A Windows XP help forum. PCbanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » PCbanter forum » Windows 10 » Windows 10 Help Forum
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Safari



 
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #16  
Old June 9th 18, 11:26 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Ralph Fox
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 474
Default Safari

On Sat, 09 Jun 2018 17:39:18 -0400, nospam wrote:

In article , Ralph Fox
wrote:

IME Safari 5.1.7 is a little bit out of date as web standards go.

Safari (Mac OS) is at version 11.1, making 5.1.7 look old.

Is there a Windows browser that uses the Safari rendering engine?

chrome uses apple's webkit, although google forked it several years
back, so it will be very close but not exactly the same.


The fork was in 2013, just one year after Safari stopped supporting Windows.


coincidence. one had absolutely nothing to do with the other.



The point is that the age of the difference between Blink and Webkit is close
to the age of Safari for Windows.

So it would be a mistake for one to imply that Chrome (with 5 years difference)
would be a much closer match than Safari for Windows (with 6 years difference)
to Safari (Mac OS) version 11.1.

We have been discussing what would be a match for current Safari, after all.
That is what I have been replying to. Nobody said there was a causative
connection between the fork and Apple dropping Safari for Windows.


--
Kind regards
Ralph

🦊
Ads
  #17  
Old June 9th 18, 11:28 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Ralph Fox
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 474
Default Safari

On Sat, 9 Jun 2018 17:28:19 -0400, Mayayana wrote:

"Philip Herlihy" wrote

| Is there a Windows browser that uses the Safari rendering engine?
|

Chrome. Opera.



Not for five years.


--
Kind regards
Ralph

🦊
  #18  
Old June 10th 18, 02:51 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Mayayana
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,438
Default Safari

"Ralph Fox" wrote

| | Is there a Windows browser that uses the Safari rendering engine?
|
| Chrome. Opera.
|
| Not for five years.


That's rather cryptic. Ar you saying that Google's
fork has become so different as to be a different
engine? I guess the real test would be to see what's
different on a Mac in Chrome vs Safari. Are they notably
diferent, like IE vs FF, or essentially the same?

On the other hand, is the basic core so different
among non-IE browsers generally? I depend on all of
them to render my HTML/CSS in basically the same
way.

Even if Chrome and Firefox used the same core,
to me the big difference would be in extensions,
settings, Chrome's spyware, etc. If Safari were
re-released for Windows, those would be the factors
that I'd be interested in, once it was established
that it could basically handle rendering webpages.
If it follows web standards then there shouldn't be
a lot of variation.


  #19  
Old June 10th 18, 09:20 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Ralph Fox
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 474
Default Safari

On Sat, 09 Jun 2018 17:39:18 -0400, nospam wrote:

In article , Ralph Fox
wrote:


When I compared Chrome with GNOME Web (a.k.a. Epiphany) which uses
Webkit (the Safari rendering engine) on Linux, I saw some differences
especially with rendering SVG.


what some linux app did with an unknown version of webkit is not
relevant to what safari itself does.



GNOME Web is using the latest version of Webkit, currently 605.1.15, the
same Webkit version as used by Safari 11.1 for MacOS. That makes it way
closer than the Chrome browser which forked at Webkit version 537.36
five years ago, and which you described upthread as "very close".


--
Kind regards
Ralph

🦊
  #20  
Old June 10th 18, 11:06 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Philip Herlihy
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 208
Default Safari

In article , -rf-nz-
@-.invalid says...

On Sat, 9 Jun 2018 17:28:19 -0400, Mayayana wrote:

"Philip Herlihy" wrote

| Is there a Windows browser that uses the Safari rendering engine?
|

Chrome. Opera.



Not for five years.


Thanks, that's useful (though not the answer I was hoping for).

The reason I ask is that I once designed a web-page which arranged
"inline blocks" neatly across the page, responsively to viewport width,
and nicely aligned along the bottom edge. Looked great. Except, I
discovered much later, in Safari, which aligned them according to the
height of the last row of text, with the result that the "boxes" looked
like they'd been spilled in a hurry on the page. An additional CSS
tweak fixed it, but one that was unnecessary in any other browser. Now
that I'm without a recent Windows version of Safari, I guess Apple/Mac
users pay their money and take their choice.

--

Phil, London
  #21  
Old June 10th 18, 06:43 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Sam E[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 248
Default Safari

On 06/09/2018 03:37 PM, Ralph Fox wrote:

[snip]

IME Safari 5.1.7 is a little bit out of date as web standards go.


Safari (Mac OS) is at version 11.1, making 5.1.7 look old.


This is the Windows 10 newsgroup, and that won't be much use on Windows 10.


It is relevant, not as a browser to use, but as information on how old
5.1.7 is.


  #22  
Old June 10th 18, 07:37 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Mark Lloyd[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,756
Default Safari

On 06/09/2018 04:28 PM, Mayayana wrote:

[snip]

It pretends to be every browser except the one it is,
never admitting that it's actually an IE derivative,
basically IE with all the IE-specific functionality stripped
out. (All prior versions of IE have "MSIE" in the UA.)


MSIE3-10 do. I don't know about earlier.

The UA string for MSIE11 does not have MSIE in it, although it does
have Trident:

Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; Trident/7.0; rv:11.0) like Gecko

[snip]

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"No one can be an unbeliever nowadays. The Christian apologists have
left one nothing to disbelieve." [Saki, H.H. Munro (1870-1916), Scottish
author]
  #23  
Old June 10th 18, 08:15 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Mayayana
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,438
Default Safari

"Mark Lloyd" wrote

|
| The UA string for MSIE11 does not have MSIE in it, although it does
| have Trident:
|
| Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; Trident/7.0; rv:11.0) like Gecko
|

Yes. Unless a domain is set for compatibility
mode. Then it sends an IE7 UA.

I use this PHP to give one page to IE, another
to other browsers, and a third to IE11/Edge:

$suser = getenv("HTTP_USER_AGENT");
if (stristr($suser, "MSIE"))
{
$smenu = "menuie2.inc";
}
elseif (stristr($suser, "Trident"))
{
$smenu = "menuiex.inc";
}
elseif (stristr($suser, "Edge"))
{
$smenu = "menuiex.inc";
}
else
{
$smenu = "menumoz2.inc";
}

Edge is a weird one. Microsoft don't want people to
sniff the browser, so they don't add either MSIE or Trident.
But they do include "Edge" at the end.


  #24  
Old June 10th 18, 08:36 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Mayayana
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,438
Default Safari

"Philip Herlihy" wrote

| The reason I ask is that I once designed a web-page which arranged
| "inline blocks" neatly across the page, responsively to viewport width,
| and nicely aligned along the bottom edge. Looked great. Except, I
| discovered much later, in Safari, which aligned them according to the
| height of the last row of text, with the result that the "boxes" looked
| like they'd been spilled in a hurry on the page. An additional CSS
| tweak fixed it, but one that was unnecessary in any other browser. Now
| that I'm without a recent Windows version of Safari, I guess Apple/Mac
| users pay their money and take their choice.
|

I got curious and did some looking around. I
installed SRWare Iron, which is supposed to be
a non-spyware version of Chrome. (It's dubious,
though. First it kept trying to reach start-iron.com
without asking. When that failed it tried to call
Google, which is exactly what their website claims
it won't do.)

Then I installed Midori, which claims to be a
WebKit browser. That one tried to call to an
amazonaws IP without explaining what it was doing.
In fact, the IP was hard-coded: 107.20.240.232
It told me it had failed to reach the IP but didn't say
why it was trying to get there.

Weird stuff.
Both browsers were also very disappointing in terms
of configurability. Neither even has an option to
show the menu bar. Neither allows me to eliminate tabs.
Midori won't even allow disabling cookies. The best I
can do is to delete them after an hour and disable
3rd-party cookies. Maybe that reflects the Apple
sensibility of not giving people options.

I'm tempted to stop complaining about Firefox.
Using Iron/Chromium or Midori/Webkit, compared to
Firefox, is like using a limited tablet compared to
a desktop computer.

Be that as it may.... My main idea was to test rendering.
Iron 49. Midori .5.11. Firefox 52.

Midori was a bit funky, showing various error
messages. But it loaded a webpage fine nevertheless.
The current version seems to be from 2015. I don't
know what version of WebKit it uses.

I tested a couple of my own pages, which don't use
script but do use somewhat complex CSS. All 3 browsers
rendered identically, except that Midori rendered all of the
text slightly bolder. Normal text looked slightly bold. Bold
text looked slightly heavier. But I couldn't find any
other differences.

Iron and Firefox were indistinguishable in their
rendering.

If you *really* need to make sure your pages are
rendering as you expect on Macs then you should
probably test them on Macs, but you might find
Midori worth checking. If it relfects what Safari does
then it would provide much easier CSS/JS debugging
than installing Linux or buying a Mac.


  #25  
Old June 11th 18, 05:24 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Nomen Nescio
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 825
Default Safari

In article
Ken Blake wrote:

It's been quite a while since I last tried Safari, so I thought I
would give it another try to see what's changed in it. So I just
downloaded and installed it.

Before I decide whether I like it or not, I'd appreciate any tips from
Safari users here. Any settings I should choose? Any add-ins? Anything
else I should know or do?


Just one tip.

UNINSTALL that unatural POS

  #26  
Old June 11th 18, 02:53 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
SilverSlimer
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 56
Default Safari

On Sat, 9 Jun 2018 21:16:02 +0100, Philip Herlihy
wrote:

In article ,
says...

On 06/08/2018 03:02 PM, Ralph Fox wrote:

[snip[

IME Safari 5.1.7 is a little bit out of date as web standards go.


Safari (Mac OS) is at version 11.1, making 5.1.7 look old.


Is there a Windows browser that uses the Safari rendering engine?


If I remember correctly, Safari uses the open-source WebKit engine. I
don't think any Windows browsers use the engine but lots of browsers
on the Linux side should.
  #27  
Old June 11th 18, 03:09 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Mayayana
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,438
Default Safari

"SilverSlimer" wrote

| If I remember correctly, Safari uses the open-source WebKit engine. I
| don't think any Windows browsers use the engine but lots of browsers
| on the Linux side should.

Midori.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...s#WebKit-based

See my post from yesterday. I'd still be curious
to hear from people with extensive experience in
Blink/Webkit/Gecko, as to how much actual difference
there is. It doesn't look to me like there's enough
difference to worry about it, but I also don't use
a lot of demanding websites.

On the other hand, there is a lot of difference in
terms of settings and extensions available.


  #28  
Old June 11th 18, 05:47 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Mark Lloyd[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,756
Default Safari

On 06/10/2018 02:36 PM, Mayayana wrote:

[snip]

If you *really* need to make sure your pages are
rendering as you expect on Macs then you should
probably test them on Macs, but you might find
Midori worth checking. If it relfects what Safari does
then it would provide much easier CSS/JS debugging
than installing Linux or buying a Mac.


I use a Mac Mini for that purpose. That's about all it gets used for,
other than running BOINC.

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"The truths which God revealed have been overthrown by the truths which
man has discovered." [Lemuel K. Washburn, _Is The Bible Worth Reading
And Other Essays_, 1911]
  #29  
Old June 11th 18, 09:02 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
SilverSlimer
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 56
Default Safari

On Mon, 11 Jun 2018 10:09:03 -0400, "Mayayana"
wrote:

"SilverSlimer" wrote

| If I remember correctly, Safari uses the open-source WebKit engine. I
| don't think any Windows browsers use the engine but lots of browsers
| on the Linux side should.

Midori.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...s#WebKit-based

See my post from yesterday. I'd still be curious
to hear from people with extensive experience in
Blink/Webkit/Gecko, as to how much actual difference
there is. It doesn't look to me like there's enough
difference to worry about it, but I also don't use
a lot of demanding websites.

On the other hand, there is a lot of difference in
terms of settings and extensions available.


The extensions alone make it worth staying with Firefox or some
Chrome-like browser. I use Vivaldi, myself. It's basically Chrome
without all of the Google garbage.
  #30  
Old June 12th 18, 11:05 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Philip Herlihy
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 208
Default Safari

In article ,
says...

On Sat, 9 Jun 2018 21:16:02 +0100, Philip Herlihy
wrote:

In article ,
says...

On 06/08/2018 03:02 PM, Ralph Fox wrote:

[snip[

IME Safari 5.1.7 is a little bit out of date as web standards go.

Safari (Mac OS) is at version 11.1, making 5.1.7 look old.


Is there a Windows browser that uses the Safari rendering engine?


If I remember correctly, Safari uses the open-source WebKit engine. I
don't think any Windows browsers use the engine but lots of browsers
on the Linux side should.


Last time I had access to Safari it did render certain layout
differently from Chrome.

--

Phil, London
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off






All times are GMT +1. The time now is 12:58 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 PCbanter.
The comments are property of their posters.