Windows 10 automatically installed itself.

On 3/15/2016 11:38 AM, Char Jackson wrote:
On Tue, 15 Mar 2016 09:27:32 -0700, mike wrote:

On 3/15/2016 7:20 AM, Char Jackson wrote:
On Tue, 15 Mar 2016 01:21:12 -0700, mike wrote:

What I want is very simple.
Give me a button that says "check for updates".
Give me an honest description of what pain each update will inflict.
When I want one of the updates, I'll install it.
Otherwise STFU and quit screwing with my computer.
MS has lost my trust. I'm sure that doesn't bother them one bit.

Your requirements aren't compatible with Windows 10.
Your second requirement is no longer available at all.

I'm in general agreement with what you're requesting, so my primary desktop
PC will stay on Win 7 SP1, while my work laptop will stay on Win 8.x, which
is what it came with. No Win 10 digital entitlements for me, thank you. I've
looked at Win 10 in a VM and wasn't impressed.

We agree on that, BUT, there will come a day when you MUST have
windows 10 to do something of value to you. When that day comes, and it
will,

Highly doubtful. Besides, everyone who's jumping on the whole digital
entitlement thing just in case there eventually comes a day when they'll be
glad they did should consider that if/when that day finally comes, will they
even still have the computer that they digitally entitled back in 2015-2016?
In many cases, probably not.

Windows 7 still has nearly 4 years of supported life ahead of it, and more
years of unsupported life after that. Windows 10 being "free" doesn't come
close to enticing me to switch now. I'm willing to reassess in 2020 but for
now the choice is clear.

It's nice to have such a firm grasp on the future.
I wish I felt that confident about my crystal ball.

I had no plans to upgrade from win2K...ever...until the day
that the hardware and software available for win2k became
unacceptable. I had no plan to upgrade from XP...ever...
until the day came that using win7 became easier than not
switching to win7. I had the disk from the launch event
two years earlier. And I was glad I did. Even the disk from
the Vista launch event has come in handy on occasion.

When someone tries to give me something, I usually say, "thanks."
There's no requirement that I ever use it.

On Tue, 15 Mar 2016 12:21:30 -0700, mike wrote:


I had no plans to upgrade from win2K...ever...until the day
that the hardware and software available for win2k became
unacceptable.


As far as I'm concerned, that's one of the most important reasons to
have to switch to the new version of Windows, regardless of what it
is. Sooner or later, you're going to want new hardware or software
that isn't compatible with the old version you're running.

The other important reason is security. Newer versions are more secure
than older versions, and they get more and better security updates.

On 03/15/2016 09:20 AM, Char Jackson wrote:

[snip]

I'm in general agreement with what you're requesting, so my primary desktop
PC will stay on Win 7 SP1, while my work laptop will stay on Win 8.x, which
is what it came with. No Win 10 digital entitlements for me, thank you. I've
looked at Win 10 in a VM and wasn't impressed.


I put Win 10 (IIRC it was 9926 at first) on a VM. I have started it for.

1. Check to see it it works.
2. Try to set it up properly
3. See if my website looks OK in Edge
4. Update Windows 10
5. Repeat #2 and #3 after #4

and almost nothing else. When I want or need to do anything with
Windows, I use 7 (or even XP).

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"When science and the Bible differ, science has obviously misinterpreted
its data." [Henry Morris, Head of Institute for Creation Research]

On Tue, 15 Mar 2016 12:21:30 -0700, mike wrote:

On 3/15/2016 11:38 AM, Char Jackson wrote:
On Tue, 15 Mar 2016 09:27:32 -0700, mike wrote:

On 3/15/2016 7:20 AM, Char Jackson wrote:
On Tue, 15 Mar 2016 01:21:12 -0700, mike wrote:

What I want is very simple.
Give me a button that says "check for updates".
Give me an honest description of what pain each update will inflict.
When I want one of the updates, I'll install it.
Otherwise STFU and quit screwing with my computer.
MS has lost my trust. I'm sure that doesn't bother them one bit.

Your requirements aren't compatible with Windows 10.
Your second requirement is no longer available at all.

I'm in general agreement with what you're requesting, so my primary desktop
PC will stay on Win 7 SP1, while my work laptop will stay on Win 8.x, which
is what it came with. No Win 10 digital entitlements for me, thank you. I've
looked at Win 10 in a VM and wasn't impressed.

We agree on that, BUT, there will come a day when you MUST have
windows 10 to do something of value to you. When that day comes, and it
will,

Highly doubtful. Besides, everyone who's jumping on the whole digital
entitlement thing just in case there eventually comes a day when they'll be
glad they did should consider that if/when that day finally comes, will they
even still have the computer that they digitally entitled back in 2015-2016?
In many cases, probably not.

Windows 7 still has nearly 4 years of supported life ahead of it, and more
years of unsupported life after that. Windows 10 being "free" doesn't come
close to enticing me to switch now. I'm willing to reassess in 2020 but for
now the choice is clear.

It's nice to have such a firm grasp on the future.
I wish I felt that confident about my crystal ball.

Thanks, but this time it was pretty easy.

I had no plans to upgrade from win2K...ever...until the day
that the hardware and software available for win2k became
unacceptable. I had no plan to upgrade from XP...ever...
until the day came that using win7 became easier than not
switching to win7. I had the disk from the launch event
two years earlier. And I was glad I did. Even the disk from
the Vista launch event has come in handy on occasion.

When someone tries to give me something, I usually say, "thanks."
There's no requirement that I ever use it.

I agree, but in this case no one is giving you or me anything. Windows 10
comes at a high price. Too high for me to consider it at this time. Too high
for me to even put it in my back pocket to cover an uncertain future. I've
tested it briefly in a VM and it's not acceptable to me.

It took well over a year of daily use, but I pretty much have 8.1 tamed,
finally, so if something happens to 7 I have a plan B in place. Having said
that, I don't see 7 going anywhere anytime soon, especially while it's still
under MS support. I really have no idea where the rush to 10 is coming from,
other than perhaps MS marketing is achieving its desired effect. Is there
any other rational explanation for why people would rush to give up
something that works for something that doesn't? I'm baffled.

On 03/15/2016 02:21 PM, mike wrote:

[snip]

I had no plans to upgrade from win2K...ever...until the day
that the hardware and software available for win2k became
unacceptable.

My reason for upgrading from win2K was that XP could better handle
high-speed internet (2K appeared to be limited to about 2Mbps per
connection). My speed had been increased to 4Mbps then.

I had no plan to upgrade from XP...ever...
until the day came that using win7 became easier than not
switching to win7. I had the disk from the launch event
two years earlier. And I was glad I did. Even the disk from
the Vista launch event has come in handy on occasion.

When someone tries to give me something, I usually say, "thanks."
There's no requirement that I ever use it.

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"When science and the Bible differ, science has obviously misinterpreted
its data." [Henry Morris, Head of Institute for Creation Research]

On Tue, 15 Mar 2016 12:58:09 -0700, Ken Blake wrote:

On Tue, 15 Mar 2016 12:21:30 -0700, mike wrote:


I had no plans to upgrade from win2K...ever...until the day
that the hardware and software available for win2k became
unacceptable.


As far as I'm concerned, that's one of the most important reasons to
have to switch to the new version of Windows, regardless of what it
is. Sooner or later, you're going to want new hardware or software
that isn't compatible with the old version you're running.

I'm sure that has happened to people, but it hasn't happened to me or to
anyone I know. So if that's one of the most important reasons, then we don't
have much, do we?

The other important reason is security. Newer versions are more secure
than older versions, and they get more and better security updates.

What do you base that on?

On Mon, 14 Mar 2016 09:40:44 -0500, "Mayayana"
wrote:

| I don't think that follows. You have a license
| to use one copy of the software, just as you
| buy a single license when you buy a book or
| record album or architectural blueprints. That
| doesn't give them the right to change what
| they sold you. Nor does it give them a right
| to look at your private files. Those are *your*
| intellectual property.
|
| A very poor comparision. Rights for each of your comparisions are unique
| to each, not comparable to support a common right for each.
|

They're all intellectual property, which is what
Microsoft claims to be licensing. Arguments like yours
always hinge on a technical interpretation: People
have to click the EULA button to use their computer.
Therefore they agree to anything in the EULA. But no
one can *honestly* claim Microsoft has the right to
access your computer without permission or change
the product they sold you, just because you clicked
a button that you were required to click in order for
your computer to work.

Does Amazon have a right to watch while you
read Kindle books? Not by any normal standard of
common decency. If they do so it can only be
because it's non-confrontational and invisible. New
technology has made it possible.

Imagine that I come to your house to build a closet.
Instead of the typical 2-page building contract I
offer you a 50 page tome in tiny print. Buried in
that contract, in obscure language, are claims that
I have a right to advertise my business on your lawn,
use pictures of your house in my advertising, and
quote you in my advertising. No one can *honestly*
say you agreed to all that, even though a court
might rule otherwise. You thought you were agreeing
to pay me for some construction work.

There was an interesting related case in 2012:

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/...man-joel-glass

A woman at an Orlando Magic game ended up with
a giant closeup photo, of herself cheering, being used
in ads on the sides of buses. She sued. She'd been
photographed with a telephoto lens as she watched
the game. The team claimed they had rights to profit
from her image in accord with the fine print on the
back of the ticket! The analysis is interesting.
Among other points is that since she's not famous her
likeness is not worth much money. If she were a movie
star she'd have a better case. Movie stars have more
rights than just plain folks.
I don't know how the case ended up. The team
stopped using the ads, but I haven't found any
news about who won the case. It's an interesting
case in two ways. It demonstrates how technology
is changing how things work. It also demonstrates
how public attitudes are gradually changing to regard
private intrusion (and the ubiquity of advertising) as
normal.

| Which 'private' files does MSFT 'look at' ?
|

Which ones don't they look at?

http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/priva...t/default.aspx

If you read that page you'll see there's nothing left
out. The Win10 EULA states that you accept those
terms as defined in the privacy agreement. Some
might say that MS only processes the data for
business purposes, but that doesn't make it any less
an intrusion. Since when is it normal that one needs
to agree to a privacy contract to use one's computer?!

It's been documented that Win10 calls home even
with all privacy settings maxed, and that much of
that communication is encrypted. It's like the example
of the salesman who breaks into your house. You
come home to find a window jimmied and a man in
your office. He smiles and says not to worry because
he's only there for marketing research. Do you say,
"Okey doke. I'll be in the kitchen when you finish.
Come on in for coffee. As a Microsoft MVP I know
that breaking in for business reasons is not really
a break-in." ?

| . Like Albert, the OP. He's sort of outraged.
| On the other hand, he's not sure what to think.
|
| Looks like Albert decided that W10 on the wife's device was the
| preferred route.

Yes. Most people can't be bothered. He was taken
aback that MS was taking the liberty of changing
his computer, but in the long run he opted for
convenience. Using Win10 means he doesn't need
to remember as much. So now he'll acclimate to MS
spying and won't be taken aback so much when they
put ads for coupons on his prescriptions on the
Win10 desktop. It's easier. And heck, he can save
money!

Most people opt for convenience. That's what's
making the online services world go 'round. You
fill in a form, click a button, and then you can
share photos, talk to friends, listen to music, or
do any number of other things. Privacy intrusion
is an abstract and complex issue. The ability to
share baby pictures is an immediate, emotional
issue: "I want you to see my baby pictures.
Whaddayamean you don't use Facebook?!"

I remember seeing surveys when privacy first
became an issue talked about. The majority of
people wanted to be paid for their data. They
didn't want much. Maybe a couple of bucks. Most
really didn't care about being spied on and didn't
really care about the money. Their only
concern was that if someone was making money
with that data then they'd be suckers if they didn't
get a cut. People cared about not being suckers.

It's Albert's right to do as he pleases. (At least
within the confines of Microsoft's terms.) I don't
consider it my cause to stop Win10. I'm only trying
to make information available to people who want it.
Microsoft spends billions on marketing. Most people
have little idea of what's going on. They deserve
to be able to make informed choices.


1st off I don't keep anything on my computer that I would not want
someone to see. I don't do any banking or any other personal business
on the Internet. I don't keep any photographs that would be construed
to be X-rated.

But I do resent knowing that someone would have access to my private
stuff. MS assures me that they don't and won't access any files of
that type because they have no interest in it. Whereas a third-party
at random may try to hack my computer I've done everything I know to
do to avoid that.

Besides that life is too short to worry about all that crap ;-).

(subject change)

I mentioned earlier that I have a PC in the RV which I have installed
a small computer. Because of the amount of electronics I have
installed in the cabinets I also installed cooling fans which will be
used demonstrated on my webpage. I just thought you might be
interested.
Albert

http://www.lasonwebpage.com/Picture_Board.html

On 15 Mar 2016 14:52:50 GMT, Bucky Breeder
wrote:

Albert posted this via
:

I have 2 PC computers that I primarily use where as my wife has one.
Both of my PC's are running Windows 10 was all updates however my wife
has resisted going to 10. I can understand why because of the way she
uses her computer.

Every time that MS has queried as to whether she wants to upgrade she
or I have refused. Saturday morning she went in to do her stuff and
found out that Microsoft had summarily installed 10 and if she did not
want it she had to request to return to the previous OS (8.1) which I
did. It took about 35 to 40 minutes to get her computer back the way
it was. And so far she hasn't noticed if anything is messed up. We
have our fingers crossed.

QUESTION: how can Microsoft or any other entity go into her computer
and do what they did without her knowledge or permission?

Oh, and by the way her computer is a HP they came with Windows OS on
it when she bought it.

Thank you,
Albert

Microsoft has the legal right to force you to use Windows 10 but they are
trying to be nice about it by advertising on television with little kids
and bugs in their ads to soften you up some. Windows 10, get used to it!

Resistance is futile.

Apparently you haven't read all of my postings on this thread. I am
not the one who was resisting, SWMBO was but she has seen the promised
land ;-)

Please post some more nekkid pikktures of yer wife. TIA.

Why would I want to take my clothes off to take pictures of my wife.
:-)
Just for your imagination I am 81 and she is a little younger so
whatever turns you on.

More juvenile antics.

| I mentioned earlier that I have a PC in the RV which I have installed
| a small computer. Because of the amount of electronics I have
| installed in the cabinets I also installed cooling fans which will be
| used demonstrated on my webpage. I just thought you might be
| interested.
| Albert
|
| http://www.lasonwebpage.com/Picture_Board.html

Odd coincidence. I took the liberty of doing a
whois before visiting. (One never knows these
days.) I have a friend who's moved to your town.
Road 7585. I didn't realize there was greenery
there. I was imagining all sand, caliche, and stone.

On 3/15/2016 1:23 PM, Mark Lloyd wrote:
On 03/15/2016 09:20 AM, Char Jackson wrote:

[snip]

I'm in general agreement with what you're requesting, so my primary
desktop
PC will stay on Win 7 SP1, while my work laptop will stay on Win 8.x,
which
is what it came with. No Win 10 digital entitlements for me, thank
you. I've
looked at Win 10 in a VM and wasn't impressed.


I put Win 10 (IIRC it was 9926 at first) on a VM. I have started it for.

1. Check to see it it works.
2. Try to set it up properly
3. See if my website looks OK in Edge
4. Update Windows 10
5. Repeat #2 and #3 after #4

and almost nothing else. When I want or need to do anything with
Windows, I use 7 (or even XP).

VM is certainly a good start, but it hides all the hardware issues.
And, I don't think you get the digital entitlement.

I'm not suggesting that anybody SWITCH to win10 NOW.

I merely suggest that you can keep your options open by
installing it to your real hardware. Restore your backup
image and you're right back where you were with an option
in your pocket.

I'd be really disappointed to find out in December 2016 that
I had to pay $200 for an OS option that I'd let slip thru my
fingers.

On 03/15/2016 02:58 PM, Ken Blake wrote:
On Tue, 15 Mar 2016 12:21:30 -0700, mike wrote:

[snipp]

The other important reason is security. Newer versions are more secure
than older versions, and they get more and better security updates.


and more and "better" malware.

Regular troll...

--
Char Jackson none none.invalid wrote in news:18sgebp74aikf19v7aogqlnl2704cns9bk 4ax.com:

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From: Char Jackson none none.invalid
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Windows 10 automatically installed itself.
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On Tue, 15 Mar 2016 12:58:09 -0700, Ken Blake Ken invalid.news.com wrote:

On Tue, 15 Mar 2016 12:21:30 -0700, mike ham789 netzero.net wrote:


I had no plans to upgrade from win2K...ever...until the day
that the hardware and software available for win2k became
unacceptable.


As far as I'm concerned, that's one of the most important reasons to
have to switch to the new version of Windows, regardless of what it
is. Sooner or later, you're going to want new hardware or software
that isn't compatible with the old version you're running.

I'm sure that has happened to people, but it hasn't happened to me or to
anyone I know. So if that's one of the most important reasons, then we don't
have much, do we?

The other important reason is security. Newer versions are more secure
than older versions, and they get more and better security updates.

What do you base that on?

On 3/15/2016 4:23 PM, Mark Lloyd's fingers rattled off:
On 03/15/2016 09:20 AM, Char Jackson wrote:

[snip]

I'm in general agreement with what you're requesting, so my primary
desktop
PC will stay on Win 7 SP1, while my work laptop will stay on Win 8.x,
which
is what it came with. No Win 10 digital entitlements for me, thank
you. I've
looked at Win 10 in a VM and wasn't impressed.


I put Win 10 (IIRC it was 9926 at first) on a VM. I have started it for.

1. Check to see it it works.
2. Try to set it up properly
3. See if my website looks OK in Edge

Edge? Who cares?

I did a clean install of W10 and Edge doesn't even have a shortcut on
the Quick Launch, the Toolbar, the Start Menu ... nowhere to be found.

Click on the executable on C:? won't launch. Do you think I'm going to
worry about how my Web sites look an a browser I can't launch on a clean
install of an OS? I don't f*ing think so.

W10 is so disfunctional it makes Arnie on LS Law look sane.

Okay, sorry for the horribly outdated reference but I couldn't think of
a more recent analogy. Just watched like 5 episodes of The Leftovers
and my brain is still reeling.

Oh, and BTW, I did clean installs on two systems with the same results
vis-a-vis Edge. As I said: Who cares?

If Edge is standards compatible I'm okay because my sites are W3
compliant. If not? Well the 3 people who use Edge to surf? shrug



--
Ed Mullen
http://edmullen.net/
Are there seeing eye humans for blind dogs?

On 03/15/2016 08:03 PM, mike wrote:

[snip]

VM is certainly a good start, but it hides all the hardware issues.
And, I don't think you get the digital entitlement.

You do if you upgrade from a "properly activated" version in that VM.

[snip]
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"When science and the Bible differ, science has obviously misinterpreted
its data." [Henry Morris, Head of Institute for Creation Research]

In article
Ken Blake wrote:

On Tue, 15 Mar 2016 12:21:30 -0700, mike wrote:


I had no plans to upgrade from win2K...ever...until the day
that the hardware and software available for win2k became
unacceptable.


As far as I'm concerned, that's one of the most important reasons to
have to switch to the new version of Windows, regardless of what it
is. Sooner or later, you're going to want new hardware or software
that isn't compatible with the old version you're running.

The other important reason is security. Newer versions are more secure
than older versions, and they get more and better security updates.

That cuts both ways. Win 10 lacks drivers for older hardware, and
so forces unintended peripheral upgrades that are undesired. I
don't want a new video card or scanner, thank you. And I don't want
Win10 watching over me.