Running PC at low temps (down 20 F) ?

About a year ago, I started a thread on hard drives in sub-freezing
temps and it became clear that's a no-no if/when the drive has to start
cold.

But what about running a PC 24-7 in cold temps?

Where I'm going is backup for a 10T NAS box. I've got an old Windows
Home Server machine that I mirror the NAS box to, but I would feel
better if it were somewhere besides the same building the NAS box is in.

10 terabytes just doesn't work cloud-wise.

Got a garden shed with Cat5 and AC, and that seems like the logical
place... except it is unheated and we are in Southeastern
Pennsylvania.... so winter temps can get down into the single digits.

So I guess one question is: can the running PC generate enough heat to
keep it and the drives healthy at low temps....

Or it the whole idea totally out of the question?
--
Pete Cresswell

On Mon, 08 Dec 2014 09:36:22 -0500, "(PeteCresswell)"
wrote:

About a year ago, I started a thread on hard drives in sub-freezing
temps and it became clear that's a no-no if/when the drive has to start
cold.

But what about running a PC 24-7 in cold temps?

Where I'm going is backup for a 10T NAS box. I've got an old Windows
Home Server machine that I mirror the NAS box to, but I would feel
better if it were somewhere besides the same building the NAS box is in.

10 terabytes just doesn't work cloud-wise.

Got a garden shed with Cat5 and AC, and that seems like the logical
place... except it is unheated and we are in Southeastern
Pennsylvania.... so winter temps can get down into the single digits.

So I guess one question is: can the running PC generate enough heat to
keep it and the drives healthy at low temps....

Or it the whole idea totally out of the question?


I don't know the answer, but let me point out that you probably can't
run it 24/7. Every now and then you'll have a power failure and have
to restart it.

On 12/08/2014 08:46 AM, Ken Blake wrote:
On Mon, 08 Dec 2014 09:36:22 -0500, "(PeteCresswell)"
wrote:

About a year ago, I started a thread on hard drives in sub-freezing
temps and it became clear that's a no-no if/when the drive has to start
cold.

But what about running a PC 24-7 in cold temps?

Where I'm going is backup for a 10T NAS box. I've got an old Windows
Home Server machine that I mirror the NAS box to, but I would feel
better if it were somewhere besides the same building the NAS box is in.

10 terabytes just doesn't work cloud-wise.

Got a garden shed with Cat5 and AC, and that seems like the logical
place... except it is unheated and we are in Southeastern
Pennsylvania.... so winter temps can get down into the single digits.

So I guess one question is: can the running PC generate enough heat to
keep it and the drives healthy at low temps....

Or it the whole idea totally out of the question?


I don't know the answer, but let me point out that you probably can't
run it 24/7. Every now and then you'll have a power failure and have
to restart it.




20F will not hurt a PC running 24/7

If the machine is on a UPS, a short power failure will keep the machine
running. The only problem is that a cold battery will have less capacity
than a warm one

"philo " wrote in message
...
On 12/08/2014 08:46 AM, Ken Blake wrote:
On Mon, 08 Dec 2014 09:36:22 -0500, "(PeteCresswell)"
wrote:

About a year ago, I started a thread on hard drives in sub-freezing
temps and it became clear that's a no-no if/when the drive has to start
cold.

But what about running a PC 24-7 in cold temps?

Where I'm going is backup for a 10T NAS box. I've got an old Windows
Home Server machine that I mirror the NAS box to, but I would feel
better if it were somewhere besides the same building the NAS box is in.

10 terabytes just doesn't work cloud-wise.

Got a garden shed with Cat5 and AC, and that seems like the logical
place... except it is unheated and we are in Southeastern
Pennsylvania.... so winter temps can get down into the single digits.

So I guess one question is: can the running PC generate enough heat to
keep it and the drives healthy at low temps....

Or it the whole idea totally out of the question?


I don't know the answer, but let me point out that you probably can't
run it 24/7. Every now and then you'll have a power failure and have
to restart it.


20F will not hurt a PC running 24/7

If the machine is on a UPS, a short power failure will keep the machine
running. The only problem is that a cold battery will have less capacity
than a warm one

You might want to configure the BIOS so the PC automatically starts up as
soon as power is restored after a power cut. I leave my PC on 24/7 and use
it as a video recorder - I can access it remotely to set up new recordings
while I'm away on holiday. To begin with I didn't change the BIOS and missed
recording things because there had been a power cut and the PC had then
remained off even after the power came back.

I wonder how much the temperature inside the shed will be raised by the heat
generated by the PC - typically a few tens of watts. If you are at all
worried by the effects of low temperatures, you could always build a
cardboard shield a few inches bigger to put round the PC to keep a jacket of
warmed air around the PC - but make sure this doesn't cause the PC to run
hot in summer. Actually, how hot does the shed get in summer... ? Might the
problem be more of overheating in summer than being too cold in winter?

In article , lid
says...

About a year ago, I started a thread on hard drives in sub-freezing
temps and it became clear that's a no-no if/when the drive has to start
cold.

But what about running a PC 24-7 in cold temps?

Where I'm going is backup for a 10T NAS box. I've got an old Windows
Home Server machine that I mirror the NAS box to, but I would feel
better if it were somewhere besides the same building the NAS box is in.

10 terabytes just doesn't work cloud-wise.

Got a garden shed with Cat5 and AC, and that seems like the logical
place... except it is unheated and we are in Southeastern
Pennsylvania.... so winter temps can get down into the single digits.

So I guess one question is: can the running PC generate enough heat to
keep it and the drives healthy at low temps....

Or it the whole idea totally out of the question?


I leave one running in my sunporch which during winter at night
regularily dips into minus double digits celsius. If power goes out I do
wait till sun comes out and heats her up before restarting though.

(PeteCresswell) wrote:
About a year ago, I started a thread on hard drives in sub-freezing
temps and it became clear that's a no-no if/when the drive has to start
cold.

But what about running a PC 24-7 in cold temps?

Where I'm going is backup for a 10T NAS box. I've got an old Windows
Home Server machine that I mirror the NAS box to, but I would feel
better if it were somewhere besides the same building the NAS box is in.

10 terabytes just doesn't work cloud-wise.

Got a garden shed with Cat5 and AC, and that seems like the logical
place... except it is unheated and we are in Southeastern
Pennsylvania.... so winter temps can get down into the single digits.

So I guess one question is: can the running PC generate enough heat to
keep it and the drives healthy at low temps....

Or it the whole idea totally out of the question?

I wouldn't do that.

http://i43.tinypic.com/156eash.gif

That's a hard drive temperature/humidity curve.
It basically says you shouldn't allow dew or
frost to form, either outside the HDA, or inside
it. Or you could have a head crash.

If the power goes off in your remote storage area,
you'd need to pre-heat the room for a while, before
pushing the power button on the PC. At the very least.
You want the hard drive to "dry out".

Even the new Hitachi helium filled (Sealed) drive,
only has a 5C lower operating temperature spec. Which
surprised me. I expected it could be run lower than
that. It can be stored at a lower temperature, but
not operated at a lower temperature. You can still
Fedex a drive like that in winter without damaging it.
It just needs to heat up and dry off (condensation),
before you power it up.

Paul

(PeteCresswell) wrote:
About a year ago, I started a thread on hard drives in sub-freezing
temps and it became clear that's a no-no if/when the drive has to start
cold.

But what about running a PC 24-7 in cold temps?

Where I'm going is backup for a 10T NAS box. I've got an old Windows
Home Server machine that I mirror the NAS box to, but I would feel
better if it were somewhere besides the same building the NAS box is in.

10 terabytes just doesn't work cloud-wise.

Got a garden shed with Cat5 and AC, and that seems like the logical
place... except it is unheated and we are in Southeastern
Pennsylvania.... so winter temps can get down into the single digits.

So I guess one question is: can the running PC generate enough heat to
keep it and the drives healthy at low temps....

Or it the whole idea totally out of the question?

It's not so much the cold as the humidity.
We install and monitor scada equipment in outdoor NEMA4 or 12 boxes
from TX to PA to ND to Point Barrow (it was cold and dark there).
The equipment uses solid state drives. Mechanical drives would not
last more than a few weeks, or days. Most of the equipment up north use
heating pads, like pipe wrap heaters. The heaters are not for
keeping the equipment warm, they are for dispelling humidity.
Besides humidity, our next biggest problem is bugs. Bugs like warm
electronics. Unfortunately bugs conduct electricity and short stuff
out. Bugs catch fire, too.

On Mon, 08 Dec 2014 09:36:22 -0500, "(PeteCresswell)"
wrote:

About a year ago, I started a thread on hard drives in sub-freezing
temps and it became clear that's a no-no if/when the drive has to start
cold.

But what about running a PC 24-7 in cold temps?

Where I'm going is backup for a 10T NAS box. I've got an old Windows
Home Server machine that I mirror the NAS box to, but I would feel
better if it were somewhere besides the same building the NAS box is in.

10 terabytes just doesn't work cloud-wise.

Got a garden shed with Cat5 and AC, and that seems like the logical
place... except it is unheated and we are in Southeastern
Pennsylvania.... so winter temps can get down into the single digits.

So I guess one question is: can the running PC generate enough heat to
keep it and the drives healthy at low temps....

Or it the whole idea totally out of the question?


Another thing you could investigate is the use of electric heat
tracing cable wrapped around the PC box. They are generally used for
freeze protection and many of them are self-regulating to keep a
constant temperature (in SE PA your local hardware outlet might have
them for water pipes). The downside is if you lose electricity, the
heat tracing is gone. But insulating the PC might solve that problem
for short outages. In the chemical industry we do this all the time
for cold weather operations.

On Mon, 08 Dec 2014 09:36:22 -0500, "(PeteCresswell)"
wrote:

Other than the drives, it might last forever. Back when I first
started studying electronics, there was a rule that said that for
every 10 degree celsius drop in operating temperature, solid state
devices would last 50% longer.

I too would be worried more about the summer time temps. Maybe take
off the case cover and aim a good fan at the machine.

-dan z-



--
Protect your civil rights!
Let the politicians know how you feel.
Join or donate to the NRA today!
http://membership.nrahq.org/default....ignid=XR014887

Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars.

slate_leeper wrote:
On Mon, 08 Dec 2014 09:36:22 -0500, "(PeteCresswell)"
wrote:

Other than the drives, it might last forever. Back when I first
started studying electronics, there was a rule that said that for
every 10 degree celsius drop in operating temperature, solid state
devices would last 50% longer.

I too would be worried more about the summer time temps. Maybe take
off the case cover and aim a good fan at the machine.

-dan z-

That's the Arrhenius relationship, and I've been surprised to
find over the years, that the exponent for electronics is
not the same as the exponent I was taught in Chemistry class.

In fact, the curve for each kind of electronics component
is different. I found some charts on a company web site,
that makes electrolytic caps.

In Chemistry class, we were taught that 7C double reaction
rate. Whereas one of those electrolytic cap charts, the
factor was 15C for a doubling of reliability (cooler is
better). If you told me you found a 10C number, I would
not be surprised. I don't even know if they sit around
for eons, doing empirical tests to make those curves.
Or they have some other way of figuring it out.

*******

The perfect place for a PC, would be "in a hole in the ground".
From my spelunking days, once you get far enough underground,
the temperature is constant. I doubt the humidity is perfect
though. It tends to be a bit on the damp side. But at least in
terms of temperature excursions, it's nice down there (i.e.
within the computer operating temp range).

Paul

(PeteCresswell) wrote:
About a year ago, I started a thread on hard drives in sub-freezing
temps and it became clear that's a no-no if/when the drive has to start
cold.

But what about running a PC 24-7 in cold temps?

Where I'm going is backup for a 10T NAS box. I've got an old Windows
Home Server machine that I mirror the NAS box to, but I would feel
better if it were somewhere besides the same building the NAS box is in.

10 terabytes just doesn't work cloud-wise.

Got a garden shed with Cat5 and AC, and that seems like the logical
place... except it is unheated and we are in Southeastern
Pennsylvania.... so winter temps can get down into the single digits.

So I guess one question is: can the running PC generate enough heat to
keep it and the drives healthy at low temps....

Or it the whole idea totally out of the question?

I don't mirror mine, but I keep a notebook in a metal box out in my
shop (no big temp swings here in Georgia). Every Sunday I bring it
in, get it on the network and copy all the changed data files from my
home network to it and take it back out to the shop. I used to do
this on DVD's and leave them at my brother's house.

I admit mirroring is probably better. Either way data is protected in
case of fire or burglary.

Another way to beat the cold would be have a bug-proof enclosure with
a small light bulb in it.

--
 GW Ross 

 Let X = 42 

On Tue, 09 Dec 2014 08:21:11 -0500, Paul wrote:

The perfect place for a PC, would be "in a hole in the ground".
From my spelunking days, once you get far enough underground,
the temperature is constant. I doubt the humidity is perfect
though. It tends to be a bit on the damp side. But at least in
terms of temperature excursions, it's nice down there (i.e.
within the computer operating temp range).

You have to know when to quit digging, though. At some point it starts to
get warmer as you get deeper. A friend of mine works as a Federal mine
inspector and says some of them are sweat lodges.

--

Char Jackson

On Tue, 09 Dec 2014 08:51:39 -0500, "G. Ross" wrote:

I don't mirror mine, but I keep a notebook in a metal box out in my
shop (no big temp swings here in Georgia). Every Sunday I bring it
in, get it on the network and copy all the changed data files from my
home network to it and take it back out to the shop. I used to do
this on DVD's and leave them at my brother's house.

I think I would go to that much trouble maybe once, and then I'd be looking
for a better solution. If stringing Cat5 isn't practical, a wireless link
might be a good bet, or perhaps powerline networking. You can always shut
the link down when not in use to get the isolation that you probably want.

Another way to beat the cold would be have a bug-proof enclosure with
a small light bulb in it.

At my last house, I installed an auxiliary electric heater in a room in the
basement, which I controlled with a 110-volt thermostat. I didn't even know
such things as high voltage thermostats existed until I went looking for
one. Anyway, he could build the enclosure and fit both a heat lamp and a fan
to it. Use the thermostat to turn on the heat lamp when the temp dips too
low, and turn on the fan when the temp climbs too high.

--

Char Jackson

Char Jackson wrote:
On Tue, 09 Dec 2014 08:21:11 -0500, Paul wrote:

The perfect place for a PC, would be "in a hole in the ground".
From my spelunking days, once you get far enough underground,
the temperature is constant. I doubt the humidity is perfect
though. It tends to be a bit on the damp side. But at least in
terms of temperature excursions, it's nice down there (i.e.
within the computer operating temp range).

You have to know when to quit digging, though. At some point it starts to
get warmer as you get deeper. A friend of mine works as a Federal mine
inspector and says some of them are sweat lodges.


Yeah, stop when you hit lava :-)

Paul

On Tue, 09 Dec 2014 12:16:01 -0500, Paul wrote:

Char Jackson wrote:
On Tue, 09 Dec 2014 08:21:11 -0500, Paul wrote:

The perfect place for a PC, would be "in a hole in the ground".
From my spelunking days, once you get far enough underground,
the temperature is constant. I doubt the humidity is perfect
though. It tends to be a bit on the damp side. But at least in
terms of temperature excursions, it's nice down there (i.e.
within the computer operating temp range).

You have to know when to quit digging, though. At some point it starts to
get warmer as you get deeper. A friend of mine works as a Federal mine
inspector and says some of them are sweat lodges.


Yeah, stop when you hit lava :-)

I just look for the sign that says "Earth's core ahead". :-)

--

Char Jackson