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Power line splitter



 
 
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  #1  
Old June 7th 18, 12:38 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Ed Cryer
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,621
Default Power line splitter

I've googled for this, and got mixed advice. So I turn to the
experienced people in this group who've probably done this many times.
I want to add an internal HD. I have a bundle of wires coming from the
PSU; one of them has a female Molex plug on it, and a line with male
converter goes to the existing HD.
Can I change this to a split line, and use the second line for the new HD?

This splitter
https://goo.gl/Gt58ri

Ed
Ads
  #2  
Old June 7th 18, 12:56 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Andy Burns[_6_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,318
Default Power line splitter

Ed Cryer wrote:

I want to add an internal HD. I have a bundle of wires coming from the
PSU; one of them has a female Molex plug on it, and a line with male
converter goes to the existing HD.
Can I change this to a split line, and use the second line for the new HD?


Your PSU is almost certain to have enough capacity to stand one extra
drive, obviously if you took it to the nth degree and kept splitting,
and splitting it would overload at some point.
  #3  
Old June 7th 18, 12:59 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
SC Tom[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,089
Default Power line splitter



"Ed Cryer" wrote in message
news
I've googled for this, and got mixed advice. So I turn to the experienced
people in this group who've probably done this many times.
I want to add an internal HD. I have a bundle of wires coming from the
PSU; one of them has a female Molex plug on it, and a line with male
converter goes to the existing HD.
Can I change this to a split line, and use the second line for the new HD?

This splitter
https://goo.gl/Gt58ri

Ed


Can't think of any reason why not, unless you have a bare-minimum power
supply.
I've used similar splitters for SATA and IDE drives (most recently on a
Lenovo that didn't have enough connectors for 2 HDDs and a DVD drive).
--

SC Tom


  #4  
Old June 7th 18, 01:16 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
slate_leeper
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 245
Default Power line splitter

On Thu, 7 Jun 2018 12:38:08 +0100, Ed Cryer
wrote:

I've googled for this, and got mixed advice. So I turn to the
experienced people in this group who've probably done this many times.
I want to add an internal HD. I have a bundle of wires coming from the
PSU; one of them has a female Molex plug on it, and a line with male
converter goes to the existing HD.
Can I change this to a split line, and use the second line for the new HD?


Been there, done that. Worked fine.


--
Someone who thinks logically provides
a nice contrast to the real world.
(Anonymous)
  #5  
Old June 7th 18, 07:35 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,873
Default Power line splitter

Ed Cryer wrote:
I've googled for this, and got mixed advice. So I turn to the
experienced people in this group who've probably done this many times.
I want to add an internal HD. I have a bundle of wires coming from the
PSU; one of them has a female Molex plug on it, and a line with male
converter goes to the existing HD.
Can I change this to a split line, and use the second line for the new HD?

This splitter
https://goo.gl/Gt58ri

Ed


If you need to build a "tree" off one
cable, and need a large fanout, you should use
Molex to Molex Y cables for the initial fan.
The idea here, is this might resist burnt
connectors a slight bit better than using SATA.

Molex ------ Molex -------- Molex ---- SATA 15p
\ \_______ Molex ---- SATA 15p
\____ Molex ________ Molex ---- SATA 15p
\
-------- Molex ---- SATA 15p

Using Molex to SATA Y as you propose, is perfectly
good for *direct* usage, because the SATA is on the
end of the run when doing this. If the loom had
three Molex on it, you could power six SATA this
way, but running six HDD off one cable would
likely be a mistake. The connectors won't burn
in this picture, but the drive at the bottom could
be getting close to the 11V voltage mark. At some
point, the skimpy cabling on modern PSUs, has
too much voltage drop.

12V |
| -------
+- Molex ------ SATA 15p ^
| \ |
v \____ SATA 15p |
| 4 drives is probably "enough"
+- Molex ------ SATA 15p |
| \ |
v \____ SATA 15p v
| -------
+- Molex ------ SATA 15p
~11V \ --- Check for voltage drop if
\____ SATA 15p adding too many...

The thing to be avoided, is chaining a bunch of
SATAs in a row. If you find a male SATA to two female
SATA, then that would be an "ampacity fail" in terms
of a design. SATA has a 3 amp limit, and some SATAs
on the left could end up carrying more than that. The DC
peak current on hard drives is actually a bit variable,
and not all that easy to predict (short of finding
the detailed drive spec sheet that has an
actual oscilloscope trace).

SATA ------ SATA -------- SATA ---- SATA 15p
\ \_______ SATA ---- SATA 15p
\____ SATA ________ SATA ---- SATA 15p
\
-------- SATA ---- SATA 15p

Molex has a 6 to 10 amp limit, partially influenced
by the wire gauge crimped into the connector,
partially influenced by how many pins are next
to one another. I might split the difference
and claim it can carry 8 amps or so - but I have
had a Molex "burn" with only 5.5 amps or so (video
card). If a Molex works itself loose, so the
connection becomes bad, that's how it burns.
Actual authentic Molex brand would never do that
(they have extremely high insertion force), while
all the knockoffs don't have nearly the same
insertion/retention characteristic.

The loom can use various gauges of wire. From
little surprises I've received here, around four
drives running off a single cable run from the
PSU is about the limit. At some point, there
is too much DC voltage drop along the cable.
You might need to use three or four Y's in a
row, to encourage "bad electrical hygiene" when
dealing with HDD loads.

Hard drives have two voltage sensors. The drive
is not put in running order, until the 12V wire
reaches a bit more than 11V.

If the wire is beginning to "sag" under the load,
the DC voltage gets uncomfortably close to 11V.
The HDD senses this, and thinks the power has
just come on. It resets the drive in the middle
of what you were doing. This is... not good.
I've had a drive here go into a "reset loop"
where it keeps spinning up, over and over again,
and sloppy Y cable use was the root cause.
This doesn't seem to hurt the drive, so that's
not an issue.

If that happens, re-distribute the drive electrical
loads on two cable runs from the PSU, rather than
continuing to run all those drives off one
originating cable run.

The run I had trouble with, was powering both
hard drives and fans. The fans don't draw
too much current, but they encourage making
the "chain" of molex Y cables too long. Then,
sticking a hard drive on the very end one,
gets you below 11V again.

With a little common sense, you shouldn't
have a problem.

Paul
  #6  
Old June 7th 18, 07:52 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Ed Cryer
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,621
Default Power line splitter

Paul wrote:
Ed Cryer wrote:
I've googled for this, and got mixed advice. So I turn to the
experienced people in this group who've probably done this many times.
I want to add an internal HD. I have a bundle of wires coming from the
PSU; one of them has a female Molex plug on it, and a line with male
converter goes to the existing HD.
Can I change this to a split line, and use the second line for the new
HD?

This splitter
https://goo.gl/Gt58ri

Ed


If you need to build a "tree" off one
cable, and need a large fanout, you should use
Molex to Molex Y cables for the initial fan.
The idea here, is this might resist burnt
connectors a slight bit better than using SATA.

Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Molex ------ Molex -------- Molex ---- SATA 15p
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* \Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* \_______ Molex ---- SATA 15p
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* \____ Molex ________ Molex ---- SATA 15p
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* \
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Â* -------- Molex ---- SATA 15p

Using Molex to SATA Y as you propose, is perfectly
good for *direct* usage, because the SATA is on the
end of the run when doing this. If the loom had
three Molex on it, you could power six SATA this
way, but running six HDD off one cable would
likely be a mistake. The connectors won't burn
in this picture, but the drive at the bottom could
be getting close to the 11V voltage mark. At some
point, the skimpy cabling on modern PSUs, has
too much voltage drop.

Â*12V |
Â*Â*Â*Â* |Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* -------
Â*Â*Â*Â* +- Molex ------ SATA 15pÂ*Â*Â*Â* ^
Â*Â*Â*Â* |Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* \Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* |
Â*Â*Â*Â* vÂ*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* \____ SATA 15pÂ*Â*Â*Â* |
Â*Â*Â*Â* |Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â * 4 drives is probably "enough"
Â*Â*Â*Â* +- Molex ------ SATA 15pÂ*Â*Â*Â* |
Â*Â*Â*Â* |Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* \Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* |
Â*Â*Â*Â* vÂ*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* \____ SATA 15pÂ*Â*Â*Â* v
Â*Â*Â*Â* |Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* -------
Â*Â*Â*Â* +- Molex ------ SATA 15p
Â*~11VÂ*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* \Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* --- Check for voltage drop if
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* \____ SATA 15pÂ*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* adding too many...

The thing to be avoided, is chaining a bunch of
SATAs in a row. If you find a male SATA to two female
SATA, then that would be an "ampacity fail" in terms
of a design. SATA has a 3 amp limit, and some SATAs
on the left could end up carrying more than that. The DC
peak current on hard drives is actually a bit variable,
and not all that easy to predict (short of finding
the detailed drive spec sheet that has an
actual oscilloscope trace).

Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* SATAÂ* ------ SATAÂ* -------- SATAÂ* ---- SATA 15p
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* \Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* \_______ SATAÂ* ---- SATA 15p
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* \____ SATAÂ* ________ SATAÂ* ---- SATA 15p
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* \
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Â* -------- SATAÂ* ---- SATA 15p

Molex has a 6 to 10 amp limit, partially influenced
by the wire gauge crimped into the connector,
partially influenced by how many pins are next
to one another. I might split the difference
and claim it can carry 8 amps or so - but I have
had a Molex "burn" with only 5.5 amps or so (video
card). If a Molex works itself loose, so the
connection becomes bad, that's how it burns.
Actual authentic Molex brand would never do that
(they have extremely high insertion force), while
all the knockoffs don't have nearly the same
insertion/retention characteristic.

The loom can use various gauges of wire. From
little surprises I've received here, around four
drives running off a single cable run from the
PSU is about the limit. At some point, there
is too much DC voltage drop along the cable.
You might need to use three or four Y's in a
row, to encourage "bad electrical hygiene" when
dealing with HDD loads.

Hard drives have two voltage sensors. The drive
is not put in running order, until the 12V wire
reaches a bit more than 11V.

If the wire is beginning to "sag" under the load,
the DC voltage gets uncomfortably close to 11V.
The HDD senses this, and thinks the power has
just come on. It resets the drive in the middle
of what you were doing. This is... not good.
I've had a drive here go into a "reset loop"
where it keeps spinning up, over and over again,
and sloppy Y cable use was the root cause.
This doesn't seem to hurt the drive, so that's
not an issue.

If that happens, re-distribute the drive electrical
loads on two cable runs from the PSU, rather than
continuing to run all those drives off one
originating cable run.

The run I had trouble with, was powering both
hard drives and fans. The fans don't draw
too much current, but they encourage making
the "chain" of molex Y cables too long. Then,
sticking a hard drive on the very end one,
gets you below 11V again.

With a little common sense, you shouldn't
have a problem.

Â*Â* Paul



Thanks to all who replied. I knew you wouldn't let me down.
Experience and having-done-it is the best teacher.

Ed

  #7  
Old June 7th 18, 09:27 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Ed Cryer
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,621
Default Power line splitter

Paul wrote:
Ed Cryer wrote:
I've googled for this, and got mixed advice. So I turn to the
experienced people in this group who've probably done this many times.
I want to add an internal HD. I have a bundle of wires coming from the
PSU; one of them has a female Molex plug on it, and a line with male
converter goes to the existing HD.
Can I change this to a split line, and use the second line for the new
HD?

This splitter
https://goo.gl/Gt58ri

Ed


If you need to build a "tree" off one
cable, and need a large fanout, you should use
Molex to Molex Y cables for the initial fan.
The idea here, is this might resist burnt
connectors a slight bit better than using SATA.

Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Molex ------ Molex -------- Molex ---- SATA 15p
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* \Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* \_______ Molex ---- SATA 15p
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* \____ Molex ________ Molex ---- SATA 15p
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* \
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Â* -------- Molex ---- SATA 15p

Using Molex to SATA Y as you propose, is perfectly
good for *direct* usage, because the SATA is on the
end of the run when doing this. If the loom had
three Molex on it, you could power six SATA this
way, but running six HDD off one cable would
likely be a mistake. The connectors won't burn
in this picture, but the drive at the bottom could
be getting close to the 11V voltage mark. At some
point, the skimpy cabling on modern PSUs, has
too much voltage drop.

Â*12V |
Â*Â*Â*Â* |Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* -------
Â*Â*Â*Â* +- Molex ------ SATA 15pÂ*Â*Â*Â* ^
Â*Â*Â*Â* |Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* \Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* |
Â*Â*Â*Â* vÂ*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* \____ SATA 15pÂ*Â*Â*Â* |
Â*Â*Â*Â* |Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â * 4 drives is probably "enough"
Â*Â*Â*Â* +- Molex ------ SATA 15pÂ*Â*Â*Â* |
Â*Â*Â*Â* |Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* \Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* |
Â*Â*Â*Â* vÂ*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* \____ SATA 15pÂ*Â*Â*Â* v
Â*Â*Â*Â* |Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* -------
Â*Â*Â*Â* +- Molex ------ SATA 15p
Â*~11VÂ*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* \Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* --- Check for voltage drop if
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* \____ SATA 15pÂ*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* adding too many...

The thing to be avoided, is chaining a bunch of
SATAs in a row. If you find a male SATA to two female
SATA, then that would be an "ampacity fail" in terms
of a design. SATA has a 3 amp limit, and some SATAs
on the left could end up carrying more than that. The DC
peak current on hard drives is actually a bit variable,
and not all that easy to predict (short of finding
the detailed drive spec sheet that has an
actual oscilloscope trace).

Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* SATAÂ* ------ SATAÂ* -------- SATAÂ* ---- SATA 15p
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* \Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* \_______ SATAÂ* ---- SATA 15p
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* \____ SATAÂ* ________ SATAÂ* ---- SATA 15p
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* \
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Â* -------- SATAÂ* ---- SATA 15p

Molex has a 6 to 10 amp limit, partially influenced
by the wire gauge crimped into the connector,
partially influenced by how many pins are next
to one another. I might split the difference
and claim it can carry 8 amps or so - but I have
had a Molex "burn" with only 5.5 amps or so (video
card). If a Molex works itself loose, so the
connection becomes bad, that's how it burns.
Actual authentic Molex brand would never do that
(they have extremely high insertion force), while
all the knockoffs don't have nearly the same
insertion/retention characteristic.

The loom can use various gauges of wire. From
little surprises I've received here, around four
drives running off a single cable run from the
PSU is about the limit. At some point, there
is too much DC voltage drop along the cable.
You might need to use three or four Y's in a
row, to encourage "bad electrical hygiene" when
dealing with HDD loads.

Hard drives have two voltage sensors. The drive
is not put in running order, until the 12V wire
reaches a bit more than 11V.

If the wire is beginning to "sag" under the load,
the DC voltage gets uncomfortably close to 11V.
The HDD senses this, and thinks the power has
just come on. It resets the drive in the middle
of what you were doing. This is... not good.
I've had a drive here go into a "reset loop"
where it keeps spinning up, over and over again,
and sloppy Y cable use was the root cause.
This doesn't seem to hurt the drive, so that's
not an issue.

If that happens, re-distribute the drive electrical
loads on two cable runs from the PSU, rather than
continuing to run all those drives off one
originating cable run.

The run I had trouble with, was powering both
hard drives and fans. The fans don't draw
too much current, but they encourage making
the "chain" of molex Y cables too long. Then,
sticking a hard drive on the very end one,
gets you below 11V again.

With a little common sense, you shouldn't
have a problem.

Â*Â* Paul


In a previous thread I opened about installing an SSD, you warned me
about the bundling of wires, and recommended a SATA data cable with a
90° clip on the end.
I found out in doing it just how correct you were.
The SSD sits facing the front panel, with very little room, and the 90°
clip was the answer.

In addition to that I had to unbundle the wires from the PSU that some
nimble-fingered, far-eastern woman had so neatly passed around the box
edgings and tied up so neatly. I took out a cable I needed, wired it
into the SSD, tied up the remaining wires as best I could with a piece
of twisty wire, and put the box edgings and panels back on. But when I
rebooted there was a clankety-clank sound, then silence until I powered
down, when another slight clankety-clank sound came.
I think I knew straight away what it was; and, yes, I was right. A wire
hanging down in front of the fan in the fascia casing.
And if you google for this sound, you get thousands of hits for similar
things.

Ed

  #8  
Old June 8th 18, 01:28 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,873
Default Power line splitter

Ed Cryer wrote:

In a previous thread I opened about installing an SSD, you warned me
about the bundling of wires, and recommended a SATA data cable with a
90° clip on the end.
I found out in doing it just how correct you were.
The SSD sits facing the front panel, with very little room, and the 90°
clip was the answer.

In addition to that I had to unbundle the wires from the PSU that some
nimble-fingered, far-eastern woman had so neatly passed around the box
edgings and tied up so neatly. I took out a cable I needed, wired it
into the SSD, tied up the remaining wires as best I could with a piece
of twisty wire, and put the box edgings and panels back on. But when I
rebooted there was a clankety-clank sound, then silence until I powered
down, when another slight clankety-clank sound came.
I think I knew straight away what it was; and, yes, I was right. A wire
hanging down in front of the fan in the fascia casing.
And if you google for this sound, you get thousands of hits for similar
things.

Ed


And the funny thing is, power supplies with modular wiring,
really don't make things all that much better. There's
still stuff hanging down where you don't want it.

At least with SSDs, there's less current draw, so not
nearly the same potential issue with max_current.

Paul
  #9  
Old June 8th 18, 09:26 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Andy Burns[_6_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,318
Default Power line splitter

Paul wrote:

At least with SSDs, there's less current draw


I've not generally found SSDs take less current than 2.5" HDs
  #10  
Old June 8th 18, 10:30 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,873
Default Power line splitter

Andy Burns wrote:
Paul wrote:

At least with SSDs, there's less current draw


I've not generally found SSDs take less current than 2.5" HDs


The ones I've tried so far, seem to draw less than 500mA.
But that's not all of them. I don't own any which
use a Sandforce controller (which has a compressor
in it).

The SSD I just tested, used 5V @ 340mA at the very
beginning of an HDTune read benchmark run, and then
settled down to 200mA during the majority of the run.
The idle current is 60mA. The test was done in Win7.

512GB SSD 5V @ 60mA idle
5V @ 200mA read bench (a couple seconds of 340mA
just before the bench curve
starts rendering)

The laptop drive that used to be in my laptop,
draws 5V @ 180mA idle, but rises to 5V @ 450mA
during the body of the HDTune read benchmark.
Compared to the 200mA the SSD draws.

320GB HDD 2.5" 5V @ 180mA idle
5V @ 450mA read bench

The SSD is winning by a little bit, on this
relaxed benchmark. I would guess under some
other circumstances, the SSD would be drawing
the 340mA continuously.

In any case, for the SSDs here I've tested (4),
they generally stay under 500mA.

My statement from a connector perspective, is that
0.34 amps is less than the 2 amps on 12V a 3.5"
drive might draw at spinup (your mileage may vary).
There's less danger of a chain of drives burning a
connector. I could chain a fair number of 2.5" SSDs at
the 0.34A level. The 3.5" HDD, once spinup is complete,
generally drop back to a lower current flow
level (in the old days, around 12V @ 0.6 amps).

So if you want to chain a zillion SSDs across your
benchtop using Y cable, be my guest. There's less
danger with those. There's at least one Sandforce
drive that used a peak of 7W (so 5V @ 1.4A on write
or so), but not all SSD controllers are designed
exactly like that. Kingston brand drives
seem to use a lot of Sandforce chips, if you
wanted to track down samples.

The worst part about SSDs, is they don't tend to
show the 200mA or 340mA number. That's left as a
mystery. Instead, they show some idiotic "devsleep"
number on the tin. The marketing department simply
takes the lowest number seen anywhere on the
datasheet, and that becomes the "figure on the box".
If you're worried about running the SSD drive bus-powered
on a USB2 enclosure, you'll have to measure the
drive when you get it, to see if it's less than
500mA. (The idea being, that USB2 is the lowest
common denominator in the computer room, and yes,
I've had to do backups over that interface.)

Paul
  #11  
Old June 9th 18, 12:30 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Tim[_10_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 249
Default Power line splitter

Paul wrote in news
My statement from a connector perspective, is that
0.34 amps is less than the 2 amps on 12V a 3.5"
drive might draw at spinup (your mileage may vary).
There's less danger of a chain of drives burning a
connector. I could chain a fair number of 2.5" SSDs at
the 0.34A level. The 3.5" HDD, once spinup is complete,
generally drop back to a lower current flow
level (in the old days, around 12V @ 0.6 amps).

So if you want to chain a zillion SSDs across your
benchtop using Y cable, be my guest. There's less
danger with those. There's at least one Sandforce
drive that used a peak of 7W (so 5V @ 1.4A on write
or so), but not all SSD controllers are designed
exactly like that. Kingston brand drives
seem to use a lot of Sandforce chips, if you
wanted to track down samples.


Paul

I have five 3.5" drives in a stack in my tower case. I originally had
mostly direct runs from the PSU, with a couple of Ys, but that made a
really dense mass of cables. I found a kind of splitter that one drive
side connector and four cable side connectors strung together along a set
of separate wires in a ladder type structure. It also had some 2200 µf
caps in the head connector, supposedly to stabilize the +12 and +5 lines.
It has been working fine for three years now, and definitely cleaned up
the cable mess that used to be there, and freed a couple of connectors
for my DVD drives.

Silverstone Tek Four-in-One SATA Power Connectors with Power Stabilizing
Capacitors (CP06)
  #12  
Old June 9th 18, 02:47 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,873
Default Power line splitter

Tim wrote:
Paul wrote in news
My statement from a connector perspective, is that
0.34 amps is less than the 2 amps on 12V a 3.5"
drive might draw at spinup (your mileage may vary).
There's less danger of a chain of drives burning a
connector. I could chain a fair number of 2.5" SSDs at
the 0.34A level. The 3.5" HDD, once spinup is complete,
generally drop back to a lower current flow
level (in the old days, around 12V @ 0.6 amps).

So if you want to chain a zillion SSDs across your
benchtop using Y cable, be my guest. There's less
danger with those. There's at least one Sandforce
drive that used a peak of 7W (so 5V @ 1.4A on write
or so), but not all SSD controllers are designed
exactly like that. Kingston brand drives
seem to use a lot of Sandforce chips, if you
wanted to track down samples.


Paul

I have five 3.5" drives in a stack in my tower case. I originally had
mostly direct runs from the PSU, with a couple of Ys, but that made a
really dense mass of cables. I found a kind of splitter that one drive
side connector and four cable side connectors strung together along a set
of separate wires in a ladder type structure. It also had some 2200 uf
caps in the head connector, supposedly to stabilize the +12 and +5 lines.
It has been working fine for three years now, and definitely cleaned up
the cable mess that used to be there, and freed a couple of connectors
for my DVD drives.

Silverstone Tek Four-in-One SATA Power Connectors with Power Stabilizing
Capacitors (CP06)


Be careful not to exceed the stability criterion.

Too many caps spells trouble.

The control loop has phase margin. Adding caps
degrades margin. If you go too far, the supply
could oscillate at a low frequency.

This is from some old Intel guide on how to design
ATX power supplies.

"3.3.5 Capacitive Load

The power supply should be able to power up and operate normally
with the following capacitances simultaneously present on the DC outputs.

Output: +12VDC +5VDC +3.3VDC -5VDC -12VDC +5VSB
Capacitive load (uF): 1,000 10,000 6,000 350 350 350

3.3.6 Closed Loop Stability

The power supply shall be unconditionally stable under all
line/load/transient load conditions including capacitive loads
specified in Section 3.3.5. A minimum of 45 degrees phase and
10 dB-gain margin is required. The power supply vendor shall
provide proof of the units closed-loop stability with local sensing
through the submission of Bode plots. Closed-loop stability must
be ensured at the maximum and minimum loads as applicable.
"

That doesn't mean each supply design honors those numbers.
Those numbers might be considered minimums. And the values
aren't typically shown in power supply datasheets either.
At work, we would have to phone people to get that kind
of information.

The temptation to use caps is... overpowering :-) It's
a temptation you have to fight.

HTH,
Paul
 




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