Sync apps

On Mon, 11 Jun 2018 14:04:30 -0400, Paul
wrote:


[snip]

One computer facilitates the copy process from A to B. Since A is a
network share and B is a physical drive, the network speed does play a
role in this. I have not yet upgraded to 10G. Absolutely need to do
that as soon as possible.

There is an example of a card here. The x4 interface helps
get sufficient bandwidth to actually use it.

https://www.newegg.ca/Product/Produc...16833320272CVF

How it works, is hinted at here. Unlike USB3.1 Rev.2, it uses
a "fancy" scheme to transmit data on four pairs. It uses PAM16,
DSQ128, and a lot of what looks like DSP. Page 7 for example,
shows a representation of the cleanup of a received signal.
My guess is, the high power dissipation (5 to 8 watts)
for stuff like that, is because of the signal processing.
USB3.1 Rev.2 at 10Gbit/sec, is relatively naive by comparison
(and only supports short cabling), and as a result a USB3.1
device doesn't burn quite as much power.

http://www.ikn.no/download/Whitepape...rnet-10-08.pdf

The eye diagram for PAM-16 is here. You can see the eye is
wide open near the end of a symbol period. (By comparison,
regular GbE uses PAM-5 with the same sort of intentions.)

http://keydigital.be/images/wp_Choos...ooseCAT5_2.jpg

( http://keydigital.be/KnowledgeCenter...edPair_wp.html )

This is USB3.2 (two channels of 3.1 Rev2 bonded) on a scope
for comparison. No fancy eye diagram, just regular ones
and zeros in a plain format.

https://images.anandtech.com/doci/12...7996_575px.JPG

There's more than one I/O option for 10GbE, and lots of
opinions about what to use. (Fiber versus copper)

At one time, the cards were $500 a pop (and made by Intel),
but finally a worthy competitor has appeared. (You still
need to read the Newegg reviews though to see if
actual customers are happy with the product.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aquantia_Corporation

I still don't own any of those :-)

Using ICS and no 10GbE switch would reduce the install cost,
but wouldn't make using it as pleasant as I'd like.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intern...ection_Sharing

Make sure to do thorough data integrity testing after
you get it set up. Checksum the file at the source end.
Transfer it to disk at the receiving end. Run a
checksum on the received file. Make sure they agree.

If you're using hard drives on Machine B, yes, you profit
by running faster than GbE to a ~200MB/sec single drive.
But if the 10GbE actually runs at the full rate, that's
1250MB/sec, and you could use a RAID array of hard drives
to keep up. As buying NVMe SSD drives just to keep up with
the I/O rate would be silly.

One thing SSD drives have going for them, is some
monstrously large ones have been produced. There
was a 40TB one in a 3.5" drive form factor, but it
costs as much as a new car, so doesn't make for
cost effective (or even reliable) long term storage.
The I/O rate on that one is so slow, you can write the
drive continuously at full (SATA) rate for five years,
without exceeding the P/E (program erase) cycle limit
on the flash.

As for hard drives, they come in helium filled and
regular (air-filled) drives. As I understand it,
the helium ones are only guaranteed to hold the
helium for five years. I don't know what happens
after that. You can get helium ones in sizes anywhere
from 6TB to 14TB or so. Helium allows more platters
per drive, which is one of the incentives. One thing
they're doing, is shaving down the thickness of the
platters too, to encourage really tight spacing
on platters. Yikes. The air filled ones run
warmer, if you stuff them like that. Regular
drives have a breather hole to equalize atmospheric
pressure (so the cover won't tin-can on you :-) ).

Paul

I want 10G pretty badly at this point. Essy enough to add it to
desktops, but what about laptops. I haven't checked prices in a while.
All the hardware around here is bottom line garbage. It's your typical
scenario around here. Dig a deep hole, and dig it fast. Great, where's
the shovel? Shovel? I'm not paying for that. Oh but it is in your best
interest. If you see a picture next to the word cheapskate in the
dictionary, it's likely my employer.

--
Peter Kozlov

Peter Kozlov wrote:

I want 10G pretty badly at this point. Essy enough to add it to
desktops, but what about laptops. I haven't checked prices in a while.
All the hardware around here is bottom line garbage. It's your typical
scenario around here. Dig a deep hole, and dig it fast. Great, where's
the shovel? Shovel? I'm not paying for that. Oh but it is in your best
interest. If you see a picture next to the word cheapskate in the
dictionary, it's likely my employer.

10GbE devices seem to have heatsinks on them.

That suggests a laptop would be a bad place for one :-)

However, if the laptop had a "dock" capability, you
could look into whether a dock allows adding such
a thing.

*******

The fastest Wifi you can get, will do around 700MB/sec
at a distance of five feet. It uses 60GHz microwaves
as a carrier, and to remain on that band, both
devices must be in the same room. If that flavor of
Wigig is located on two different floors, it reverts
to previous standards (with a big reduction in speed).
I'm not aware of any laptops having Wigig, but
you never know, it might happen.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WiGig

*******

The biggest issue with laptop design, is the peak bandwidth
of any expansion features. For example, laptops
with Thunderbolt would likely be extensible, but not all
brands are going to offer that. Then you need a
"Thunderbolt to X" converter of some sort, and so on.

Laptops aren't exactly easy to fix. Even if they still
put ExpressCard on a laptop, that's still not a very
fat pipe. And it's not like the silicon lacks
fat pipes. With a little effort, I'm sure there's
an x4 sitting in there, waiting to be used.

If you had a gamer laptop with one or two NVidia MXM
modules, I would expect the edge card connector of
an MXM slot, to have lots of PCIe lanes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_PCI_Express_Module

(Sample picture of an MXM - a heatpipe bolts on top...)

http://www.notebookreview.com/howto/...raphics-cards/

Of course, they're not going to make any alternate
functions in that form factor.

*******

Here's a sample adapter for Thunderbolt. Not seeing
a USB version. Driver suggests Intel X710 inside.
The documents also suggest the adapter has a *fan* inside.

https://tinkertry.com/promise-sanlin...3-usb-pc-10gbe

http://shop.promise.com/index.php?p=product&id=160

*******

For a laptop, this smacks of "impractical". Might require
buying a laptop specifically for the purpose of
expandability.

Paul

On Mon, 11 Jun 2018 15:48:58 -0400, Paul
wrote:

Peter Kozlov wrote:

I want 10G pretty badly at this point. Essy enough to add it to
desktops, but what about laptops. I haven't checked prices in a while.
All the hardware around here is bottom line garbage. It's your typical
scenario around here. Dig a deep hole, and dig it fast. Great, where's
the shovel? Shovel? I'm not paying for that. Oh but it is in your best
interest. If you see a picture next to the word cheapskate in the
dictionary, it's likely my employer.

10GbE devices seem to have heatsinks on them.

That suggests a laptop would be a bad place for one :-)

However, if the laptop had a "dock" capability, you
could look into whether a dock allows adding such
a thing.

*******

The fastest Wifi you can get, will do around 700MB/sec
at a distance of five feet. It uses 60GHz microwaves
as a carrier, and to remain on that band, both
devices must be in the same room. If that flavor of
Wigig is located on two different floors, it reverts
to previous standards (with a big reduction in speed).
I'm not aware of any laptops having Wigig, but
you never know, it might happen.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WiGig

*******

The biggest issue with laptop design, is the peak bandwidth
of any expansion features. For example, laptops
with Thunderbolt would likely be extensible, but not all
brands are going to offer that. Then you need a
"Thunderbolt to X" converter of some sort, and so on.

Laptops aren't exactly easy to fix. Even if they still
put ExpressCard on a laptop, that's still not a very
fat pipe. And it's not like the silicon lacks
fat pipes. With a little effort, I'm sure there's
an x4 sitting in there, waiting to be used.

If you had a gamer laptop with one or two NVidia MXM
modules, I would expect the edge card connector of
an MXM slot, to have lots of PCIe lanes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_PCI_Express_Module

(Sample picture of an MXM - a heatpipe bolts on top...)

http://www.notebookreview.com/howto/...raphics-cards/

Of course, they're not going to make any alternate
functions in that form factor.

*******

Here's a sample adapter for Thunderbolt. Not seeing
a USB version. Driver suggests Intel X710 inside.
The documents also suggest the adapter has a *fan* inside.

https://tinkertry.com/promise-sanlin...3-usb-pc-10gbe

http://shop.promise.com/index.php?p=product&id=160

*******

For a laptop, this smacks of "impractical". Might require
buying a laptop specifically for the purpose of
expandability.

Paul

Yeah, I think for this it is not unreasable to build a purpose built
PC with 10G for the job.

--
Peter Kozlov

In article , Paul
wrote:


I want 10G pretty badly at this point. Essy enough to add it to
desktops, but what about laptops. I haven't checked prices in a while.
All the hardware around here is bottom line garbage. It's your typical
scenario around here. Dig a deep hole, and dig it fast. Great, where's
the shovel? Shovel? I'm not paying for that. Oh but it is in your best
interest. If you see a picture next to the word cheapskate in the
dictionary, it's likely my employer.

10GbE devices seem to have heatsinks on them.

yea, like this one:
https://www.sonnettech.com/product/twin10g.html

however, that's changing:
https://www.sonnettech.com/product/solo-10g-tb3.html
https://www.akitio.com/media/com_hik...hunder2-10gbe-
adapter-size3.jpg
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...3114135&cm_re=
10gb_ethernet-_-33-114-135-_-Product

That suggests a laptop would be a bad place for one :-)

it adds heat, but laptops do have fans...

However, if the laptop had a "dock" capability, you
could look into whether a dock allows adding such
a thing.

all that's needed is thunderbolt.

usb 3.1 gen 2 could support it, but i haven't seen any usb 10ge
adapters, at least not yet.

The fastest Wifi you can get, will do around 700MB/sec
at a distance of five feet. It uses 60GHz microwaves
as a carrier, and to remain on that band, both
devices must be in the same room.

nonsense.

5ghz 802.11ac can easily saturate a single gigabit port and at much
more than 5 feet.

many routers & switches can aggregate multiple gigabit ports for faster
speeds, as can some peripherals, such as a synology nas.

nospam wrote:
In article , Paul


The fastest Wifi you can get, will do around 700MB/sec
at a distance of five feet. It uses 60GHz microwaves
as a carrier, and to remain on that band, both
devices must be in the same room.

nonsense.

5ghz 802.11ac can easily saturate a single gigabit port and at much
more than 5 feet.

many routers & switches can aggregate multiple gigabit ports for faster
speeds, as can some peripherals, such as a synology nas.

The 700MB/sec number is a *measured* value. Those are megabytes
not megabits. And that's end-user-goodput.

Now, go find me a *measured* 802.11ac that is faster.

I'll wait.

(The one site I could rely on for measurements, isn't equipped
for 1024-QAM, so the numbers cannot be taken from there
in this case. Their equipment is limited to 256-QAM.)

One user with a $500 802.11ac measured 50MB/sec of goodput.
But we can't use that number, because the user obviously
wasn't "blessed with superpowers". So you'll have to dig
deeper to beat 700MB/sec. Only off by a factor of 14 so far.

There is no channel contention at 60GHz. There's no
greenfield in that band, no backward compatibility
to worry about. Your microwave oven doesn't run at
60GHz. However, both pieces of 60GHz equipment must
be in the same room. Which for situations where
you want to "cluster" a few computers, is a possibility.
The machines can be placed close enough to get the rate.

Paul

In article , Paul
wrote:

The fastest Wifi you can get, will do around 700MB/sec
at a distance of five feet. It uses 60GHz microwaves
as a carrier, and to remain on that band, both
devices must be in the same room.

nonsense.

5ghz 802.11ac can easily saturate a single gigabit port and at much
more than 5 feet.

many routers & switches can aggregate multiple gigabit ports for faster
speeds, as can some peripherals, such as a synology nas.

The 700MB/sec number is a *measured* value. Those are megabytes
not megabits. And that's end-user-goodput.

Now, go find me a *measured* 802.11ac that is faster.

i missed the megabyte/megabit and 60ghz 802.11ad is not widely
available, with incredibly short range and therefore not suitable for
end-user devices.

802.11ac is capable of similar speeds, although devices that support
the highest speeds are also not widely available. yet.
http://www.quantenna.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/QSR10GTV1.0.pdf
€ Up to 8.6Gbps PHY/Data Link Speed in 160MHz mode