Folded phone line can mess up DSL.

The networking ng is dormant so I thought I'd report this here.

Folded phone line can mess up DSL.


I think a couple years ago when I had 100 feet of phone line but was
only using 40 feet, but wanted to save the whole 100' in one piec, I had
40 feet played out and 60 feet rolled on the spool, and I asked here or
somewhere else if that could cause a slow DSL connection. And iirc the
answer was no, but I'm not sure of that.

So a couple months ago I finally finish installing my home burglar alarm
and I want to connect it to the monitoring company via the phone line.
Since my main phone connection goes in via the second floor, to the
computer on the 2nd floor, I go to the NIC and put a Y connector in it,
adding back the original wire to the basement. Somewhere I have a 6"
piece of phone wire with modular plugs on the end, but I can't find it,
so I put in one of the cords that comes with most phone devices, maybe 8
feet folded up, maybe 6 circle's-worth, squeezed flat.

This is some time between Thursday and Saturday, and Sunday morning I
leave for two months.

I got back two weeks ago today and the house and car were just the way I
left them, and the computer worked fine. For 3 or 4 days. Then it
stopped loading webpages, except very intermittently (so little as to be
unusable), loaded email and newsgrooups only 20% or 30% of the time.
People told me to call Verizon, as if I hadn't thought of that. But
they charge about $60 if it's not their fault, and anyhow, the point is
to figure it out on my own.

Check the NIC. It's popped open. It's under a roof but maybe it got
wet. Doesn't look wet. After a couple days with no better ideas, I
decide to unplug things in the NIC to give them a chance to dry, and
only then I notice the folded phone cord (with the Y-connector). Take
it out, and everything works fine again.

But how come it worked fine for the first 3 or 4 days I was back? And
at least 12 hours, maybe 2 days, before I left?

In article ,
says...
I go to the NIC and put a Y connector in it,

Are there DSL isolators in line where they should be? I
couldn't tell from your post.

Micky,
I am not going to answer your question as to why. Don't know.
However, with you alarm system connection you need to place
the alarm dialer as the first thing on your phone line from the NIC.
This is done with a RJ31X block properly installed.
Also, depending on your specific use of DSL Filters the line
to the alarm dialer needs to be a DSL Filtered line. Otherwise
the communication can be compromised. Twisted pair cable is most desirable.

Good luck.

Les


On 5/11/2018 8:34 PM, micky wrote:
The networking ng is dormant so I thought I'd report this here.

Folded phone line can mess up DSL.


I think a couple years ago when I had 100 feet of phone line but was
only using 40 feet, but wanted to save the whole 100' in one piec, I had
40 feet played out and 60 feet rolled on the spool, and I asked here or
somewhere else if that could cause a slow DSL connection. And iirc the
answer was no, but I'm not sure of that.

So a couple months ago I finally finish installing my home burglar alarm
and I want to connect it to the monitoring company via the phone line.
Since my main phone connection goes in via the second floor, to the
computer on the 2nd floor, I go to the NIC and put a Y connector in it,
adding back the original wire to the basement. Somewhere I have a 6"
piece of phone wire with modular plugs on the end, but I can't find it,
so I put in one of the cords that comes with most phone devices, maybe 8
feet folded up, maybe 6 circle's-worth, squeezed flat.

This is some time between Thursday and Saturday, and Sunday morning I
leave for two months.

I got back two weeks ago today and the house and car were just the way I
left them, and the computer worked fine. For 3 or 4 days. Then it
stopped loading webpages, except very intermittently (so little as to be
unusable), loaded email and newsgrooups only 20% or 30% of the time.
People told me to call Verizon, as if I hadn't thought of that. But
they charge about $60 if it's not their fault, and anyhow, the point is
to figure it out on my own.

Check the NIC. It's popped open. It's under a roof but maybe it got
wet. Doesn't look wet. After a couple days with no better ideas, I
decide to unplug things in the NIC to give them a chance to dry, and
only then I notice the folded phone cord (with the Y-connector). Take
it out, and everything works fine again.

But how come it worked fine for the first 3 or 4 days I was back? And
at least 12 hours, maybe 2 days, before I left?

On Fri, 11 May 2018 20:34:49 -0400, micky
wrote:

The networking ng is dormant so I thought I'd report this here.

Folded phone line can mess up DSL.


I think a couple years ago when I had 100 feet of phone line but was
only using 40 feet, but wanted to save the whole 100' in one piec, I had
40 feet played out and 60 feet rolled on the spool, and I asked here or
somewhere else if that could cause a slow DSL connection. And iirc the
answer was no, but I'm not sure of that.

So a couple months ago I finally finish installing my home burglar alarm
and I want to connect it to the monitoring company via the phone line.
Since my main phone connection goes in via the second floor, to the
computer on the 2nd floor, I go to the NIC and put a Y connector in it,
adding back the original wire to the basement. Somewhere I have a 6"
piece of phone wire with modular plugs on the end, but I can't find it,
so I put in one of the cords that comes with most phone devices, maybe 8
feet folded up, maybe 6 circle's-worth, squeezed flat.

This is some time between Thursday and Saturday, and Sunday morning I
leave for two months.

I got back two weeks ago today and the house and car were just the way I
left them, and the computer worked fine. For 3 or 4 days. Then it
stopped loading webpages, except very intermittently (so little as to be
unusable), loaded email and newsgrooups only 20% or 30% of the time.
People told me to call Verizon, as if I hadn't thought of that. But
they charge about $60 if it's not their fault, and anyhow, the point is
to figure it out on my own.

Check the NIC. It's popped open. It's under a roof but maybe it got
wet. Doesn't look wet. After a couple days with no better ideas, I
decide to unplug things in the NIC to give them a chance to dry, and
only then I notice the folded phone cord (with the Y-connector). Take
it out, and everything works fine again.

But how come it worked fine for the first 3 or 4 days I was back? And
at least 12 hours, maybe 2 days, before I left?

On similar lines I was using a network cable that was way
longer than needed and the excess was coiled up.
At 1 gigabit packet loss was around 50%.
I replaced it with a much shorter cable and no packet loss.

On Fri, 11 May 2018 21:46:29 -0400, ABLE1
wrote:

Micky,
I am not going to answer your question as to why. Don't know.
However, with you alarm system connection you need to place
the alarm dialer as the first thing on your phone line from the NIC.
This is done with a RJ31X block properly installed.
Also, depending on your specific use of DSL Filters the line
to the alarm dialer needs to be a DSL Filtered line. Otherwise
the communication can be compromised. Twisted pair cable is most desirable.

Good luck.

Les

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usenet_quoting

On 5/11/2018 8:34 PM, micky wrote:
The networking ng is dormant so I thought I'd report this here.

Folded phone line can mess up DSL.


I think a couple years ago when I had 100 feet of phone line but was
only using 40 feet, but wanted to save the whole 100' in one piec, I had
40 feet played out and 60 feet rolled on the spool, and I asked here or
somewhere else if that could cause a slow DSL connection. And iirc the
answer was no, but I'm not sure of that.

So a couple months ago I finally finish installing my home burglar alarm
and I want to connect it to the monitoring company via the phone line.
Since my main phone connection goes in via the second floor, to the
computer on the 2nd floor, I go to the NIC and put a Y connector in it,
adding back the original wire to the basement. Somewhere I have a 6"
piece of phone wire with modular plugs on the end, but I can't find it,
so I put in one of the cords that comes with most phone devices, maybe 8
feet folded up, maybe 6 circle's-worth, squeezed flat.

This is some time between Thursday and Saturday, and Sunday morning I
leave for two months.

I got back two weeks ago today and the house and car were just the way I
left them, and the computer worked fine. For 3 or 4 days. Then it
stopped loading webpages, except very intermittently (so little as to be
unusable), loaded email and newsgrooups only 20% or 30% of the time.
People told me to call Verizon, as if I hadn't thought of that. But
they charge about $60 if it's not their fault, and anyhow, the point is
to figure it out on my own.

Check the NIC. It's popped open. It's under a roof but maybe it got
wet. Doesn't look wet. After a couple days with no better ideas, I
decide to unplug things in the NIC to give them a chance to dry, and
only then I notice the folded phone cord (with the Y-connector). Take
it out, and everything works fine again.

But how come it worked fine for the first 3 or 4 days I was back? And
at least 12 hours, maybe 2 days, before I left?

Lucifer Morningstar wrote in
:


On similar lines I was using a network cable that was way
longer than needed and the excess was coiled up.
At 1 gigabit packet loss was around 50%.
I replaced it with a much shorter cable and no packet loss.

That one is easy. Gigabit eathernet is very sensitive to interference.
Having the wires coiled like that very likely degraded the line electrical
characteristics to the point that you were getting a lot of lost/error
packets. CAT5/CAT6 is very sensitive to proper conditions for transmission
and reception. It doesn't take much to degrade a packet to the point that
it is not decipherable at the other end.

ABLE1 wrote:
Micky,
I am not going to answer your question as to why. Don't know.
However, with you alarm system connection you need to place
the alarm dialer as the first thing on your phone line from the NIC.
This is done with a RJ31X block properly installed.
Also, depending on your specific use of DSL Filters the line
to the alarm dialer needs to be a DSL Filtered line. Otherwise
the communication can be compromised. Twisted pair cable is most
desirable.

Good luck.

Les

Where I live, they have two practices for ADSL.

The ADSL original setup, they handed out filters
per phone jack in the house. So they would put
four filters in their "kit", as back then the
modem was a rental. This was back in the days
of "no truck roll" installs.

When ADSL2 rolled out, they started using a
tiny whole-house filter, installed at the demarc.
What's supposed to happen in that case, is the
"existing" house phone wiring, is put on the
filtered port. (And the alarm dialer could go
on that network of wires.) Whereas the customer can
run a cable to the ADSL (unfiltered) port on the
filter, to make the ADSL2 modem work properly.
The filter box was pretty small, and only
2x3 inches or so.

Paul

In article XnsA8E053B695DAtimothybilyahoocom@
69.16.179.28, says...
Having the wires coiled like that very likely degraded the line electrical
characteristics to the point that you were getting a lot of lost/error
packets.


Why? Twisted pairs are resistant to interference.

On 5/12/2018 8:22 PM, Jason wrote:
In article XnsA8E053B695DAtimothybilyahoocom@
69.16.179.28, says...
Having the wires coiled like that very likely degraded the line electrical
characteristics to the point that you were getting a lot of lost/error
packets.


Why? Twisted pairs are resistant to interference.

Absolutely, the twisted repairs counteract interference, and each pair
is twisted at a slightly different rate to reduce crosstalk between the
pairs. Here's a simple summary.

https://www.quora.com/How-does-twist...ween-the-wires

On 13/05/18 14:34, Mike S wrote:
On 5/12/2018 8:22 PM, Jason wrote:
In article XnsA8E053B695DAtimothybilyahoocom@
69.16.179.28, says...
Having the wires coiled like that very likely degraded the line
electrical
characteristics to the point that you were getting a lot of lost/error
packets.


Why? Twisted pairs are resistant to interference.

Absolutely, the twisted repairs counteract interference, and each pair
is twisted at a slightly different rate to reduce crosstalk between the
pairs. Here's a simple summary.

https://www.quora.com/How-does-twist...ween-the-wires

Yes, but coiling the cable means that pairs (with twist pitch X)
interfere with other turns of themselves (still with pitch X),
so coiling the cable can increase scattering.

In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Fri, 11 May 2018 21:46:29 -0400, ABLE1
wrote:

Micky,
I am not going to answer your question as to why. Don't know.

Yes, a hard question. (I didn't count packets like another post
suggests)

However, with you alarm system connection you need to place
the alarm dialer as the first thing on your phone line from the NIC.

This is a whole story in itself.

This is done with a RJ31X block properly installed.
Also, depending on your specific use of DSL Filters the line
to the alarm dialer needs to be a DSL Filtered line. Otherwise
the communication can be compromised. Twisted pair cable is most desirable.

My friend owns the burglar alarm company I'm dealing with and he's been
very patient with me. As he is with almost everyone.

He knew that before I met him, I installed my own wired alarm, without
monitoring, 35 years ago and it worked every work day for 15 years until
one day a little wisp of smoke was coming out of the keypad/controlboard
at the front door. I had it grounded to a 6-foot copper rod nailed
into the ground, so the ground was probably good, but stiill it burned
out.

Didn't do anything for 9 years until planning long trip. He gave me a
new model control box and I almost got it installed. He even came over
and worked on the last switch before he took me to the airport, but we
didn't get it working.

10 years later, last year, I try again and fail for lack of time. But
this year before another long trip, I start a month in advance and I
finish on Thursday or Friday, plane leaves Sunday morning.

Separately, the home phone stops working 20 years ago, a short in the
wiring. I had put in several extensions but it has that stupid pinch
connector in the basement and it's hard to disconnect them for testing.
Or I was depressed, or a combination. I decide it's better if the
phone line goes straight to the computer on the second floor, and from
there to my new cordless phone base station, next to the computer. So
I stop trying to get the basement to work and just run the wire up the
front of the house, in the window, and to the next bedroom. (Later I
drill a hole in the floor of the overhanging 2nd floor bedroom and run
the wire through that.)

Everything is good for years but now there is no phone line in the
basement, just a cordless extension. THAT IS WHY I PUT IN THE
Y-CONNECTOR, to try to have phone lines in the basement too.

My friend explained that I should run 4 wires to the phone, so the alarm
would interrupt all the other phone service (for two good reasons), but
he didn't insist on it. And the two reasons don't apply to me too
much. ( 1) I never set the alarm when I'm home anyhow, and 2) I could
be wrong but in my lower middle class n'hood, I don't think the burglars
are smart enough to start dialing before the alarm dials. (For the long
trip, I hid the cordless phone in the kitchen, the only one on the first
floor.))

When I coudlnt' get the phone line in the basement to work at all, I ran
heavy duty speaker wire up two flights of stairs to the phone line by my
computer. I sort of hated that, but I'm getting used to it.

It works for now. My friend thought the 35 year old switches might
cause false alarms, but I was gone for 2 months and no false alarms.
However on the plane back, it dawned on me that I couldn't remember the
code and I coudlnt' remember the password. After 10 minutes I
remembered the password and after 30 I remembered the code, but got it
wrong! I thought it was 1357 and it was really 3579. So when I came
in the house, after 30 seconds the sirens went off. I ran to the
basement to take out the fuses leading to the sirens, and when I got
upstairs the monitoring company called, and I did have the right
password. They said there'd been no prior, false alarms, but it did
work that day.

I still couldn't disarm the alarm and I was sort of trapped in the house
for a day, but I found an email I'd sent a friend with the code in it.


I'm probably going to get FIOS and the installer will probably insist on
connecting the wiring to the basement, and if he doesn't I will insist
on it.


Good luck.

Thanks. I'll need it.

Les


On 5/11/2018 8:34 PM, micky wrote:
The networking ng is dormant so I thought I'd report this here.

Folded phone line can mess up DSL.


I think a couple years ago when I had 100 feet of phone line but was
only using 40 feet, but wanted to save the whole 100' in one piec, I had
40 feet played out and 60 feet rolled on the spool, and I asked here or
somewhere else if that could cause a slow DSL connection. And iirc the
answer was no, but I'm not sure of that.

So a couple months ago I finally finish installing my home burglar alarm
and I want to connect it to the monitoring company via the phone line.
Since my main phone connection goes in via the second floor, to the
computer on the 2nd floor, I go to the NIC and put a Y connector in it,
adding back the original wire to the basement. Somewhere I have a 6"
piece of phone wire with modular plugs on the end, but I can't find it,
so I put in one of the cords that comes with most phone devices, maybe 8
feet folded up, maybe 6 circle's-worth, squeezed flat.

This is some time between Thursday and Saturday, and Sunday morning I
leave for two months.

I got back two weeks ago today and the house and car were just the way I
left them, and the computer worked fine. For 3 or 4 days. Then it
stopped loading webpages, except very intermittently (so little as to be
unusable), loaded email and newsgrooups only 20% or 30% of the time.
People told me to call Verizon, as if I hadn't thought of that. But
they charge about $60 if it's not their fault, and anyhow, the point is
to figure it out on my own.

Check the NIC. It's popped open. It's under a roof but maybe it got
wet. Doesn't look wet. After a couple days with no better ideas, I
decide to unplug things in the NIC to give them a chance to dry, and
only then I notice the folded phone cord (with the Y-connector). Take
it out, and everything works fine again.

But how come it worked fine for the first 3 or 4 days I was back? And
at least 12 hours, maybe 2 days, before I left?

In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Sat, 12 May 2018 12:50:56 +1000, Lucifer
Morningstar wrote:

On Fri, 11 May 2018 20:34:49 -0400, micky
wrote:

The networking ng is dormant so I thought I'd report this here.

Folded phone line can mess up DSL.


I think a couple years ago when I had 100 feet of phone line but was
only using 40 feet, but wanted to save the whole 100' in one piec, I had
40 feet played out and 60 feet rolled on the spool, and I asked here or
somewhere else if that could cause a slow DSL connection. And iirc the
answer was no, but I'm not sure of that.

So a couple months ago I finally finish installing my home burglar alarm
and I want to connect it to the monitoring company via the phone line.
Since my main phone connection goes in via the second floor, to the
computer on the 2nd floor, I go to the NIC and put a Y connector in it,
adding back the original wire to the basement. Somewhere I have a 6"
piece of phone wire with modular plugs on the end, but I can't find it,
so I put in one of the cords that comes with most phone devices, maybe 8
feet folded up, maybe 6 circle's-worth, squeezed flat.

This is some time between Thursday and Saturday, and Sunday morning I
leave for two months.

I got back two weeks ago today and the house and car were just the way I
left them, and the computer worked fine. For 3 or 4 days. Then it
stopped loading webpages, except very intermittently (so little as to be
unusable), loaded email and newsgrooups only 20% or 30% of the time.
People told me to call Verizon, as if I hadn't thought of that. But
they charge about $60 if it's not their fault, and anyhow, the point is
to figure it out on my own.

Check the NIC. It's popped open. It's under a roof but maybe it got
wet. Doesn't look wet. After a couple days with no better ideas, I
decide to unplug things in the NIC to give them a chance to dry, and
only then I notice the folded phone cord (with the Y-connector). Take
it out, and everything works fine again.

But how come it worked fine for the first 3 or 4 days I was back? And
at least 12 hours, maybe 2 days, before I left?

On similar lines I was using a network cable that was way
longer than needed and the excess was coiled up.
At 1 gigabit packet loss was around 50%.
I replaced it with a much shorter cable and no packet loss.

Very interesting.

Besides acting as an antenna and picking up interference, I was thinking
something like your or my coiled wiring, this time or the previous time,
could act as a choke. But I'm just guessing.

Jason wrote in
:

In article XnsA8E053B695DAtimothybilyahoocom@
69.16.179.28, says...
Having the wires coiled like that very likely degraded the line
electrical characteristics to the point that you were getting a lot
of lost/error packets.


Why? Twisted pairs are resistant to interference.

Yes, twisted pairs are more resistant to interference, but the conductor
diameters, wire spacing, and insulation for CAT5 and CAT6 cables are very
carefully selected for among other things interconductor capacitance. For
the same reason that puting a CAT3 connector on a CAT5 cable limits the
cable to CAT3 specifications, having the cable being pinched at any spot
will change the electrical characteristics of the cable in a negative
manner, with a corresponding drop in performance.

In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Fri, 11 May 2018 21:41:40 -0400, Jason
wrote:

In article ,
says...
I go to the NIC and put a Y connector in it,

Are there DSL isolators in line where they should be? I
couldn't tell from your post.

No. And it worked fine after I took out the extra cable. That's the
point.

On 5/12/2018 9:52 PM, Clifford Heath wrote:
On 13/05/18 14:34, Mike S wrote:
On 5/12/2018 8:22 PM, Jason wrote:
In article XnsA8E053B695DAtimothybilyahoocom@
69.16.179.28, says...
Having the wires coiled like that very likely degraded the line
electrical
characteristics to the point that you were getting a lot of lost/error
packets.


Why? Twisted pairs are resistant to interference.

Absolutely, the twisted repairs counteract interference, and each pair
is twisted at a slightly different rate to reduce crosstalk between
the pairs. Here's a simple summary.

https://www.quora.com/How-does-twist...ween-the-wires


Yes, but coiling the cable means that pairs (with twist pitch X)
interfere with other turns of themselves (still with pitch X),
so coiling the cable can increase scattering.

Agreed, I used to install DSL and I never did that.