in the ASCII table is just plain wrong. If you were intending to mean some 8-bit codepage, then you're not dealing with an ASCII table, you're dealing with a ISO-8859-1 table, or a MacRoman table, or a Windows 1252 table, or any of thousands of possible 8-bit encodings. Without specifying which encoding you're talking about your claim is simply uninterpretable. Plus both windows and Macs have been using unicode for some time now so ASCII isn't really relevant. You clearly don't know what unicode is actually doing then... Well, you certainly don't have the foggiest. Sure I do. Perhaps you've never heard the term "Wide body ASCII" to describe Unicode? That term was used in a draft proposal of Unicode88. Unicode88 was a predecessor of Unicode. I've never heard anyone use the term to refer to actual Unicode. It's an encoding format and there's more than one of them. Several ASCII characters are used to represent a single value in Unicode. Unicode doesn't use several ASCII characters to represent a single UCS character. It uses several *octets* (between 1 and 4) to represent a single UCS character. What those octets represent depends on whether you are using UTF-8, UTF-16, or UTF-32, but in none of those systems can those octets be meaningfully described as "ASCII characters" except in the specific instance where UTF-8 is being used to represent characters that are actually *in* ASCII. In that case *one* ASCII character represents one UCS character. Andre -- To email remove 'invalid' & replace 'gm' with well known Google mail service. |
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