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Scheduling Relative To Sunrise/Sunset?



 
 
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  #16  
Old May 16th 12, 08:32 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Gene E. Bloch[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7,485
Default Scheduling Relative To Sunrise/Sunset?

On Tue, 15 May 2012 18:46:09 -0700, Gene E. Bloch wrote:

If it's true that the sunwait program is not robust in Windows, maybe
it's possible to get the source and rejigger it in Java, if you don't
have a C compiler.


Here are some other programs that I found in Google.

http://unix.stackexchange.com/questi...e-command-line
http://sidstation.loudet.org/suntimes-en.xhtml
http://sidstation.loudet.org/sunazimuth-en.xhtml
http://unix.stackexchange.com/questi...e-command-line
http://stenarson.com/projects/suncron/
http://ptaff.ca/crepyscule/api/publi...le-module.html

Several are for *nix; the first two are for Windows and seem to be the
same thing with different names (or vames :-)

I tried the first one. It works, but its use and output are, IMO,
clumsy. Also, the results are in UTC, so you'd have to convert the times
(or use a fake longitude), if you could even extract them from the
output...

Given the large number of hits I saw for *nix, maybe you should consider
using a server running some flavor of that.

Now I'll go away before you get annoyed at all this stuff I keep
throwing at you :-)

--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)
Ads
  #17  
Old May 16th 12, 08:33 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Gene E. Bloch[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7,485
Default Scheduling Relative To Sunrise/Sunset?

On Tue, 15 May 2012 20:16:51 -0500, Char Jackson wrote:

On Tue, 15 May 2012 13:51:16 -0700, "Gene E. Bloch"
wrote:

On Tue, 15 May 2012 13:26:00 -0400, (PeteCresswell) wrote:

Per Dave-UK:

Could you not switch the camera on/off with a light-sensitive switch ?

Sounds like a good fallback position - assuming the server
handles the camera's going offline/online gracefully.

It's powered via POE, so it would just be a matter of turning the
POE switch off/on.

Thanks!


An alternative to that might be to have software that senses the state
of the photocell and does a clean start and stop of the camera program.

Luckily, I don't have to say how to do it :-)

I *would* say it's possible. What comes to my mind is something like
this: connect the photocell to an input line on a microcontroller, and
have it communicate over USB to the computer to trigger the action.

Talk about overkill :-)


Let's Rube Goldberg it! :-)


Great idea! Although I think I got pretty close already.

--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)
  #18  
Old May 16th 12, 08:39 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Gene E. Bloch[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7,485
Default Scheduling Relative To Sunrise/Sunset?

On Wed, 16 May 2012 18:23:15 +0100, Ed Cryer wrote:

(PeteCresswell) wrote:
I've got an IP camera hooked into a server at a remote location.

The server is FTP-ing a constant series to 20-second video clips
to another location. Each clip is about a meg in size.

So far, so good...

Problem is that the camera goes nuts after dark and the clips
come out to be 10-20 megs - basically of darkness with some
lights on a distant shore.

What I want to do is kill the server around sundown and start it
up after sunrise.

To that end, I'd need something to help scheduler out.

So far, all I can come up with is
http://www.risacher.org/sunwait/

Problem is that, although the developer has compiled it to a
.EXE, it has not been tested - and it seems to have problems
parsing the command line.

So, bottom line: Does anybody know of a way to schedule jobs
relative to sunrise/sunset?


I've been hit by a wise thought while pondering on this matter. It is
this. A problem has arisen, and we're all racking our brains for a
solution, but we're drifting from the actual cause of the problem into
its symptoms and offering solutions for those.

Now then, the cause is quote "the camera goes nuts after dark.......".
Solve that and the problem goes away.
Is that the norm for this make? Can it be cured? Why does it take more
space to deal with a dark world? Flash?
My own digital cameras use less space when I take a snap in the dark.

Ed


In addition to what (PeteCresswell) said, consider that a dark and noisy
signal is very random, so it won't compress well (no pun is intended on
your name, Pete).

That said, I thoroughly agree with what you said. To me, the best
solution would be a camera that stops sending data when there isn't any
useful stuff, or a camera that can be turned on & off by a photocell
without disturbing the link-up. Or maybe some infrared lamps that are
turned on when its dark, and provide enough light to solve the noise
problem.

Geez - I just promised Pete that I'd go away, and here I am again. Bad
boy...

--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)
  #19  
Old May 16th 12, 11:50 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
J. P. Gilliver (John)
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,291
Default Scheduling Relative To Sunrise/Sunset?

In message , Gene E. Bloch
writes:
[]
In addition to what (PeteCresswell) said, consider that a dark and noisy
signal is very random, so it won't compress well (no pun is intended on
your name, Pete).

That said, I thoroughly agree with what you said. To me, the best
solution would be a camera that stops sending data when there isn't any
useful stuff, or a camera that can be turned on & off by a photocell
without disturbing the link-up. Or maybe some infrared lamps that are
turned on when its dark, and provide enough light to solve the noise
problem.

[]
Or just turn off the camera's AGC - if it _can_ be turned off. I would
be surprised if it _actually_ produces any more noise in the dark - it's
just that the gain gets turned up. (Though these days I suspect the AGC
is built in, and may not be disable-able.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G.5AL-IS-P--Ch++(p)Ar@T0H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

once described by Eccentrica Golumbits as the best bang since the big one ...
(first series, fit the second)
  #20  
Old May 17th 12, 02:22 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
(PeteCresswell)
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,933
Default Scheduling Relative To Sunrise/Sunset?

Per Ed Cryer:

I can't help but return to the webcam. Get one that doesn't have that
fault; because it is a fault! Cams are pretty cheap these days.


This one was close to a thousand bucks. IP-66 weatherproof,
survivability outdoors in a salt-water environment, POE, a
certain resolution..... Plus the fact that I went in to this
knowing that 640x480 was not going tb adequate - but not knowing
how high a rez we would really need.

In retrospect, it's probably a certain degree of overkill now
that I know that we could (maybe even will *have* to bco
bandwidth limitations) probably use something with lower rez, but
no way something like that is going tb cheap like the $80 640x480
FosCams I've been playing around with at home.

I think the night noise thing is a red herring of my own making.
Nobody cares what the cam is putting out at night, except for the
high-volume videos that wind up clogging the FTP que. That was
fixed in about 10 minutes with a couple of scheduled .BAT files.
The Sunrise/Sunset thing was just a nice-to-have so the process
would not require attention as the seasons change.

Finally, I still would not rule out RCI on my part. Maybe
there's a setting in the cam that would have mitigated the night
noise. There are a *lot* of settings in this thing.... -)
--
Pete Cresswell
  #21  
Old May 17th 12, 02:56 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
Char Jackson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,449
Default Scheduling Relative To Sunrise/Sunset?

On Wed, 16 May 2012 21:22:14 -0400, "(PeteCresswell)"
wrote:

Per Ed Cryer:

I can't help but return to the webcam. Get one that doesn't have that
fault; because it is a fault! Cams are pretty cheap these days.


This one was close to a thousand bucks. IP-66 weatherproof,
survivability outdoors in a salt-water environment, POE, a
certain resolution..... Plus the fact that I went in to this
knowing that 640x480 was not going tb adequate - but not knowing
how high a rez we would really need.


This is a pretty nice outdoor camera for $299:
http://gopro.com/cameras/hd-hero2-outdoor-edition/

This feature, "Live Streaming Video and Photos to the Web", is 'coming
soon', so it's apparently not capable at the moment, unfortunately. My
son uses a camera from the GoPro series and loves it.

--

Char Jackson
  #22  
Old May 17th 12, 04:33 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
Paul
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 18,275
Default Scheduling Relative To Sunrise/Sunset?

(PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per Ed Cryer:
I can't help but return to the webcam. Get one that doesn't have that
fault; because it is a fault! Cams are pretty cheap these days.


This one was close to a thousand bucks. IP-66 weatherproof,
survivability outdoors in a salt-water environment, POE, a
certain resolution..... Plus the fact that I went in to this
knowing that 640x480 was not going tb adequate - but not knowing
how high a rez we would really need.

In retrospect, it's probably a certain degree of overkill now
that I know that we could (maybe even will *have* to bco
bandwidth limitations) probably use something with lower rez, but
no way something like that is going tb cheap like the $80 640x480
FosCams I've been playing around with at home.

I think the night noise thing is a red herring of my own making.
Nobody cares what the cam is putting out at night, except for the
high-volume videos that wind up clogging the FTP que. That was
fixed in about 10 minutes with a couple of scheduled .BAT files.
The Sunrise/Sunset thing was just a nice-to-have so the process
would not require attention as the seasons change.

Finally, I still would not rule out RCI on my part. Maybe
there's a setting in the cam that would have mitigated the night
noise. There are a *lot* of settings in this thing.... -)


At a thousand bucks, it's possible the camera has a "day/night"
IR filter, which can be switched in and out. IR filters are sometimes
"fixed" on color cameras, to improve color balance in daylight.
Surveillance cameras can have that filter set up on a shutter, so
it can be move into or out of the optical path.

When the IR filter is removed, and the user provides a LED based IR
illuminator, it's possible to improve the nighttime noise situation.
With the IR filter removed inside the camera (config setting), the IR illuminator
can light up the scene.

Cameras have a "noise floor", where you see random sparkling pixels under
low light. If the camera captures in a compressed format. the sparkling pixels
resist compression, and the file size (or streaming speed) increases. That
could be what you're seeing. If the camera captured in an uncompressed format,
then there'd be no difference between daytime and nighttime data rate.

Good camera sensors use things like HAD. I don't think Sony will sell their
HAD sensors to companies making web cams, and web cams just don't have the
same qualities as these things do. But even with a technology like this,
you still need illumination to make it work.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hole_Accumulation_Diode

IR illuminators come in "light bulb + gel filter" type, or ones
that are based on true IR LEDs. The IR LEDs emit far enough
outside human visual range, that the illuminator would go undetected
by the naked eye. (Perhaps you could "feel" the heat, but not see the
light.) And the IR illuminator would only work well, if the IR filter
is "switched out" on the camera (such as at night).

http://www.supercircuits.com/Infrared-Illuminators/IR25

If I was a B&E specialist, and I drove to your site, I
could "preview" the site with a camcorder, as the IR
illuminator will show up in the camcorder view of the property.
It's just the human eye that can't see them, whereas silicon
sensors would be able to pick it up. And if I could detect
the IR illuminator, then I'd know there was a camera present.

Paul
  #23  
Old May 17th 12, 03:48 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
(PeteCresswell)
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,933
Default Scheduling Relative To Sunrise/Sunset?

Per Paul:
If I was a B&E specialist, and I drove to your site, I
could "preview" the site with a camcorder, as the IR
illuminator will show up in the camcorder view of the property.
It's just the human eye that can't see them, whereas silicon
sensors would be able to pick it up. And if I could detect
the IR illuminator, then I'd know there was a camera present.


Believe-it-or-not, it was early in the game when I stumbled on to
the realization that I did *not* want IR at night. Not that I
knew anything about the camcorder thing, of course....

But just from the red glow it seemed like it must be pretty
obvious to the passing crackhead that there was an object up
there worth stealing.

It kind of wonders me that the standard IR illumination gives off
that human-visible glow.
--
Pete Cresswell
  #24  
Old May 17th 12, 06:34 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Paul
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 18,275
Default Scheduling Relative To Sunrise/Sunset?

(PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per Paul:
If I was a B&E specialist, and I drove to your site, I
could "preview" the site with a camcorder, as the IR
illuminator will show up in the camcorder view of the property.
It's just the human eye that can't see them, whereas silicon
sensors would be able to pick it up. And if I could detect
the IR illuminator, then I'd know there was a camera present.


Believe-it-or-not, it was early in the game when I stumbled on to
the realization that I did *not* want IR at night. Not that I
knew anything about the camcorder thing, of course....

But just from the red glow it seemed like it must be pretty
obvious to the passing crackhead that there was an object up
there worth stealing.

It kind of wonders me that the standard IR illumination gives off
that human-visible glow.


The illuminator based on a light bulb plus a gel filter, the
passband extends into the visible. This is a function of how
effective the filter is, at removing visible light.

IR LEDs on the other hand, emit at a specific wavelength (but
the spectrum analyser plot is a bump rather than a vertical line).
The center wavelength plus "shoulder" is supposed to be outside
the human visual threshold.

If you had an IR laser diode, then the spectral output of that
would be a sharper line on a spectral plot. LEDs are "sloppy"
on spectrum. (Page 3 here has an example. Central peak at 940nm
and shoulder stops at around 980nm. LED suitable for a TV remote control.
Some visible LEDs I've looked at in the past, had a 200nm wide bump.
So the spectrum on this one, is relatively tight in terms of
numbers of nm.)

http://media.digikey.com/pdf/Data%20.../HSDL-4270.pdf

Infrared illuminators use large numbers of LEDs like that. When I did
a quick check, I don't see infrared LEDs available in the high power
LED families used for illumination (1 watt or 5 watt LED). So a company
making an illuminator, may need to use bunches of the small ones. That
particular LED has a max of 100mA current, and you'd want to run it at
somewhat less than that.

One of the problems with LEDs for illumination (i.e. all those LED light
bulb replacements at the store), is cooling. LEDs can't really take
an elevated junction temperature. Which is why the LED light bulbs are
shaped with cooling in mind. And putting the LED lightbulb into a
traditional "enclosure" with no cooling, is bad for it. So when
incandescent bulbs disappear, the replacement technologies are
happier to be out in the open, for cooling reasons. While that LED
in the above datasheet may have a 100mA rating, how close you
can get to applying that current (and having a long life) may
depend on the resulting junction temperature.

So imagine a surveillance application "lit by 1000 TV remote controls",
where you cannot see the light.

In terms of seeing IR with a camcorder, there is another device you
can get. Radioshack used to sell a card with an IR sensitive end on it.
276-1099. (I have one here.) You "charge" the card in visible light,
like from an ordinary lamp. Then, hold items like your TV remote
(using IR LED) next to the "brown end" of the card, then press a button
on the remote. You can see the rate that the command burst on the remote
is repeated by doing that. A "dot" of light sent by the remote, shows up
in the brown area, as a visible glow. This is effectively a kind of
"frequency shifting", and useful for testing remotes without
digging for the camcorder.

http://loisirflip.fr/Pinrepair/www.p...c/wpcopto2.jpg

The pricing on these cards is ridiculous, presumably because not many
companies make them. This one is $14.55. The Radio Shack one might have
been $5 or so, and I still considered that to be a rip-off.

http://www.mcmelectronics.com/produc...-6771-/72-6771

Paul
  #25  
Old May 17th 12, 07:43 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
DanS[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,021
Default Scheduling Relative To Sunrise/Sunset?

"Gene E. Bloch" wrote in
:

On Tue, 15 May 2012 13:26:00 -0400, (PeteCresswell) wrote:

Per Dave-UK:

Could you not switch the camera on/off with a
light-sensitive switch ?


Sounds like a good fallback position - assuming the server
handles the camera's going offline/online gracefully.

It's powered via POE, so it would just be a matter of
turning the POE switch off/on.

Thanks!


An alternative to that might be to have software that
senses the state of the photocell and does a clean start
and stop of the camera program.

Luckily, I don't have to say how to do it :-)

I *would* say it's possible. What comes to my mind is
something like this: connect the photocell to an input line
on a microcontroller, and have it communicate over USB to
the computer to trigger the action.

Talk about overkill :-)


Yes....over kill.

On the right track, just not KISS-compliant.....

If the PC has a (RS232) serial port, you could easily connect
the photocell to the CTS input through a resistor divider, or a
pot wired as a resistor divider, and set it for the amount of
light needed to assert CTS. A very small and simple VB program
could be written to start/stop the camera program as necessary.
(There's usually some level of hysteresis on a PC serial port,
but if necessary, a logic chip w/hysteresis could be used as a
buffer.










  #26  
Old May 17th 12, 08:21 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Char Jackson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,449
Default Scheduling Relative To Sunrise/Sunset?

On Thu, 17 May 2012 13:43:22 -0500, DanS
wrote:

"Gene E. Bloch" wrote in
:

On Tue, 15 May 2012 13:26:00 -0400, (PeteCresswell) wrote:

Per Dave-UK:

Could you not switch the camera on/off with a
light-sensitive switch ?

Sounds like a good fallback position - assuming the server
handles the camera's going offline/online gracefully.

It's powered via POE, so it would just be a matter of
turning the POE switch off/on.

Thanks!


An alternative to that might be to have software that
senses the state of the photocell and does a clean start
and stop of the camera program.

Luckily, I don't have to say how to do it :-)

I *would* say it's possible. What comes to my mind is
something like this: connect the photocell to an input line
on a microcontroller, and have it communicate over USB to
the computer to trigger the action.

Talk about overkill :-)


Yes....over kill.

On the right track, just not KISS-compliant.....

If the PC has a (RS232) serial port, you could easily connect
the photocell to the CTS input through a resistor divider, or a
pot wired as a resistor divider, and set it for the amount of
light needed to assert CTS. A very small and simple VB program
could be written to start/stop the camera program as necessary.
(There's usually some level of hysteresis on a PC serial port,
but if necessary, a logic chip w/hysteresis could be used as a
buffer.


Hmm, nice, but I'd still prefer to see a solution that includes a golf
ball dropping on a mouse trap. Extra points for including a series of
toppling dominoes. ;-)

Not dissing your solution, just having fun.

--

Char Jackson
  #27  
Old May 17th 12, 08:24 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Paul
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 18,275
Default Scheduling Relative To Sunrise/Sunset?

DanS wrote:
"Gene E. Bloch" wrote in
:

On Tue, 15 May 2012 13:26:00 -0400, (PeteCresswell) wrote:

Per Dave-UK:
Could you not switch the camera on/off with a
light-sensitive switch ?
Sounds like a good fallback position - assuming the server
handles the camera's going offline/online gracefully.

It's powered via POE, so it would just be a matter of
turning the POE switch off/on.

Thanks!

An alternative to that might be to have software that
senses the state of the photocell and does a clean start
and stop of the camera program.

Luckily, I don't have to say how to do it :-)

I *would* say it's possible. What comes to my mind is
something like this: connect the photocell to an input line
on a microcontroller, and have it communicate over USB to
the computer to trigger the action.

Talk about overkill :-)


Yes....over kill.

On the right track, just not KISS-compliant.....

If the PC has a (RS232) serial port, you could easily connect
the photocell to the CTS input through a resistor divider, or a
pot wired as a resistor divider, and set it for the amount of
light needed to assert CTS. A very small and simple VB program
could be written to start/stop the camera program as necessary.
(There's usually some level of hysteresis on a PC serial port,
but if necessary, a logic chip w/hysteresis could be used as a
buffer.


This is an example of another way to do it. This is a
USB to byte-wide logic input chip, with synchronous and
asynchronous options. Perhaps you could cook up a logic
input with something like this (if the SDK is easy to use).

http://www.ftdichip.com/Products/ICs/FT245R.htm

Using the part number, you can find little development boards
with the chip on it. The "FT245 TinyBoard" being the first
hit in a search engine.

http://www.oxisso.com/Misc/index.html

In previous times, a PCI card with buffers might have been used
to do a similar thing. But now, there are USB devices for home
projects.

Paul
  #28  
Old May 17th 12, 08:58 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
J. P. Gilliver (John)
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,291
Default Scheduling Relative To Sunrise/Sunset?

In message , Paul
writes:
(PeteCresswell) wrote:

[]
It kind of wonders me that the standard IR illumination gives off
that human-visible glow.


The illuminator based on a light bulb plus a gel filter, the
passband extends into the visible. This is a function of how
effective the filter is, at removing visible light.

IR LEDs on the other hand, emit at a specific wavelength (but
the spectrum analyser plot is a bump rather than a vertical line).
The center wavelength plus "shoulder" is supposed to be outside
the human visual threshold.


Well it isn't. Every camera I've played with that claims to have night
vision (and I'm sure does) by using IR LEDs, has ones which make a
perfectly visible red glow; as Pete says, it seems odd that they are.
[]
So imagine a surveillance application "lit by 1000 TV remote controls",
where you cannot see the light.


I'm not sure if remotes use truly non-visible ones, or just sufficiently
low power that you wouldn't anyway: a lot of them also seem to have a
filter (which looks black to us). Though I've just tried my nearest one
(which doesn't have a filter) and I can't see it at all.
[]
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G.5AL-IS-P--Ch++(p)Ar@T0H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

What would be unusual would be if there weren't any coincidences at all for
several days in a row. Andy Roberts (UMRAt), 23rd. October 1998.
  #29  
Old May 17th 12, 10:07 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
DanS[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,021
Default Scheduling Relative To Sunrise/Sunset?

Char Jackson wrote in
:

On Thu, 17 May 2012 13:43:22 -0500, DanS
wrote:

"Gene E. Bloch" wrote in
:

On Tue, 15 May 2012 13:26:00 -0400, (PeteCresswell)
wrote:

Per Dave-UK:

Could you not switch the camera on/off with a
light-sensitive switch ?

Sounds like a good fallback position - assuming the
server handles the camera's going offline/online
gracefully.

It's powered via POE, so it would just be a matter of
turning the POE switch off/on.

Thanks!

An alternative to that might be to have software that
senses the state of the photocell and does a clean start
and stop of the camera program.

Luckily, I don't have to say how to do it :-)

I *would* say it's possible. What comes to my mind is
something like this: connect the photocell to an input
line on a microcontroller, and have it communicate over
USB to the computer to trigger the action.

Talk about overkill :-)


Yes....over kill.

On the right track, just not KISS-compliant.....

If the PC has a (RS232) serial port, you could easily
connect the photocell to the CTS input through a resistor
divider, or a pot wired as a resistor divider, and set it
for the amount of light needed to assert CTS. A very small
and simple VB program could be written to start/stop the
camera program as necessary. (There's usually some level of
hysteresis on a PC serial port, but if necessary, a logic
chip w/hysteresis could be used as a buffer.


Hmm, nice, but I'd still prefer to see a solution that
includes a golf ball dropping on a mouse trap. Extra points
for including a series of toppling dominoes. ;-)

Not dissing your solution, just having fun.


I removed the golf ball/mouse trap and dominoes when I saw it
would take 100 times the complexity to mechanically reset all
that stuff each day, twice a day.





  #30  
Old May 17th 12, 10:51 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
(PeteCresswell)
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,933
Default Scheduling Relative To Sunrise/Sunset?

Per J. P. Gilliver (John):
. Every camera I've played with that claims to have night
vision (and I'm sure does) by using IR LEDs, has ones which make a
perfectly visible red glow; as Pete says, it seems odd that they are.


I've read references to IRs that emit on a different freq that is
not visible to the human eye. In fact, I've got a game camera
that takes still photos whose flash is not visible.

Must be some logical reason why they use the visible freq on most
surveillance cams... but what? Cost? Efficiency?
--
Pete Cresswell
 




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