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RAM on ASUS mobo



 
 
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  #1  
Old May 14th 18, 06:56 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Ed Cryer
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,621
Default RAM on ASUS mobo

There are four RAM slots; two blue, two grey. It came with one 8GB
module in a blue slot. I added a second 8GB module in the other blue
slot; all ok, memory checked by Windows 10.
So, I got two new modules exactly the same as the second one, and put
them in the remaining slots. And cram!
I took those two out and booted ok. I put the first new one in one grey
slot, and still cram! Same with just the second one in that slot.

This from the Mobo User Manual;
Memory configurations
You may install 1GB, 2GB, 4GB, and 8GB unbuffered ECC, non-ECC DDR3
DIMMs into the
DIMM sockets.
• Memory module with memory frequency higher than 2133 MHz and its
corresponding
timing or the loaded DRAM OC Profile is not the JEDEC memory standard. The
stability and compatibility of these memory modules depend on the CPU’s
capabilities
and other installed devices.
• You may install varying memory sizes in Channel A and Channel B.
The system maps
the total size of the lower-sized channel for the dual-channel
configuration. Any excess
memory from the higher-sized channel is then mapped for single-channel
operation.
• We recommend that you install the memory modules from the blue
slots for better
overclocking capability.
• Always install DIMMs with the same CAS latency. For optimal
compatibility, we
recommend that you install memory modules of the same version or date
code (D/C)
from the same vendor. Check with the retailer to get the correct mem

Help, help, help!

Ed


Ads
  #2  
Old May 14th 18, 08:05 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Andy Burns[_6_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,318
Default RAM on ASUS mobo

Ed Cryer wrote:

Help, help, help!


part numbers of M/B and DIMMs?

  #3  
Old May 14th 18, 08:59 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
VanguardLH[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,881
Default RAM on ASUS mobo

Ed Cryer wrote:

There are four RAM slots; two blue, two grey. It came with one 8GB
module in a blue slot. I added a second 8GB module in the other blue
slot; all ok, memory checked by Windows 10.
So, I got two new modules exactly the same as the second one, and put
them in the remaining slots. And cram!
I took those two out and booted ok. I put the first new one in one grey
slot, and still cram! Same with just the second one in that slot.

This from the Mobo User Manual;
Memory configurations
You may install 1GB, 2GB, 4GB, and 8GB unbuffered ECC, non-ECC DDR3
DIMMs into the
DIMM sockets.
• Memory module with memory frequency higher than 2133 MHz and its
corresponding
timing or the loaded DRAM OC Profile is not the JEDEC memory standard. The
stability and compatibility of these memory modules depend on the CPU’s
capabilities
and other installed devices.
• You may install varying memory sizes in Channel A and Channel B.
The system maps
the total size of the lower-sized channel for the dual-channel
configuration. Any excess
memory from the higher-sized channel is then mapped for single-channel
operation.
• We recommend that you install the memory modules from the blue
slots for better
overclocking capability.
• Always install DIMMs with the same CAS latency. For optimal
compatibility, we
recommend that you install memory modules of the same version or date
code (D/C)
from the same vendor. Check with the retailer to get the correct mem

Help, help, help!

Ed


The BIOS reads the SPD (serial presence detect) of the memory modules to
get their timings. When there are mixed modules, the BIOS has to guess
which timings to use. The module with the fastest timings cannot be
used for the module with the slowest timings: you cannot run the module
faster than it is rated (unless you want to get into overclocking -- and
then hope a mismatched set of modules will reliably overclock the same).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_presence_detect

It is possible the BIOS is configured to use SPD from the memory modules
or that you or someone used manual settings in the BIOS. Unless you are
into overclocking (doesn't look like it), the BIOS should be configured
to use SPD to set the memory timings.

Within the same bank, the slowest module gets used. Typically the first
bank's timings get used for all banks. When you put the same type
modules in the other banks, could be they are slower than the original
module. The BIOS probably uses the timings from the first module in the
first bank. If it is faster than your new ones then its shorter timings
get used on the slower modules. The result is the timings used for the
newer but slower modules are too short/tight. You need to move the
original module into the 2nd bank and put the slowest modules in the
first bank. Then the BIOS will used the timings for the slower modules
in the first bank, even for the faster module in the 2nd bank.

There is also the problem in architecture differences. Blocking can be
different in different modules. It has been too long since I got into
this but I remember some unscrupulous sellers were selling low-speed
memory at higher capacity that used a different architecture. The
result was addressing was affected differently across the mismatched
modules. You also must not mix ECC with non-ECC memory. We have no
idea if the original module is dual- or quad-channel and what you got
for the new modules, or what your mobo supports since you never
identified it.

Although the manual says you can install varying sizes of memory
modules, addressing is the same across all banks. If you add a large
and small module, you get the capacity in the large module only what the
small module can deliver. You waste you money on the larger module(s).

We have no idea what mobo you have. "Asus mobo" doesn't specify the
model number. We have no idea of the brand and model for each of the 3
new memory modules you bought or the brand and model of the 1 original
memory module to know if those modules are compatible. You don't just
slap any memory into the slots for it to work.

Since you bought 3 that were the same, you need to buy 1 more that is
the same to replace the original one. You do not need to buy matched
sets of memory modules but all should not only all have the same timings
but also the same architecture. Easiest is to buy all modules of the
same brand and model.
  #4  
Old May 14th 18, 09:09 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Ed Cryer
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,621
Default RAM on ASUS mobo

VanguardLH wrote:
Ed Cryer wrote:

There are four RAM slots; two blue, two grey. It came with one 8GB
module in a blue slot. I added a second 8GB module in the other blue
slot; all ok, memory checked by Windows 10.
So, I got two new modules exactly the same as the second one, and put
them in the remaining slots. And cram!
I took those two out and booted ok. I put the first new one in one grey
slot, and still cram! Same with just the second one in that slot.

This from the Mobo User Manual;
Memory configurations
You may install 1GB, 2GB, 4GB, and 8GB unbuffered ECC, non-ECC DDR3
DIMMs into the
DIMM sockets.
• Memory module with memory frequency higher than 2133 MHz and its
corresponding
timing or the loaded DRAM OC Profile is not the JEDEC memory standard. The
stability and compatibility of these memory modules depend on the CPU’s
capabilities
and other installed devices.
• You may install varying memory sizes in Channel A and Channel B.
The system maps
the total size of the lower-sized channel for the dual-channel
configuration. Any excess
memory from the higher-sized channel is then mapped for single-channel
operation.
• We recommend that you install the memory modules from the blue
slots for better
overclocking capability.
• Always install DIMMs with the same CAS latency. For optimal
compatibility, we
recommend that you install memory modules of the same version or date
code (D/C)
from the same vendor. Check with the retailer to get the correct mem

Help, help, help!

Ed


The BIOS reads the SPD (serial presence detect) of the memory modules to
get their timings. When there are mixed modules, the BIOS has to guess
which timings to use. The module with the fastest timings cannot be
used for the module with the slowest timings: you cannot run the module
faster than it is rated (unless you want to get into overclocking -- and
then hope a mismatched set of modules will reliably overclock the same).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_presence_detect

It is possible the BIOS is configured to use SPD from the memory modules
or that you or someone used manual settings in the BIOS. Unless you are
into overclocking (doesn't look like it), the BIOS should be configured
to use SPD to set the memory timings.

Within the same bank, the slowest module gets used. Typically the first
bank's timings get used for all banks. When you put the same type
modules in the other banks, could be they are slower than the original
module. The BIOS probably uses the timings from the first module in the
first bank. If it is faster than your new ones then its shorter timings
get used on the slower modules. The result is the timings used for the
newer but slower modules are too short/tight. You need to move the
original module into the 2nd bank and put the slowest modules in the
first bank. Then the BIOS will used the timings for the slower modules
in the first bank, even for the faster module in the 2nd bank.

There is also the problem in architecture differences. Blocking can be
different in different modules. It has been too long since I got into
this but I remember some unscrupulous sellers were selling low-speed
memory at higher capacity that used a different architecture. The
result was addressing was affected differently across the mismatched
modules. You also must not mix ECC with non-ECC memory. We have no
idea if the original module is dual- or quad-channel and what you got
for the new modules, or what your mobo supports since you never
identified it.

Although the manual says you can install varying sizes of memory
modules, addressing is the same across all banks. If you add a large
and small module, you get the capacity in the large module only what the
small module can deliver. You waste you money on the larger module(s).

We have no idea what mobo you have. "Asus mobo" doesn't specify the
model number. We have no idea of the brand and model for each of the 3
new memory modules you bought or the brand and model of the 1 original
memory module to know if those modules are compatible. You don't just
slap any memory into the slots for it to work.

Since you bought 3 that were the same, you need to buy 1 more that is
the same to replace the original one. You do not need to buy matched
sets of memory modules but all should not only all have the same timings
but also the same architecture. Easiest is to buy all modules of the
same brand and model.


The original module has a slightly lower MHz figure than the 3 new ones.
The new ones are all Corsair, 8GB, 1600 MHz; the original one slightly less.

How do I recognise "bank" and position it with the 4 slots I see?

The mobo is ASUS M5 A97 R2.0

Ed


  #5  
Old May 14th 18, 09:46 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Andy Burns[_6_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,318
Default RAM on ASUS mobo

Ed Cryer wrote:

The new ones are all Corsair, 8GB, 1600 MHz; the original one slightly less.


Slightly?
1333MHz? 1066MHz?


  #6  
Old May 14th 18, 10:10 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,873
Default RAM on ASUS mobo

Ed Cryer wrote:
There are four RAM slots; two blue, two grey. It came with one 8GB
module in a blue slot. I added a second 8GB module in the other blue
slot; all ok, memory checked by Windows 10.
So, I got two new modules exactly the same as the second one, and put
them in the remaining slots. And cram!
I took those two out and booted ok. I put the first new one in one grey
slot, and still cram! Same with just the second one in that slot.

This from the Mobo User Manual;
Memory configurations
You may install 1GB, 2GB, 4GB, and 8GB unbuffered ECC, non-ECC DDR3
DIMMs into the
DIMM sockets.
• Memory module with memory frequency higher than 2133 MHz and its
corresponding
timing or the loaded DRAM OC Profile is not the JEDEC memory standard. The
stability and compatibility of these memory modules depend on the CPU’s
capabilities
and other installed devices.
• You may install varying memory sizes in Channel A and Channel B.
The system maps
the total size of the lower-sized channel for the dual-channel
configuration. Any excess
memory from the higher-sized channel is then mapped for single-channel
operation.
• We recommend that you install the memory modules from the blue
slots for better
overclocking capability.
• Always install DIMMs with the same CAS latency. For optimal
compatibility, we
recommend that you install memory modules of the same version or date
code (D/C)
from the same vendor. Check with the retailer to get the correct mem

Help, help, help!

Ed


You're using a full load of DIMMs on an AMD processor ?

The setup will need to be tuned.

Are you up to the challenge ?
You will need hip waders, rubber gloves, a Scott airpack,
a mosquito netting, and so on :-)

I just know you will enjoy this.

On my Intel system, I dropped my DDR3-2400 DIMMs to DDR3-1866,
rather than waste the time testing inordinately large amounts
of RAM for hours at a time, until I could "discover" the "right" settings.

You see, on my system, with one DIMM per channel, the motherboard
has "XPM", where a couple extra fields in the SPD on the DIMM,
tells the motherboard exactly how much voltage boost to use.
And has extended timing info. When the motherboard is half full,
the "Enable XMP" setting does everything for you. And it works...
on the very first try.

The XMP method breaks down on full DIMM setups. It isn't as
reliable. If you want to use full sets of DIMMs, you must
be prepared to slip on your hip waders.

*******

In the old days...

The DIMM would have "safe" settings in the SPD. This is intended
to allow the system to come up, without any custom settings. This
solves the chicken versus egg problem - the DIMM has only conservative
settings stored inside, so you can "always get in". So it won't
crash in the BIOS right away.

Say I buy DDR3-2400 DIMMs. Then the SPD contains DDR3-1866 timings
with a relaxed (higher value) of CAS.

Next, I "read the value off the tin". On the outside of the DIMM
package, it might say "DDR3-2400 8-8-8-24 2T 1.65V". The order
of the parameters is standardized. The first number is tCAS.
The 2T on the end is the Command Rate, and is the length
of time the address is enabled on a heavily
loaded bus (two cycles for maximum tSetup margin).

OK, so I'm sitting in the BIOS with the settings at "Full Auto",
which was the default when the motherboard was new.

Now, I want to set the motherboard to

AI Overclock Tuner [Manual]
Memory Frequency [DDR3-1600] === use tin speed of slowest RAM

DRAM Timing Control === can use "Auto" here - if it crashes,
you must back off by using higher number
in the items below.

tCAS 6 Bump to tin value of "8" === higher value equals
tRCD 6 Bump to tin value of "8" more relaxed. Use
tRP 6 Bump to tin value of "8" "Auto" for any setting
tRC 18 Bump to tin value of "24" where you are unsure.

DRAM Command Rate 2T === entry is further down the list

DRAM Voltage [1.65V] === use value off tin, or consult web page
NB Voltage [Auto] === is bumped sometimes, if other methods
aren't giving good results. This is the
IMC voltage inside the CPU, the part that
drives the CPU DIMM channel pad drivers.

Anyway, that's a capsule summary.

*******

While testing new RAM (and not trusting it yet):

1) Disconnect all hard drives, with power off.
2) Prepare a copy of memtest86+ . Test #5 can be selected
manually from the menu, once it boots, and Test #5 gives
a quicker test that you aren't too far off the mark on settings.

http://www.memtest.org # 50% down the page, are the downloads

3) If throwing errors, bump the numbers. For example 8-8-8-24
becomes 9-9-9-27. Or in some cases you could use 8-9-8-27
as bumping tRCD alone is sometimes enough. The numbers
are most sensitive, starting on the left. Bumping up
CAS is the last thing you want to do. The one on the end,
the 27, isn't nearly as performance affecting.

Once memtest86+ is passing, and you can do the entire
test suite error free for a pass or two... you're not done yet.

Boot a Linux LiveCD and run Prime95 from mersenne.org/download

https://www.mersenne.org/download/

Linux: 64-bit 29.4b8 2018-02-09 6.0MB p95v294b8.linux64.tar.gz

The Linux one is likely static, and any library dependencies
are built-in. This means you can run the "prime95" executable,
without any Package Manager mumbo-jumbo.

Prime95 opens a thread per core.

You can set the amount of memory to test.

The program does math with a known answer. It can
detect a round-off error (leading you to suspect
bad RAM).

Run that for four hours without error.

If Prime95 fails, back to the BIOS you go...

The program will ask you "Join GIMPS" and you reply
with "just testing", as you're using this program to
test that your computer is solid, and you're not yet
"contributing" to the search for Mersenne primes.

*******

Once Prime95 is passing (4 hours+), power down,
reconnect the Windows disk and boot.

Note that, after all this fine procedure, I had one
user who *still* managed to have a Windows corruption
at shutdown. You should have a backup image of the
Windows boot drive, just in case the unthinkable happens.

*******

If you're not up to this, any computer store tech
support can do this for you. Do not trust the computer
store staff. Connect a hard drive with a new copy of
Windows, with *none* of your personal files on it.
The Windows disk provided, has nothing to do with the
veracity of the RAM setup - once they've set up the
RAM properly, you can swap in the real Windows disk
later.

The reason for this precaution, is some computer
stores *blindly* reformat any hard drive they
find inside the computer. I've encountered all sorts
of horror stories about this. *Don't* leave drives
containing data of any value inside the machine, when
you head off to "Geek Squad" or whatever the UK
equivalent is.

Paul
  #7  
Old May 14th 18, 10:25 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Ed Cryer
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,621
Default RAM on ASUS mobo

Andy Burns wrote:
Ed Cryer wrote:

The new ones are all Corsair, 8GB, 1600 MHz; the original one slightly
less.


Slightly?
1333MHz? 1066MHz?



I was using the utility SIW, and trusting its reading for the original
stick. But I've decided to trust my eyes instead. And what I've found is
that the original one is exactly the same stick as the three new ones
I've bought; all like this;
https://goo.gl/VtDetJ
including the "Valueselect" sticker.
The four are all the same; all 1600MHz, DDR3, 8GB.

Ed

PS. If the original one isn't what's on the label, and it's really of a
lower MHz, and (as VanguardLH says) that's setting the bar-level, then
why did the first stick I added work so well?
  #8  
Old May 14th 18, 10:57 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Andy Burns[_6_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,318
Default RAM on ASUS mobo

Ed Cryer wrote:

The four are all the same; all 1600MHz, DDR3, 8GB.


Well, theoretically they are fine for that MB.

https://www.corsair.com/uk/en/Categories/Products/Memory/Mainstream-Memory/Corsair-Memory-%E2%80%94-8GB-DDR3-Memory/p/CMV8GX3M1A1600C11

Try a pair of the new ones in the blue slots at the tested speed
of 1333MHz 9-9-9-24

if that works then all four at that speed.

if that works, try two and finally all four of them
at the XMS speed of 1600MHz 11-11-11-30

I've not used an AMD CPU for years, so I'll take Paul's word for it that
a quad SIMM configuration is tricky. I have no issues with 4x8GB on
"workstation" class intel motherboards.
  #9  
Old May 14th 18, 11:09 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Ed Cryer
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,621
Default RAM on ASUS mobo

Andy Burns wrote:
Ed Cryer wrote:

The four are all the same; all 1600MHz, DDR3, 8GB.


Well, theoretically they are fine for that MB.

https://www.corsair.com/uk/en/Categories/Products/Memory/Mainstream-Memory/Corsair-Memory-%E2%80%94-8GB-DDR3-Memory/p/CMV8GX3M1A1600C11


Try a pair of the new ones in the blue slots at the tested speed
of 1333MHzÂ*Â*Â* 9-9-9-24

if that works then all four at that speed.

if that works, try two and finally all four of them
at the XMS speed of 1600MHz 11-11-11-30

I've not used an AMD CPU for years, so I'll take Paul's word for it that
a quad SIMM configuration is tricky.Â* I have no issues with 4x8GB on
"workstation" class intel motherboards.


Thanks for this. This sounds practical.
I shall try them, as you say.
Please explain "9-9-9-24"; and tell me how to set the speed.

Ed
  #10  
Old May 14th 18, 11:20 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Andy Burns[_6_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,318
Default RAM on ASUS mobo

Ed Cryer wrote:

Please explain "9-9-9-24"; and tell me how to set the speed.


Go into the BIOS, press Del at power-on, use Ai Tweaker

section 3.4.5 set the memory speed to DDR3-1600

section 3.4.11 memory timing

section 3.4.6 memory voltage you want 1.5V

http://dlcdnet.asus.com/pub/ASUS/mb/SocketAM3+/M5A97_R2.0/E7438_M5A97_R20_Manual_web_hi-res.pdf


  #11  
Old May 14th 18, 11:35 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,873
Default RAM on ASUS mobo

Ed Cryer wrote:
Andy Burns wrote:
Ed Cryer wrote:

The four are all the same; all 1600MHz, DDR3, 8GB.


Well, theoretically they are fine for that MB.

https://www.corsair.com/uk/en/Categories/Products/Memory/Mainstream-Memory/Corsair-Memory-%E2%80%94-8GB-DDR3-Memory/p/CMV8GX3M1A1600C11


Try a pair of the new ones in the blue slots at the tested speed
of 1333MHz 9-9-9-24

if that works then all four at that speed.

if that works, try two and finally all four of them
at the XMS speed of 1600MHz 11-11-11-30

I've not used an AMD CPU for years, so I'll take Paul's word for it
that a quad SIMM configuration is tricky. I have no issues with 4x8GB
on "workstation" class intel motherboards.


Thanks for this. This sounds practical.
I shall try them, as you say.
Please explain "9-9-9-24"; and tell me how to set the speed.

Ed


9-9-9-24

tCAS tRCD tRP tRC

In roughly the same order as your DRAM customization screen.

The numbers are counts of "cycles".

At 1600MHz, the inverse is 0.6ns. 9 cycles at 0.6ns is 5.4ns.

Internally, all the RAM understands is nanoseconds.
"Did you meet my 5.4ns minimum ???" it asks.

If the RAM is set to DDR1333, the inverse of that is 0.75ns.
To make a number close to 5.4ns, we need about 7.2 cycles.
Rounding up, 8 cycles would work, without causing a smaller
number than the 5.4ns minimum.

9-9-9-24 DDR3-1600 or 8-8-8-X DDR3-1333

The timing table you can see in CPUZ shows
example timings that are recorded in the SPD
for this. Other values can be done by the BIOS
code by interpolation and so on.

Paul
  #12  
Old May 14th 18, 11:55 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Ed Cryer
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,621
Default RAM on ASUS mobo

Paul wrote:
Ed Cryer wrote:
Andy Burns wrote:
Ed Cryer wrote:

The four are all the same; all 1600MHz, DDR3, 8GB.

Well, theoretically they are fine for that MB.

https://www.corsair.com/uk/en/Categories/Products/Memory/Mainstream-Memory/Corsair-Memory-%E2%80%94-8GB-DDR3-Memory/p/CMV8GX3M1A1600C11


Try a pair of the new ones in the blue slots at the tested speed
of 1333MHzÂ*Â*Â* 9-9-9-24

if that works then all four at that speed.

if that works, try two and finally all four of them
at the XMS speed of 1600MHz 11-11-11-30

I've not used an AMD CPU for years, so I'll take Paul's word for it
that a quad SIMM configuration is tricky.Â* I have no issues with
4x8GB on "workstation" class intel motherboards.


Thanks for this. This sounds practical.
I shall try them, as you say.
Please explain "9-9-9-24"; and tell me how to set the speed.

Ed


9-9-9-24

tCAS tRCD tRP tRC

In roughly the same order as your DRAM customization screen.

The numbers are counts of "cycles".

At 1600MHz, the inverse is 0.6ns. 9 cycles at 0.6ns is 5.4ns.

Internally, all the RAM understands is nanoseconds.
"Did you meet my 5.4ns minimum ???" it asks.

If the RAM is set to DDR1333, the inverse of that is 0.75ns.
To make a number close to 5.4ns, we need about 7.2 cycles.
Rounding up, 8 cycles would work, without causing a smaller
number than the 5.4ns minimum.

9-9-9-24 DDR3-1600 or 8-8-8-X DDR3-1333

The timing table you can see in CPUZ shows
example timings that are recorded in the SPD
for this. Other values can be done by the BIOS
code by interpolation and so on.

Â*Â* Paul


Here are the SPD tabs of CPU-Z for the two working modules.
Any comments?
https://www.dropbox.com/s/1d8v4h5mji...ts2-4.png?dl=0

Ed

  #13  
Old May 15th 18, 02:22 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,873
Default RAM on ASUS mobo

Ed Cryer wrote:
Paul wrote:
Ed Cryer wrote:
Andy Burns wrote:
Ed Cryer wrote:

The four are all the same; all 1600MHz, DDR3, 8GB.

Well, theoretically they are fine for that MB.

https://www.corsair.com/uk/en/Categories/Products/Memory/Mainstream-Memory/Corsair-Memory-%E2%80%94-8GB-DDR3-Memory/p/CMV8GX3M1A1600C11


Try a pair of the new ones in the blue slots at the tested speed
of 1333MHz 9-9-9-24

if that works then all four at that speed.

if that works, try two and finally all four of them
at the XMS speed of 1600MHz 11-11-11-30

I've not used an AMD CPU for years, so I'll take Paul's word for it
that a quad SIMM configuration is tricky. I have no issues with
4x8GB on "workstation" class intel motherboards.

Thanks for this. This sounds practical.
I shall try them, as you say.
Please explain "9-9-9-24"; and tell me how to set the speed.

Ed


9-9-9-24

tCAS tRCD tRP tRC

In roughly the same order as your DRAM customization screen.

The numbers are counts of "cycles".

At 1600MHz, the inverse is 0.6ns. 9 cycles at 0.6ns is 5.4ns.

Internally, all the RAM understands is nanoseconds.
"Did you meet my 5.4ns minimum ???" it asks.

If the RAM is set to DDR1333, the inverse of that is 0.75ns.
To make a number close to 5.4ns, we need about 7.2 cycles.
Rounding up, 8 cycles would work, without causing a smaller
number than the 5.4ns minimum.

9-9-9-24 DDR3-1600 or 8-8-8-X DDR3-1333

The timing table you can see in CPUZ shows
example timings that are recorded in the SPD
for this. Other values can be done by the BIOS
code by interpolation and so on.

Paul


Here are the SPD tabs of CPU-Z for the two working modules.
Any comments?
https://www.dropbox.com/s/1d8v4h5mji...ts2-4.png?dl=0

Ed


Assuming those two samples are DIMMs from different
sets, they're very close to one another at the top setting.

You could start by using the frequency setting, and
let the BIOS do the math on the individual timings.

*******

AI Overclock Tuner [Manual]
Memory Frequency [DDR3-1600] === Start with 1600, switch to 1333 if
there is trouble, let the BIOS do the
math for the rest.
DRAM Timing Control [example at 1600]
tCAS Auto (11)
tRCD Auto (11)
tRP Auto (11)
tRC Auto (41)

DRAM Command Rate 2T === definitely want 2T
DRAM Voltage [1.50V] === You should be able to use between
1.5 and 1.65V without issue.
NB Voltage [Auto] === Leave this for now

If that doesn't work: 11-12-11-41

tRCD 12
DRAM Voltage [1.65V]

If that doesn't work

tCAS 12
tRCD 12
tRP 12
tRC Auto === let BIOS work it out

Sometimes, the error rate and whether the errors are exactly
reproducible on each run, hints at whether the RAM chips
have an issue, or the bus timing is flaky, or the Vnb needs
to be adjusted up a notch or two. The Vnb regulators now
have fairly tiny step sizes and are capable of fine adjustment.

*******

While your board has an "auto overclock" kind of feature,
I don't like the voltages or extreme settings those tend to use.
Yes, if you jam the controls to max, you can practically
guarantee an overclock, and the methods they use on these
boards aren't exactly "subtle". Still, if you read an article
somewhere that says the method used is good, I won't argue
with that.

I try to sneak up on the settings if I can, and prefer
to not apply extreme voltages if I can avoid it. My previous
set of "hot DIMMs" had a problem, so I'm trying to not make
any more "hot DIMMs" on purpose by using extreme settings.

When the RAM on the machine started throwing errors a couple
of sets of RAM ago, I used Vnb as the only setting, to fix it.
Nothing else needed to be adjusted. I could do this though,
because I was working on a theory that the Northbridge was aging.
I knew the settings I'd used for everything else, were fine
at the time of the build.

Normally, the board will be selecting Command Rate 2T on its
own, whether because the DIMM clock is rather high, or
because the bus is loaded (four DIMMs). There's hardly a chance
to realistically use 1T (maybe a single set of single sided
4GB DIMMs).

Maybe you'll have more joy at 1333, with a full set.

Some older AMD setups used to work that way, DDR400
with two DIMMs, DDR333 with four DIMMs.

HTH,
Paul
  #14  
Old May 15th 18, 02:54 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Mike S[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 496
Default RAM on ASUS mobo

On 5/14/2018 6:22 PM, Paul wrote:
Ed Cryer wrote:
Paul wrote:
Ed Cryer wrote:
Andy Burns wrote:
Ed Cryer wrote:

The four are all the same; all 1600MHz, DDR3, 8GB.

Well, theoretically they are fine for that MB.

https://www.corsair.com/uk/en/Categories/Products/Memory/Mainstream-Memory/Corsair-Memory-%E2%80%94-8GB-DDR3-Memory/p/CMV8GX3M1A1600C11


Try a pair of the new ones in the blue slots at the tested speed
of 1333MHzÂ*Â*Â* 9-9-9-24

if that works then all four at that speed.

if that works, try two and finally all four of them
at the XMS speed of 1600MHz 11-11-11-30

I've not used an AMD CPU for years, so I'll take Paul's word for it
that a quad SIMM configuration is tricky.Â* I have no issues with
4x8GB on "workstation" class intel motherboards.

Thanks for this. This sounds practical.
I shall try them, as you say.
Please explain "9-9-9-24"; and tell me how to set the speed.

Ed

9-9-9-24

tCAS tRCD tRP tRC

In roughly the same order as your DRAM customization screen.

The numbers are counts of "cycles".

At 1600MHz, the inverse is 0.6ns. 9 cycles at 0.6ns is 5.4ns.

Internally, all the RAM understands is nanoseconds.
"Did you meet my 5.4ns minimum ???" it asks.

If the RAM is set to DDR1333, the inverse of that is 0.75ns.
To make a number close to 5.4ns, we need about 7.2 cycles.
Rounding up, 8 cycles would work, without causing a smaller
number than the 5.4ns minimum.

9-9-9-24 DDR3-1600 or 8-8-8-X DDR3-1333

The timing table you can see in CPUZ shows
example timings that are recorded in the SPD
for this. Other values can be done by the BIOS
code by interpolation and so on.

Â*Â*Â* Paul


Here are the SPD tabs of CPU-Z for the two working modules.
Any comments?
https://www.dropbox.com/s/1d8v4h5mji...ts2-4.png?dl=0

Ed


Assuming those two samples are DIMMs from different
sets, they're very close to one another at the top setting.

You could start by using the frequency setting, and
let the BIOS do the math on the individual timings.

*******

Â*Â* AI Overclock Tuner [Manual]
Â*Â* Memory FrequencyÂ*Â* [DDR3-1600]Â* === Start with 1600, switch to 1333 if
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* there is trouble, let the BIOS
do the
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* math for the rest.
Â*Â* DRAM Timing ControlÂ*Â* [example at 1600]
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* tCASÂ*Â* Auto (11)
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* tRCDÂ*Â* Auto (11)
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* tRPÂ*Â*Â* Auto (11)
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* tRCÂ*Â*Â* Auto (41)

Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* DRAM Command RateÂ* 2TÂ*Â*Â*Â* === definitely want 2T
Â*Â* DRAM VoltageÂ* [1.50V]Â*Â*Â*Â* === You should be able to use between
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* 1.5 and 1.65V without issue.
Â*Â* NB VoltageÂ*Â*Â* [Auto]Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* === Leave this for now

If that doesn't work:Â* 11-12-11-41

Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* tRCDÂ*Â* 12
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* DRAM Voltage [1.65V]

If that doesn't work

Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* tCASÂ*Â* 12
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* tRCDÂ*Â* 12
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* tRPÂ*Â*Â* 12
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* tRCÂ*Â*Â* Auto === let BIOS work it out

Sometimes, the error rate and whether the errors are exactly
reproducible on each run, hints at whether the RAM chips
have an issue, or the bus timing is flaky, or the Vnb needs
to be adjusted up a notch or two. The Vnb regulators now
have fairly tiny step sizes and are capable of fine adjustment.

*******

While your board has an "auto overclock" kind of feature,
I don't like the voltages or extreme settings those tend to use.
Yes, if you jam the controls to max, you can practically
guarantee an overclock, and the methods they use on these
boards aren't exactly "subtle". Still, if you read an article
somewhere that says the method used is good, I won't argue
with that.

I try to sneak up on the settings if I can, and prefer
to not apply extreme voltages if I can avoid it. My previous
set of "hot DIMMs" had a problem, so I'm trying to not make
any more "hot DIMMs" on purpose by using extreme settings.

When the RAM on the machine started throwing errors a couple
of sets of RAM ago, I used Vnb as the only setting, to fix it.
Nothing else needed to be adjusted. I could do this though,
because I was working on a theory that the Northbridge was aging.
I knew the settings I'd used for everything else, were fine
at the time of the build.

Normally, the board will be selecting Command Rate 2T on its
own, whether because the DIMM clock is rather high, or
because the bus is loaded (four DIMMs). There's hardly a chance
to realistically use 1T (maybe a single set of single sided
4GB DIMMs).

Maybe you'll have more joy at 1333, with a full set.

Some older AMD setups used to work that way, DDR400
with two DIMMs, DDR333 with four DIMMs.

HTH,
Â*Â*Â* Paul


Thanks for another excellent post Paul.

  #15  
Old May 15th 18, 08:54 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Andy Burns[_6_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,318
Default RAM on ASUS mobo

Ed Cryer wrote:

Here are the SPD tabs of CPU-Z for the two working modules.
Any comments?


The SPD tab is more about what the DIMM in each slot is capable of
doing, whereas the Memory tab shows what it *is* doing

They look like they should both do 1600MHz 11-11-11 as advertised
 




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