If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
|
Thread Tools | Rate Thread | Display Modes |
#16
|
|||
|
|||
RAM on ASUS mobo
Paul wrote:
Ed Cryer wrote: Paul wrote: Ed Cryer wrote: Andy Burns wrote: Ed Cryer wrote: The four are all the same; all 1600MHz, DDR3, 8GB. Well, theoretically they are fine for that MB. https://www.corsair.com/uk/en/Categories/Products/Memory/Mainstream-Memory/Corsair-Memory-%E2%80%94-8GB-DDR3-Memory/p/CMV8GX3M1A1600C11 Try a pair of the new ones in the blue slots at the tested speed of 1333MHzÂ*Â*Â* 9-9-9-24 if that works then all four at that speed. if that works, try two and finally all four of them at the XMS speed of 1600MHz 11-11-11-30 I've not used an AMD CPU for years, so I'll take Paul's word for it that a quad SIMM configuration is tricky.Â* I have no issues with 4x8GB on "workstation" class intel motherboards. Thanks for this. This sounds practical. I shall try them, as you say. Please explain "9-9-9-24"; and tell me how to set the speed. Ed 9-9-9-24 tCAS tRCD tRP tRC In roughly the same order as your DRAM customization screen. The numbers are counts of "cycles". At 1600MHz, the inverse is 0.6ns. 9 cycles at 0.6ns is 5.4ns. Internally, all the RAM understands is nanoseconds. "Did you meet my 5.4ns minimum ???" it asks. If the RAM is set to DDR1333, the inverse of that is 0.75ns. To make a number close to 5.4ns, we need about 7.2 cycles. Rounding up, 8 cycles would work, without causing a smaller number than the 5.4ns minimum. 9-9-9-24 DDR3-1600 or 8-8-8-X DDR3-1333 The timing table you can see in CPUZ shows example timings that are recorded in the SPD for this. Other values can be done by the BIOS code by interpolation and so on. Â*Â*Â* Paul Here are the SPD tabs of CPU-Z for the two working modules. Any comments? https://www.dropbox.com/s/1d8v4h5mji...ts2-4.png?dl=0 Ed Assuming those two samples are DIMMs from different sets, they're very close to one another at the top setting. You could start by using the frequency setting, and let the BIOS do the math on the individual timings. ******* Â*Â* AI Overclock Tuner [Manual] Â*Â* Memory FrequencyÂ*Â* [DDR3-1600]Â* === Start with 1600, switch to 1333 if Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* there is trouble, let the BIOS do the Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* math for the rest. Â*Â* DRAM Timing ControlÂ*Â* [example at 1600] Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* tCASÂ*Â* Auto (11) Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* tRCDÂ*Â* Auto (11) Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* tRPÂ*Â*Â* Auto (11) Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* tRCÂ*Â*Â* Auto (41) Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* DRAM Command RateÂ* 2TÂ*Â*Â*Â* === definitely want 2T Â*Â* DRAM VoltageÂ* [1.50V]Â*Â*Â*Â* === You should be able to use between Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* 1.5 and 1.65V without issue. Â*Â* NB VoltageÂ*Â*Â* [Auto]Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* === Leave this for now If that doesn't work:Â* 11-12-11-41 Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* tRCDÂ*Â* 12 Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* DRAM Voltage [1.65V] If that doesn't work Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* tCASÂ*Â* 12 Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* tRCDÂ*Â* 12 Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* tRPÂ*Â*Â* 12 Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* tRCÂ*Â*Â* Auto === let BIOS work it out Sometimes, the error rate and whether the errors are exactly reproducible on each run, hints at whether the RAM chips have an issue, or the bus timing is flaky, or the Vnb needs to be adjusted up a notch or two. The Vnb regulators now have fairly tiny step sizes and are capable of fine adjustment. ******* While your board has an "auto overclock" kind of feature, I don't like the voltages or extreme settings those tend to use. Yes, if you jam the controls to max, you can practically guarantee an overclock, and the methods they use on these boards aren't exactly "subtle". Still, if you read an article somewhere that says the method used is good, I won't argue with that. I try to sneak up on the settings if I can, and prefer to not apply extreme voltages if I can avoid it. My previous set of "hot DIMMs" had a problem, so I'm trying to not make any more "hot DIMMs" on purpose by using extreme settings. When the RAM on the machine started throwing errors a couple of sets of RAM ago, I used Vnb as the only setting, to fix it. Nothing else needed to be adjusted. I could do this though, because I was working on a theory that the Northbridge was aging. I knew the settings I'd used for everything else, were fine at the time of the build. Normally, the board will be selecting Command Rate 2T on its own, whether because the DIMM clock is rather high, or because the bus is loaded (four DIMMs). There's hardly a chance to realistically use 1T (maybe a single set of single sided 4GB DIMMs). Maybe you'll have more joy at 1333, with a full set. Some older AMD setups used to work that way, DDR400 with two DIMMs, DDR333 with four DIMMs. HTH, Â*Â*Â* Paul This looks brilliant to me, Paul, and I thank you heartily. It scares me a bit, though. I've never done memory-module clocking and setting before; and when I went into the BIOS of this new machine it presented me with a screen that looked like something from a flight-deck. UEFI; so I clicked on "exit advanced" and it exited into booting. I have some learning to do here, including the pages from the mobo manual that Andy has shown me. I'll get round to it. Ed |
Ads |
#17
|
|||
|
|||
RAM on ASUS mobo
Ed Cryer wrote:
Paul wrote: Ed Cryer wrote: Paul wrote: Ed Cryer wrote: Andy Burns wrote: Ed Cryer wrote: The four are all the same; all 1600MHz, DDR3, 8GB. Well, theoretically they are fine for that MB. https://www.corsair.com/uk/en/Categories/Products/Memory/Mainstream-Memory/Corsair-Memory-%E2%80%94-8GB-DDR3-Memory/p/CMV8GX3M1A1600C11 Try a pair of the new ones in the blue slots at the tested speed of 1333MHz 9-9-9-24 if that works then all four at that speed. if that works, try two and finally all four of them at the XMS speed of 1600MHz 11-11-11-30 I've not used an AMD CPU for years, so I'll take Paul's word for it that a quad SIMM configuration is tricky. I have no issues with 4x8GB on "workstation" class intel motherboards. Thanks for this. This sounds practical. I shall try them, as you say. Please explain "9-9-9-24"; and tell me how to set the speed. Ed 9-9-9-24 tCAS tRCD tRP tRC In roughly the same order as your DRAM customization screen. The numbers are counts of "cycles". At 1600MHz, the inverse is 0.6ns. 9 cycles at 0.6ns is 5.4ns. Internally, all the RAM understands is nanoseconds. "Did you meet my 5.4ns minimum ???" it asks. If the RAM is set to DDR1333, the inverse of that is 0.75ns. To make a number close to 5.4ns, we need about 7.2 cycles. Rounding up, 8 cycles would work, without causing a smaller number than the 5.4ns minimum. 9-9-9-24 DDR3-1600 or 8-8-8-X DDR3-1333 The timing table you can see in CPUZ shows example timings that are recorded in the SPD for this. Other values can be done by the BIOS code by interpolation and so on. Paul Here are the SPD tabs of CPU-Z for the two working modules. Any comments? https://www.dropbox.com/s/1d8v4h5mji...ts2-4.png?dl=0 Ed Assuming those two samples are DIMMs from different sets, they're very close to one another at the top setting. You could start by using the frequency setting, and let the BIOS do the math on the individual timings. ******* AI Overclock Tuner [Manual] Memory Frequency [DDR3-1600] === Start with 1600, switch to 1333 if there is trouble, let the BIOS do the math for the rest. DRAM Timing Control [example at 1600] tCAS Auto (11) tRCD Auto (11) tRP Auto (11) tRC Auto (41) DRAM Command Rate 2T === definitely want 2T DRAM Voltage [1.50V] === You should be able to use between 1.5 and 1.65V without issue. NB Voltage [Auto] === Leave this for now If that doesn't work: 11-12-11-41 tRCD 12 DRAM Voltage [1.65V] If that doesn't work tCAS 12 tRCD 12 tRP 12 tRC Auto === let BIOS work it out Sometimes, the error rate and whether the errors are exactly reproducible on each run, hints at whether the RAM chips have an issue, or the bus timing is flaky, or the Vnb needs to be adjusted up a notch or two. The Vnb regulators now have fairly tiny step sizes and are capable of fine adjustment. ******* While your board has an "auto overclock" kind of feature, I don't like the voltages or extreme settings those tend to use. Yes, if you jam the controls to max, you can practically guarantee an overclock, and the methods they use on these boards aren't exactly "subtle". Still, if you read an article somewhere that says the method used is good, I won't argue with that. I try to sneak up on the settings if I can, and prefer to not apply extreme voltages if I can avoid it. My previous set of "hot DIMMs" had a problem, so I'm trying to not make any more "hot DIMMs" on purpose by using extreme settings. When the RAM on the machine started throwing errors a couple of sets of RAM ago, I used Vnb as the only setting, to fix it. Nothing else needed to be adjusted. I could do this though, because I was working on a theory that the Northbridge was aging. I knew the settings I'd used for everything else, were fine at the time of the build. Normally, the board will be selecting Command Rate 2T on its own, whether because the DIMM clock is rather high, or because the bus is loaded (four DIMMs). There's hardly a chance to realistically use 1T (maybe a single set of single sided 4GB DIMMs). Maybe you'll have more joy at 1333, with a full set. Some older AMD setups used to work that way, DDR400 with two DIMMs, DDR333 with four DIMMs. HTH, Paul This looks brilliant to me, Paul, and I thank you heartily. It scares me a bit, though. I've never done memory-module clocking and setting before; and when I went into the BIOS of this new machine it presented me with a screen that looked like something from a flight-deck. UEFI; so I clicked on "exit advanced" and it exited into booting. I have some learning to do here, including the pages from the mobo manual that Andy has shown me. I'll get round to it. Ed There are sufficient "Autos" in there, you can work it a bit at a time. For example, if you're timid, you can just dial the DDR3-1600 setting to DDR3-1333 and see if that's enough to get it working. Then you don't have to look at all those pesky Tthis and Tthat ones. And memtest86+ can give you a good idea how close you're getting, or whether the situation is "hopeless". On my floppy-less computer, I use a USB floppy drive for "tradition" and load the memtest86+ floppy that way. (This would be with *no* Windows hard drives connected, for safety from corruption.) For example, my old Asrock motherboard, the documentation (even the VIA website that made the chipset) said only 1GB DIMMs worked. Well, I plugged in a 2GB DIMM and it was fully recognized. But, what was the problem ? It was throwing errors. Since the BIOS designers believed the documentation they were given, they never "tuned" operation of the board for a 2GB stick. There's a certain parameter that needs tuning in a lab, and it would require me to do 256 test cases to "nail" the timing (by trial and error). Well, that simply wasn't going to happen. I don't have the stamina for that. Your situation isn't nearly as bad, as the hardware is mostly dialed in, and it could take as little as one parameter change to tip it upright. Relaxing a single timing, or adjusting the voltage within safe limits, could be enough to make a difference. I've spent as long as a week working on this stuff, but I don't do that any more. Minimal change, test for stability, and move on... :-) It's one of the reasons I really like XMP. It does everything for you, but only with two sticks. It's a bit too hard for the manufacturer to test and guarantee that four sticks will work in XMP setup mode, and the table in the DIMM may not have the info needed. XMP is a section of the SPD table, that was not designed by JEDEC. Some "computer people" dreamed it up. If only the process was rigorous enough to standardize... Paul |
#18
|
|||
|
|||
RAM on ASUS mobo
Paul wrote:
Ed Cryer wrote: Paul wrote: Ed Cryer wrote: Paul wrote: Ed Cryer wrote: Andy Burns wrote: Ed Cryer wrote: The four are all the same; all 1600MHz, DDR3, 8GB. Well, theoretically they are fine for that MB. https://www.corsair.com/uk/en/Categories/Products/Memory/Mainstream-Memory/Corsair-Memory-%E2%80%94-8GB-DDR3-Memory/p/CMV8GX3M1A1600C11 Try a pair of the new ones in the blue slots at the tested speed of 1333MHzÂ*Â*Â* 9-9-9-24 if that works then all four at that speed. if that works, try two and finally all four of them at the XMS speed of 1600MHz 11-11-11-30 I've not used an AMD CPU for years, so I'll take Paul's word for it that a quad SIMM configuration is tricky.Â* I have no issues with 4x8GB on "workstation" class intel motherboards. Thanks for this. This sounds practical. I shall try them, as you say. Please explain "9-9-9-24"; and tell me how to set the speed. Ed 9-9-9-24 tCAS tRCD tRP tRC In roughly the same order as your DRAM customization screen. The numbers are counts of "cycles". At 1600MHz, the inverse is 0.6ns. 9 cycles at 0.6ns is 5.4ns. Internally, all the RAM understands is nanoseconds. "Did you meet my 5.4ns minimum ???" it asks. If the RAM is set to DDR1333, the inverse of that is 0.75ns. To make a number close to 5.4ns, we need about 7.2 cycles. Rounding up, 8 cycles would work, without causing a smaller number than the 5.4ns minimum. 9-9-9-24 DDR3-1600 or 8-8-8-X DDR3-1333 The timing table you can see in CPUZ shows example timings that are recorded in the SPD for this. Other values can be done by the BIOS code by interpolation and so on. Â*Â*Â* Paul Here are the SPD tabs of CPU-Z for the two working modules. Any comments? https://www.dropbox.com/s/1d8v4h5mji...ts2-4.png?dl=0 Ed Assuming those two samples are DIMMs from different sets, they're very close to one another at the top setting. You could start by using the frequency setting, and let the BIOS do the math on the individual timings. ******* Â*Â*Â* AI Overclock Tuner [Manual] Â*Â*Â* Memory FrequencyÂ*Â* [DDR3-1600]Â* === Start with 1600, switch to 1333 if Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* there is trouble, let the BIOS do the Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* math for the rest. Â*Â*Â* DRAM Timing ControlÂ*Â* [example at 1600] Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* tCASÂ*Â* Auto (11) Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* tRCDÂ*Â* Auto (11) Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* tRPÂ*Â*Â* Auto (11) Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* tRCÂ*Â*Â* Auto (41) Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* DRAM Command RateÂ* 2TÂ*Â*Â*Â* === definitely want 2T Â*Â*Â* DRAM VoltageÂ* [1.50V]Â*Â*Â*Â* === You should be able to use between Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* 1.5 and 1.65V without issue. Â*Â*Â* NB VoltageÂ*Â*Â* [Auto]Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* === Leave this for now If that doesn't work:Â* 11-12-11-41 Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* tRCDÂ*Â* 12 Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* DRAM Voltage [1.65V] If that doesn't work Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* tCASÂ*Â* 12 Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* tRCDÂ*Â* 12 Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* tRPÂ*Â*Â* 12 Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* tRCÂ*Â*Â* Auto === let BIOS work it out Sometimes, the error rate and whether the errors are exactly reproducible on each run, hints at whether the RAM chips have an issue, or the bus timing is flaky, or the Vnb needs to be adjusted up a notch or two. The Vnb regulators now have fairly tiny step sizes and are capable of fine adjustment. ******* While your board has an "auto overclock" kind of feature, I don't like the voltages or extreme settings those tend to use. Yes, if you jam the controls to max, you can practically guarantee an overclock, and the methods they use on these boards aren't exactly "subtle". Still, if you read an article somewhere that says the method used is good, I won't argue with that. I try to sneak up on the settings if I can, and prefer to not apply extreme voltages if I can avoid it. My previous set of "hot DIMMs" had a problem, so I'm trying to not make any more "hot DIMMs" on purpose by using extreme settings. When the RAM on the machine started throwing errors a couple of sets of RAM ago, I used Vnb as the only setting, to fix it. Nothing else needed to be adjusted. I could do this though, because I was working on a theory that the Northbridge was aging. I knew the settings I'd used for everything else, were fine at the time of the build. Normally, the board will be selecting Command Rate 2T on its own, whether because the DIMM clock is rather high, or because the bus is loaded (four DIMMs). There's hardly a chance to realistically use 1T (maybe a single set of single sided 4GB DIMMs). Maybe you'll have more joy at 1333, with a full set. Some older AMD setups used to work that way, DDR400 with two DIMMs, DDR333 with four DIMMs. HTH, Â*Â*Â*Â* Paul This looks brilliant to me, Paul, and I thank you heartily. It scares me a bit, though. I've never done memory-module clocking and setting before; and when I went into the BIOS of this new machine it presented me with a screen that looked like something from a flight-deck. UEFI; so I clicked on "exit advanced" and it exited into booting. I have some learning to do here, including the pages from the mobo manual that Andy has shown me. I'll get round to it. Ed There are sufficient "Autos" in there, you can work it a bit at a time. For example, if you're timid, you can just dial the DDR3-1600 setting to DDR3-1333 and see if that's enough to get it working. Then you don't have to look at all those pesky Tthis and Tthat ones. And memtest86+ can give you a good idea how close you're getting, or whether the situation is "hopeless". On my floppy-less computer, I use a USB floppy drive for "tradition" and load the memtest86+ floppy that way. (This would be with *no* Windows hard drives connected, for safety from corruption.) For example, my old Asrock motherboard, the documentation (even the VIA website that made the chipset) said only 1GB DIMMs worked. Well, I plugged in a 2GB DIMM and it was fully recognized. But, what was the problem ? It was throwing errors. Since the BIOS designers believed the documentation they were given, they never "tuned" operation of the board for a 2GB stick. There's a certain parameter that needs tuning in a lab, and it would require me to do 256 test cases to "nail" the timing (by trial and error). Well, that simply wasn't going to happen. I don't have the stamina for that. Your situation isn't nearly as bad, as the hardware is mostly dialed in, and it could take as little as one parameter change to tip it upright. Relaxing a single timing, or adjusting the voltage within safe limits, could be enough to make a difference. I've spent as long as a week working on this stuff, but I don't do that any more. Minimal change, test for stability, and move on... :-) It's one of the reasons I really like XMP. It does everything for you, but only with two sticks. It's a bit too hard for the manufacturer to test and guarantee that four sticks will work in XMP setup mode, and the table in the DIMM may not have the info needed. XMP is a section of the SPD table, that was not designed by JEDEC. Some "computer people" dreamed it up. If only the process was rigorous enough to standardize... Â*Â* Paul You're a delight to correspond with, Paul. You have something that I think Ernest Shackleton must have had; perseverance and gumption way beyond the average. My father was named "Ernest" after him, and if I'm ever trapped in Antarctica Id like to have him with me. Do you know his story? You might be interested in this communication from the forum of the manufacturers. I don't want him in the Antarctic with me; a quitter he seems to be. ******************* "I take it you only have those 2 slots populated because if you try to populate the other 2 slots the system doesn't load Windows as you were saying. If you remove the pair you know to work fine and put the new pair of 8gb sticks into those slots, do they work as a pair on their own? Since we shouldn't discount out of hand the chance that the new kit is faulty. If they're not faulty, and the system loads Windows , what does the SPD tab say for those? You could also try only 1 of your 4 sticks at a time and leave the PC running Memtest overnight for each to see whether any 1 of the 4 sticks is faulty. https://www.memtest86.com/ In the meantime, going by what you've already posted: The RAM you've installed is a different frequency and has different timings to each other: -Always install DIMMs with the same CAS latency. For optimal compatibility, we recommend that you install memory modules of the same version or date code (D/C) from the same vendor. Check with the retailer toget the correct memory modules. This is in the manual as you say and also on the QVL: http://dlcdnet.asus.com/pub/ASUS/mb/...748.1522537474 The QVL is the list of RAM that's guaranteed compatible with the mobo. Lots of others will also work too, but if you mix and match RAM of different timings and frequencies that aren't on the QVL and then it doesn't work, it's unfortunately not entirely surprising. It's actually not at all unheard of for apparently identical RAM (same model names, same frequencies, same latencies - but often different manufacture dates) to not be compatible if they are not purchased as a matched kit. They can be made with different dies, or something. If the system lets you into the BIOS with all 4 sticks in you could try lowering the frequency and loosening the timings to the lowest values they have in common and see if that helps. That's more effort than I'd be bothered with though. Another question is whether you need 32gb RAM? This is an extremely old set of CPUs and motherboard and most tasks would be badly bottlenecked by other parts of the system e.g. the CPU long before RAM usage was an issue. e.g. gaming, video editing. Probably even something like VMs. Your best option may be to return your two most recently purchased sticks and stick to 16gb." ***************** All the best, Ed P.S. That guy's estimate of how long a memtest would take is way off. I ran it with two sticks in, and it took not much longer than 40 mins. for the full two passes on the 16GB. |
#19
|
|||
|
|||
RAM on ASUS mobo
Ed Cryer wrote:
Paul wrote: Ed Cryer wrote: Paul wrote: Ed Cryer wrote: Paul wrote: Ed Cryer wrote: Andy Burns wrote: Ed Cryer wrote: The four are all the same; all 1600MHz, DDR3, 8GB. Well, theoretically they are fine for that MB. https://www.corsair.com/uk/en/Categories/Products/Memory/Mainstream-Memory/Corsair-Memory-%E2%80%94-8GB-DDR3-Memory/p/CMV8GX3M1A1600C11 Try a pair of the new ones in the blue slots at the tested speed of 1333MHzÂ*Â*Â* 9-9-9-24 if that works then all four at that speed. if that works, try two and finally all four of them at the XMS speed of 1600MHz 11-11-11-30 I've not used an AMD CPU for years, so I'll take Paul's word for it that a quad SIMM configuration is tricky.Â* I have no issues with 4x8GB on "workstation" class intel motherboards. Thanks for this. This sounds practical. I shall try them, as you say. Please explain "9-9-9-24"; and tell me how to set the speed. Ed 9-9-9-24 tCAS tRCD tRP tRC In roughly the same order as your DRAM customization screen. The numbers are counts of "cycles". At 1600MHz, the inverse is 0.6ns. 9 cycles at 0.6ns is 5.4ns. Internally, all the RAM understands is nanoseconds. "Did you meet my 5.4ns minimum ???" it asks. If the RAM is set to DDR1333, the inverse of that is 0.75ns. To make a number close to 5.4ns, we need about 7.2 cycles. Rounding up, 8 cycles would work, without causing a smaller number than the 5.4ns minimum. 9-9-9-24 DDR3-1600 or 8-8-8-X DDR3-1333 The timing table you can see in CPUZ shows example timings that are recorded in the SPD for this. Other values can be done by the BIOS code by interpolation and so on. Â*Â*Â* Paul Here are the SPD tabs of CPU-Z for the two working modules. Any comments? https://www.dropbox.com/s/1d8v4h5mji...ts2-4.png?dl=0 Ed Assuming those two samples are DIMMs from different sets, they're very close to one another at the top setting. You could start by using the frequency setting, and let the BIOS do the math on the individual timings. ******* Â*Â*Â* AI Overclock Tuner [Manual] Â*Â*Â* Memory FrequencyÂ*Â* [DDR3-1600]Â* === Start with 1600, switch to 1333 if Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* there is trouble, let the BIOS do the Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* math for the rest. Â*Â*Â* DRAM Timing ControlÂ*Â* [example at 1600] Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* tCASÂ*Â* Auto (11) Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* tRCDÂ*Â* Auto (11) Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* tRPÂ*Â*Â* Auto (11) Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* tRCÂ*Â*Â* Auto (41) Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* DRAM Command RateÂ* 2TÂ*Â*Â*Â* === definitely want 2T Â*Â*Â* DRAM VoltageÂ* [1.50V]Â*Â*Â*Â* === You should be able to use between Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* 1.5 and 1.65V without issue. Â*Â*Â* NB VoltageÂ*Â*Â* [Auto]Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* === Leave this for now If that doesn't work:Â* 11-12-11-41 Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* tRCDÂ*Â* 12 Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* DRAM Voltage [1.65V] If that doesn't work Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* tCASÂ*Â* 12 Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* tRCDÂ*Â* 12 Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* tRPÂ*Â*Â* 12 Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* tRCÂ*Â*Â* Auto === let BIOS work it out Sometimes, the error rate and whether the errors are exactly reproducible on each run, hints at whether the RAM chips have an issue, or the bus timing is flaky, or the Vnb needs to be adjusted up a notch or two. The Vnb regulators now have fairly tiny step sizes and are capable of fine adjustment. ******* While your board has an "auto overclock" kind of feature, I don't like the voltages or extreme settings those tend to use. Yes, if you jam the controls to max, you can practically guarantee an overclock, and the methods they use on these boards aren't exactly "subtle". Still, if you read an article somewhere that says the method used is good, I won't argue with that. I try to sneak up on the settings if I can, and prefer to not apply extreme voltages if I can avoid it. My previous set of "hot DIMMs" had a problem, so I'm trying to not make any more "hot DIMMs" on purpose by using extreme settings. When the RAM on the machine started throwing errors a couple of sets of RAM ago, I used Vnb as the only setting, to fix it. Nothing else needed to be adjusted. I could do this though, because I was working on a theory that the Northbridge was aging. I knew the settings I'd used for everything else, were fine at the time of the build. Normally, the board will be selecting Command Rate 2T on its own, whether because the DIMM clock is rather high, or because the bus is loaded (four DIMMs). There's hardly a chance to realistically use 1T (maybe a single set of single sided 4GB DIMMs). Maybe you'll have more joy at 1333, with a full set. Some older AMD setups used to work that way, DDR400 with two DIMMs, DDR333 with four DIMMs. HTH, Â*Â*Â*Â* Paul This looks brilliant to me, Paul, and I thank you heartily. It scares me a bit, though. I've never done memory-module clocking and setting before; and when I went into the BIOS of this new machine it presented me with a screen that looked like something from a flight-deck. UEFI; so I clicked on "exit advanced" and it exited into booting. I have some learning to do here, including the pages from the mobo manual that Andy has shown me. I'll get round to it. Ed There are sufficient "Autos" in there, you can work it a bit at a time. For example, if you're timid, you can just dial the DDR3-1600 setting to DDR3-1333 and see if that's enough to get it working. Then you don't have to look at all those pesky Tthis and Tthat ones. And memtest86+ can give you a good idea how close you're getting, or whether the situation is "hopeless". On my floppy-less computer, I use a USB floppy drive for "tradition" and load the memtest86+ floppy that way. (This would be with *no* Windows hard drives connected, for safety from corruption.) For example, my old Asrock motherboard, the documentation (even the VIA website that made the chipset) said only 1GB DIMMs worked. Well, I plugged in a 2GB DIMM and it was fully recognized. But, what was the problem ? It was throwing errors. Since the BIOS designers believed the documentation they were given, they never "tuned" operation of the board for a 2GB stick. There's a certain parameter that needs tuning in a lab, and it would require me to do 256 test cases to "nail" the timing (by trial and error). Well, that simply wasn't going to happen. I don't have the stamina for that. Your situation isn't nearly as bad, as the hardware is mostly dialed in, and it could take as little as one parameter change to tip it upright. Relaxing a single timing, or adjusting the voltage within safe limits, could be enough to make a difference. I've spent as long as a week working on this stuff, but I don't do that any more. Minimal change, test for stability, and move on... :-) It's one of the reasons I really like XMP. It does everything for you, but only with two sticks. It's a bit too hard for the manufacturer to test and guarantee that four sticks will work in XMP setup mode, and the table in the DIMM may not have the info needed. XMP is a section of the SPD table, that was not designed by JEDEC. Some "computer people" dreamed it up. If only the process was rigorous enough to standardize... Â*Â*Â* Paul You're a delight to correspond with, Paul. You have something that I think Ernest Shackleton must have had; perseverance and gumption way beyond the average. My father was namedÂ* "Ernest" after him, and if I'm ever trapped in Antarctica Id like to have him with me. Do you know his story? You might be interested in this communication from the forum of the manufacturers. I don't want him in the Antarctic with me; a quitter he seems to be. ******************* "I take it you only have those 2 slots populated because if you try to populate the other 2 slots the system doesn't load Windows as you were saying. If you remove the pair you know to work fine and put the new pair of 8gb sticks into those slots, do they work as a pair on their own? Since we shouldn't discount out of hand the chance that the new kit is faulty. If they're not faulty, and the system loads Windows , what does the SPD tab say for those? You could also try only 1 of your 4 sticks at a time and leave the PC running Memtest overnight for each to see whether any 1 of the 4 sticks is faulty. https://www.memtest86.com/ In the meantime, going by what you've already posted: The RAM you've installed is a different frequency and has different timings to each other: -Always install DIMMs with the same CAS latency. For optimal compatibility, we recommend that you install memory modules of the same version or date code (D/C) from the same vendor. Check with the retailer toget the correct memory modules. This is in the manual as you say and also on the QVL: http://dlcdnet.asus.com/pub/ASUS/mb/...748.1522537474 The QVL is the list of RAM that's guaranteed compatible with the mobo. Lots of others will also work too, but if you mix and match RAM of different timings and frequencies that aren't on the QVL and then it doesn't work, it's unfortunately not entirely surprising. It's actually not at all unheard of for apparently identical RAM (same model names, same frequencies, same latencies - but often different manufacture dates) to not be compatible if they are not purchased as a matched kit. They can be made with different dies, or something. If the system lets you into the BIOS with all 4 sticks in you could try lowering the frequency and loosening the timings to the lowest values they have in common and see if that helps. That's more effort than I'd be bothered with though. Another question is whether you need 32gb RAM? This is an extremely old set of CPUs and motherboard and most tasks would be badly bottlenecked by other parts of the system e.g. the CPU long before RAM usage was an issue. e.g. gaming, video editing. Probably even something like VMs. Your best option may be to return your two most recently purchased sticks and stick to 16gb." ***************** All the best, Ed P.S. That guy's estimate of how long a memtest would take is way off. I ran it with two sticks in, and it took not much longer than 40 mins. for the full two passes on the 16GB. I got it working with all 4 sticks, 32GB. But only by tweaking it down to 1066MHz. It seems ok, though. That's subjective, not an objective test. It seems just as fast to me. Thanks to you and Andy for guiding me into new territory, and sticking by me. Your student's doing well; and I put that down to good teaching from both of you. I'm wondering if doing a trial of tweaking it up to 1333MHz will be worth while. You never know; perhaps after settling down with all four sticks, it might take it. Ed |
#20
|
|||
|
|||
RAM on ASUS mobo
Ed Cryer wrote:
I got it working with all 4 sticks, 32GB. But only by tweaking it down to 1066MHz. It seems ok, though. That's subjective, not an objective test. It seems just as fast to me. If you're not actively running many task, or processing huge files, then the processor caching will 'cover' for slower memory to a certain extent. I'm wondering if doing a trial of tweaking it up to 1333MHz will be worth while. I'd leave it as known working for a few days, until you're sure it's running reliably, maybe leave memtest86+ or prime95 running overnight, but then you've nothing to lose by trying 1333 ... |
#21
|
|||
|
|||
RAM on ASUS mobo
Ed Cryer wrote:
Ed Cryer wrote: Paul wrote: Ed Cryer wrote: Paul wrote: Ed Cryer wrote: Paul wrote: Ed Cryer wrote: Andy Burns wrote: Ed Cryer wrote: The four are all the same; all 1600MHz, DDR3, 8GB. Well, theoretically they are fine for that MB. https://www.corsair.com/uk/en/Categories/Products/Memory/Mainstream-Memory/Corsair-Memory-%E2%80%94-8GB-DDR3-Memory/p/CMV8GX3M1A1600C11 Try a pair of the new ones in the blue slots at the tested speed of 1333MHz 9-9-9-24 if that works then all four at that speed. if that works, try two and finally all four of them at the XMS speed of 1600MHz 11-11-11-30 I've not used an AMD CPU for years, so I'll take Paul's word for it that a quad SIMM configuration is tricky. I have no issues with 4x8GB on "workstation" class intel motherboards. Thanks for this. This sounds practical. I shall try them, as you say. Please explain "9-9-9-24"; and tell me how to set the speed. Ed 9-9-9-24 tCAS tRCD tRP tRC In roughly the same order as your DRAM customization screen. The numbers are counts of "cycles". At 1600MHz, the inverse is 0.6ns. 9 cycles at 0.6ns is 5.4ns. Internally, all the RAM understands is nanoseconds. "Did you meet my 5.4ns minimum ???" it asks. If the RAM is set to DDR1333, the inverse of that is 0.75ns. To make a number close to 5.4ns, we need about 7.2 cycles. Rounding up, 8 cycles would work, without causing a smaller number than the 5.4ns minimum. 9-9-9-24 DDR3-1600 or 8-8-8-X DDR3-1333 The timing table you can see in CPUZ shows example timings that are recorded in the SPD for this. Other values can be done by the BIOS code by interpolation and so on. Paul Here are the SPD tabs of CPU-Z for the two working modules. Any comments? https://www.dropbox.com/s/1d8v4h5mji...ts2-4.png?dl=0 Ed Assuming those two samples are DIMMs from different sets, they're very close to one another at the top setting. You could start by using the frequency setting, and let the BIOS do the math on the individual timings. ******* AI Overclock Tuner [Manual] Memory Frequency [DDR3-1600] === Start with 1600, switch to 1333 if there is trouble, let the BIOS do the math for the rest. DRAM Timing Control [example at 1600] tCAS Auto (11) tRCD Auto (11) tRP Auto (11) tRC Auto (41) DRAM Command Rate 2T === definitely want 2T DRAM Voltage [1.50V] === You should be able to use between 1.5 and 1.65V without issue. NB Voltage [Auto] === Leave this for now If that doesn't work: 11-12-11-41 tRCD 12 DRAM Voltage [1.65V] If that doesn't work tCAS 12 tRCD 12 tRP 12 tRC Auto === let BIOS work it out Sometimes, the error rate and whether the errors are exactly reproducible on each run, hints at whether the RAM chips have an issue, or the bus timing is flaky, or the Vnb needs to be adjusted up a notch or two. The Vnb regulators now have fairly tiny step sizes and are capable of fine adjustment. ******* While your board has an "auto overclock" kind of feature, I don't like the voltages or extreme settings those tend to use. Yes, if you jam the controls to max, you can practically guarantee an overclock, and the methods they use on these boards aren't exactly "subtle". Still, if you read an article somewhere that says the method used is good, I won't argue with that. I try to sneak up on the settings if I can, and prefer to not apply extreme voltages if I can avoid it. My previous set of "hot DIMMs" had a problem, so I'm trying to not make any more "hot DIMMs" on purpose by using extreme settings. When the RAM on the machine started throwing errors a couple of sets of RAM ago, I used Vnb as the only setting, to fix it. Nothing else needed to be adjusted. I could do this though, because I was working on a theory that the Northbridge was aging. I knew the settings I'd used for everything else, were fine at the time of the build. Normally, the board will be selecting Command Rate 2T on its own, whether because the DIMM clock is rather high, or because the bus is loaded (four DIMMs). There's hardly a chance to realistically use 1T (maybe a single set of single sided 4GB DIMMs). Maybe you'll have more joy at 1333, with a full set. Some older AMD setups used to work that way, DDR400 with two DIMMs, DDR333 with four DIMMs. HTH, Paul This looks brilliant to me, Paul, and I thank you heartily. It scares me a bit, though. I've never done memory-module clocking and setting before; and when I went into the BIOS of this new machine it presented me with a screen that looked like something from a flight-deck. UEFI; so I clicked on "exit advanced" and it exited into booting. I have some learning to do here, including the pages from the mobo manual that Andy has shown me. I'll get round to it. Ed There are sufficient "Autos" in there, you can work it a bit at a time. For example, if you're timid, you can just dial the DDR3-1600 setting to DDR3-1333 and see if that's enough to get it working. Then you don't have to look at all those pesky Tthis and Tthat ones. And memtest86+ can give you a good idea how close you're getting, or whether the situation is "hopeless". On my floppy-less computer, I use a USB floppy drive for "tradition" and load the memtest86+ floppy that way. (This would be with *no* Windows hard drives connected, for safety from corruption.) For example, my old Asrock motherboard, the documentation (even the VIA website that made the chipset) said only 1GB DIMMs worked. Well, I plugged in a 2GB DIMM and it was fully recognized. But, what was the problem ? It was throwing errors. Since the BIOS designers believed the documentation they were given, they never "tuned" operation of the board for a 2GB stick. There's a certain parameter that needs tuning in a lab, and it would require me to do 256 test cases to "nail" the timing (by trial and error). Well, that simply wasn't going to happen. I don't have the stamina for that. Your situation isn't nearly as bad, as the hardware is mostly dialed in, and it could take as little as one parameter change to tip it upright. Relaxing a single timing, or adjusting the voltage within safe limits, could be enough to make a difference. I've spent as long as a week working on this stuff, but I don't do that any more. Minimal change, test for stability, and move on... :-) It's one of the reasons I really like XMP. It does everything for you, but only with two sticks. It's a bit too hard for the manufacturer to test and guarantee that four sticks will work in XMP setup mode, and the table in the DIMM may not have the info needed. XMP is a section of the SPD table, that was not designed by JEDEC. Some "computer people" dreamed it up. If only the process was rigorous enough to standardize... Paul You're a delight to correspond with, Paul. You have something that I think Ernest Shackleton must have had; perseverance and gumption way beyond the average. My father was named "Ernest" after him, and if I'm ever trapped in Antarctica Id like to have him with me. Do you know his story? You might be interested in this communication from the forum of the manufacturers. I don't want him in the Antarctic with me; a quitter he seems to be. ******************* "I take it you only have those 2 slots populated because if you try to populate the other 2 slots the system doesn't load Windows as you were saying. If you remove the pair you know to work fine and put the new pair of 8gb sticks into those slots, do they work as a pair on their own? Since we shouldn't discount out of hand the chance that the new kit is faulty. If they're not faulty, and the system loads Windows , what does the SPD tab say for those? You could also try only 1 of your 4 sticks at a time and leave the PC running Memtest overnight for each to see whether any 1 of the 4 sticks is faulty. https://www.memtest86.com/ In the meantime, going by what you've already posted: The RAM you've installed is a different frequency and has different timings to each other: -Always install DIMMs with the same CAS latency. For optimal compatibility, we recommend that you install memory modules of the same version or date code (D/C) from the same vendor. Check with the retailer toget the correct memory modules. This is in the manual as you say and also on the QVL: http://dlcdnet.asus.com/pub/ASUS/mb/...748.1522537474 The QVL is the list of RAM that's guaranteed compatible with the mobo. Lots of others will also work too, but if you mix and match RAM of different timings and frequencies that aren't on the QVL and then it doesn't work, it's unfortunately not entirely surprising. It's actually not at all unheard of for apparently identical RAM (same model names, same frequencies, same latencies - but often different manufacture dates) to not be compatible if they are not purchased as a matched kit. They can be made with different dies, or something. If the system lets you into the BIOS with all 4 sticks in you could try lowering the frequency and loosening the timings to the lowest values they have in common and see if that helps. That's more effort than I'd be bothered with though. Another question is whether you need 32gb RAM? This is an extremely old set of CPUs and motherboard and most tasks would be badly bottlenecked by other parts of the system e.g. the CPU long before RAM usage was an issue. e.g. gaming, video editing. Probably even something like VMs. Your best option may be to return your two most recently purchased sticks and stick to 16gb." ***************** All the best, Ed P.S. That guy's estimate of how long a memtest would take is way off. I ran it with two sticks in, and it took not much longer than 40 mins. for the full two passes on the 16GB. I got it working with all 4 sticks, 32GB. But only by tweaking it down to 1066MHz. It seems ok, though. That's subjective, not an objective test. It seems just as fast to me. Thanks to you and Andy for guiding me into new territory, and sticking by me. Your student's doing well; and I put that down to good teaching from both of you. I'm wondering if doing a trial of tweaking it up to 1333MHz will be worth while. You never know; perhaps after settling down with all four sticks, it might take it. Ed Well, it's purely a time trade-off. How much time do you want to put into it ? I used to "shoot for the value on the tin", just to get my moneys worth. The test time on my newest system is around 2 hours when fully loaded, and I'd have to resort to testing with just Test #5 while doing initial tuning. If you've never tried these things before, I think it's worthwhile to have a play with it, just to see what you can achieve. Since I have two computers in the room here, I could take the second "offline" for some of this kind of fun. But then I'd need to keep a notepad and pen handy to write down what I'd tried and so on. When you are finished your tuning and everything is stable, on some motherboards you can "store" a profile at the BIOS level. For example, my new machine, I have two profiles stored. One is a profile for "half-filled with sticks", which is the old profile. And when I added the new sticks, I have a "full of DIMMs" profile. If the computer crashes or the power goes off at some unfortunate moment, I have to go into the BIOS and "re-load" the profile, to get all the custom settings back. The machine I'm typing on, doesn't have profiles, so if it becomes "forgetful" (CMOS battery dead, power cord unplugged), then I'd better have my notepad or digital camera pictures of the screen to use as a reference :-) The "profile" idea on newer motherboards, is great for eliminating the drudgery of putting back settings after some CMOS screwup. Since the motherboard also has "Load Setup Defaults", you can also accidentally blow out the custom setting, just by being careless in the BIOS exit screen. When the BIOS has a "profile" capability for re-loading, hitting that by accident is no longer a problem. Paul |
|
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | Rate This Thread |
|
|