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USB device shuts down PC



 
 
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  #46  
Old May 23rd 09, 09:47 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware
john
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 40
Default USB device shuts down PC

w_tom wrote:
On May 21, 1:35 am, Paul wrote:
If +5VSB is ever "flattened", that can cause the power supply to
go off. The question is, what is the mechanism - badly designed
motherboard, badly designed USB device (spec violation on insertion),
or whatever. A simplemultimeteris not going to do a good job of
highlighting a transient problem. The transient could be quite
short.


A transient that short would never cause a problematic voltage
reduction. And increases wire would not avert that transient.

However the extension cord may cause a USB device to not enter High
Speed mode. +5VSB must be so low as to be defective even without the
USB device. Would still boot the computer. Would appear defective
only on the multimeter. So close to the edge that a USB device in
High Speed mode finally causes the crash.

There exists a wide area between good voltage and a crashed
computer. In that wide region is a working computer and a voltage too
low. A condtion found using a multimeter.

Again, a USB transient cannot be that fast and still crash a
computer. Extension cord wire cannot diminish that current. At least
half the posts here are immediately eliminated if simply measuring the
+5VSB with a multimeter. Without those voltage numbers, we are doing
nothing but wild speculation.

I believe that that you are incorrect. I have experienced the 'puter
shutting down because of a static charge when I plugged a a USB drive
in. The solution to my problem was as simple as raising the humidity to
about 25%. Have not had any problems since.

John
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  #47  
Old May 23rd 09, 09:47 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware
john
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 40
Default USB device shuts down PC

w_tom wrote:
On May 21, 1:35 am, Paul wrote:
If +5VSB is ever "flattened", that can cause the power supply to
go off. The question is, what is the mechanism - badly designed
motherboard, badly designed USB device (spec violation on insertion),
or whatever. A simplemultimeteris not going to do a good job of
highlighting a transient problem. The transient could be quite
short.


A transient that short would never cause a problematic voltage
reduction. And increases wire would not avert that transient.

However the extension cord may cause a USB device to not enter High
Speed mode. +5VSB must be so low as to be defective even without the
USB device. Would still boot the computer. Would appear defective
only on the multimeter. So close to the edge that a USB device in
High Speed mode finally causes the crash.

There exists a wide area between good voltage and a crashed
computer. In that wide region is a working computer and a voltage too
low. A condtion found using a multimeter.

Again, a USB transient cannot be that fast and still crash a
computer. Extension cord wire cannot diminish that current. At least
half the posts here are immediately eliminated if simply measuring the
+5VSB with a multimeter. Without those voltage numbers, we are doing
nothing but wild speculation.

I believe that that you are incorrect. I have experienced the 'puter
shutting down because of a static charge when I plugged a a USB drive
in. The solution to my problem was as simple as raising the humidity to
about 25%. Have not had any problems since.

John
  #48  
Old May 25th 09, 02:19 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware
w_tom
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 373
Default USB device shuts down PC

On May 23, 4:47*pm, john wrote:
I believe that that you are incorrect. *I have experienced the 'puter
shutting down because of a static charge when I plugged a a USB drive
in. *The solution to my problem was as simple as raising the humidity to
about 25%. *Have not had any problems since.


The previous post was about load. If a USB load can cause a PC
shutdown, the defective voltage is obvious with numbers from a
multimeter even when the computer is loaded and not causing a
shutdown.

Transients such as a static electric discharge must be so large as
to be obvious by sight or even feel. One reason is because of the
filtering required on every USB port (and that might be missing on a
discounted USB port).

I have even seen static electricity eventually cause damage to the
USB device and still not crash the computer. IOW is a static
discharge is causing a computer crash, well, first the filtering (and
how chassis ground connected differently from digital power ground)
would explain that failure.

One test of any computer is to put it on a glass table (because wood
and other materials are much too electrically conductive). Then build
up major static electricity and touch various corners of the
computer. Some computers are so poorly constructed (either
motherboard connects to the chassis at too many points) as to crash
when that static electric discharged occurs to the chassis. So yes,
static electric discharge can crash a computer. But only if the
computer is improperly assembled so that static electric discharges
into the digital (power) ground.

Again, posted was a response to a USB load created crash. Not a
'static electric discharge' created crash. Due to filtering, that
discharge still should not crash the computer. And that discharge
should be obvious to create a crash if the different grounds are
improperly implemented.
  #49  
Old May 25th 09, 02:19 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware
w_tom
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 373
Default USB device shuts down PC

On May 23, 4:47*pm, john wrote:
I believe that that you are incorrect. *I have experienced the 'puter
shutting down because of a static charge when I plugged a a USB drive
in. *The solution to my problem was as simple as raising the humidity to
about 25%. *Have not had any problems since.


The previous post was about load. If a USB load can cause a PC
shutdown, the defective voltage is obvious with numbers from a
multimeter even when the computer is loaded and not causing a
shutdown.

Transients such as a static electric discharge must be so large as
to be obvious by sight or even feel. One reason is because of the
filtering required on every USB port (and that might be missing on a
discounted USB port).

I have even seen static electricity eventually cause damage to the
USB device and still not crash the computer. IOW is a static
discharge is causing a computer crash, well, first the filtering (and
how chassis ground connected differently from digital power ground)
would explain that failure.

One test of any computer is to put it on a glass table (because wood
and other materials are much too electrically conductive). Then build
up major static electricity and touch various corners of the
computer. Some computers are so poorly constructed (either
motherboard connects to the chassis at too many points) as to crash
when that static electric discharged occurs to the chassis. So yes,
static electric discharge can crash a computer. But only if the
computer is improperly assembled so that static electric discharges
into the digital (power) ground.

Again, posted was a response to a USB load created crash. Not a
'static electric discharge' created crash. Due to filtering, that
discharge still should not crash the computer. And that discharge
should be obvious to create a crash if the different grounds are
improperly implemented.
  #50  
Old May 25th 09, 02:36 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware
w_tom
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 373
Default USB device shuts down PC

On May 23, 6:56*am, Leythos wrote:
And you can't measure that value without cutting into the cable/device,
since you have to measure it at the device to be sure.


Anyone with first year technician education knows wire need not be
cut to measure. It says so much about that poster's knowledge. He
only understands swapping parts - shotgunning. Does not even know how
to use a meter. Multimeters are required even by every auto mechanic
because a meter is that easy necessary for fixing things electrical.
But the technically ignorant - shotgunners - never learn how to use
the meter. Even assume a wire must be cut to measure.

A defective power supply can still boot a computer. The most
technically ignorant see that computer boot and then magically *know *
a defective supply must be good. A shotgunner who never learned
would not even know how to use the meter and post lies to deny that
technical ignorance.
  #51  
Old May 25th 09, 02:36 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware
w_tom
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 373
Default USB device shuts down PC

On May 23, 6:56*am, Leythos wrote:
And you can't measure that value without cutting into the cable/device,
since you have to measure it at the device to be sure.


Anyone with first year technician education knows wire need not be
cut to measure. It says so much about that poster's knowledge. He
only understands swapping parts - shotgunning. Does not even know how
to use a meter. Multimeters are required even by every auto mechanic
because a meter is that easy necessary for fixing things electrical.
But the technically ignorant - shotgunners - never learn how to use
the meter. Even assume a wire must be cut to measure.

A defective power supply can still boot a computer. The most
technically ignorant see that computer boot and then magically *know *
a defective supply must be good. A shotgunner who never learned
would not even know how to use the meter and post lies to deny that
technical ignorance.
  #52  
Old May 25th 09, 04:18 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware
Leythos[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 976
Default USB device shuts down PC

In article 0143fd5d-c39d-4cfd-9cac-0ed0625e8954
@s28g2000vbp.googlegroups.com, says...

On May 23, 6:56*am, Leythos wrote:
And you can't measure that value without cutting into the cable/device,
since you have to measure it at the device to be sure.


Anyone with first year technician education knows wire need not be
cut to measure. It says so much about that poster's knowledge.


Anyone with basic knowledge, which you don't have, knows that you can't
measure without reaching a conductor - since the USB device is connected
via a cable (at least what was beind discussed), there are NO EXPOSED
CONDUCTORS - cutting into the CABLE is necessary in order to expose a
conductor - you said "wire", I said "cable", they are not the same.

He
only understands swapping parts - shotgunning. Does not even know how
to use a meter. Multimeters are required even by every auto mechanic
because a meter is that easy necessary for fixing things electrical.
But the technically ignorant - shotgunners - never learn how to use
the meter. Even assume a wire must be cut to measure.


You said "Wire" and I said "Cable", showing that you are a idiot. If you
don't cut into the USB "CABLE" to expose the "Wire" (notice I didn't say
cut the WIRE), then you can't measure the voltage AT THE DEVICE.

Please explain to the OP how he's going to measure a value at the Device
side when it's connected via a USB cable if he can't reach any
conductors to measure at?

--
- Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.
- Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented worker" is like calling a
drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist"
(remove 999 for proper email address)
  #53  
Old May 25th 09, 04:18 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware
Leythos[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 976
Default USB device shuts down PC

In article 0143fd5d-c39d-4cfd-9cac-0ed0625e8954
@s28g2000vbp.googlegroups.com, says...

On May 23, 6:56*am, Leythos wrote:
And you can't measure that value without cutting into the cable/device,
since you have to measure it at the device to be sure.


Anyone with first year technician education knows wire need not be
cut to measure. It says so much about that poster's knowledge.


Anyone with basic knowledge, which you don't have, knows that you can't
measure without reaching a conductor - since the USB device is connected
via a cable (at least what was beind discussed), there are NO EXPOSED
CONDUCTORS - cutting into the CABLE is necessary in order to expose a
conductor - you said "wire", I said "cable", they are not the same.

He
only understands swapping parts - shotgunning. Does not even know how
to use a meter. Multimeters are required even by every auto mechanic
because a meter is that easy necessary for fixing things electrical.
But the technically ignorant - shotgunners - never learn how to use
the meter. Even assume a wire must be cut to measure.


You said "Wire" and I said "Cable", showing that you are a idiot. If you
don't cut into the USB "CABLE" to expose the "Wire" (notice I didn't say
cut the WIRE), then you can't measure the voltage AT THE DEVICE.

Please explain to the OP how he's going to measure a value at the Device
side when it's connected via a USB cable if he can't reach any
conductors to measure at?

--
- Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.
- Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented worker" is like calling a
drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist"
(remove 999 for proper email address)
  #54  
Old June 27th 09, 02:34 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware
Neil
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 123
Default USB device shuts down PC

Thanks for all the replies

Recently changed the PSU and the problem stuill exists.
Is this now a motherboard fault?

Thanks

"bg" wrote:


Neil wrote in message
...
Hi,
I have a PC running Windows XP home. I have both front & rear USB ports.
If I plug a printer into any of the USB ports, the PC shuts down with out
warning.
If I plug a USB memory stick into any of the ports, the same thing happens.
I have a USB extension lead, if I plug the extension lead into any USB port
and then plug the memory stick into the extension it works OK.
I have recently installed a PCI USB card, the computer still shuts down

when
devices are plugged in.

Any suggestions?

Thank you.


I recently added a few USB connectors and had the same problem. I assumed
that something was shorting during the insertion, so I changed the
connectors and the problem went away. Seeing as your extension cable works,
you might want to do the same.
bg



  #55  
Old June 27th 09, 02:34 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware
Neil
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 123
Default USB device shuts down PC

Thanks for all the replies

Recently changed the PSU and the problem stuill exists.
Is this now a motherboard fault?

Thanks

"bg" wrote:


Neil wrote in message
...
Hi,
I have a PC running Windows XP home. I have both front & rear USB ports.
If I plug a printer into any of the USB ports, the PC shuts down with out
warning.
If I plug a USB memory stick into any of the ports, the same thing happens.
I have a USB extension lead, if I plug the extension lead into any USB port
and then plug the memory stick into the extension it works OK.
I have recently installed a PCI USB card, the computer still shuts down

when
devices are plugged in.

Any suggestions?

Thank you.


I recently added a few USB connectors and had the same problem. I assumed
that something was shorting during the insertion, so I changed the
connectors and the problem went away. Seeing as your extension cable works,
you might want to do the same.
bg



 




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