OFF Topic - Walmart order

Hmm, well I remember you could get a variant of the old Philips VCR N1700
with bnc video in and out on the back as well as uhf.
The pictures were always better that way but they wanted nearly 100 quid
more just for two sockets!

Brian

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This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

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"Paul" wrote in message
news
Brian Gaff wrote:
Yes the majority of 1980s home computers with modulators used a phono
with a slightly shorter centre pin for uhf output.
However video in and out on vcrs used all manner of stuff from pl259 to
bnc and even as you say phonos as well.


The Spectrums 128 and up had what they described as a peritel din on them
for video, which was Oi think RGB with no level control.

That made some games with shade look a little peculiar at the time.
The whole field of socketry seems to have been non standard.
The Einstein computer had colour difference signals like the Spectrum
48k did as the composite on the edge connector was rubbish and full of
digital noise.
Brian


To me, the best connector I've seen on a computer
back in the "devil may care" era of connector design,
is this connector. A video connector where they actually
used coaxial carriage of RGB, right on the connector.
They still didn't seem to give a damn about HV though.
We had these on Sun computers at work.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DB13W3

The best monitor, was my old Trinitron, which had five BNC
on the back for RGBHV. So at least the monitor end was
nicely covered. The computer end was still
a standard VGA solution.

Paul

SC Tom wrote:


"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote in message
...
In message ,
pjp writes:
[]
a dvi to hdmi converter and run it into one of the hdmi ports on the tv.
It has specific audio inputs for just such a scenario. The question now
is does the composite input have it's own dedicated audio inputs also.
Manual isn't clear and there's no pic of the entire back inputs. In fact
pics in manual might not even mimic what tv actually looks like.

Don't come back to me if it isn't so, but I've never seen a TV with
composite video input that didn't have an accompanying pair of audio
inputs next to it. Usually all on "phono" (AKA "RCA") connectors,
which has always seemed an odd choice to me for a video signal, as
surely it was originally intended to be an audio connector (though
I've even seen it for UHF, e. g. modulator outputs).

Actually it should read "RCA (AKA "phono") connector." I think it became
known as a phono connector because people weren't really sure what an
RCA connector was, so to clarify it for the average user, it was
referred to as "phono." I can remember (barely) way back when I started
getting into hi-fi stereo equipment, my more knowledgeable friends would
talk about RCA connectors, and I really didn't know what they meant
until I was shown one, and I said, "Oh, a phono connector" :-)

But I digress . . . :-)

The Cinch connector can be used two ways.

You can solder a twisted pair to it, one conductor ground,
one conductor having an audio signal. And that makes
it a kind of audio cable.

But you can also solder a coax cable to it, the braid
goes to shield, the center wire goes into the pin. That
provides a roughly 75 ohm environment for controlled
impedance transmission of high frequency baseband or
some kind of RF signal.

As a result, you may see different kinds of cables
with Cinch on the ends, and they're not all
created equal. You have to think about what
you're doing, as to whether a "thinner one"
is the right one for the job.

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/91-aud...deo-cable.html

If you make up a twisted pair of wires, the transmission
line impedance may be around 100 to 110 ohms or so. This
is why you can still *attempt* to run video through
such cables, but it isn't a good match for the impedances
on the ends of the line. There might be reflections or
ghosting seen.

And there's a whole corpus of info about running audio
signals that I won't attempt to rewrite - because
I'll get it wrong. The above is just to give
some explanation of how there can be two types of
cables. Some of the Cinch audio cables were invented
before there were video applications, so there was
no need to be using coax for everything.

I've worked with Cinch as a hobbyist, tried to solder
to it, and so on :-) What a mess. If you get the central
pin too hot, the plastic dielectric can melt. The pin
can end up off-center. There's no guarantee that the
materials used inside a Cinch, are "soldering iron safe".

To connect to the shield on the Cinch, some have a curved
lip, and you can wrap solid wire into that lip,
and twist the ends tight to get a grip on the
connector. That might work to allow jerry-rigging
a cable you made. I have also tried soldering
braid, or wrapping solid wire around the braid
where it meets the shell. But it's really a mess
to be making your own cabling. There are other
coaxial connectors, which come as an "assembly kit",
you strip the insulation, and a ring nut clamps down
on the materials and makes a nice connection. I've
not seen anything similar for Cinch, so it's
"solder and pray" as it were.

Paul

On Wed, 20 Dec 2017 13:55:27 -0500, Paul wrote:

The Cinch connector can be used two ways.

You can solder a twisted pair to it, one conductor ground,
one conductor having an audio signal. And that makes
it a kind of audio cable.

But you can also solder a coax cable to it, the braid
goes to shield, the center wire goes into the pin. That
provides a roughly 75 ohm environment for controlled
impedance transmission of high frequency baseband or
some kind of RF signal.

Having never heard of a Cinch connector, I turned to Google and found
that Cinch is a company that makes well over 200,000 kinds of
connectors, which begs the question, when you refer to a Cinch
connector, are you referring to an RCA connector? When I check Google
images for a Cinch connector, I do get images of RCA connectors, (among
others), so I think that's it.

Is Cinch a popular brand name in your neck of the woods? Is this very
popular connector not called an RCA connector up north? With so many
companies making them, I'm curious to know how Cinch got themselves
associated with this item.

I get the idea regarding Kleenex, Velcro, and Jell-O, but Cinch is a new
one.

--

Char Jackson

Char Jackson wrote:


Having never heard of a Cinch connector, I turned to Google and found
that Cinch is a company that makes well over 200,000 kinds of
connectors, which begs the question, when you refer to a Cinch
connector, are you referring to an RCA connector? When I check Google
images for a Cinch connector, I do get images of RCA connectors, (among
others), so I think that's it.

Is Cinch a popular brand name in your neck of the woods? Is this very
popular connector not called an RCA connector up north? With so many
companies making them, I'm curious to know how Cinch got themselves
associated with this item.

I get the idea regarding Kleenex, Velcro, and Jell-O, but Cinch is a new
one.

The main problem I have, is if I write a description where
I call the thing an RCA connector, some wise-guy will pipe up
and say "oh, you mean a Cinch connector", and... vice versa.

Here's a suggested article.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RCA_connector

Here are some samples from my parts cabinet.

https://s14.postimg.org/xah6kmdld/rca_phono_plugs.gif

Paul

In article , lid says...

SC Tom wrote:


"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote in message
...
In message ,
pjp writes:
[]
a dvi to hdmi converter and run it into one of the hdmi ports on the tv.
It has specific audio inputs for just such a scenario. The question now
is does the composite input have it's own dedicated audio inputs also.
Manual isn't clear and there's no pic of the entire back inputs. In fact
pics in manual might not even mimic what tv actually looks like.

Don't come back to me if it isn't so, but I've never seen a TV with
composite video input that didn't have an accompanying pair of audio
inputs next to it. Usually all on "phono" (AKA "RCA") connectors,
which has always seemed an odd choice to me for a video signal, as
surely it was originally intended to be an audio connector (though
I've even seen it for UHF, e. g. modulator outputs).

Actually it should read "RCA (AKA "phono") connector." I think it became
known as a phono connector because people weren't really sure what an
RCA connector was, so to clarify it for the average user, it was
referred to as "phono." I can remember (barely) way back when I started
getting into hi-fi stereo equipment, my more knowledgeable friends would
talk about RCA connectors, and I really didn't know what they meant
until I was shown one, and I said, "Oh, a phono connector" :-)

But I digress . . . :-)

The Cinch connector can be used two ways.

You can solder a twisted pair to it, one conductor ground,
one conductor having an audio signal. And that makes
it a kind of audio cable.

But you can also solder a coax cable to it, the braid
goes to shield, the center wire goes into the pin. That
provides a roughly 75 ohm environment for controlled
impedance transmission of high frequency baseband or
some kind of RF signal.

As a result, you may see different kinds of cables
with Cinch on the ends, and they're not all
created equal. You have to think about what
you're doing, as to whether a "thinner one"
is the right one for the job.


Seems to have gone oo topic but I thought I'd update experience.

Took three days for Walmart to email confirmation item was shipped. When
purchased delivery date instead of the 19th became the 22nd. Had a
Loomis Waybill/tracking # with the email.

Looms seems to know nothing about the Waybill # even 48 hours later.
Looms calls me back stating Walmart has issued the Waybill # but not yet
used it. I'm wondering WTF is going on then? Walmart calls next day
after an email prior day asking questions. I'm told sorry that Waybill #
is not valid but call finished without me having a valid waybill #,
expected delivery date or if it's even been shipped yet.

I was left feeling/thinking - Well so much for that family Christmas
present being under the tree.

Well it came today. One day after original date web site gave when
purchasing and day before email stated it would be delivered.

I'll hold off being happy about it until I see tv channels, PC and Blue-
Ray all properly working with a good picture and decent sound.

In message , Wolf K
writes:
On 2017-12-20 12:14, Brian Gaff wrote:
Hmm, well I remember you could get a variant of the old Philips VCR N1700
with bnc video in and out on the back as well as uhf.
The pictures were always better that way but they wanted nearly 100 quid
more just for two sockets!
Brian


A lot more than just two sockets. :-)

Yes, probably a "safe" as opposed to floating power supply, for a start.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Radio 4 is the civilising influence in this country ... I think it is the most
important institution in this country. - John Humphrys, Radio Times
7-13/06/2003

In message , Paul
writes:
SC Tom wrote:
[]
Actually it should read "RCA (AKA "phono") connector." I think it
became known as a phono connector because people weren't really sure
what an RCA connector was, so to clarify it for the average user, it
was referred to as "phono." I can remember (barely) way back when I
started getting into hi-fi stereo equipment, my more knowledgeable
friends would talk about RCA connectors, and I really didn't know
what they meant until I was shown one, and I said, "Oh, a phono connector" :-)

OK, I'd have said the same. Though can't understand why "phono" is more
intuitive (I wouldn't have thought of phonographs). I used to think of
them as "why use four when one [DIN] can serve the purpose - far more
opportunity for plugging them into the wrong place". (But see below re
DIN.)

But I digress . . . :-)

I like digressions too (-:

The Cinch connector can be used two ways.

(Like Char Jackson, I had no idea what you meant, but like him I'm
assuming you mean what the rest of us are calling phono or RCA.)
[]
I've worked with Cinch as a hobbyist, tried to solder
to it, and so on :-) What a mess. If you get the central
pin too hot, the plastic dielectric can melt. The pin
can end up off-center. There's no guarantee that the
materials used inside a Cinch, are "soldering iron safe".

Same applies (with knobs on because you're trying to make about five
connections) to "DIN" connectors. [Yes, I know DIN - Deutsche Industrie
Norme - is a standards body and covers lots; I mean the about half-inch
ones with lots of, usually but not always audio, pins, at one time
beloved by Philips, and many German manufacturers (Philips Gloeilampen
was originally NL).] My original cassette recorder - the one with the
"gearshift" control, rather than piano keys - had them.

I used to like the _principle_ of the (180°) DIN connector: much more
compact than four phonos, and you couldn't plug the signals into the
wrong place. (I also much preferred them horizontal, rather than rotated
45° into a sort of "diagonal" alignment as some chassis did; no
technical reason, I just thought they looked neater.) However, it did
suffer from corrosion of the pins (did they use bare aluminium or
something?), as well as the tendency of the plastic holding plate to
melt during soldering.
[]
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Radio 4 is the civilising influence in this country ... I think it is the most
important institution in this country. - John Humphrys, Radio Times
7-13/06/2003

pjp wrote:


Took three days for Walmart to email confirmation item was shipped. When
purchased delivery date instead of the 19th became the 22nd. Had a
Loomis Waybill/tracking # with the email.

Looms seems to know nothing about the Waybill # even 48 hours later.
Looms calls me back stating Walmart has issued the Waybill # but not yet
used it. I'm wondering WTF is going on then? Walmart calls next day
after an email prior day asking questions. I'm told sorry that Waybill #
is not valid but call finished without me having a valid waybill #,
expected delivery date or if it's even been shipped yet.

I was left feeling/thinking - Well so much for that family Christmas
present being under the tree.

Well it came today. One day after original date web site gave when
purchasing and day before email stated it would be delivered.

I'll hold off being happy about it until I see tv channels, PC and Blue-
Ray all properly working with a good picture and decent sound.

Some couriers allow the users of their service, to issue
their own tracking number. However, the number does not
mean an item is "in the system".

In the case of US Post/Canada Post, an item can enter
their system and from there, no further tracking info
is collected. Until it arrives in your letter box.

Tracking systems in 2017 are highly overrated, because
hardly any of them work properly. You really have no
idea where an item is - it might not have left a
shipping dock.

Even though you do see the truck driver scanning the
item, taking your signature and so on. The tracking
info is still there, it's just not available to a
consumer.

Paul

In message , pjp
writes:
[]
Seems to have gone oo topic but I thought I'd update experience.

Thanks.
[]
Well it came today. One day after original date web site gave when
purchasing and day before email stated it would be delivered.

I'll hold off being happy about it until I see tv channels, PC and Blue-
Ray all properly working with a good picture and decent sound.

I presume it _does_ have the VGA connector, or whichever it was that you
weren't sure whether it had or not.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Reality television. It's eroding the ability of good scripted television to
survive. - Patrick Duffy in Radio Times 2-8 February 2013

In article , says...

In message , pjp
writes:
[]
Seems to have gone oo topic but I thought I'd update experience.

Thanks.
[]
Well it came today. One day after original date web site gave when
purchasing and day before email stated it would be delivered.

I'll hold off being happy about it until I see tv channels, PC and Blue-
Ray all properly working with a good picture and decent sound.

I presume it _does_ have the VGA connector, or whichever it was that you
weren't sure whether it had or not.

I won't be opening it till Christmas day so unsure but if Sanyo's
downloaded User Manual is accurate then No it does not have a standard
VGA connector even though Walmart states it does.

That said, the pc I will connect to it does have a DVI output and I do
have both the DVI to HDMI converter and neccessary cable to "create" an
HDMI output from the pc. The TV has an HDMI port that "expects" audio on
a separate input so that should do fine I would think.

What I am curious about is that that same HDMI port also appears to be
an HDMI output for connecting to digital recorder etc. Didn't know they
even allowed that feature and always assumed any recorder would have to
be before the tv saw it, e.g. copy protection.

pjp wrote:


What I am curious about is that that same HDMI port also appears to be
an HDMI output for connecting to digital recorder etc. Didn't know they
even allowed that feature and always assumed any recorder would have to
be before the tv saw it, e.g. copy protection.

And what if there was HDCP on that connector ? :-(

Paul

On Wed, 20 Dec 2017 22:36:18 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
wrote:

Same applies (with knobs on because you're trying to make about five
connections) to "DIN" connectors. [Yes, I know DIN - Deutsche Industrie
Norme - is a standards body and covers lots; I mean the about half-inch
ones with lots of, usually but not always audio, pins, at one time
beloved by Philips, and many German manufacturers (Philips Gloeilampen
was originally NL).] My original cassette recorder - the one with the
"gearshift" control, rather than piano keys - had them.

I had the Craig 212 reel-to-reel which had sort of a "gearshift"
control. I loved it.

https://www.google.com/search?q=craig+212+tape+recorder

--

Char Jackson

On Wed, 20 Dec 2017 16:51:03 -0500, Paul wrote:

Char Jackson wrote:


Having never heard of a Cinch connector, I turned to Google and found
that Cinch is a company that makes well over 200,000 kinds of
connectors, which begs the question, when you refer to a Cinch
connector, are you referring to an RCA connector? When I check Google
images for a Cinch connector, I do get images of RCA connectors, (among
others), so I think that's it.

Is Cinch a popular brand name in your neck of the woods? Is this very
popular connector not called an RCA connector up north? With so many
companies making them, I'm curious to know how Cinch got themselves
associated with this item.

I get the idea regarding Kleenex, Velcro, and Jell-O, but Cinch is a new
one.

The main problem I have, is if I write a description where
I call the thing an RCA connector, some wise-guy will pipe up
and say "oh, you mean a Cinch connector", and... vice versa.

Did I just get called a wise guy? I was asking an honest question.

Here's a suggested article.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RCA_connector

From that article:
"An RCA connector, sometimes called a phono connector or (in other
languages) Cinch connector,..."

Being Canadian, I guess you're covered under the "other languages"
clause, although your English is quite good. ;-)

--

Char Jackson

In article ,
lid says...

I had the Craig 212 reel-to-reel which had sort of a "gearshift"
control. I loved it.

https://www.google.com/search?q=craig+212+tape+recorder


This side of the pond it would be the BSR tape deck used in a
wide variety of machines - this one look home made:

https://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NzY4WDEwMjQ=/z/H4kAAOSwQupXXHYC/$_
86.JPG

or: https://tinyurl.com/ybedzdfj

The Philips casette machine that John referred to looks like
this:


http://www.acquris.se/images/philips_2202.jpg

--

Terry

---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com

On Thu, 21 Dec 2017 13:38:43 -0000, Terry Casey
wrote:

In article ,
says...

I had the Craig 212 reel-to-reel which had sort of a "gearshift"
control. I loved it.

https://www.google.com/search?q=craig+212+tape+recorder


This side of the pond it would be the BSR tape deck used in a
wide variety of machines - this one look home made:

https://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NzY4WDEwMjQ=/z/H4kAAOSwQupXXHYC/$_86.JPG

or: https://tinyurl.com/ybedzdfj

The Philips casette machine that John referred to looks like
this:


http://www.acquris.se/images/philips_2202.jpg

Cool, thanks for the flashbacks. :-)
Similar concepts, slightly different execution.

--

Char Jackson