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#1
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Messenger Plus! - Let's focus on another Sacred Cow for a while
Enough about the 'End of Free Hotmail' already. Let's dissect Messenger
Plus! now... Sandi's take on Messenger Plus! http://inetexplorer.mvps.org/data/messenger_plus.htm Ready, steady, GO! -- ~Robear Dyer (PA Bear) MS MVP-Windows (IE/OE), AH-VSOP WinXP SP2: What's New for Internet Explorer and Outlook Express http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/s...eoverview.mspx What You Should Know About Spyware http://www.microsoft.com/athome/secu...ssoftware.mspx "There is no 'silver bullet' solution." http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=33131 |
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#2
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Messenger Plus! - Let's focus on another Sacred Cow for a while
Well, what a nice coincidence. For those interested in the subject,
I'm currently working on another, more clear version of the sponsor agreement window. More information available on the Messenger Plus! forum at http://msgplus.mybboard.com . As for your article Sandi, it's well written, I guess you're right on some points but I think you exagerate on some things, especially the "sponsor" term part... writing "lop.com" would be much more misleading than "sponsor" as most people have no idea what "lop.com" is. And, while I'm at it, the company name is not lop.com but C2Media . Anyway, just know that I'm really trying my best to please everyone, it's not like I was happy reading what I read sometimes about my software (or myself) on some forums . Patchou "PA Bear" wrote in message ... Enough about the 'End of Free Hotmail' already. Let's dissect Messenger Plus! now... Sandi's take on Messenger Plus! http://inetexplorer.mvps.org/data/messenger_plus.htm Ready, steady, GO! -- ~Robear Dyer (PA Bear) MS MVP-Windows (IE/OE), AH-VSOP WinXP SP2: What's New for Internet Explorer and Outlook Express http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/s...eoverview.mspx What You Should Know About Spyware http://www.microsoft.com/athome/secu...ssoftware.mspx "There is no 'silver bullet' solution." http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=33131 |
#3
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Messenger Plus! - Let's focus on another Sacred Cow for a while
I just saw this updated on your site and I thought I had to reply...
Why that name and not C2 Media? Because C2 Media describes the owner, not the product, because there is more than one C2 Media company out there, and because lop.com is how the software is commonly identified in various support forums, newsgroups, online support sites and how it is identified in anti-spyware programmes. lop.com is just the name of one of the sites of C2Media, it is absolutely not the name of the product. Feel free to compare my package with old ones under named lop.com, you'll see that they are completely different. And you say it yourself, lop.com is known by many anti-spyware programs and they are the same products that screw up the uninstall data of the sponsor, preventing some epople from really uninstalling it. How could it be my fault if some programs think they can outsmart the uninstall software ofwhat they're trying to remove? if you have some complains, send send to the Adaware and Spybot people. Instead of blindly removing files and registry keys they could simply display a nice message asking the user to the program. I'm really not to blame here, I'm taking a lot of time ensuring the uninstaller does work and you have to understand that there's nothing C2Media can do about third party removing their stuff half way. Try to remove a couple of important registr keys related to MS Office and launch the uninstaller, you'll have the same problem, and it's true for any other software. Finally, as for "lop.com", "sponsor" and "C2Media", I still stand on my point that "sponsor" is what informs people the best way. lop.com and C2Media are not terms you see in the dictionnary and most people don't spend their time in anti-adware forums, you should try to understand that. I'm doing my best to satisfy everyone here, if I didn't care I wouldn't spend all this time replying to posts such as yours, I wish some people could realise that. The same thing goes for C2Media, if they were as horrible as you pretend, their software would install once and for all on your system, like so many other adware do, without any way to remove it (except relying on third party programs). I think everyone should start making a difference between legitimate adware to support a program you use every day and spyware invading your system. Patchou "PA Bear" wrote in message ... Enough about the 'End of Free Hotmail' already. Let's dissect Messenger Plus! now... Sandi's take on Messenger Plus! http://inetexplorer.mvps.org/data/messenger_plus.htm Ready, steady, GO! -- ~Robear Dyer (PA Bear) MS MVP-Windows (IE/OE), AH-VSOP WinXP SP2: What's New for Internet Explorer and Outlook Express http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/s...eoverview.mspx What You Should Know About Spyware http://www.microsoft.com/athome/secu...ssoftware.mspx "There is no 'silver bullet' solution." http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=33131 |
#4
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Messenger Plus! - Let's focus on another Sacred Cow for a while
"PA Bear" wrote in message ...
Sandi's take on Messenger Plus! http://inetexplorer.mvps.org/data/messenger_plus.htm (Reply aimed at Sandi) I'm sorry, but that article is not fully technically accurate, and is also unfair to those of us in the Plus community. Patchou is committed to his users (all 6 million+ of them), and won't sacrifice his or the product's reputation for a bit of extra money. He listens to his users, and the forum members, and tries to find the best compromise. It is this that has lead to Plus being the most respected, popular, and well-known Messenger add-on. As for the forum members themselves, of which I am one (about a year as of this post, and nearly 1000 posts on the forum), those who post regularly are some of the most helpful and patient people around. We are all *voluntarily* here to help. If that's not appreciated, then we can just disappear. But you don't want that, do you? At the end of the day, you can't turn around and slag someone and their product off just because of an optional sponsor. Nor can you slag off the forum members for getting a little fed up with the 10 gazillionth "msn plus iz spywarez" thread from someone who clearly did not read the installer. Basically, be a bit more tolerant and informed. |
#5
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Messenger Plus! - Let's focus on another Sacred Cow for a while
For those wondering what all the flap is about regarding lop.com, please see
the following links: http://www.doxdesk.com/parasite/lop.html http://www.spywareinfo.com/articles/lop/ http://www.spywareinfo.com/newslette...une-2003/3.php (dated, admittedly, but even the current version of MP gives you a "drive by" install of lop.com) What Users Say (Good & Bad) About MP http://www.download.com/3302-2150_4-10320442.html quote 26-Sep-2004 03:22:12 PM "I've used this program for 3 years now." This is awsome software that is now into the third version. I've used it from version 1.2 without any complaintes. it actually runs more stable than msn messenger itself. For all the people who complain about the OPTIONAL sponsor it should just teach you to actually READ the EULA . if you did click to fast it is fully documented on how to remove it. This software would be perfect without the sponsor but then patchou would be living in the street. get over it you selfish people. /quote quote 26-Sep-2004 06:52:12 AM "Sponsor disguised as a EULA to trick people into installing..." Although Patchou and his flock of sheep try to convince people that the sponsor is easily uninstalled, this is not the case for everyone... Yet Patchou and these 'loyal' forum members choose to show nothing but ignorance and arrogance towards anyone who tries to say that uninstalling and reinstalling plus, does NOT remove the sponsor... As a previous beta tester and previous 'loyal' follower of Patchou and this software, I can guarantee that the sponsor does NOT always uninstall without the help of third party software such as Adaware... Patchou now makes enough money from people being 'tricked' into installing the sponsor, that greed has taken over and he no longer cares about the users of his software... Although Plus is a good addon for MSN, I advise people to take particular care when installing so as to avoid the installation of what is definitely spyware... I don't know who you are trying to kid, Patchou, but it is just that...spyware... It is not a toolbar like the google toolbar... It is intrusive and very hard to get rid of... Therefore, it is nothing but spyware... /quote IMO Pachou is to be congratulated for attempting to clarify his relationship with C2 Media (who *still* subtly bury malware in what's called a 'drive by' install) Help with Hijackware http://aumha.org/a/parasite.htm http://aumha.org/a/quickfix.htm http://mvps.org/winhelp2002/unwanted.htm http://inetexplorer.mvps.org/Darnit.htm http://www.mvps.org/sramesh2k/Malware_Defence.htm -- ~PA Bear PA Bear wrote: Enough about the 'End of Free Hotmail' already. Let's dissect Messenger Plus! now... Sandi's take on Messenger Plus! http://inetexplorer.mvps.org/data/messenger_plus.htm Ready, steady, GO! |
#6
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Messenger Plus! - Let's focus on another Sacred Cow for a while
Hmmm.. interesting.. If it weren't for the 'sponsor' he'd be living in the
street. I remember seeing a post about Messenger Plus on one of the anti-spyware sites where Patchou's response was basically "Too bad." Here's a thought that I've seen on a lot of other sites.. PAYPAL. Or StormPay. Your 6 million + members could donate 1 dollar, and you'd never have to work again.. But, that's not an option, right? I liked Messenger Plus BEFORE it installed a bunch of spyware crap on my computer (This was before Patchou stated it in his EULA). I haven't used it since, and I don't recommend it to anyone. Simply because I've seen articles that say where his 'sponsor' is optional, it still installs. Plus, I agree with Sandi about the "Pass-through toolbar". If I want to change my homepage, search page, and other pages back to what I wanted, then C2Media, MPlus, or whoever is the 'sponsor' has NO right adding another toolbar to my computer (for monitoring my habits). Patrick. -- Smile... Someone out there cares deeply for you... "PA Bear" wrote in message ... For those wondering what all the flap is about regarding lop.com, please see the following links: http://www.doxdesk.com/parasite/lop.html http://www.spywareinfo.com/articles/lop/ http://www.spywareinfo.com/newslette...une-2003/3.php (dated, admittedly, but even the current version of MP gives you a "drive by" install of lop.com) What Users Say (Good & Bad) About MP http://www.download.com/3302-2150_4-10320442.html quote 26-Sep-2004 03:22:12 PM "I've used this program for 3 years now." This is awsome software that is now into the third version. I've used it from version 1.2 without any complaintes. it actually runs more stable than msn messenger itself. For all the people who complain about the OPTIONAL sponsor it should just teach you to actually READ the EULA . if you did click to fast it is fully documented on how to remove it. This software would be perfect without the sponsor but then patchou would be living in the street. get over it you selfish people. /quote quote 26-Sep-2004 06:52:12 AM "Sponsor disguised as a EULA to trick people into installing..." Although Patchou and his flock of sheep try to convince people that the sponsor is easily uninstalled, this is not the case for everyone... Yet Patchou and these 'loyal' forum members choose to show nothing but ignorance and arrogance towards anyone who tries to say that uninstalling and reinstalling plus, does NOT remove the sponsor... As a previous beta tester and previous 'loyal' follower of Patchou and this software, I can guarantee that the sponsor does NOT always uninstall without the help of third party software such as Adaware... Patchou now makes enough money from people being 'tricked' into installing the sponsor, that greed has taken over and he no longer cares about the users of his software... Although Plus is a good addon for MSN, I advise people to take particular care when installing so as to avoid the installation of what is definitely spyware... I don't know who you are trying to kid, Patchou, but it is just that...spyware... It is not a toolbar like the google toolbar... It is intrusive and very hard to get rid of... Therefore, it is nothing but spyware... /quote IMO Pachou is to be congratulated for attempting to clarify his relationship with C2 Media (who *still* subtly bury malware in what's called a 'drive by' install) Help with Hijackware http://aumha.org/a/parasite.htm http://aumha.org/a/quickfix.htm http://mvps.org/winhelp2002/unwanted.htm http://inetexplorer.mvps.org/Darnit.htm http://www.mvps.org/sramesh2k/Malware_Defence.htm -- ~PA Bear PA Bear wrote: Enough about the 'End of Free Hotmail' already. Let's dissect Messenger Plus! now... Sandi's take on Messenger Plus! http://inetexplorer.mvps.org/data/messenger_plus.htm Ready, steady, GO! |
#7
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Messenger Plus! - Let's focus on another Sacred Cow for a while
"raceprouk" wrote in message
om... (Reply aimed at Sandi) I'm sorry, but that article is not fully technically accurate, and is also unfair to those of us in the Plus community. If you would like to advise what part of the article you think is not technically accurate, I'm more than happy to investigate. -- _______________________________________ Hyperlinks used to ensure advice is current Sandi - Microsoft MVP since 1999 (IE/OE) http://inetexplorer.mvps.org |
#8
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Messenger Plus! - Let's focus on another Sacred Cow for a while
Firstly, you have to understand the Messenger demographics. Do you really expect a 14-year
old kid in the Netherlands to open a PayPal account, connect to their bank account and send money online for a piece of software? Plus's largest bulk of users are not in North America nor do they own credit cards; how do you expect them to pay? Also, "donation" links rarely get much attention; you either charge for something or you don't. Secondly, Microsoft itself doesn't look too favorably on third-party tools that are making a significant amount of money of their own free software. The whole "legality" of Plus is actually questionable (although the EULA can be interpreted in several ways). Thirdly, there are plenty of "freeware"-like applications that have the same sort of "sponsor" type model, everything from the banner ad within Opera to some FTP tools I've seen. This isn't anything new. Finally, don't believe everything you read. I can find you articles that say iPod's are delivery mechanisms for transporting people into various cults or that Bill Gates is an alien. If you say no to the sponsor, then the sponsor doesn't install; there is absolutely no basis and plenty of work has been done by cynics in the past to disprove this. ____________________________________________ Jonathan Kay Microsoft MVP - MSN Messenger/Windows Messenger Associate Expert http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/ Messenger Resources - http://messenger.jonathankay.com All posts unless otherwise specified are (c) 2004 Jonathan Kay. You *must* contact me for redistribution rights. "Patrick Dickey--MSN Beta Tester" wrote in message ... Hmmm.. interesting.. If it weren't for the 'sponsor' he'd be living in the street. I remember seeing a post about Messenger Plus on one of the anti-spyware sites where Patchou's response was basically "Too bad." Here's a thought that I've seen on a lot of other sites.. PAYPAL. Or StormPay. Your 6 million + members could donate 1 dollar, and you'd never have to work again.. But, that's not an option, right? I liked Messenger Plus BEFORE it installed a bunch of spyware crap on my computer (This was before Patchou stated it in his EULA). I haven't used it since, and I don't recommend it to anyone. Simply because I've seen articles that say where his 'sponsor' is optional, it still installs. Plus, I agree with Sandi about the "Pass-through toolbar". If I want to change my homepage, search page, and other pages back to what I wanted, then C2Media, MPlus, or whoever is the 'sponsor' has NO right adding another toolbar to my computer (for monitoring my habits). Patrick. -- Smile... Someone out there cares deeply for you... "PA Bear" wrote in message ... For those wondering what all the flap is about regarding lop.com, please see the following links: http://www.doxdesk.com/parasite/lop.html http://www.spywareinfo.com/articles/lop/ http://www.spywareinfo.com/newslette...une-2003/3.php (dated, admittedly, but even the current version of MP gives you a "drive by" install of lop.com) What Users Say (Good & Bad) About MP http://www.download.com/3302-2150_4-10320442.html quote 26-Sep-2004 03:22:12 PM "I've used this program for 3 years now." This is awsome software that is now into the third version. I've used it from version 1.2 without any complaintes. it actually runs more stable than msn messenger itself. For all the people who complain about the OPTIONAL sponsor it should just teach you to actually READ the EULA . if you did click to fast it is fully documented on how to remove it. This software would be perfect without the sponsor but then patchou would be living in the street. get over it you selfish people. /quote quote 26-Sep-2004 06:52:12 AM "Sponsor disguised as a EULA to trick people into installing..." Although Patchou and his flock of sheep try to convince people that the sponsor is easily uninstalled, this is not the case for everyone... Yet Patchou and these 'loyal' forum members choose to show nothing but ignorance and arrogance towards anyone who tries to say that uninstalling and reinstalling plus, does NOT remove the sponsor... As a previous beta tester and previous 'loyal' follower of Patchou and this software, I can guarantee that the sponsor does NOT always uninstall without the help of third party software such as Adaware... Patchou now makes enough money from people being 'tricked' into installing the sponsor, that greed has taken over and he no longer cares about the users of his software... Although Plus is a good addon for MSN, I advise people to take particular care when installing so as to avoid the installation of what is definitely spyware... I don't know who you are trying to kid, Patchou, but it is just that...spyware... It is not a toolbar like the google toolbar... It is intrusive and very hard to get rid of... Therefore, it is nothing but spyware... /quote IMO Pachou is to be congratulated for attempting to clarify his relationship with C2 Media (who *still* subtly bury malware in what's called a 'drive by' install) Help with Hijackware http://aumha.org/a/parasite.htm http://aumha.org/a/quickfix.htm http://mvps.org/winhelp2002/unwanted.htm http://inetexplorer.mvps.org/Darnit.htm http://www.mvps.org/sramesh2k/Malware_Defence.htm -- ~PA Bear PA Bear wrote: Enough about the 'End of Free Hotmail' already. Let's dissect Messenger Plus! now... Sandi's take on Messenger Plus! http://inetexplorer.mvps.org/data/messenger_plus.htm Ready, steady, GO! |
#9
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Messenger Plus! - Let's focus on another Sacred Cow for a while
Well Patrick, I'd like to live in your world. Do you honestly think
that I would bundle adware if people were willing to donate for the software? you see, when I see things like "I've seen articles that say where his 'sponsor' is optional, it still installs" it pains me to realise how much false information can be distributed on the net, and you're contributing to it by posting it again on this news post. If you actually read the last post I made in this thread, you would probably not write such things. But hey, it's so easy to hit on Patchou-the-bad-guy isn't it? you accuse forum members to be children, yet, what I see here is childish complains disconnected from reality. Anyone who actually bothers to read my replies can easily realise that I'm just doing my best to satisfy my users, why can't you see that? I'm not sure I would be so proud to have that kind of support Sandy, it's just too easy to bad-mouth without trying to understand. Of course, here we go again with the quote game, taking things out of context, spreading rumors about stuff I would have said on one post one day.. aren't you tired after all that time? don't you think enough is enough? If you don't want to read my replies, fine, I won't bother to reply again, but don't go and say that I don't care about my users because I certainely care about them more than you care about giving objective information to your readers. Patchou "Patrick Dickey--MSN Beta Tester" wrote in message ... Hmmm.. interesting.. If it weren't for the 'sponsor' he'd be living in the street. I remember seeing a post about Messenger Plus on one of the anti-spyware sites where Patchou's response was basically "Too bad." Here's a thought that I've seen on a lot of other sites.. PAYPAL. Or StormPay. Your 6 million + members could donate 1 dollar, and you'd never have to work again.. But, that's not an option, right? I liked Messenger Plus BEFORE it installed a bunch of spyware crap on my computer (This was before Patchou stated it in his EULA). I haven't used it since, and I don't recommend it to anyone. Simply because I've seen articles that say where his 'sponsor' is optional, it still installs. Plus, I agree with Sandi about the "Pass-through toolbar". If I want to change my homepage, search page, and other pages back to what I wanted, then C2Media, MPlus, or whoever is the 'sponsor' has NO right adding another toolbar to my computer (for monitoring my habits). Patrick. |
#10
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Messenger Plus! - Let's focus on another Sacred Cow for a while
Thank you, Jonathan! I was hoping to drag you into this, er..., discussion.
-- ~Robear Dyer (PA Bear) MS MVP-Windows (IE/OE) Jonathan Kay [MVP] wrote: Firstly, you have to understand the Messenger demographics. Do you really expect a 14-year old kid in the Netherlands to open a PayPal account, connect to their bank account and send money online for a piece of software? Plus's largest bulk of users are not in North America nor do they own credit cards; how do you expect them to pay? Also, "donation" links rarely get much attention; you either charge for something or you don't. Secondly, Microsoft itself doesn't look too favorably on third-party tools that are making a significant amount of money of their own free software. The whole "legality" of Plus is actually questionable (although the EULA can be interpreted in several ways). Thirdly, there are plenty of "freeware"-like applications that have the same sort of "sponsor" type model, everything from the banner ad within Opera to some FTP tools I've seen. This isn't anything new. Finally, don't believe everything you read. I can find you articles that say iPod's are delivery mechanisms for transporting people into various cults or that Bill Gates is an alien. If you say no to the sponsor, then the sponsor doesn't install; there is absolutely no basis and plenty of work has been done by cynics in the past to disprove this. ____________________________________________ Jonathan Kay Microsoft MVP - MSN Messenger/Windows Messenger Associate Expert http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/ Messenger Resources - http://messenger.jonathankay.com All posts unless otherwise specified are (c) 2004 Jonathan Kay. You *must* contact me for redistribution rights. "Patrick Dickey--MSN Beta Tester" wrote in message ... Hmmm.. interesting.. If it weren't for the 'sponsor' he'd be living in the street. I remember seeing a post about Messenger Plus on one of the anti-spyware sites where Patchou's response was basically "Too bad." Here's a thought that I've seen on a lot of other sites.. PAYPAL. Or StormPay. Your 6 million + members could donate 1 dollar, and you'd never have to work again.. But, that's not an option, right? I liked Messenger Plus BEFORE it installed a bunch of spyware crap on my computer (This was before Patchou stated it in his EULA). I haven't used it since, and I don't recommend it to anyone. Simply because I've seen articles that say where his 'sponsor' is optional, it still installs. Plus, I agree with Sandi about the "Pass-through toolbar". If I want to change my homepage, search page, and other pages back to what I wanted, then C2Media, MPlus, or whoever is the 'sponsor' has NO right adding another toolbar to my computer (for monitoring my habits). Patrick. -- Smile... Someone out there cares deeply for you... "PA Bear" wrote in message ... For those wondering what all the flap is about regarding lop.com, please see the following links: http://www.doxdesk.com/parasite/lop.html http://www.spywareinfo.com/articles/lop/ http://www.spywareinfo.com/newslette...une-2003/3.php (dated, admittedly, but even the current version of MP gives you a "drive by" install of lop.com) What Users Say (Good & Bad) About MP http://www.download.com/3302-2150_4-10320442.html quote 26-Sep-2004 03:22:12 PM "I've used this program for 3 years now." This is awsome software that is now into the third version. I've used it from version 1.2 without any complaintes. it actually runs more stable than msn messenger itself. For all the people who complain about the OPTIONAL sponsor it should just teach you to actually READ the EULA . if you did click to fast it is fully documented on how to remove it. This software would be perfect without the sponsor but then patchou would be living in the street. get over it you selfish people. /quote quote 26-Sep-2004 06:52:12 AM "Sponsor disguised as a EULA to trick people into installing..." Although Patchou and his flock of sheep try to convince people that the sponsor is easily uninstalled, this is not the case for everyone... Yet Patchou and these 'loyal' forum members choose to show nothing but ignorance and arrogance towards anyone who tries to say that uninstalling and reinstalling plus, does NOT remove the sponsor... As a previous beta tester and previous 'loyal' follower of Patchou and this software, I can guarantee that the sponsor does NOT always uninstall without the help of third party software such as Adaware... Patchou now makes enough money from people being 'tricked' into installing the sponsor, that greed has taken over and he no longer cares about the users of his software... Although Plus is a good addon for MSN, I advise people to take particular care when installing so as to avoid the installation of what is definitely spyware... I don't know who you are trying to kid, Patchou, but it is just that...spyware... It is not a toolbar like the google toolbar... It is intrusive and very hard to get rid of... Therefore, it is nothing but spyware... /quote IMO Pachou is to be congratulated for attempting to clarify his relationship with C2 Media (who *still* subtly bury malware in what's called a 'drive by' install) Help with Hijackware http://aumha.org/a/parasite.htm http://aumha.org/a/quickfix.htm http://mvps.org/winhelp2002/unwanted.htm http://inetexplorer.mvps.org/Darnit.htm http://www.mvps.org/sramesh2k/Malware_Defence.htm -- ~PA Bear PA Bear wrote: Enough about the 'End of Free Hotmail' already. Let's dissect Messenger Plus! now... Sandi's take on Messenger Plus! http://inetexplorer.mvps.org/data/messenger_plus.htm Ready, steady, GO! |
#11
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Messenger Plus! - Let's focus on another Sacred Cow for a while
=)
I think it is an important discussion topic simply because of all the misinformation about it. However, one thing I forgot to mention is that no one is forcing anyone else to use Plus -- I know plenty of people that refuse to use Plus for this and other reasons. ____________________________________________ Jonathan Kay Microsoft MVP - MSN Messenger/Windows Messenger Associate Expert http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/ Messenger Resources - http://messenger.jonathankay.com All posts unless otherwise specified are (c) 2004 Jonathan Kay. You *must* contact me for redistribution rights. "PA Bear" wrote in message ... Thank you, Jonathan! I was hoping to drag you into this, er..., discussion. -- ~Robear Dyer (PA Bear) MS MVP-Windows (IE/OE) Jonathan Kay [MVP] wrote: Firstly, you have to understand the Messenger demographics. Do you really expect a 14-year old kid in the Netherlands to open a PayPal account, connect to their bank account and send money online for a piece of software? Plus's largest bulk of users are not in North America nor do they own credit cards; how do you expect them to pay? Also, "donation" links rarely get much attention; you either charge for something or you don't. Secondly, Microsoft itself doesn't look too favorably on third-party tools that are making a significant amount of money of their own free software. The whole "legality" of Plus is actually questionable (although the EULA can be interpreted in several ways). Thirdly, there are plenty of "freeware"-like applications that have the same sort of "sponsor" type model, everything from the banner ad within Opera to some FTP tools I've seen. This isn't anything new. Finally, don't believe everything you read. I can find you articles that say iPod's are delivery mechanisms for transporting people into various cults or that Bill Gates is an alien. If you say no to the sponsor, then the sponsor doesn't install; there is absolutely no basis and plenty of work has been done by cynics in the past to disprove this. ____________________________________________ Jonathan Kay Microsoft MVP - MSN Messenger/Windows Messenger Associate Expert http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/ Messenger Resources - http://messenger.jonathankay.com All posts unless otherwise specified are (c) 2004 Jonathan Kay. You *must* contact me for redistribution rights. "Patrick Dickey--MSN Beta Tester" wrote in message ... Hmmm.. interesting.. If it weren't for the 'sponsor' he'd be living in the street. I remember seeing a post about Messenger Plus on one of the anti-spyware sites where Patchou's response was basically "Too bad." Here's a thought that I've seen on a lot of other sites.. PAYPAL. Or StormPay. Your 6 million + members could donate 1 dollar, and you'd never have to work again.. But, that's not an option, right? I liked Messenger Plus BEFORE it installed a bunch of spyware crap on my computer (This was before Patchou stated it in his EULA). I haven't used it since, and I don't recommend it to anyone. Simply because I've seen articles that say where his 'sponsor' is optional, it still installs. Plus, I agree with Sandi about the "Pass-through toolbar". If I want to change my homepage, search page, and other pages back to what I wanted, then C2Media, MPlus, or whoever is the 'sponsor' has NO right adding another toolbar to my computer (for monitoring my habits). Patrick. -- Smile... Someone out there cares deeply for you... "PA Bear" wrote in message ... For those wondering what all the flap is about regarding lop.com, please see the following links: http://www.doxdesk.com/parasite/lop.html http://www.spywareinfo.com/articles/lop/ http://www.spywareinfo.com/newslette...une-2003/3.php (dated, admittedly, but even the current version of MP gives you a "drive by" install of lop.com) What Users Say (Good & Bad) About MP http://www.download.com/3302-2150_4-10320442.html quote 26-Sep-2004 03:22:12 PM "I've used this program for 3 years now." This is awsome software that is now into the third version. I've used it from version 1.2 without any complaintes. it actually runs more stable than msn messenger itself. For all the people who complain about the OPTIONAL sponsor it should just teach you to actually READ the EULA . if you did click to fast it is fully documented on how to remove it. This software would be perfect without the sponsor but then patchou would be living in the street. get over it you selfish people. /quote quote 26-Sep-2004 06:52:12 AM "Sponsor disguised as a EULA to trick people into installing..." Although Patchou and his flock of sheep try to convince people that the sponsor is easily uninstalled, this is not the case for everyone... Yet Patchou and these 'loyal' forum members choose to show nothing but ignorance and arrogance towards anyone who tries to say that uninstalling and reinstalling plus, does NOT remove the sponsor... As a previous beta tester and previous 'loyal' follower of Patchou and this software, I can guarantee that the sponsor does NOT always uninstall without the help of third party software such as Adaware... Patchou now makes enough money from people being 'tricked' into installing the sponsor, that greed has taken over and he no longer cares about the users of his software... Although Plus is a good addon for MSN, I advise people to take particular care when installing so as to avoid the installation of what is definitely spyware... I don't know who you are trying to kid, Patchou, but it is just that...spyware... It is not a toolbar like the google toolbar... It is intrusive and very hard to get rid of... Therefore, it is nothing but spyware... /quote IMO Pachou is to be congratulated for attempting to clarify his relationship with C2 Media (who *still* subtly bury malware in what's called a 'drive by' install) Help with Hijackware http://aumha.org/a/parasite.htm http://aumha.org/a/quickfix.htm http://mvps.org/winhelp2002/unwanted.htm http://inetexplorer.mvps.org/Darnit.htm http://www.mvps.org/sramesh2k/Malware_Defence.htm -- ~PA Bear PA Bear wrote: Enough about the 'End of Free Hotmail' already. Let's dissect Messenger Plus! now... Sandi's take on Messenger Plus! http://inetexplorer.mvps.org/data/messenger_plus.htm Ready, steady, GO! |
#12
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Messenger Plus! - Let's focus on another Sacred Cow for a while
Ok, first of all, I want to clarify something. I didn't say that your
program wasn't worthwhile. In fact, I've recommended in other news groups that MSN should incorporate some of the features that you provide. I did, however, say that I don't recommend it to anyone BECAUSE of the spyware ("Sponsor"). If people ask me about it, I warn them that the spyware is an issue. I wasn't sure if I would even post in here the first time, until I read two things. The quote on Sandi's site about " yes, it could be redesigned to warn you better but then, nobody would install it, let's be honest" and the quote in PA Bear's reply that says "without the sponsor but then patchou would be living in the street". Since, you are committed to your users, may I give you a couple of suggestions? (Hoping you'll read these). If you're not going to drop the sponsor, then give people three options. One is no sponsor, nothing... One is no sponsor( (in the sense of shortcuts, toolbars, and pop up ads), but then at the bottom of the messenger window (or somewhere in the window), they will have an ad banner. They don't have to click on that, it's not targeted, just whatever ad the sponsor or whomever decides that ALL Messenger Plus people will get at that moment.. Or, they can choose to install the sponsor with the popups, shortcuts, and the toolbars.. Just so everyone's clear, I realize that the second option may not be feasible since it's MSN's Messenger program and not Patchou's.. But, it's still an idea. As for my earlier post about making donations, it works for other sites. And, you are respected enough in the Messenger world (as it may be) that people would donate if they can. Another option would be an affiliation page with a company such as element5. I would imagine that people would buy a program through your page, if they were looking for it. Just because of your status where Messenger Plus is concerned. (Meaning, they would be more apt to purchase the program through your affiliation, then say through mine). And yes, I realize that you may have considered all of these options. If so, then forgive me for bringing them back up again. Finally, I also want to clarify one more paragraph in my earlier post. I had downloaded Messenger Plus before you started to include the "Sponsor". One day, I got a notice saying there was an update to Messenger Plus.. So, I updated. And, a bunch of shortcuts appeared on my desktop. When I went to uninstall them, the window showed that Messenger Plus installed them.. So, I uninstalled MPlus as well. This was BEFORE the version where you started to inform people that they could opt out of installing the sponsor. Patrick. -- Smile... Someone out there cares deeply for you... "Patchou" wrote in message om... Well Patrick, I'd like to live in your world. Do you honestly think that I would bundle adware if people were willing to donate for the software? you see, when I see things like "I've seen articles that say where his 'sponsor' is optional, it still installs" it pains me to realise how much false information can be distributed on the net, and you're contributing to it by posting it again on this news post. If you actually read the last post I made in this thread, you would probably not write such things. But hey, it's so easy to hit on Patchou-the-bad-guy isn't it? you accuse forum members to be children, yet, what I see here is childish complains disconnected from reality. Anyone who actually bothers to read my replies can easily realise that I'm just doing my best to satisfy my users, why can't you see that? I'm not sure I would be so proud to have that kind of support Sandy, it's just too easy to bad-mouth without trying to understand. Of course, here we go again with the quote game, taking things out of context, spreading rumors about stuff I would have said on one post one day.. aren't you tired after all that time? don't you think enough is enough? If you don't want to read my replies, fine, I won't bother to reply again, but don't go and say that I don't care about my users because I certainely care about them more than you care about giving objective information to your readers. Patchou "Patrick Dickey--MSN Beta Tester" wrote in message ... Hmmm.. interesting.. If it weren't for the 'sponsor' he'd be living in the street. I remember seeing a post about Messenger Plus on one of the anti-spyware sites where Patchou's response was basically "Too bad." Here's a thought that I've seen on a lot of other sites.. PAYPAL. Or StormPay. Your 6 million + members could donate 1 dollar, and you'd never have to work again.. But, that's not an option, right? I liked Messenger Plus BEFORE it installed a bunch of spyware crap on my computer (This was before Patchou stated it in his EULA). I haven't used it since, and I don't recommend it to anyone. Simply because I've seen articles that say where his 'sponsor' is optional, it still installs. Plus, I agree with Sandi about the "Pass-through toolbar". If I want to change my homepage, search page, and other pages back to what I wanted, then C2Media, MPlus, or whoever is the 'sponsor' has NO right adding another toolbar to my computer (for monitoring my habits). Patrick. |
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Messenger Plus! - Let's focus on another Sacred Cow for a while
Thank you for the flame-free reply Patrick, that's a batter way to
start the day . Well, first, regarding me living on the street, I never said such a thing. However, it is true that Messenger Plus! is also my job now and that the sponsor is the only thing that brings food to the table every month. That being said, as you saw in a quote fSandy'Sarticle, I realise that the agreement window could be redesignedand that's why I've been working on it in the past couple of days. Thechanges will be tested this weekend and the final new look for the agreement window will be part of version 3.25 (released soon after 3.21). Donations don't work, I've tried them for more than a year. I really don't know many site that work liek this and I serioucly doubt any site with moderate importance can survive with donations only. Also, you have to make the difference between paying for a site to stay alive, and paying for a site and a job. I also want to clarify something: I NEVER forced the sponsor on anyone's computer. It is true that while I was testing C2Media's packge last year, the agreement window had been quickly included in the setup and you could install the sponsor without realizing it. However, I never installed it silently on anyone's computer, ever. You can continue to warn your friends about the sponsor, it never bothered me to ee the warnign on many sites (athough I find it too much when the only screenshot I see on ZDNet is the agreement window with "I refuse" checked ). Again, the only thing that bothers me is articles focused on destroying my software's reputation, without any regard for the real facts (or their real signification). And Sandy, why don't you stop updating your article to post your answers and start posting them in your own newsgroup thread? it's way too easy to post a quote of ONE reply you got, making it sound like if it was the only thing you got. Why not posting my own replies then? quoting is an exercise you seem to love as long as it's in your own advantage. I think you are being very impolite and I thought you would have shown more intelligence and respect toward your peers. What do you think your reaction would be if I posted a nes on msgplus.net saying all kinds of bad stuff about you, quoting you everytime possible to make you sound like a horrible person and then, instead of replying to your posts, just updating my article to make you sound even more like a fool? This is no attitude for an MVP. Patchou "Patrick Dickey--MSN Beta Tester" wrote in message ... Ok, first of all, I want to clarify something. I didn't say that your program wasn't worthwhile. In fact, I've recommended in other news groups that MSN should incorporate some of the features that you provide. I did, however, say that I don't recommend it to anyone BECAUSE of the spyware ("Sponsor"). If people ask me about it, I warn them that the spyware is an issue. I wasn't sure if I would even post in here the first time, until I read two things. The quote on Sandi's site about " yes, it could be redesigned to warn you better but then, nobody would install it, let's be honest" and the quote in PA Bear's reply that says "without the sponsor but then patchou would be living in the street". Since, you are committed to your users, may I give you a couple of suggestions? (Hoping you'll read these). If you're not going to drop the sponsor, then give people three options. One is no sponsor, nothing... One is no sponsor( (in the sense of shortcuts, toolbars, and pop up ads), but then at the bottom of the messenger window (or somewhere in the window), they will have an ad banner. They don't have to click on that, it's not targeted, just whatever ad the sponsor or whomever decides that ALL Messenger Plus people will get at that moment.. Or, they can choose to install the sponsor with the popups, shortcuts, and the toolbars.. Just so everyone's clear, I realize that the second option may not be feasible since it's MSN's Messenger program and not Patchou's.. But, it's still an idea. As for my earlier post about making donations, it works for other sites. And, you are respected enough in the Messenger world (as it may be) that people would donate if they can. Another option would be an affiliation page with a company such as element5. I would imagine that people would buy a program through your page, if they were looking for it. Just because of your status where Messenger Plus is concerned. (Meaning, they would be more apt to purchase the program through your affiliation, then say through mine). And yes, I realize that you may have considered all of these options. If so, then forgive me for bringing them back up again. Finally, I also want to clarify one more paragraph in my earlier post. I had downloaded Messenger Plus before you started to include the "Sponsor". One day, I got a notice saying there was an update to Messenger Plus.. So, I updated. And, a bunch of shortcuts appeared on my desktop. When I went to uninstall them, the window showed that Messenger Plus installed them.. So, I uninstalled MPlus as well. This was BEFORE the version where you started to inform people that they could opt out of installing the sponsor. Patrick. -- Smile... Someone out there cares deeply for you... "Patchou" wrote in message om... Well Patrick, I'd like to live in your world. Do you honestly think that I would bundle adware if people were willing to donate for the software? you see, when I see things like "I've seen articles that say where his 'sponsor' is optional, it still installs" it pains me to realise how much false information can be distributed on the net, and you're contributing to it by posting it again on this news post. If you actually read the last post I made in this thread, you would probably not write such things. But hey, it's so easy to hit on Patchou-the-bad-guy isn't it? you accuse forum members to be children, yet, what I see here is childish complains disconnected from reality. Anyone who actually bothers to read my replies can easily realise that I'm just doing my best to satisfy my users, why can't you see that? I'm not sure I would be so proud to have that kind of support Sandy, it's just too easy to bad-mouth without trying to understand. Of course, here we go again with the quote game, taking things out of context, spreading rumors about stuff I would have said on one post one day.. aren't you tired after all that time? don't you think enough is enough? If you don't want to read my replies, fine, I won't bother to reply again, but don't go and say that I don't care about my users because I certainely care about them more than you care about giving objective information to your readers. Patchou "Patrick Dickey--MSN Beta Tester" wrote in message ... Hmmm.. interesting.. If it weren't for the 'sponsor' he'd be living in the street. I remember seeing a post about Messenger Plus on one of the anti-spyware sites where Patchou's response was basically "Too bad." Here's a thought that I've seen on a lot of other sites.. PAYPAL. Or StormPay. Your 6 million + members could donate 1 dollar, and you'd never have to work again.. But, that's not an option, right? I liked Messenger Plus BEFORE it installed a bunch of spyware crap on my computer (This was before Patchou stated it in his EULA). I haven't used it since, and I don't recommend it to anyone. Simply because I've seen articles that say where his 'sponsor' is optional, it still installs. Plus, I agree with Sandi about the "Pass-through toolbar". If I want to change my homepage, search page, and other pages back to what I wanted, then C2Media, MPlus, or whoever is the 'sponsor' has NO right adding another toolbar to my computer (for monitoring my habits). Patrick. |
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Messenger Plus! - Let's focus on another Sacred Cow for a while
"PA Bear" wrote in message ... I'm not replying directly to you, yours is just the post I landed on when I hit "Reply Group". I have been using MsgPlus since Jan 2003 (Pre C2Media) by a friend of mine. The features that MsgPlus provided to the average Messenger user were great, and Patchou has gone out of his way to add more features and improve the GUI so that more people can use these features even easier. I do not install the sponsor on my home PC as it is also the main home PC that my kids have access to. While I do not doubt Patchou's word about having the C2Media installer cut right down to keep as much of the 'usual' stuff out of it, I don't trust my kids (7yr, 5yr & 4yr) not to click on something that appears on screen if my back is turned for 5 seconds. Since C2Media has come onboard with Patchou I have always installed the sponsor program on my initial install, then removed MsgPlus and reinstalled it without the sponsor, and I have had no problems whatsoever with everything being removed from my fave list and my homepage being put back to rights. Below is a post I made to the MsgPlus boards. === You've got my vote Patchou. I've just had people on a game website messageboard giving MsgPlus a slammin, so I jumped in and corrected them about the optional sponsor, etc... This project makes Messenger worth using. If we waited for M$ to come out with the same level or quality of features on their own, I know that I for one would be old and grey before that would even happen. I freely and openly offer a mirror download link for your program of every release since just before MP2! (IIRC), & there is nothing I can read that will convince me that I am helping a "software criminal". Keep up the work, try to let these attacks against your person pass you by, and be the bigger and better man by rising above the level of these ignorant bigots that wish to attack you and your work. How many people install Kazaa, yet don't complain about the amount of garbage it forcibly installs onto a computer? I wonder how many of their userbase have written nasty emails with personal scathing attacks against the software creator, etc...! Plus gives people the option of a sponsor package being installed, yet Patchou gets branded as worse than Satan because of it. Gimme a break! |
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Messenger Plus! - Let's focus on another Sacred Cow for a while
I'm with you 1000% Brian, Good work Patchou.
-- Earl "Brian!" wrote in message . .. "PA Bear" wrote in message ... I'm not replying directly to you, yours is just the post I landed on when I hit "Reply Group". I have been using MsgPlus since Jan 2003 (Pre C2Media) by a friend of mine. The features that MsgPlus provided to the average Messenger user were great, and Patchou has gone out of his way to add more features and improve the GUI so that more people can use these features even easier. I do not install the sponsor on my home PC as it is also the main home PC that my kids have access to. While I do not doubt Patchou's word about having the C2Media installer cut right down to keep as much of the 'usual' stuff out of it, I don't trust my kids (7yr, 5yr & 4yr) not to click on something that appears on screen if my back is turned for 5 seconds. Since C2Media has come onboard with Patchou I have always installed the sponsor program on my initial install, then removed MsgPlus and reinstalled it without the sponsor, and I have had no problems whatsoever with everything being removed from my fave list and my homepage being put back to rights. Below is a post I made to the MsgPlus boards. === You've got my vote Patchou. I've just had people on a game website messageboard giving MsgPlus a slammin, so I jumped in and corrected them about the optional sponsor, etc... This project makes Messenger worth using. If we waited for M$ to come out with the same level or quality of features on their own, I know that I for one would be old and grey before that would even happen. I freely and openly offer a mirror download link for your program of every release since just before MP2! (IIRC), & there is nothing I can read that will convince me that I am helping a "software criminal". Keep up the work, try to let these attacks against your person pass you by, and be the bigger and better man by rising above the level of these ignorant bigots that wish to attack you and your work. How many people install Kazaa, yet don't complain about the amount of garbage it forcibly installs onto a computer? I wonder how many of their userbase have written nasty emails with personal scathing attacks against the software creator, etc...! Plus gives people the option of a sponsor package being installed, yet Patchou gets branded as worse than Satan because of it. Gimme a break! |
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