Need Data Recovery software for failing HDD

On Fri, 29 Sep 2017 18:40:57 -0400, Paul wrote:

I'm surprised more people don't back up, given the
dangerous times we live in (WannaCrypt or equiv).

My goal, not always achieved, is to create a full backup of each PC at
least once a year. My latest backups are dated from February 2016, so
last year is covered and I have just three months to get a 2017 backup
set churned out.

I'm not recommending my backup strategy to others.

--

Char Jackson

Char Jackson wrote:
On Fri, 29 Sep 2017 18:40:57 -0400, Paul wrote:

I'm surprised more people don't back up, given the
dangerous times we live in (WannaCrypt or equiv).

My goal, not always achieved, is to create a full backup of each PC at
least once a year. My latest backups are dated from February 2016, so
last year is covered and I have just three months to get a 2017 backup
set churned out.

I'm not recommending my backup strategy to others.

Once a year? That's like really old if you had to restore before that
annual backup. For me, I do it monthly. For every other days and/or
weekly, I do my data backups (stuff that can't be recovered).

--
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between men and ants." --stranger; "And we're eat-able ants. I found
that out... What will they do with us?" --Pierson from H.G. Wells' The
War of the Worlds
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My back ups are monthly with the rest done daily


--
AL'S COMPUTERS
"Ant" wrote in message
...
Char Jackson wrote:
On Fri, 29 Sep 2017 18:40:57 -0400, Paul wrote:

I'm surprised more people don't back up, given the
dangerous times we live in (WannaCrypt or equiv).

My goal, not always achieved, is to create a full backup of each PC at
least once a year. My latest backups are dated from February 2016, so
last year is covered and I have just three months to get a 2017 backup
set churned out.

I'm not recommending my backup strategy to others.

Once a year? That's like really old if you had to restore before that
annual backup. For me, I do it monthly. For every other days and/or
weekly, I do my data backups (stuff that can't be recovered).

--
Quote of the Week: "Yeah, what's left of it. I was in the militia --
national guard... That's good! Wasn't any war any more than there's war
between men and ants." --stranger; "And we're eat-able ants. I found
that out... What will they do with us?" --Pierson from H.G. Wells' The
War of the Worlds
Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see
this signature correctly.
/\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
/ /\ /\ \ Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net
| |o o| |
\ _ / Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail privately. If credit-
( ) ing, then please kindly use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link.

On Fri, 29 Sep 2017 19:41:55 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
wrote:

In message ,
writes:
[]
Just for the record, my problem partition G: is not seen at all under
Win2000. It just says "this partition needs to be formatted".

(Did it see it before it went wrong?)

Yes, along with all my other partitions.
I only use 120gb drives because Win98 cant access any larger. But two of
them is all I need. I have 7 partitions total, and each has it's
purpose. Unfortunately G: is the one that failed and the one that is
strictly storage.


My backups have always been just plain copies. I copy the entire
partition to my portable drives. That has always worked fine, unless

It will, for 98 and earlier; it won't for XP (well, it will for other
than the system disc).

something errors out and causes the copy process to stop. That normally

That's always been my bugbear with the copy process. I use SyncToy,
which I _think_ will carry on after a hiccup, though I'm not sure.
(Don't know if it works on '98 though.) [It also - as it's name hints -
only copies changed files, so is a lot quicker.]

Yea, I never understood why MS made the copy process stop. All it needs
to do is post a notice at the end saying file**** was not copied. Once I
had a saved website, and the default filename of that website exceeded
the long filename size limit. Every time I tried to copy files, it would
stop at that file. Talk about annoying. It took hours to figure out
which file was the faulty one. Then it would not allow me to rename it.
I finally deleted it using Dos.

Lesson learned, I always check filenames when saving a website now. Some
are insanely long. I manually trim them before saving them now.

dont happen, except to try to copy the WINDOWS folder. I can copy my
Win98 folders though, when I am booted to W2000. I do however delete the
Swap file before copying.

I have done this for decades and it always worked fine. The important
data I am missing is mostly electronic schematics and manuals. Some are
near impossible to replace. I dont need a newer OS to use that stuff,

(All that you've acquired since the last backup?)

Yes, last backup was May 2017. I have about 20% of it on that backup.
Everything else was added since.

and I have always felt safer having data on a Win98 machine, and using
FAT. I've had XP fail numerous times, and the HDDs cant just be plugged
into another computer, and expect XP to run. Win98 can be transferred to

That's why I image it (my main system is XP). I use Macrium 5, which I
boot from a mini-CD. (It has drivers for external [USB - well, it can do
network too, though I've not tried that] drives, and works fine with my
1 TB one.) The process, as you'd expect, takes no longer than a copy
would.

another computer quite easily, with only a few drivers added. I've also
felt safer using FAT, versus NTFS, because FAT can always be accessed
from DOS. However, in this case, that is not helping.
I too feel that way about FAT versus NTFS. (However, apart from a disc
dying, I've not had XP crash for years, and that may have _something_ to
do with it being on NTFS.)

Either way, I plan to install a 3rd HDD, now that I know I can. I may

(You could even add it without removing the CD, by making one master and
one slave, though if as I think you've said the CD is faulty, you might
as well remove it at the same time.)

That CD drive was unplugged years ago. I didn't remove the dead drive,
just unplugged the data and power cables. But the cable is still in the
computer, doing nothing.

first have to go on ebay and order a few drives, although I think I may
have a working 80gb drive in my spare parts. I know I have a few 40gb or
smaller, but to copy that entire partition, I need no smaller than 50gb.
I just ordered a brand new 120gb to replace this failing one. It was not

I didn't know you could still get new EIDE drives! Are you sure it's
new? Either way, might still be worth checking its SMART readout (using
a USB-EIDE cable-and-power-supply from your XP computer) before
committing to it.

Yes it's new. Ebay has everything..... The 120gb is new, but I also
bought a 160gb used one. It was so cheap I could not pass it up, and
guaranteed to work. I figure I can plug that one on one of my XP
machines and try to duplicate this defective one, before I mess with it.

expensive, so I may just order another one, or an 80 or something like
that.

Thanks for the help from all who have helped.



Do tell us how you get on!

In message ,
writes:
[]
I only use 120gb drives because Win98 cant access any larger. But two of

Ah, right.
[]
Yea, I never understood why MS made the copy process stop. All it needs
to do is post a notice at the end saying file**** was not copied. Once I

Or it could stop to tell you (that would avoid it having to store up a
potentially long list of fails), but at least carry on when you click
OK. Stopping the copy is indeed infuriating, as you don't know what it
has copied and what it hasn't, since it probably does it in a different
order than you would. But we're stuck with it.

had a saved website, and the default filename of that website exceeded
the long filename size limit. Every time I tried to copy files, it would
stop at that file. Talk about annoying. It took hours to figure out
which file was the faulty one. Then it would not allow me to rename it.
I finally deleted it using Dos.

Interesting that you could create it in the first place: obviously
whatever you are using to save websites isn't aware of the limit.
[]
data I am missing is mostly electronic schematics and manuals. Some are
near impossible to replace. I dont need a newer OS to use that stuff,

(All that you've acquired since the last backup?)

Yes, last backup was May 2017. I have about 20% of it on that backup.
Everything else was added since.

You've already mentioned that you've decided you'll be backing up more
often now (-:. I know the problem ... [I'm curious: what are they
schematics and manuals _of/for_? Especially that they're nearly
irreplaceable?]
[]
(You could even add it without removing the CD, by making one master and
one slave, though if as I think you've said the CD is faulty, you might
as well remove it at the same time.)

That CD drive was unplugged years ago. I didn't remove the dead drive,
just unplugged the data and power cables. But the cable is still in the
computer, doing nothing.

You'll need somewhere to _physically_ put the third drive - if you don't
have space in the existing drive cage for it, maybe where the CD drive
was will do, with a suitable adapter. (I did that on a friend's one
recently, where he'd upgraded to a motherboard that didn't have IDE, and
the old ZIP drive - which was in such an adapter - was thus redundant.
The adapter fitted a HD fine.)
[]
I didn't know you could still get new EIDE drives! Are you sure it's
new? Either way, might still be worth checking its SMART readout (using
a USB-EIDE cable-and-power-supply from your XP computer) before
committing to it.

Yes it's new. Ebay has everything..... The 120gb is new, but I also
bought a 160gb used one. It was so cheap I could not pass it up, and
guaranteed to work. I figure I can plug that one on one of my XP
machines and try to duplicate this defective one, before I mess with it.

Sounds like a plan. However, I'd make quite sure it _is_ working first,
regardless of the guarantee - all the guarantee will do is get you your
money back, not all the time you've wasted playing with it. Assuming you
can find an IDE socket on the motherboard of one of your XP machines,
run that utility I suggested on it - at least twice, ideally a few days
apart, then it will tell you if the SMART parameters are deteriorating
(and give you a predicted failure date if they are, though it may be
next century!). That only looks at the SMART data of course: there's
also one which Paul often recommends that draws a curve of how the
access speed varies across the disc (that's what it's designed for, and
is reflected in its name); this should give a smooth curve (HDs are
fastest near the start), with a few spikes downwards where XP was doing
something else for a moment while it was measuring. If any of those
spikes have appreciable width, it's a bad patch on the drive. (Or if
they're always in the same place on successive runs.)

Obviously running those - the SMART utility and the speed one - on your
failing drive would be interesting too, though it sounds as if it
definitely has a pimple.
[]
Do tell us how you get on!

(I've added the '98 'group in.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

The fifth bestselling detail of all time: the Ford Transit. (RT/C4 2015-5-24.)

After being told about this program to assist in doing the cloning and
data recovery of my failed HDD, I did some looking up ddrescue. All I am
seeing is the Linux version, and worse yet, it requires doing it by the
command line. To me, this means I may as well just toss my failed drive
in the garbage and say goodbye to my data. I have never had any luck
with anything Linux, and if it involves the Linux command line, it's
time to "hang up the phone". On top of that, it appears that to even run
this thing means it needs to be burned to a DVD. That means I will first
have to buy a DVD burner, and blank media. NO THANKS!!!! (That DVD
burner would proably never be used again).

I cant believe there is not something similar that runs in Windows, or
even from Dos, which is just as good. I prefer to stay away from Linux
as far as possible. I will run anything that works on Win9x or WinXP, or
even DOS. (I am not afraid to use Dos command lines, because I was
raised on Dos).

So, what else is there? I'll even purchase commercial software if it's
not over $50. But what do I use?

I just cant believe there is nothing that runs on Windows or Dos, and
think it's sort of ridiculous to have to use Linux to fix a Windows
drive.

---

One other thing, according to Norton Disk Doctor (for Win9x), the FAT
table is defective. There is supposed to be a second copy of the FAT
table, How can I swap to the second copy, and is it possible to swap
back if that dont work?


Yes, I know this dont apply to Windows 7, but I am sure all of this info
would work for 7 as well.... I just use Win98 by personal choice and
also have XP available.

On Wed, 04 Oct 2017 02:04:28 -0400, wrote:

After being told about this program to assist in doing the cloning and
data recovery of my failed HDD, I did some looking up ddrescue. All I am
seeing is the Linux version, and worse yet, it requires doing it by the
command line. To me, this means I may as well just toss my failed drive
in the garbage and say goodbye to my data. I have never had any luck
with anything Linux, and if it involves the Linux command line, it's
time to "hang up the phone". On top of that, it appears that to even run
this thing means it needs to be burned to a DVD. That means I will first
have to buy a DVD burner, and blank media. NO THANKS!!!! (That DVD
burner would proably never be used again).

I cant believe there is not something similar that runs in Windows, or
even from Dos, which is just as good. I prefer to stay away from Linux
as far as possible. I will run anything that works on Win9x or WinXP, or
even DOS. (I am not afraid to use Dos command lines, because I was
raised on Dos).

So, what else is there? I'll even purchase commercial software if it's
not over $50. But what do I use?

I just cant believe there is nothing that runs on Windows or Dos, and
think it's sort of ridiculous to have to use Linux to fix a Windows
drive.

---

One other thing, according to Norton Disk Doctor (for Win9x), the FAT
table is defective. There is supposed to be a second copy of the FAT
table, How can I swap to the second copy, and is it possible to swap
back if that dont work?


Yes, I know this dont apply to Windows 7, but I am sure all of this info
would work for 7 as well.... I just use Win98 by personal choice and
also have XP available.

There a list of choices for Windows he

https://alternativeto.net/software/d...atform=windows

wrote:
After being told about this program to assist in doing the cloning and
data recovery of my failed HDD, I did some looking up ddrescue. All I am
seeing is the Linux version, and worse yet, it requires doing it by the
command line. To me, this means I may as well just toss my failed drive
in the garbage and say goodbye to my data. I have never had any luck
with anything Linux, and if it involves the Linux command line, it's
time to "hang up the phone". On top of that, it appears that to even run
this thing means it needs to be burned to a DVD. That means I will first
have to buy a DVD burner, and blank media. NO THANKS!!!! (That DVD
burner would proably never be used again).

I cant believe there is not something similar that runs in Windows, or
even from Dos, which is just as good. I prefer to stay away from Linux
as far as possible. I will run anything that works on Win9x or WinXP, or
even DOS. (I am not afraid to use Dos command lines, because I was
raised on Dos).

So, what else is there? I'll even purchase commercial software if it's
not over $50. But what do I use?

I just cant believe there is nothing that runs on Windows or Dos, and
think it's sort of ridiculous to have to use Linux to fix a Windows
drive.

---

One other thing, according to Norton Disk Doctor (for Win9x), the FAT
table is defective. There is supposed to be a second copy of the FAT
table, How can I swap to the second copy, and is it possible to swap
back if that dont work?


Yes, I know this dont apply to Windows 7, but I am sure all of this info
would work for 7 as well.... I just use Win98 by personal choice and
also have XP available.


I didn't know about the first answer here, until happening on it.
I've never had a disk fall into the gray zone, to test all
these utilities and spot this. When I have a (really) bad disk, it dies
before I can get any data off.

https://www.data-medics.com/forum/ho...scue-t133.html

"Why you can't clone in Windows:

There are a great number of Windows based data recovery and
backup programs out there which make claims of being able to
clone hard drives with bad sectors. This may be partly true, as
some employ bad sector skipping code to jump ahead a large number
of sectors when a bad sector is hit and attempt to continue.

However none are well suited to the task simply because all
Windows based applications rely on the Windows host controller
to interface with the drive. Currently there is no known
workaround for this in Windows. The Windows host controller
unfortunately does not allow software running in Windows to
directly control ATA commands issued to the drive (such as
read timeouts) which are necessary to effectively clone as much
data as possible from hard drive with bad sectors. Fortunately
there is another OS capable of running on your computer that
does not suffer from these same constraints...."

AFAIK, the disk drive itself can hold up the process for 15 seconds
per sector, unless you have a drive with TLER in which case the time
constant can be reduced to the 5 to 7 second range. The disk drive
will try a *ton* of times itself, to read a bad sector.

*******

http://www.cgsecurity.org/wiki/Advanced_FAT_Repair

"Repair FAT tables

File Allocation Tables are maps of the data region, indicating
which clusters are used by files and directories. To repair the
FAT, the menu Repair FAT will have TestDisk compare the two FAT
copies. If the FATs mismatch (sector by sector check) or contains
errors, *TestDisk* uses the FAT copy with less errors and removes
the obvious errors. This function must only be used on FAT
filesystems with correct values in the boot sector. It has been
used with success when scandisk, chkdsk or fsck.vfat crashed or
refused to repair the filesystem.
"

TestDisk 7 is available from that site, and runs in Windows.
For example, on partitions with the "hidden" attribute,
ones without drive letters like System Reserved, you can
use the "file listing" interface, to actually list the
contents of a hidden partition. The interface is a
bitch :-) Press "control-c" to quit at any time. You'll
eventually learn how to use it... somehow...

TestDisk is also on the Linux DVD.

*******

If you have a USB stick, one big enough to hold a 1.6GB Linux
ISO file, the recent distros are UEFI hybrids with direct dd
transfer capability. You can prepare a USB stick, just by
downloading a Linux distro and transferring it to the USB
stick, sector by sector.

http://www.chrysocome.net/dd

# This assumes the second drive seen in Windows is the USB stick.
# Harddisk0 is the first disk. Harddisk1 is the second disk etc.
# The block size should divide evenly into the size of the ISO.
# The ISOs were properly padded to 1MB (1048576) byte multiples,
# but newer ones are only guaranteed to be a multiple of the optical
# disk sector size of 2048 bytes. I use "factor.exe" to factor the
# size number and work out an optimal block size.

dd if=c:\temp\linux.iso of=\\?\Device\Harddisk1\Partition0 bs=2048

That's to illustrate you *can* prepare Linux boot materials
from Windows. No CD needed (except on year 2005 computers or older,
that don't boot from USB).

http://www.chrysocome.net/downloads/dd-0.6beta3.zip

There are other tools for preparing boot USBs.

*******

For certain classes of disk problems, you have to
drop to *real DOS*. Count your lucky stars that
Linux, with GUI convenience, exists for at least some
of the problems you might encounter as an amateur
data recovery specialist. One of my problems is,
getting my DOS floppy to boot on modern computers.
It's almost impossible (can't figure out how to
modify memory map to make it fully functional).
It took a lot of trials on my Asrock 4Core to make
that work, but I eventually stumbled on the correct
values. I haven't been as lucky on newer kit.

HTH,
Paul