Migrating to an SSD

On 25/03/2012 4:30 PM, Loren Pechtel wrote:
With a spinning drive you simply write new values into the magnetic
domains, the old values are irrelevant. SSDs don't work that way,
though. You can only write 1s to a block, a zero can't be written.
Instead you have to erase the whole block--and erasing a block makes
spinning drives look downright speedy.

If the block consists of all zeroes it can be written rapidly. If
there are 1s in the way you have to copy everything out of the block,
erase it and then write the good data back.

Good explanation of why the entire block needs to be erased first rather
than just overwritten on the fly.

Yousuf Khan

On 27/03/2012 7:54 AM, Yousuf Khan wrote:
On 25/03/2012 4:30 PM, Loren Pechtel wrote:
With a spinning drive you simply write new values into the magnetic
domains, the old values are irrelevant. SSDs don't work that way,
though. You can only write 1s to a block, a zero can't be written.
Instead you have to erase the whole block--and erasing a block makes
spinning drives look downright speedy.

If the block consists of all zeroes it can be written rapidly. If
there are 1s in the way you have to copy everything out of the block,
erase it and then write the good data back.

Good explanation of why the entire block needs to be erased first rather
than just overwritten on the fly.

Yousuf Khan



Yep. Interesting explanation and somewhat similar to what happens to a
CF memory card.

I use 32Gb CF cards and every now and then will have corrupt files which
pickup other bits and can have two pictures in one, segmented,

I would not like this happening to data.

On 25/03/2012 4:21 PM, Allen Drake wrote:
On Sun, 25 Mar 2012 14:19:06 -0400, "Tom Del Rosso"
wrote:
Cloning can create a new partition instead of using the existing one,
depending on what cloning tool you use.

Exactly and depending on how you have that application set up. All in
all I have been satisfied with the speed of my SSDs as I gradually
replaced the HDDs and had no idea of the alignment issue until I
stumbled on some threads related to that subject. I plan on a clean
install of Windows 7 to new SSDs sometime soon. That will take care
of any misalignment.

Well, initially I was having a bit of a problem with my imaging software
(Macrium Reflect, in my case). When it was restoring the image to the
SSD aligned to a 31KB boundary, rather than a 1024KB boundary that is
suggested. The 31KB boundary is known as the older XP alignment scheme,
geared towards CHS hard drives.

I sent a tech support message off to them, and they were kind enough to
show me some advanced option switches that allowed it to be aligned to a
1024KB partition. They call this alignment scheme the Vista/7 alignment,
geared towards not just SSD's, but also modern Advanced Format hard drives.

The biggest gain I see in speed are the systems that actually have
SATA III motherboards.

Well, I got it up and running. It's only got SATA II controllers, but
I'm seeing a Windows Experience number of 7.6 (out of 7.9) on the disk!
Outstanding, all of my system components are now over 7.0. The disk was
the only thing holding me back at 5.9 previously. Things do pop up much
faster now.

One thing to note, when I initially transferred the system over, I
didn't do any changes to the setup to improve performance other than
align the partition. Once I turned the Windows indexing off on this
drive, it immediately picked up from 6.9 to 7.6.

Yousuf Khan

On Thu, 29 Mar 2012 10:00:40 -0400, Yousuf Khan
wrote:

On 25/03/2012 4:21 PM, Allen Drake wrote:
On Sun, 25 Mar 2012 14:19:06 -0400, "Tom Del Rosso"
wrote:
Cloning can create a new partition instead of using the existing one,
depending on what cloning tool you use.

Exactly and depending on how you have that application set up. All in
all I have been satisfied with the speed of my SSDs as I gradually
replaced the HDDs and had no idea of the alignment issue until I
stumbled on some threads related to that subject. I plan on a clean
install of Windows 7 to new SSDs sometime soon. That will take care
of any misalignment.

Well, initially I was having a bit of a problem with my imaging software
(Macrium Reflect, in my case). When it was restoring the image to the
SSD aligned to a 31KB boundary, rather than a 1024KB boundary that is
suggested. The 31KB boundary is known as the older XP alignment scheme,
geared towards CHS hard drives.

I sent a tech support message off to them, and they were kind enough to
show me some advanced option switches that allowed it to be aligned to a
1024KB partition. They call this alignment scheme the Vista/7 alignment,
geared towards not just SSD's, but also modern Advanced Format hard drives.

The biggest gain I see in speed are the systems that actually have
SATA III motherboards.

Well, I got it up and running. It's only got SATA II controllers, but
I'm seeing a Windows Experience number of 7.6 (out of 7.9) on the disk!
Outstanding, all of my system components are now over 7.0. The disk was
the only thing holding me back at 5.9 previously. Things do pop up much
faster now.

One thing to note, when I initially transferred the system over, I
didn't do any changes to the setup to improve performance other than
align the partition. Once I turned the Windows indexing off on this
drive, it immediately picked up from 6.9 to 7.6.

Yousuf Khan
I can tell you that just now I replaced an SSD in one system that has
a SATA III mobo with a cloned HDD and the (Seagate Barracuda XT
ST33000651AS SATA 6GB/s) brought down the rating from 7.6 to 5.9. I am
not sure if the SSD is even aligned correctly and I haven't yet turned
off indexing.

I simply need more time to spend on this issue. Hopefully this
weekend. I appreciate you sharing your results and comments.

Al.

On 30/03/2012 3:56 AM, Allen Drake wrote:
I can tell you that just now I replaced an SSD in one system that has
a SATA III mobo with a cloned HDD and the (Seagate Barracuda XT
ST33000651AS SATA 6GB/s) brought down the rating from 7.6 to 5.9. I am
not sure if the SSD is even aligned correctly and I haven't yet turned
off indexing.

You replaced your SSD with another SSD or with an HDD? It's not entirely
clear to me from your quote above.

I simply need more time to spend on this issue. Hopefully this
weekend. I appreciate you sharing your results and comments.

I'm really pretty happy with how the SSD is performing now. I did my
first system image of the SSD, and it took just 6 minutes to do a full
backup! The same thing used to take 1 hour previously with the previous
HDD.

The responsive of the whole system finally seems commensurate with the
processor, RAM, and GPU that are already on the system, but were being
brought down by the hard drives.

Yousuf Khan

On 25/03/2012 5:30 AM, Dave-UK wrote:
"Yousuf Khan" wrote in message
No, I'm not worried about space, I bought one big enough to
accommodate everything that I have in my current boot drive. I'm more
worried about writing too much to the SSD. My understanding is that
SSD's wear down with too much writing to them. Thunderbird and the
swapfile would be some major recurring write events.

I think you are worrying too much about wear and tear on an SSD.
This will tell you how long you've got left. :-)
(There's a free or pro version)
http://www.ssd-life.com/

You're right, I was probably being pedantic about getting all write
operations off of the drive. Thunderbird, although it writes a lot to
disk, it doesn't really do anything too randomly or constantly. Most
writes are sequential since they happen to single database files, and
they happen maybe once every few minutes, not constantly. Thunderbird
does popup up really well when its database is located on the SSD.

However, I have taken the suggestion to remove the swapfile and disk
index from that drive seriously. Removing the disk index by itself
resulted in a 0.7 point increase in speed for the SSD (went from 6.9 to
7.6). That's probably a 9% increase.

Yousuf Khan

"Yousuf Khan" wrote in message ...
On 25/03/2012 5:30 AM, Dave-UK wrote:
"Yousuf Khan" wrote in message
No, I'm not worried about space, I bought one big enough to
accommodate everything that I have in my current boot drive. I'm more
worried about writing too much to the SSD. My understanding is that
SSD's wear down with too much writing to them. Thunderbird and the
swapfile would be some major recurring write events.

I think you are worrying too much about wear and tear on an SSD.
This will tell you how long you've got left. :-)
(There's a free or pro version)
http://www.ssd-life.com/

You're right, I was probably being pedantic about getting all write
operations off of the drive. Thunderbird, although it writes a lot to
disk, it doesn't really do anything too randomly or constantly. Most
writes are sequential since they happen to single database files, and
they happen maybe once every few minutes, not constantly. Thunderbird
does popup up really well when its database is located on the SSD.

However, I have taken the suggestion to remove the swapfile and disk
index from that drive seriously. Removing the disk index by itself
resulted in a 0.7 point increase in speed for the SSD (went from 6.9 to
7.6). That's probably a 9% increase.

Yousuf Khan

As I said before I had to stop Win7 from running the defrag schedule
but Win8 looks much better regarding SSDs.
The defrag option is now called ' Optimize and defrag drive' and
the 'Defragment now...' button is labelled 'Optimize'.
On running Optimize it takes about 2 seconds to 'trim' the drive (120 G/B).
Optimization is scheduled to run weekly by default.

On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 14:38:26 -0400, Yousuf Khan
wrote:

On 30/03/2012 3:56 AM, Allen Drake wrote:
I can tell you that just now I replaced an SSD in one system that has
a SATA III mobo with a cloned HDD and the (Seagate Barracuda XT
ST33000651AS SATA 6GB/s) brought down the rating from 7.6 to 5.9. I am
not sure if the SSD is even aligned correctly and I haven't yet turned
off indexing.

You replaced your SSD with another SSD or with an HDD? It's not entirely
clear to me from your quote above.

I simply need more time to spend on this issue. Hopefully this
weekend. I appreciate you sharing your results and comments.

I'm really pretty happy with how the SSD is performing now. I did my
first system image of the SSD, and it took just 6 minutes to do a full
backup! The same thing used to take 1 hour previously with the previous
HDD.

The responsive of the whole system finally seems commensurate with the
processor, RAM, and GPU that are already on the system, but were being
brought down by the hard drives.

Yousuf Khan

I reconnected an HDD that sits in a bay on a system that has that
drive installed as a backup. I did it so I could get the SSD ready for
either a clean install of W7 or alignment. At this time I am still not
sure what way to go. I have a total of 10 SSDs so far so I have to
plan on how I am going to use them. Some I may just keep as spare
hardware. I also bought a Crucial Adrenaline to play around with
sometime when I get the time.

http://www.crucial.com/store/ssc.asp...e=pd_google_us

I haven't really decided where to put it so it too sits on a shelf
along with several unused Crucial 256GB SSDs, a 90GB OCZ and a 128 GB
Kingston.

Out of all the advantages I see with SSDs is the two I have in an
Asus G73SW as it also draws less power and extends the battery life. I
just wish it has a SATA 6GB/s board.

Al.

On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 19:25:34 -0400, Allen Drake
wrote:

I reconnected an HDD that sits in a bay on a system that has that
drive installed as a backup. I did it so I could get the SSD ready for
either a clean install of W7 or alignment. At this time I am still not
sure what way to go. I have a total of 10 SSDs so far so I have to
plan on how I am going to use them. Some I may just keep as spare
hardware. I also bought a Crucial Adrenaline to play around with
sometime when I get the time.

http://www.crucial.com/store/ssc.asp...e=pd_google_us

I haven't really decided where to put it so it too sits on a shelf
along with several unused Crucial 256GB SSDs, a 90GB OCZ and a 128 GB
Kingston.

You're old, right? When you die, can I come and rummage through the
stuff on your shelves? You seem to have more stuff than you have time
to use. No hurry, I can wait a bit.

/back to lurk mode

On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 20:09:52 -0500, Ryan L.
wrote:

On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 19:25:34 -0400, Allen Drake
wrote:

I reconnected an HDD that sits in a bay on a system that has that
drive installed as a backup. I did it so I could get the SSD ready for
either a clean install of W7 or alignment. At this time I am still not
sure what way to go. I have a total of 10 SSDs so far so I have to
plan on how I am going to use them. Some I may just keep as spare
hardware. I also bought a Crucial Adrenaline to play around with
sometime when I get the time.

http://www.crucial.com/store/ssc.asp...e=pd_google_us

I haven't really decided where to put it so it too sits on a shelf
along with several unused Crucial 256GB SSDs, a 90GB OCZ and a 128 GB
Kingston.

You're old, right? When you die, can I come and rummage through the
stuff on your shelves? You seem to have more stuff than you have time
to use. No hurry, I can wait a bit.

/back to lurk mode
Old? I don't think of myself as old. I will be 65 in July. I never
smoked or drank or did drugs. I take no meds and have no known
ailments. I feel like I have always felt since I was a youth. I am not
over weight or out of shape in any way. I work on my feet 10 hours a
day sometimes 7 days a week. I love what I do. I have no children and
owe no one a dime. I pay cash for everything I don't need. I did,
however, buy several lottery tickets today in Burlington Ma. If I will
I will cut you in for a few Mil. of the projected half a billion. Good
luck, I hope I win.

Allen Drake wrote:
however, buy several lottery tickets today in Burlington Ma. If I will
I will cut you in for a few Mil. of the projected half a billion. Good
luck, I hope I win.

Your tax advisor should have told you that, since you know how to do
arithmetic, you are exempt from paying that tax.


--

Reply in group, but if emailing add one more
zero, and remove the last word.

On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 22:05:56 -0400, "Tom Del Rosso"
wrote:


Allen Drake wrote:
however, buy several lottery tickets today in Burlington Ma. If I will
I will cut you in for a few Mil. of the projected half a billion. Good
luck, I hope I win.

Your tax advisor should have told you that, since you know how to do
arithmetic, you are exempt from paying that tax.

Exactly. It's not by accident that they call the purchase of lottery
tickets a voluntary tax.

--

Char Jackson

Char Jackson wrote:
On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 22:05:56 -0400, "Tom Del Rosso"
wrote:


Allen Drake wrote:
however, buy several lottery tickets today in Burlington Ma. If I
will I will cut you in for a few Mil. of the projected half a
billion. Good luck, I hope I win.

Your tax advisor should have told you that, since you know how to do
arithmetic, you are exempt from paying that tax.

Exactly. It's not by accident that they call the purchase of lottery
tickets a voluntary tax.

It's astonishing when you consider that most governments outlaw casinos, yet
the odds at roulette are better by a few orders of magnitude.

If they outlawed booze, except for booze made by the state, would that also
be considered an acceptable role for government?


--

Reply in group, but if emailing add one more
zero, and remove the last word.

On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 22:05:56 -0400, "Tom Del Rosso"
wrote:


Allen Drake wrote:
however, buy several lottery tickets today in Burlington Ma. If I will
I will cut you in for a few Mil. of the projected half a billion. Good
luck, I hope I win.

Your tax advisor should have told you that, since you know how to do
arithmetic, you are exempt from paying that tax.

What tax? A capitol gains tax? I bet I pay more then Romney pays for
what he gains every year.

On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 23:06:22 -0400, "Tom Del Rosso"
wrote:


Char Jackson wrote:
On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 22:05:56 -0400, "Tom Del Rosso"
wrote:


Allen Drake wrote:
however, buy several lottery tickets today in Burlington Ma. If I
will I will cut you in for a few Mil. of the projected half a
billion. Good luck, I hope I win.

Your tax advisor should have told you that, since you know how to do
arithmetic, you are exempt from paying that tax.

Exactly. It's not by accident that they call the purchase of lottery
tickets a voluntary tax.

It's astonishing when you consider that most governments outlaw casinos, yet
the odds at roulette are better by a few orders of magnitude.

If they outlawed booze, except for booze made by the state, would that also
be considered an acceptable role for government?

They are now talking about building a CASIO somewhere is Mass. The
only gambling I do involves the 80 miles a day I drive to get to work.