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Windows's System Image Resto How Flexible?



 
 
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  #16  
Old February 1st 14, 01:11 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Ed Cryer
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,621
Default Windows's System Image Resto How Flexible?

Gene E. Bloch wrote:
On 1/31/2014, Ed Cryer posted:
I hate leaving this in the air. I could easily solve it for myself; thus.
1. Keep my established backup system running.
2 Take a sys image with only the C partition on it.
3. Restore and see what's there.


I would if I had the time; and that I don't.


Or maybe "I would if it would be fun, but it won't" :-)

I tend to like experimentation, and being retired, I often can find the
time - but some experiments just aren't that much fun.


Can you see any ambiguity in this Windows dialogue box terminology?
http://cdn.arstechnica.net/7000_7100...ry_methods.png

Ed
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  #17  
Old February 1st 14, 01:17 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Ed Cryer
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,621
Default Windows's System Image Resto How Flexible?

Paul wrote:
Ed Cryer wrote:
Gene E. Bloch wrote:
On 1/31/2014, Ed Cryer posted:
J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , Ed Cryer
writes:
(PeteCresswell) wrote:
I'm taking an image of somebody's laptop as I write this - using 7's
built-in imaging utility.

The Question:

If/when the worst happens, how flexible is the restore process
going to
be? The drive is partitioned: about 50 gigs for the system and the
rest for D: Data.

At restore time, does the target partition have to be precisely the
same
size as the imaged system's partition? Obviously it cannot be
smaller,
but can it be a few gigs larger?


It'll restore onto any HD not smaller than the original.

When you do a restore the entire target drive is overwritten.
If the drive contains, say, partitions C, D and E, and only C is on
the image, then only C will be there after the restore.
[]
Eeek, are you sure about that? The process doesn't give any warning
about that.

Actually, come to think of it, I don't think it's so: I created a 50G
C:, 400-odd D:, and 50 Z, and did a system image create (to Z) -
specifying only C and the hidden etc. bits - and actually did a
restore,
booting from a system restore disc, just to be sure I could. After the
restore, D: and Z: were definitely still there.

I got the _impression_ it wasn't too bothered about sizes: it told me
how much space the image would take (thirtysomething G IIRR at that
point).

(Yes, I know "backing up" to another partition on the same HD is
unwise
- the image creation process actually warns you of that fact anyway;
this was [a] just a proof-of-concept, to verify that the restore
process
does actually work, [b] for a person for whom the most likely
situation
is that she "breaks" the system, rather than the HD dying.)

I found the process - from making the system image through to booting
from the restore CD (even the making of that; wish I'd known it was
under 200M, as I'd have made it on a mini-CD for ease of
identification)
and restoring - reasonably straightforward, and it looked as if it
would
have been almost as straightforward using say an external USB HD. I am
somewhat curious as to what Macrium, Todo, etc. offer that the
included
process doesn't. (Apart from maybe incremental/differential, which I
didn't intend he the idea was to backup the system and
programs-including-their-settings, not the data, which we'll do by
other
means.)

(The one thing I found was that the page - I think it was a Microsoft
one - describing the process which I'd printed out said, was that you
could instigate the restore process by booting from the W7
installation
DVD; when I tried to do that, I didn't succeed - I can't remember
now, I
think it said something like this image isn't accessible, usable, or
something like that. But making and then using a Restore Disk was
fine.)

Hhhmm! I always include all the partitions on an image because I
thought that was what occurred. I base it on warnings like these.

"When you restore your computer from a system image, it's a complete
restoration—you can't choose individual items to restore, and all of
your current programs, system settings, and files are replaced with
the contents of the system image."
(http://windows.microsoft.com/en-gb/w...a-system-image)

"In the event that you are unable to start Windows or wish to restore
your hard drives to a previous backup you can use the System Image
Recovery program from the Windows 7 or Windows 8 Recovery Environment.
This process will overwrite the entire contents of your hard drives
with the contents of a previously created system image. It is
important to note that all of your data will be removed and replaced
with the contents of the system image. Therefore, please backup any
new data that has been since you created the system image that you
plan to restore."
(http://www.bleepingcomputer.com/tuto...n-windows-7-8/)



I've often restored from an image. But (a personal quirk) I only ever
use a C partition on my internal HD. More often than not it comes with
a "D for data" one too, but I leave that empty, and include it in the
saved image.
All of which leaves me unable to put a stamp of "tried and proven" on
my theory.

I used to use Paragon backup but while commissioning a new Win8 box
recently I found problems with it. So, for the first time, I installed
Macrium Reflect. I was pleasantly surprised. It's good; smaller than
Paragon, better GUI, and did its stuff well. The only downside I found
was that to make a rescue boot disc it had to download a file about
1/2GB in size.

Ed

I wold say that the Microsoft description is ambiguous (thank, MS!), but
to me it seems to agree with what John experienced.

OTOH, Bleping Computer is not the official document. Maybe it is just
wrong, given John's report, or maybe it tacitly assumes that the image
was set up by the user as a complete image of the drive.


Well, it wouldn't work in the case of a disk replacement; and that's
my major concern when I take sys images.
I use the term "sys image" very loosely. In practice I look upon it as
a backup of the C drive.
For other fails I have the sys restore option running.

I hate leaving this in the air. I could easily solve it for myself; thus.
1. Keep my established backup system running.
2 Take a sys image with only the C partition on it.
3. Restore and see what's there.

I would if I had the time; and that I don't.

Ed


Underneath, System Image is the equivalent of "wbadmin"
command line utility. And I can't see any evidence there
of a resizing capability.

wbadmin

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/l.../cc754015.aspx

wbadmin start sysrecovery

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/l.../cc742118.aspx

The question would be, does the presence or absence of
-recreateDisks, imply resizing ?

Paul


http://www.pagestart.com/win7bckuprstrnhd072610.html

Ed

  #18  
Old February 1st 14, 01:32 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Paul
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 18,275
Default Windows's System Image Resto How Flexible?

Ed Cryer wrote:
Paul wrote:
Ed Cryer wrote:
Gene E. Bloch wrote:
On 1/31/2014, Ed Cryer posted:
J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , Ed Cryer
writes:
(PeteCresswell) wrote:
I'm taking an image of somebody's laptop as I write this - using
7's
built-in imaging utility.

The Question:

If/when the worst happens, how flexible is the restore process
going to
be? The drive is partitioned: about 50 gigs for the system and
the
rest for D: Data.

At restore time, does the target partition have to be precisely the
same
size as the imaged system's partition? Obviously it cannot be
smaller,
but can it be a few gigs larger?


It'll restore onto any HD not smaller than the original.

When you do a restore the entire target drive is overwritten.
If the drive contains, say, partitions C, D and E, and only C is on
the image, then only C will be there after the restore.
[]
Eeek, are you sure about that? The process doesn't give any warning
about that.

Actually, come to think of it, I don't think it's so: I created a 50G
C:, 400-odd D:, and 50 Z, and did a system image create (to Z) -
specifying only C and the hidden etc. bits - and actually did a
restore,
booting from a system restore disc, just to be sure I could. After
the
restore, D: and Z: were definitely still there.

I got the _impression_ it wasn't too bothered about sizes: it told me
how much space the image would take (thirtysomething G IIRR at that
point).

(Yes, I know "backing up" to another partition on the same HD is
unwise
- the image creation process actually warns you of that fact anyway;
this was [a] just a proof-of-concept, to verify that the restore
process
does actually work, [b] for a person for whom the most likely
situation
is that she "breaks" the system, rather than the HD dying.)

I found the process - from making the system image through to booting
from the restore CD (even the making of that; wish I'd known it was
under 200M, as I'd have made it on a mini-CD for ease of
identification)
and restoring - reasonably straightforward, and it looked as if it
would
have been almost as straightforward using say an external USB HD.
I am
somewhat curious as to what Macrium, Todo, etc. offer that the
included
process doesn't. (Apart from maybe incremental/differential, which I
didn't intend he the idea was to backup the system and
programs-including-their-settings, not the data, which we'll do by
other
means.)

(The one thing I found was that the page - I think it was a Microsoft
one - describing the process which I'd printed out said, was that you
could instigate the restore process by booting from the W7
installation
DVD; when I tried to do that, I didn't succeed - I can't remember
now, I
think it said something like this image isn't accessible, usable, or
something like that. But making and then using a Restore Disk was
fine.)

Hhhmm! I always include all the partitions on an image because I
thought that was what occurred. I base it on warnings like these.

"When you restore your computer from a system image, it's a complete
restoration—you can't choose individual items to restore, and all of
your current programs, system settings, and files are replaced with
the contents of the system image."
(http://windows.microsoft.com/en-gb/w...a-system-image)

"In the event that you are unable to start Windows or wish to restore
your hard drives to a previous backup you can use the System Image
Recovery program from the Windows 7 or Windows 8 Recovery Environment.
This process will overwrite the entire contents of your hard drives
with the contents of a previously created system image. It is
important to note that all of your data will be removed and replaced
with the contents of the system image. Therefore, please backup any
new data that has been since you created the system image that you
plan to restore."
(http://www.bleepingcomputer.com/tuto...n-windows-7-8/)




I've often restored from an image. But (a personal quirk) I only ever
use a C partition on my internal HD. More often than not it comes with
a "D for data" one too, but I leave that empty, and include it in the
saved image.
All of which leaves me unable to put a stamp of "tried and proven" on
my theory.

I used to use Paragon backup but while commissioning a new Win8 box
recently I found problems with it. So, for the first time, I installed
Macrium Reflect. I was pleasantly surprised. It's good; smaller than
Paragon, better GUI, and did its stuff well. The only downside I found
was that to make a rescue boot disc it had to download a file about
1/2GB in size.

Ed

I wold say that the Microsoft description is ambiguous (thank, MS!),
but
to me it seems to agree with what John experienced.

OTOH, Bleping Computer is not the official document. Maybe it is just
wrong, given John's report, or maybe it tacitly assumes that the image
was set up by the user as a complete image of the drive.


Well, it wouldn't work in the case of a disk replacement; and that's
my major concern when I take sys images.
I use the term "sys image" very loosely. In practice I look upon it as
a backup of the C drive.
For other fails I have the sys restore option running.

I hate leaving this in the air. I could easily solve it for myself;
thus.
1. Keep my established backup system running.
2 Take a sys image with only the C partition on it.
3. Restore and see what's there.

I would if I had the time; and that I don't.

Ed


Underneath, System Image is the equivalent of "wbadmin"
command line utility. And I can't see any evidence there
of a resizing capability.

wbadmin

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/l.../cc754015.aspx

wbadmin start sysrecovery

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/l.../cc742118.aspx

The question would be, does the presence or absence of
-recreateDisks, imply resizing ?

Paul


http://www.pagestart.com/win7bckuprstrnhd072610.html

Ed


I was talking about a resize option being available
in the restoring from System Image capabilities. I don't
see anything in the command line version, to suggest they
had a plan to do that.

Whereas, a tool like Macrium Reflect Free, has an option to
control the size of a new partition.

Sure, any kind of partition manager, could be used to
resize after the fact. But restoring to s smaller
hard drive could be a problem, as this process stands.

What the Microsoft software amounts to, more or less,
is just something that copies a .vhd image of a partition,
back to a partition. That's what it looks like to me. The
file by file capability would be different, but I've never
used that, and have no idea what options it presents. Or
whether you could use that to restore an entire disk.

Paul
  #19  
Old February 1st 14, 02:54 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Ed Cryer
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,621
Default Windows's System Image Resto How Flexible?

Paul wrote:
Ed Cryer wrote:
Paul wrote:
Ed Cryer wrote:
Gene E. Bloch wrote:
On 1/31/2014, Ed Cryer posted:
J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , Ed Cryer
writes:
(PeteCresswell) wrote:
I'm taking an image of somebody's laptop as I write this -
using 7's
built-in imaging utility.

The Question:

If/when the worst happens, how flexible is the restore process
going to
be? The drive is partitioned: about 50 gigs for the system
and the
rest for D: Data.

At restore time, does the target partition have to be precisely
the
same
size as the imaged system's partition? Obviously it cannot be
smaller,
but can it be a few gigs larger?


It'll restore onto any HD not smaller than the original.

When you do a restore the entire target drive is overwritten.
If the drive contains, say, partitions C, D and E, and only C is on
the image, then only C will be there after the restore.
[]
Eeek, are you sure about that? The process doesn't give any warning
about that.

Actually, come to think of it, I don't think it's so: I created a
50G
C:, 400-odd D:, and 50 Z, and did a system image create (to Z) -
specifying only C and the hidden etc. bits - and actually did a
restore,
booting from a system restore disc, just to be sure I could.
After the
restore, D: and Z: were definitely still there.

I got the _impression_ it wasn't too bothered about sizes: it
told me
how much space the image would take (thirtysomething G IIRR at that
point).

(Yes, I know "backing up" to another partition on the same HD is
unwise
- the image creation process actually warns you of that fact anyway;
this was [a] just a proof-of-concept, to verify that the restore
process
does actually work, [b] for a person for whom the most likely
situation
is that she "breaks" the system, rather than the HD dying.)

I found the process - from making the system image through to
booting
from the restore CD (even the making of that; wish I'd known it was
under 200M, as I'd have made it on a mini-CD for ease of
identification)
and restoring - reasonably straightforward, and it looked as if it
would
have been almost as straightforward using say an external USB HD.
I am
somewhat curious as to what Macrium, Todo, etc. offer that the
included
process doesn't. (Apart from maybe incremental/differential, which I
didn't intend he the idea was to backup the system and
programs-including-their-settings, not the data, which we'll do by
other
means.)

(The one thing I found was that the page - I think it was a
Microsoft
one - describing the process which I'd printed out said, was that
you
could instigate the restore process by booting from the W7
installation
DVD; when I tried to do that, I didn't succeed - I can't remember
now, I
think it said something like this image isn't accessible, usable, or
something like that. But making and then using a Restore Disk was
fine.)

Hhhmm! I always include all the partitions on an image because I
thought that was what occurred. I base it on warnings like these.

"When you restore your computer from a system image, it's a complete
restoration—you can't choose individual items to restore, and all of
your current programs, system settings, and files are replaced with
the contents of the system image."
(http://windows.microsoft.com/en-gb/w...a-system-image)

"In the event that you are unable to start Windows or wish to restore
your hard drives to a previous backup you can use the System Image
Recovery program from the Windows 7 or Windows 8 Recovery
Environment.
This process will overwrite the entire contents of your hard drives
with the contents of a previously created system image. It is
important to note that all of your data will be removed and replaced
with the contents of the system image. Therefore, please backup any
new data that has been since you created the system image that you
plan to restore."
(http://www.bleepingcomputer.com/tuto...n-windows-7-8/)




I've often restored from an image. But (a personal quirk) I only ever
use a C partition on my internal HD. More often than not it comes
with
a "D for data" one too, but I leave that empty, and include it in the
saved image.
All of which leaves me unable to put a stamp of "tried and proven" on
my theory.

I used to use Paragon backup but while commissioning a new Win8 box
recently I found problems with it. So, for the first time, I
installed
Macrium Reflect. I was pleasantly surprised. It's good; smaller than
Paragon, better GUI, and did its stuff well. The only downside I
found
was that to make a rescue boot disc it had to download a file about
1/2GB in size.

Ed

I wold say that the Microsoft description is ambiguous (thank,
MS!), but
to me it seems to agree with what John experienced.

OTOH, Bleping Computer is not the official document. Maybe it is just
wrong, given John's report, or maybe it tacitly assumes that the image
was set up by the user as a complete image of the drive.


Well, it wouldn't work in the case of a disk replacement; and that's
my major concern when I take sys images.
I use the term "sys image" very loosely. In practice I look upon it as
a backup of the C drive.
For other fails I have the sys restore option running.

I hate leaving this in the air. I could easily solve it for myself;
thus.
1. Keep my established backup system running.
2 Take a sys image with only the C partition on it.
3. Restore and see what's there.

I would if I had the time; and that I don't.

Ed

Underneath, System Image is the equivalent of "wbadmin"
command line utility. And I can't see any evidence there
of a resizing capability.

wbadmin

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/l.../cc754015.aspx

wbadmin start sysrecovery

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/l.../cc742118.aspx

The question would be, does the presence or absence of
-recreateDisks, imply resizing ?

Paul


http://www.pagestart.com/win7bckuprstrnhd072610.html

Ed


I was talking about a resize option being available
in the restoring from System Image capabilities. I don't
see anything in the command line version, to suggest they
had a plan to do that.

Whereas, a tool like Macrium Reflect Free, has an option to
control the size of a new partition.

Sure, any kind of partition manager, could be used to
resize after the fact. But restoring to s smaller
hard drive could be a problem, as this process stands.

What the Microsoft software amounts to, more or less,
is just something that copies a .vhd image of a partition,
back to a partition. That's what it looks like to me. The
file by file capability would be different, but I've never
used that, and have no idea what options it presents. Or
whether you could use that to restore an entire disk.

Paul


Hi.

The conclusion of that website reads;
"Using Windows 7’s built in Backup and Restore was relatively easy both
when creating and storing the image backup to an external USB drive.
Restoration of the image to the new drive was even easier with no
unpleasant surprises. The only minor drawback is the inability to
automatically expand the Windows partition to take advantage of a larger
hard drive, forcing the use of Disk Management’s partition ‘Extend
Volume’ option which was only a minor inconvenience."

I'll say it before you do, here, because I've often seen your comments
on system partition resizing.
Extend volume has problems with resizing the C partition.

Ed

  #20  
Old February 1st 14, 03:30 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Ed Cryer
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,621
Default Windows's System Image Resto How Flexible?

Gene E. Bloch wrote:
On 1/31/2014, Ed Cryer posted:
I hate leaving this in the air. I could easily solve it for myself; thus.
1. Keep my established backup system running.
2 Take a sys image with only the C partition on it.
3. Restore and see what's there.


I would if I had the time; and that I don't.


Or maybe "I would if it would be fun, but it won't" :-)

I tend to like experimentation, and being retired, I often can find the
time - but some experiments just aren't that much fun.


I'm retired too. But some how or other I've taken on so much to do that
I can't figure how I ever had time to go to work.

This seems like a job for BillW50 and his umpteen laptops. He must have
one spare, with just the system initialisation stuff on the HD, and
hence quick to dump & restore. He could quickly create a Z partition,
take a sys image excluding Z, restore, tells us what's there.

Ed


  #21  
Old February 1st 14, 03:59 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Ken Blake[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,318
Default Windows's System Image Resto How Flexible?

On Sat, 01 Feb 2014 14:30:58 +0000, Ed Cryer
wrote:


I'm retired too. But some how or other I've taken on so much to do that
I can't figure how I ever had time to go to work.



LOL! Same here, and I've even cut back on a lot of volunteer things I
used to do.

  #22  
Old February 1st 14, 07:14 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Ed Cryer
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,621
Default Windows's System Image Resto How Flexible?

Ken Blake wrote:
On Sat, 01 Feb 2014 14:30:58 +0000, Ed Cryer
wrote:


I'm retired too. But some how or other I've taken on so much to do that
I can't figure how I ever had time to go to work.



LOL! Same here, and I've even cut back on a lot of volunteer things I
used to do.


I was hoping that when I retired I might become a spokesman for
humanity; a bit like Bono, who tells us all about the rising Tiger
economy, how Africa and India are on the rise, and other such stuff of
international importance.
Instead I appear to have become humanity's workhorse. Everybody who
knows me and the skills I have comes along and asks me to do this, that
and the other. So I mend computers, do gardens, teach languages and
history on the Net, and a million other such things.
(-:

Ed



  #23  
Old February 1st 14, 08:21 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Ed Cryer
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,621
Default Windows's System Image Resto How Flexible?

Ed Cryer wrote:
Ken Blake wrote:
On Sat, 01 Feb 2014 14:30:58 +0000, Ed Cryer
wrote:


I'm retired too. But some how or other I've taken on so much to do that
I can't figure how I ever had time to go to work.



LOL! Same here, and I've even cut back on a lot of volunteer things I
used to do.


I was hoping that when I retired I might become a spokesman for
humanity; a bit like Bono, who tells us all about the rising Tiger
economy, how Africa and India are on the rise, and other such stuff of
international importance.
Instead I appear to have become humanity's workhorse. Everybody who
knows me and the skills I have comes along and asks me to do this, that
and the other. So I mend computers, do gardens, teach languages and
history on the Net, and a million other such things.
(-:

Ed




Or maybe I could astound the scientific world by discovering how the
brain generates mind. And get a Nobel Prize. Me there, alongside Peter
Higgs.
But no.

Ed

  #24  
Old February 1st 14, 08:35 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Ed Cryer
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,621
Default Windows's System Image Resto How Flexible?

Ed Cryer wrote:
Ed Cryer wrote:
Ken Blake wrote:
On Sat, 01 Feb 2014 14:30:58 +0000, Ed Cryer
wrote:


I'm retired too. But some how or other I've taken on so much to do that
I can't figure how I ever had time to go to work.


LOL! Same here, and I've even cut back on a lot of volunteer things I
used to do.


I was hoping that when I retired I might become a spokesman for
humanity; a bit like Bono, who tells us all about the rising Tiger
economy, how Africa and India are on the rise, and other such stuff of
international importance.
Instead I appear to have become humanity's workhorse. Everybody who
knows me and the skills I have comes along and asks me to do this, that
and the other. So I mend computers, do gardens, teach languages and
history on the Net, and a million other such things.
(-:

Ed




Or maybe I could astound the scientific world by discovering how the
brain generates mind. And get a Nobel Prize. Me there, alongside Peter
Higgs.
But no.

Ed


Or maybe write a novel from a God's-eye point of view, like Tolstoy and
Dostoevsky.
Or create a political ideology like Marx; give the world something to
aim for, restore Eden.
Or set an example like Che Guevara.

Ed

  #25  
Old February 1st 14, 08:36 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Ed Cryer
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,621
Default Windows's System Image Resto How Flexible?

Ed Cryer wrote:
Ed Cryer wrote:
Ed Cryer wrote:
Ken Blake wrote:
On Sat, 01 Feb 2014 14:30:58 +0000, Ed Cryer
wrote:


I'm retired too. But some how or other I've taken on so much to do
that
I can't figure how I ever had time to go to work.


LOL! Same here, and I've even cut back on a lot of volunteer things I
used to do.


I was hoping that when I retired I might become a spokesman for
humanity; a bit like Bono, who tells us all about the rising Tiger
economy, how Africa and India are on the rise, and other such stuff of
international importance.
Instead I appear to have become humanity's workhorse. Everybody who
knows me and the skills I have comes along and asks me to do this, that
and the other. So I mend computers, do gardens, teach languages and
history on the Net, and a million other such things.
(-:

Ed




Or maybe I could astound the scientific world by discovering how the
brain generates mind. And get a Nobel Prize. Me there, alongside Peter
Higgs.
But no.

Ed


Or maybe write a novel from a God's-eye point of view, like Tolstoy and
Dostoevsky.
Or create a political ideology like Marx; give the world something to
aim for, restore Eden.
Or set an example like Che Guevara.

Ed


Or win Wimbledon for a Brit, after 70 years.
Or bring the planets into alignment with music, like Bill and Ted.
Or create something new, like a cuckoo clock.

Ed


  #26  
Old February 2nd 14, 01:48 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
Gene E. Bloch[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,720
Default Windows's System Image Resto How Flexible?

On 2/01/2014, Ed Cryer posted:
Gene E. Bloch wrote:
On 1/31/2014, Ed Cryer posted:
I hate leaving this in the air. I could easily solve it for
myself; thus.
1. Keep my established backup system running.
2 Take a sys image with only the C partition on it.
3. Restore and see what's there.


I would if I had the time; and that I don't.


Or maybe "I would if it would be fun, but it won't" :-)

I tend to like experimentation, and being retired, I often can find
the
time - but some experiments just aren't that much fun.


Can you see any ambiguity in this Windows dialogue box terminology?
http://cdn.arstechnica.net/7000_7100...ry_methods.png


Ed


Yes.

--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)
  #27  
Old February 2nd 14, 01:51 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
Gene E. Bloch[_5_]
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Posts: 1,720
Default Windows's System Image Resto How Flexible?

On 2/01/2014, Ed Cryer posted:
Ed Cryer wrote:
Ed Cryer wrote:
Ed Cryer wrote:
Ken Blake wrote:
On Sat, 01 Feb 2014 14:30:58 +0000, Ed Cryer

wrote:


I'm retired too. But some how or other I've taken on so much to
do
that
I can't figure how I ever had time to go to work.


LOL! Same here, and I've even cut back on a lot of volunteer
things I
used to do.


I was hoping that when I retired I might become a spokesman for
humanity; a bit like Bono, who tells us all about the rising
Tiger
economy, how Africa and India are on the rise, and other such
stuff of
international importance.
Instead I appear to have become humanity's workhorse. Everybody
who
knows me and the skills I have comes along and asks me to do
this, that
and the other. So I mend computers, do gardens, teach languages
and
history on the Net, and a million other such things.
(-:

Ed




Or maybe I could astound the scientific world by discovering how
the
brain generates mind. And get a Nobel Prize. Me there, alongside
Peter
Higgs.
But no.

Ed


Or maybe write a novel from a God's-eye point of view, like Tolstoy
and
Dostoevsky.
Or create a political ideology like Marx; give the world something
to
aim for, restore Eden.
Or set an example like Che Guevara.

Ed


Or win Wimbledon for a Brit, after 70 years.
Or bring the planets into alignment with music, like Bill and Ted.
Or create something new, like a cuckoo clock.


Ed


Now I understand your problem!

You spend so much time and energy on ideas that there's nothing left
for implementation.

I've got lots of time for implementation. All I need is an idea... :-)

--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)
  #28  
Old February 2nd 14, 02:18 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Ed Cryer
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,621
Default Windows's System Image Resto How Flexible?

Gene E. Bloch wrote:
On 2/01/2014, Ed Cryer posted:
Ed Cryer wrote:
Ed Cryer wrote:
Ed Cryer wrote:
Ken Blake wrote:
On Sat, 01 Feb 2014 14:30:58 +0000, Ed Cryer
wrote:


I'm retired too. But some how or other I've taken on so much to do
that
I can't figure how I ever had time to go to work.


LOL! Same here, and I've even cut back on a lot of volunteer things I
used to do.


I was hoping that when I retired I might become a spokesman for
humanity; a bit like Bono, who tells us all about the rising Tiger
economy, how Africa and India are on the rise, and other such stuff of
international importance.
Instead I appear to have become humanity's workhorse. Everybody who
knows me and the skills I have comes along and asks me to do this,
that
and the other. So I mend computers, do gardens, teach languages and
history on the Net, and a million other such things.
(-:

Ed




Or maybe I could astound the scientific world by discovering how the
brain generates mind. And get a Nobel Prize. Me there, alongside Peter
Higgs.
But no.

Ed


Or maybe write a novel from a God's-eye point of view, like Tolstoy and
Dostoevsky.
Or create a political ideology like Marx; give the world something to
aim for, restore Eden.
Or set an example like Che Guevara.

Ed


Or win Wimbledon for a Brit, after 70 years.
Or bring the planets into alignment with music, like Bill and Ted.
Or create something new, like a cuckoo clock.


Ed


Now I understand your problem!

You spend so much time and energy on ideas that there's nothing left for
implementation.

I've got lots of time for implementation. All I need is an idea... :-)


It's modern life.

Imagine Leonardo Da Vinci in retirement; and a lady reporter keeps
knocking on his door. "Is it true, Senr. Da V, that you dissected human
corpses? Is it true that your Gioconda smile was induced with wine? Is
it true that you designed murderous war-weapons?"

Ed


  #29  
Old February 2nd 14, 04:59 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
J. P. Gilliver (John)
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Posts: 5,291
Default Windows's System Image Resto How Flexible?

In message , Ed Cryer
writes:
J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

[]
Actually, come to think of it, I don't think it's so: I created a 50G
C:, 400-odd D:, and 50 Z, and did a system image create (to Z) -
specifying only C and the hidden etc. bits - and actually did a restore,
booting from a system restore disc, just to be sure I could. After the
restore, D: and Z: were definitely still there.

I got the _impression_ it wasn't too bothered about sizes: it told me
how much space the image would take (thirtysomething G IIRR at that point).

(Yes, I know "backing up" to another partition on the same HD is unwise

[]
Hhhmm! I always include all the partitions on an image because I
thought that was what occurred. I base it on warnings like these.

"When you restore your computer from a system image, it's a complete
restoration—you can't choose individual items to restore, and all of
your current programs, system settings, and files are replaced with the
contents of the system image."
(http://windows.microsoft.com/en-gb/w...a-system-image)


I think that was written for people who store all their data files on
the same partition as their system, and basically was warning you that
you can't restore an individual file from such an image. I think,
reading further (including what's been posted here in this thread), it's
basically an image of the C: partition (and possibly the hidden ones
too), though does seem to eliminate unused space.

"In the event that you are unable to start Windows or wish to restore
your hard drives to a previous backup you can use the System Image
Recovery program from the Windows 7 or Windows 8 Recovery Environment.
This process will overwrite the entire contents of your hard drives
with the contents of a previously created system image. It is important
to note that all of your data will be removed and replaced with the
contents of the system image. Therefore, please backup any new data
that has been since you created the system image that you plan to restore."
(http://www.bleepingcomputer.com/tuto...covery-in-wind
ows-7-8/)


If true, that would be unambiguous. But a lot of people (mis)use "drive"
and "partition" interchangeably; what my experiment seems to have shown
is that (possibly only providing the partition _arrangements_ [at least
size, possibly more] haven't been changed since the image was made),
then only the partition(s) that were imaged are restored, without
corrupting others. (And yes, I did check that it had actually restored!
I made a trivial change - changed the background slideshow settings
between creating the image and doing the restore - and it did indeed
restore to how they had been.)

I've often restored from an image. But (a personal quirk) I only ever
use a C partition on my internal HD. More often than not it comes with
a "D for data" one too, but I leave that empty, and include it in the
saved image.
All of which leaves me unable to put a stamp of "tried and proven" on
my theory.

[]
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

You cannot simply assume someone is honest just because they are not an MP.
  #30  
Old February 2nd 14, 05:12 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
J. P. Gilliver (John)
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,291
Default Windows's System Image Resto How Flexible?

In message , Ed Cryer
writes:
[]
Can you see any ambiguity in this Windows dialogue box terminology?
http://cdn.arstechnica.net/7000_7100...ry_methods.png

Ed


Well, apart from your joke one that there are two versions!, the text

If you have backed up your computer by creating a system image, you can
replace everything on this computer - including Windows, your programs,
and your files - with the information saved on the system image. {If you
have more than one partition on your computer, the system image is only
made up of the partition that Windows is installed on.}

(Text in {these} is what was only in one of your two.)

is ambiguous to me: I can see that it is not clear whether the final
sentence is just warning that you'll only _save_ the Windows partition,
or warning that you'll lose any other partitions when you restore. In
practice, I think it'll only save and restore the Windows partition, but
not disturb any others.

In fact,
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-gb/w...#1TC=windows-7
says mo "If you're using Windows Backup to back up your files, you
can have a system image created each time your files are backed up. The
files can be saved on a USB flash drive, CDs, DVDs, or a hard drive. The
system image must be saved on a hard drive. By default, the system image
only includes the drives required for Windows to run." (I think they
ought to have stressed - perhaps by bolding the text or similar - the
difference between Backup and image-creation, but anyway note that "By
default".

It goes on to say "If you want to include additional drives in the
system image, you can manually create a system image. If you manually
create a system image, it can be saved on a USB flash drive, CDs, DVDs,
or a hard drive." I would vouch for the first part of that: when I
(manually) created an image, I certainly had the _option_ to add (for
example) the D: drive to the image.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

You cannot simply assume someone is honest just because they are not an MP.
 




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