Windows to iPod

Is there a way to get an mp4 video from windows to an iPod without having
to install iTunes on the Windows machine?

When I connect the iPod by USB it shows up as a drive but opening that
drive in Winodws doesn't show anything.
http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=16_ipad.jpg

Why can't I just connect the iPod by usb cable and move video over?

Given , Wolf K
wrote:

Here's one of many hits for "write to iPod from Windows".

https://www.iskysoft.com/mobile-tips...3-to-ipod.html
They all require iTunes

Bram van den Heuvel wrote:
Is there a way to get an mp4 video from windows to an iPod without having
to install iTunes on the Windows machine?

When I connect the iPod by USB it shows up as a drive but opening that
drive in Winodws doesn't show anything.
http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=16_ipad.jpg

Why can't I just connect the iPod by usb cable and move video over?

The Ipod can have an Apple file system on it. Like HFS+ or something.

When you read a Linux article on the topic, that helps shed
a little light on the implementation. It seems the mounting
step it a bit more straightforward, but isn't going to work
all that well if Mac file systems are involved.

http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/lin...untu-linux-pc/

The device has a couple partitions on it. One may be the boot
partition of the iPod, and the second partition might be
where the music is stored.

Windows treats fixed and removable media a bit different.
For example, a Flash stick prepared in Linux with four
partitions, only the first partition can be mounted in
Windows, and only if it was NTFS/FAT32/ExFAT and so on.

Whereas if you had a USB hard drive, you could have more
partitions on that and all the partitions mount. I think
that works OK.

So it doesn't appear there is an outright barrier (encryption,
DRM) to stop the transfer. Just the usual details of mixing
heterogeneous hardwares together and expecting them to work.

If I was playing with it in Windows, I'd probably start
with my copy of "disktype", to get info on what file
systems are on there. Windows won't show the partitions,
since it doesn't know how to mount them. But disktype
can show the names of the file systems used.

I got my copy of this from Cygwin. There isn't a
straight forward port for Windows. Disktype is ready
to download using Package Manager in Linux, and Cygwin
is the closest path on Windows. While it could appear
in Bash shell on Windows 10, the Bash shell doesn't
have access to /dev levels of stuff, so could not
work for direct device access. The Bash shell copy
could still work with a bitmap image of a hard drive,
as in .img format perhaps. When I tested Bash shell,
I could only see /mnt/C as the C: drive, so Bash shell
deals with things that are mounted (by Windows).

http://disktype.sourceforge.net/

For forensic purposes, I'd start by addressing it
from Linux, to better understand what barriers are there
when plugged into Windows.

*******

And a Macworld article here, says you can make it
work on both platforms, if the music-holding partition
is formatted FAT32.

http://www.macworld.com/article/1046800/xplatipod.html

"iPods that are formatted for Windows can be mounted
on both Windows PCs and Macs because the Mac OS
tolerates FAT32 volumes (one of the primary formatting
schemes used by Windows). When you use a Windows-formatted
iPod on a Mac, the iPod will behave almost exactly like
a Mac-formatted iPod. iTunes will recognize it and
sync music, contacts, calendars, notes, and, when
appropriate, pictures."

By using Disktype, I'm merely being careful before
ruining something. I need to know how many partitions
the device has, and which partition is *do not touch*.
And so on.

If the protocol was MTP, perhaps some of this would
be handled better. And again, I'd want to sniff the
protocol, to better understand how it's safe to handle,
and at what level file transfers will occur.

If you do use FAT32 on it, the biggest file you will
be able to use will be 4GB. So no movie transferred
to the platform could be bigger than 4GB. It's unlikely
that 3 minute music selections will be 4GB long, so
individual music files shouldn't be a problem. But a
5GB video might be a problem.

Have fun,
Paul

On Sun, 13 Aug 2017 04:11:27 +0000 (UTC), Bram van den Heuvel wrote:

Given , Wolf K
wrote:

Here's one of many hits for "write to iPod from Windows".

https://www.iskysoft.com/mobile-tips...3-to-ipod.html
They all require iTunes

More particularly, they require the iPod device driver from Apple.
The iTunes install installs that driver as "iPod Service" on Windows,
running on Automatic. AFAIK you don't actually have to run iTunes to
use those third-party programs.

Apple's purpose for the iPod Service is that when you plug in an
iPod, the iPod Service will recognize it and immediately launch
iTunes.

I do use iTunes, and have written about it extensively at
http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/
But I don't like unnecessary services running, so I disabled iPod
Service and have a little batch file that:
1. enables and starts the service,
2. launches iTunes
3. waits for iTunes to finish
4. stops and disables the service.

When I run iTunes without running the service, iPod is not
recognized; when I want to sync iPod I run iTunes with the service,
via that batch file. I have one keyboard shortcut for iTunes on its
own, and one for iTunes with iPod Service.

--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
http://BrownMath.com/
http://OakRoadSystems.com/
Shikata ga nai...

Given news wrote:

https://www.iskysoft.com/mobile-tips...3-to-ipod.html
They all require iTunes

From the webiste I linked to:

"Part 2. Transfer MP3 Files to iPod without iTunes, but MediaMonkey "

It says this in that "part 2" section about "MediaMonkey"
" Ironically [to use MediaMonkey], you need to install iTunes
because iTunes comes with the device driver for iPod that is
required to detect and access the database of the iPod."
https://www.iskysoft.com/mobile-tips...3-to-ipod.html

In message , Wolf K
writes:
On 2017-08-12 17:09, Bram van den Heuvel wrote:
Is there a way to get an mp4 video from windows to an iPod without having
to install iTunes on the Windows machine?
[]
When I connect the iPod by USB it shows up as a drive but opening that
drive in Winodws doesn't show anything.
http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=16_ipad.jpg

I do wonder what would happen if you tried to drag a file to it anyway,
but that could be dangerous (though I _suspect_ it might just Not Work).

Why can't I just connect the iPod by usb cable and move video over?

Because Apple doesn't want you to do that.

It does appear that that is the case.

I watched/helped my blind friend trying to move/copy from his Braille
machine to his iPhone; I don't know what OS the Braille machine uses (it
isn't Windows). We eventually managed to transfer stuff, but I think
only into one specific place in the iPhone.

I think part of the problem is who is to be master (Paul's reply almost
certainly is definitive, but goes way over my head); when your PC or
ipod are talking to say a USB stick or even external drive, they are
master, and control the device, but when you connect the two together,
it's not so simple. (Like, I don't think you can connect two PCs
together via USB - at least, not without some work.)

The simplest way to do what you want might be to use a USB stick to
transfer the material - I think I've even seen ones with two connectors,
so you don't have to use a special cable for the Apple end.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Better to be a free dog than a chained lion - "casandra" on MSE, 2016-6-29

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

(Like, I don't think you can connect two PCs
together via USB - at least, not without some work.)

There is the Laplink cable for that. It's an "illegal"
cable that has Type A on either end, and there is a
mailbox chip in the middle of the cable, to fool both
computers into thinking they're "talking to a peripheral".
The cable could also potentially cause Safety Ground
issues. When it was initially invented, one of the drivers
for the cable supported a TCP/IP stack (suitable for
usage with ICS). Prolific in Taiwan, makes a USB2 version
of the chip, but so far, I've not spotted any attempt
to do a USB3 one. I don't think the sales volume is there.

https://www.amazon.com/Plugable-Wind.../dp/B005OTPVMY

Physical:

CompA -------- FIFO ---------- CompB
-------- FIFO ----------

Logical:

CompA ----- "Peripheral" "Peripheral" ----- CompB

The "Peripheral" appears to have data magically come from
no-where, via the FIFO scheme. Each Comp polls the peripheral
to see if it has data, and it drains the FIFO as packets
are found in it.

*******

And while people think of Firewire as "just another USB
solution", Firewire does actually have peer to peer
communications available in its design. But the more
"modern" Windows OSes have removed the Firewire
network stack. Firewire also supports the RDMA attack,
so you can read out all the memory on a machine, using
a Firewire cable. Which I consider a "feature" and
not a bug. That's something I bet more than one
developer has used at some time. Or even people doing
computer forensics. If your machine is running but the
screen is locked, if the Firewire port is enabled, you
could potentially suck all the data out of RAM :-)

Firewire cable
Cable_Modem ------ CompA ----------------------- CompB
(ICS) Can surf...
Internet
connection
sharing

If you're a paranoid person, don't forget to disable
the Firewire chip in the BIOS :-) By comparison,
USB doesn't have an RDMA attack like Firewire can.

Firewire doesn't even get mentioned here.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remote..._memory_access

But DMA does get mentioned here.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_1394

"Security issues

Devices on a FireWire bus can communicate by
direct memory access (DMA), where a device can use hardware
to map internal memory to FireWire's "Physical Memory Space"
..."

USB has no such mechanism.

Paul

On 8/14/2017 9:47 PM, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , Wolf K
writes:
On 2017-08-12 17:09, Bram van den Heuvel wrote:
Is there a way to get an mp4 video from windows to an iPod without
having
to install iTunes on the Windows machine?
[]
When I connect the iPod by USB it shows up as a drive but opening that
drive in Winodws doesn't show anything.
http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=16_ipad.jpg

I do wonder what would happen if you tried to drag a file to it anyway,
but that could be dangerous (though I _suspect_ it might just Not Work).

Why can't I just connect the iPod by usb cable and move video over?

Because Apple doesn't want you to do that.

It does appear that that is the case.

I watched/helped my blind friend trying to move/copy from his Braille
machine to his iPhone; I don't know what OS the Braille machine uses (it
isn't Windows). We eventually managed to transfer stuff, but I think
only into one specific place in the iPhone.

I think part of the problem is who is to be master (Paul's reply almost
certainly is definitive, but goes way over my head); when your PC or
ipod are talking to say a USB stick or even external drive, they are
master, and control the device, but when you connect the two together,
it's not so simple. (Like, I don't think you can connect two PCs
together via USB - at least, not without some work.)

The simplest way to do what you want might be to use a USB stick to
transfer the material - I think I've even seen ones with two connectors,
so you don't have to use a special cable for the Apple end.

If you have iFlicks you might find this interesting.
https://www.wired.com/2010/07/how-to...sion-required/

Mike S wrote:
On 8/14/2017 9:47 PM, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , Wolf K
writes:
On 2017-08-12 17:09, Bram van den Heuvel wrote:
Is there a way to get an mp4 video from windows to an iPod without
having
to install iTunes on the Windows machine?
[]
When I connect the iPod by USB it shows up as a drive but opening that
drive in Winodws doesn't show anything.
http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=16_ipad.jpg

I do wonder what would happen if you tried to drag a file to it
anyway, but that could be dangerous (though I _suspect_ it might just
Not Work).

Why can't I just connect the iPod by usb cable and move video over?

Because Apple doesn't want you to do that.

It does appear that that is the case.

I watched/helped my blind friend trying to move/copy from his Braille
machine to his iPhone; I don't know what OS the Braille machine uses
(it isn't Windows). We eventually managed to transfer stuff, but I
think only into one specific place in the iPhone.

I think part of the problem is who is to be master (Paul's reply
almost certainly is definitive, but goes way over my head); when your
PC or ipod are talking to say a USB stick or even external drive, they
are master, and control the device, but when you connect the two
together, it's not so simple. (Like, I don't think you can connect two
PCs together via USB - at least, not without some work.)

The simplest way to do what you want might be to use a USB stick to
transfer the material - I think I've even seen ones with two
connectors, so you don't have to use a special cable for the Apple end.

If you have iFlicks you might find this interesting.
https://www.wired.com/2010/07/how-to...sion-required/

That looks like an article intended to drag the
unsuspecting into video conversion hell :-)

I wonder what writing articles for Wired pays ?

In a nutshell:

1) Changing container formats - takes seconds
2) Changing audio codec of audio stream - takes minutes
3) Changing video codec of video stream - takes hours

The fewer changes you need to make, the faster it goes.

Not every container, supports all possible CODEC formats.
That means occasionally, when you're converting videos
for some other platform, you have to play with those
three factors - and yes, sometimes (even with AVIDemux),
it's going to take hours.

The slowest video CODEC I know of, is Cinepak, which converts
less than one frame per second. Just to give you some
idea how long it could take. Some other video conversions
could be 100x faster.

Paul

In message , Paul
writes:
J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

(Like, I don't think you can connect two PCs together via USB - at
least, not without some work.)

There is the Laplink cable for that. It's an "illegal"
cable that has Type A on either end, and there is a
mailbox chip in the middle of the cable, to fool both
computers into thinking they're "talking to a peripheral".
[]
Yes, that matches my "some work" well enough (-:.

I was just postulating - from a viewpoint of ignorance; I know virtually
nothing of ipods - that this could be part of why you can't just connect
a PC to an ipod with a USB cable and transfer files.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"Knowledge isnt elitist - that's rubbish! Why are we embarrassed by the idea
that people know things? It's not a conspiracy against the ignorant. Knowing
things is good!" - Jeremy Paxman, RT 14-20 August 2010

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , Paul
writes:
J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

(Like, I don't think you can connect two PCs together via USB - at
least, not without some work.)

There is the Laplink cable for that. It's an "illegal"
cable that has Type A on either end, and there is a
mailbox chip in the middle of the cable, to fool both
computers into thinking they're "talking to a peripheral".
[]
Yes, that matches my "some work" well enough (-:.

I was just postulating - from a viewpoint of ignorance; I know virtually
nothing of ipods - that this could be part of why you can't just connect
a PC to an ipod with a USB cable and transfer files.

There is USB OTG (On-The-Go), where the role
of "computer" and "peripheral" is negotiated at
runtime. I'm guessing that's a hack to allow
peer to peer, at least in the sense that two
peers face one another, and one peer becomes
the "peripheral", so protocols will work. The LapLink
mailbox concept (cheat), involves emulating
two peripherals inside the mailbox chip. The OTG
version is a version designed by USB.org, whereas
the mailbox one was an outside hack.

And the OTG version, one would assume in a lot of cases,
the second device is a mobile. I've not heard or
read descriptions of using OTG between two desktops.
I don't know if any hardware you can buy allows that
or not.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_OTG

Paul