What can you do on Windows 10 that you can't do on Windows XP or Windows 7?

On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 02:29:15 +0000 (UTC), Bob J Jones wrote:

https://www.winxdvd.com/answers/wind...windows-xp.htm

WTF? Did a Microsoft Marketing intern write that article?

The biggest deal in Windows 10 over WinXP/Win7 is MKV?
Huh?

Windows 10 supports MKV?
WinXP & Win7 don't support MKV?

Makes no sense.
At least not to me.

MKV support is not provided by the OS. It's provided by the Windows Media
Foundation library (WMF). It's the main multimedia library for the Windows
OS, and it's required by Windows Media Player and Windows Media Center, but
WMF is not required by the system. It's actually separate from the system,
and it can be removed entirely without fatally crippling the system. Unlike
MSIE where its libraries has been heavily used by the system.

Wow... glad you found it so helpful. Next time I'll try to read your mine
to ensure that taking the time to offer some assistance isn't wasted.

Don't hold your breath though.

Bob S.

In , JJ
wrote:

- Use larger RAM. i.e. the physical memory.

- Use new features/functions of DirectX v12. i.e. better 3D graphics. IOTW,
play the latest games.

- Scale text and GUI up to 200%. e.g. for 4K+ monitors.

- Run consoles in full screen mode. But still in graphics video mode,
though.

- Run "app" applications. i.e. those from Windows Store.

- Use Microsoft Edge web browser.

I only need the last one, though...

Thanks for that input.

Some of this is good, some generally accepted as crap.
So let's go down the list to pull out the goodies!

- Use larger RAM. i.e. the physical memory.'

This is likely good if it's true.
Can 64-bit Win10 use more ram than 64-bit Win7?

- Use new features/functions of DirectX v12. i.e. better 3D graphics. IOTW,
play the latest games.

This was added thanks to one of the cites by another person.
Thanks.

- Scale text and GUI up to 200%. e.g. for 4K+ monitors.

Hmmmmmmmmm...... is this just a gimmick or is it really useful?
If the Win10 scaling maximum is 200%, what was the Win7 scaling max?

- Run consoles in full screen mode. But still in graphics video mode,
though.

I don't understand this.
But I'll add it as others might.

- Run "app" applications. i.e. those from Windows Store.

Windows 7 can't do this?
If so, then it's probably a good deal for some people.

- Use Microsoft Edge web browser.

I think the courts already separated the browser from the OS.
So this is not something of any use to anyone.
Nor is the Edge browser generally considered all that functional.


I only need the last one, though...

Sorry I wrote what I did above about Edge.

But the browser is not part of the OS (according to the courts).
It's just an app that happens to only run on Windows 10.

Here's the updated list with everyone's comments added.
Thanks.

1. The subscription OS often updates
2. Touch screen OS
3. DirectX 12 in the OS
4. Access more ram than the 64-bit Win7 can
5. Scale text & GUI to 200% (what was the Win7 limit?)
6. Console runs in full-screen mode (need better explanation)
7. Windows Store apps (these don't run on Win7?)
8. ?
9. ?
10. ?

The question is what is inherently a functionality in Win10 (the OS) that
isn't in WinXP or Win7 that is useful to you, as a user?

In news
Don't hold your breath though.

I apologize that I had to say the truth about the articles.
I'm sorry.

There was one item that was useful in those two articles, so it has been
added - for which I appreciate your help.

Anyway, to stay on topic, here's the current summary given the answers so
far.

1. The subscription OS often updates
2. Touch screen OS
3. DirectX 12 in the OS
4. Access more ram than the 64-bit Win7 can
5. Scale text & GUI to 200% (what was the Win7 limit?)
6. Console runs in full-screen mode (need better explanation)
7. Windows Store apps (these don't run on Win7?)
8. ?
9. ?
10. ?

The question is what is inherently a functionality in Win10 (the OS) that
isn't in WinXP or Win7 that is useful to you, as a user?

In , JJ
wrote:

MKV support is not provided by the OS. It's provided by the Windows Media
Foundation library (WMF). It's the main multimedia library for the Windows
OS, and it's required by Windows Media Player and Windows Media Center, but
WMF is not required by the system. It's actually separate from the system,
and it can be removed entirely without fatally crippling the system. Unlike
MSIE where its libraries has been heavily used by the system.

Thanks for confirming that the MKV support was bull**** where that article
was so chock full of mindless marketing bull**** that one has to wonder who
reads that useless crap.

The actual apps are not part of this question since we're only asking what
people can do with the Win10 OS that they can't already do in wither the
WinXP or Win7 OS.

But to cover apps, I've never used the windows media player in my entire
life, and I've been on Windows as long as anyone here has (just like I
don't use Internet Explorer).

I use VLC and Media Player Classic plus the KLite Codec Packs.
And I've never had a problem (that I can recall) playing MKV container
files.

So that article was complete bull****, notwistanding the "command prompt"
and "Spartan Browser" and "snap assist" bull****. I can't believe that
article even exists, since it seems like it was autogenerated by a bull****
marketing spewer.

What i was asking for wasn't mindless marketing bull****.

I'm asking a simple question that only a real user would know answers to.

The question is what is inherently a functionality in Win10 (the OS) that
isn't in WinXP or Win7 that is useful to you, as a user?

In news wrote:

| 4. Cascaded menus (but this can be fudged on the newer operating systems)

?? Have I missed something? Start Menu and
program menus cascade on Win98.

Oooooooooops. This was my bad.

Forgive me Mayayana. I goofed on the cascaded menus.
That's lost functionality.

My brain did a thinko.

Bob J Jones wrote:
What can you do on Windows 10 that you can't do on Windows XP or Windows 7?

Stated more clearly, what FUNCTIONALITY is of importance to you, that you
do on Windows 10 by virtue of the operating system alone?

If you have a Kaby Lake, 6th gen Xeon, or a Ryzen then there will be no
win7 functionality without a hack that most people would not want to attempt.

Bob J Jones wrote:
In , JJ
wrote:

- Use larger RAM. i.e. the physical memory.

- Use new features/functions of DirectX v12. i.e. better 3D graphics. IOTW,
play the latest games.

- Scale text and GUI up to 200%. e.g. for 4K+ monitors.

- Run consoles in full screen mode. But still in graphics video mode,
though.

- Run "app" applications. i.e. those from Windows Store.

- Use Microsoft Edge web browser.

I only need the last one, though...

Thanks for that input.

Some of this is good, some generally accepted as crap.
So let's go down the list to pull out the goodies!

- Use larger RAM. i.e. the physical memory.'

This is likely good if it's true.
Can 64-bit Win10 use more ram than 64-bit Win7?

- Use new features/functions of DirectX v12. i.e. better 3D graphics. IOTW,
play the latest games.

This was added thanks to one of the cites by another person.
Thanks.

- Scale text and GUI up to 200%. e.g. for 4K+ monitors.

Hmmmmmmmmm...... is this just a gimmick or is it really useful?
If the Win10 scaling maximum is 200%, what was the Win7 scaling max?

- Run consoles in full screen mode. But still in graphics video mode,
though.

I don't understand this.
But I'll add it as others might.

- Run "app" applications. i.e. those from Windows Store.

Windows 7 can't do this?
If so, then it's probably a good deal for some people.

- Use Microsoft Edge web browser.

I think the courts already separated the browser from the OS.
So this is not something of any use to anyone.
Nor is the Edge browser generally considered all that functional.

I only need the last one, though...

Sorry I wrote what I did above about Edge.

But the browser is not part of the OS (according to the courts).
It's just an app that happens to only run on Windows 10.

Here's the updated list with everyone's comments added.
Thanks.

1. The subscription OS often updates
2. Touch screen OS
3. DirectX 12 in the OS
4. Access more ram than the 64-bit Win7 can
5. Scale text & GUI to 200% (what was the Win7 limit?)
6. Console runs in full-screen mode (need better explanation)
7. Windows Store apps (these don't run on Win7?)
8. ?
9. ?
10. ?

The question is what is inherently a functionality in Win10 (the OS) that
isn't in WinXP or Win7 that is useful to you, as a user?

The graphics scaling feature might also be referred
to as "HiDPI" support. Even applications have to support
aspects of it though. I mean, modern browsers cannot
even figure out how big my screen is, when delivering
video (causing the video window to be wider than the
browser window). And that's on an ordinary screen,
not an Apple monitor.

https://blogs.windows.com/buildingap...eators-update/

I hadn't heard about MKV support. The one I'd heard about
(and briefly tested) was FLAC support. But I don't have
any really good A/B FLAC samples for comparative listening.
(All I could find is some "scratchy" orchestral recordings.)
Some people apparently keep their music collections in
that format.

Paul

On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 03:45:36 +0000 (UTC), Bob J Jones wrote:

This is likely good if it's true.
Can 64-bit Win10 use more ram than 64-bit Win7?

All 64-bit editions of Windows:
Windows XP and Vista can use RAM up to 128GB only.
Windows 7 = 192GB.
Windows 8 = 512GB.
Windows 10 = 2TB.

Sauces:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Window...ons#Advantages
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Window...mparison_chart
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Window...mparison_chart
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Window...mparison_chart
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Window...mparison_chart

- Scale text and GUI up to 200%. e.g. for 4K+ monitors.

Hmmmmmmmmm...... is this just a gimmick or is it really useful?
If the Win10 scaling maximum is 200%, what was the Win7 scaling max?

Older Windows can only scale up to 150%.

I don't use it either, but this feature can only be done from the system. It
can't be done from third party software.

- Run consoles in full screen mode. But still in graphics video mode,
though.

I don't understand this.
But I'll add it as others might.

Consoles are text based window such as the Command Prompt. In full screen
mode, the window will be maximized without any window titlebar or border -
just like the old DOS, or *nix without GUI. If you're on 32-bit Windows,
press ALT+ENTER to toggle full screen. Full screen mode is not available on
64-bit Windows until Windows 10.

- Run "app" applications. i.e. those from Windows Store.

Windows 7 can't do this?
If so, then it's probably a good deal for some people.

No. It requires a library which is only available in Windows 8+. The library
can not be migrated into older Windows, and there's no emulator or wrapper
or workaround to run "app" on system older than Windows 8.

- Use Microsoft Edge web browser.

I think the courts already separated the browser from the OS.
So this is not something of any use to anyone.
Nor is the Edge browser generally considered all that functional.

I only need the last one, though...

Sorry I wrote what I did above about Edge.

But the browser is not part of the OS (according to the courts).
It's just an app that happens to only run on Windows 10.

Yes, it's not for everyone, and it's not part of the system. The ones who
actually need it would be web developers. Edge is like DirectX 12. It's not
available for, or runnable in older Windows versions. It just happen to run
only in Windows 10.


Here's the updated list with everyone's comments added.
Thanks.

1. The subscription OS often updates
2. Touch screen OS
3. DirectX 12 in the OS
4. Access more ram than the 64-bit Win7 can
5. Scale text & GUI to 200% (what was the Win7 limit?)
6. Console runs in full-screen mode (need better explanation)
7. Windows Store apps (these don't run on Win7?)
8. ?
9. ?
10. ?

The question is what is inherently a functionality in Win10 (the OS) that
isn't in WinXP or Win7 that is useful to you, as a user?

On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 03:54:27 +0000 (UTC), Bob J Jones wrote:

The question is what is inherently a functionality in Win10 (the OS) that
isn't in WinXP or Win7 that is useful to you, as a user?

Me as a user? None.
I only need the Edge browser because it's me as a software developer.
But as a consumer, none. Because I don't use Edge for my internet surfing.

On Sun, 29 Apr 2018 23:00:24 -0500, Paul in Houston TX wrote:

Bob J Jones wrote:
What can you do on Windows 10 that you can't do on Windows XP or Windows 7?

Stated more clearly, what FUNCTIONALITY is of importance to you, that you
do on Windows 10 by virtue of the operating system alone?

If you have a Kaby Lake, 6th gen Xeon, or a Ryzen then there will be no
win7 functionality without a hack that most people would not want to attempt.

That's more like a bug of old OS, than new OS feature. There isn't any
patch/update, so the only workaround is to hack it - where technically, both
patch/update and hack, do the same thing. It's just a matter of official and
unofficial, thoroughly tested or not, and was done by professional or not.

I'm guessing that Windows 10 isn't really required to use those CPUs.
Windows 8 or 8.1 could be usable for those CPUs.

JJ wrote:
On Sun, 29 Apr 2018 23:00:24 -0500, Paul in Houston TX wrote:

Bob J Jones wrote:
What can you do on Windows 10 that you can't do on Windows XP or Windows 7?

Stated more clearly, what FUNCTIONALITY is of importance to you, that you
do on Windows 10 by virtue of the operating system alone?

If you have a Kaby Lake, 6th gen Xeon, or a Ryzen then there will be no
win7 functionality without a hack that most people would not want to attempt.

That's more like a bug of old OS, than new OS feature. There isn't any
patch/update, so the only workaround is to hack it - where technically, both
patch/update and hack, do the same thing. It's just a matter of official and
unofficial, thoroughly tested or not, and was done by professional or not.

I'm guessing that Windows 10 isn't really required to use those CPUs.
Windows 8 or 8.1 could be usable for those CPUs.

It was designed that way. There is also a hack to get most w10 updates.

JJ wrote:
On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 03:45:36 +0000 (UTC), Bob J Jones wrote:
This is likely good if it's true.
Can 64-bit Win10 use more ram than 64-bit Win7?

All 64-bit editions of Windows:
Windows XP and Vista can use RAM up to 128GB only.
Windows 7 = 192GB.
Windows 8 = 512GB.
Windows 10 = 2TB.

What's wrong with this, is a lack of large page support.

Who cares if you have 2TB of RAM, if every access to it,
takes granular page table walks (4K pages). This does
affect application speed, for anything that might have
actually taken advantage of 2TB of RAM. Imagine how
long it would take to even initialize that much RAM
(especially if some poorly crafted boot code in Windows 10
has a memory size dependency).

There are a few issues like that, which the tech wizards
at Microsoft aren't interested in fixing.

1) Large pages for consumer versions (when large
amounts of RAM are present). At least leave a working
registry entry so we can play with it if we want.
If mixing page sizes is a runtime disaster, we can
just turn it off again. (I want this for my RAMDisk,
which uses most of my excess RAM. The RAMDisk is
effectively a static allocation at startup.)

Many times we've been promised large pages, but
it... just... doesn't... work.

2) Adjusting Interrupt Limiter for whizzy new hardware.
(It's possible WinXP-era limits are still in place.)
The limit used to be around the 10K to 15K per second
range or so. My SSD can probably do around 85K IOPS.

3) Slug-slow NTFS stack. Fix it.

4) Explorer handling of large folders. (If only it
was as good as the handling "dir" manages in
Command Prompt! "Dir" on large folders is amazing!!!)

So while in 2018, we can have Chocolate Malted Poo Emojis,
we can't have improvements that actually count for
something. Why buy an 8700K, if it's only held back ?
Why buy NVMe storage ? All the efforts of hardware
companies are just wasted.

Paul

On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 01:28:50 -0400, Paul wrote:

JJ wrote:
On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 03:45:36 +0000 (UTC), Bob J Jones wrote:
This is likely good if it's true.
Can 64-bit Win10 use more ram than 64-bit Win7?

All 64-bit editions of Windows:
Windows XP and Vista can use RAM up to 128GB only.
Windows 7 = 192GB.
Windows 8 = 512GB.
Windows 10 = 2TB.

What's wrong with this, is a lack of large page support.

Who cares if you have 2TB of RAM, if every access to it,
takes granular page table walks (4K pages). This does
affect application speed, for anything that might have
actually taken advantage of 2TB of RAM. Imagine how
long it would take to even initialize that much RAM
(especially if some poorly crafted boot code in Windows 10
has a memory size dependency).

There are a few issues like that, which the tech wizards
at Microsoft aren't interested in fixing.

1) Large pages for consumer versions (when large
amounts of RAM are present). At least leave a working
registry entry so we can play with it if we want.
If mixing page sizes is a runtime disaster, we can
just turn it off again. (I want this for my RAMDisk,
which uses most of my excess RAM. The RAMDisk is
effectively a static allocation at startup.)

Many times we've been promised large pages, but
it... just... doesn't... work.

2) Adjusting Interrupt Limiter for whizzy new hardware.
(It's possible WinXP-era limits are still in place.)
The limit used to be around the 10K to 15K per second
range or so. My SSD can probably do around 85K IOPS.

3) Slug-slow NTFS stack. Fix it.

4) Explorer handling of large folders. (If only it
was as good as the handling "dir" manages in
Command Prompt! "Dir" on large folders is amazing!!!)

So while in 2018, we can have Chocolate Malted Poo Emojis,
we can't have improvements that actually count for
something. Why buy an 8700K, if it's only held back ?
Why buy NVMe storage ? All the efforts of hardware
companies are just wasted.

Paul

Well said. Or... complained.

If they aren't fixed, even on Windows 10, then there would be no difference
on having Windows 10.

Also... I suspect that the RAM limit is just a business strategy. It's
64-bit for crying out loud. It's not difficult or complicating to increase
the page table.

Explorer's major slowdown is due to its need to display the icon, and
optionaly the file type.

On 4/29/2018 10:40 PM, Rene Lamontagne wrote:
On 04/29/2018 4:28 PM, mike wrote:
On 4/29/2018 1:56 PM, Bob J Jones wrote:
What can you do on Windows 10 that you can't do on Windows XP or
Windows 7?

1) buy a new computer.
Joe average is unwilling to jump thru hoops to get a lesser OS on his
new computer.
2) stay connected.
Society is caught in an endless loop.Â* Desire to (re)broadcast every
thought of OTHER people drives software to do that which
drives the desire to use it which...
3) stay up to date.
Eventually, support for older OS's is no longer supported.
Move on or get left behind.Â* Nobody wants that...

You're asking the wrong people.
Anybody reading this already has the information required to do whatever
they want to do.
For the vast majority of computer owners, it makes no difference at all.
They take whatever MS offers and they get on with posting cat pictures.
Your opinions make no difference to anybody.
Microsoft will continue to do whatever makes money for microsoft.
What we can or can't do makes no difference to anybody.Â* The list
provides no new options to anyone.

Stated another way,
What are you gonna do with the list when you compile it?

Stated more clearly, what FUNCTIONALITY is of importance to you, that
you
do on Windows 10 by virtue of the operating system alone?

There are already obvious things, so let's get them out of the way
first.

What top-ten FUNCTIONALITY is on Windows 10 related directly to the OS?
1. 64-bit (I say it 1st only because others will but it isn't OS
related)
2. Subscriptions & updates (if you want them - I don't - but some do)
3. Support (but that's a marketing decision - not technical
functionality)
4. Cascaded menus (but this can be fudged on the newer operating
systems)
5. ?
6. ?
7. ?
8. ?
9. ?
10. ?

Please note that this thread is asking for technical functionality
(due to
the operation system alone!) that is on Windows 10 that is just not
available on the earlier versions - it's not asking about Win10 gripes.

Specifically this is not a thread about what you hate about Windows 10,
since we all know that list is a mile long already.

What top-ten FUNCTIONALITY can you do on Windows 10 that you just
can't do
on Windows XP or Windows 7 (that is related directly to the OS)?

This TECHNICAL thread is not meant as a gripe thread about Windows 10!
Good luck with that...


Windows 10 keeps this newsgroup alive.Â* :-)

Rene


With refugees from the Hall of the Mountain King.