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  #16  
Old August 29th 15, 02:45 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,alt.usenet.offline-reader.forte-agent,comp.mail.eudora.ms-windows
No_Name
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5
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In microsoft.public.windowsxp.general, on Fri, 28 Aug 2015 09:10:57
+0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote:

In message ,
writes:
In comp.mail.eudora.ms-windows, on Tue, 25 Aug 2015 04:12:05 -0500,
VanguardLH wrote:

[]
I'm surprised your newsreader, Forte Agent, even for that ancient 1.93
version, would let you to submit to a newsgroup that does not exist on
the server to which you submitted your article. A good newsreader would
alert you that the newsgroup(s) was(were) not available.


I don't think it does that.


Maybe I shoudl have said "No, it doesn't do that." Then JP would not
have suggested a test. The whole question of saying I think or I
don't think instead of I know would make a good topic of conversation.

That would be easy to check: start a new post to a non-existent (on the
server[s] you use, anyway) 'group, and see what happens when you post it
(if not earlier). You could also try one to two 'groups, one invalid and
one valid (but use one of the test 'groups!); perhaps try two such
posts, with the two 'groups in different orders, to see if it matters
which is specified first.


I think the original post in this thread makes it clear that that is the
way it works. Not to mention a dozen other times this has happened to
me over the past 20 years.
Ads
  #17  
Old August 29th 15, 10:53 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,alt.usenet.offline-reader.forte-agent,comp.mail.eudora.ms-windows
VanguardLH[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,881
Default Text suddently moves tot he right margine, won't move back.

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

gonzo wrote:

VanguardLH wrote:

I'm surprised your newsreader, Forte Agent, even for that ancient
1.93 version, would let you to submit to a newsgroup that does not
exist on the server to which you submitted your article. A good
newsreader would alert you that the newsgroup(s) was(were) not
available.


I don't think it does that.


That would be easy to check: start a new post to a non-existent (on
the server[s] you use, anyway) 'group, and see what happens when you
post it (if not earlier). You could also try one to two 'groups, one
invalid and one valid (but use one of the test 'groups!); perhaps try
two such posts, with the two 'groups in different orders, to see if
it matters which is specified first.


Looks like gonzo already did that test. While not intentional, he did
originally specify the "forte-agen" newsgroup which does not exist, even
at his Usenet provider (Eternal-September).

According to Ralph Fox's reply, some NNTP servers do not return an error
if *any* of the newsgroups are valid in the Newsgroups header. That
means, as with the OP's article, his server (Eternal-September) accepted
an invalid newsgroup because at least one was valid: 2 were valid, 1 was
valid but unintentional, and 1 was invalid.

That sucks (the server not issuing an error). It means users may post
without knowing they specified an invalid or non-existing newsgroup on
the server they use for submission. In the case of an invalid
newsgroup, the poster may not understand why their posts are not showing
up in the newsgroup they meant to specify. They get no feedback from
the server on what should have been reported as an error. Their post
goes into a wrong newsgroup or vaporizes in the bit bucket.

Looks like something to discuss in the Eternal-September newsgroup
(eternal-september.support but only available on the ES server) to see
if Wolfgang aka Ray Banana will change the config of his NNTP server to
return an error on [an attempt to] submit to a non-existing newsgroup.
It would help users realize when they misspelled a newsgroup or, in this
case, used a comma instead of a period in the newsgroup name (on the
assumption that splitting up a newsgroup name would result in one, or
more, of the actually specified newsgroups did not exist). I do not use
ES anymore so any participation by me there would be "others say so".
  #18  
Old August 29th 15, 11:43 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,alt.usenet.offline-reader.forte-agent,comp.mail.eudora.ms-windows
Ralph Fox
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 474
Default Text suddently moves tot he right margine, won't move back.

On Sat, 29 Aug 2015 16:53:43 -0500, VanguardLH wrote:

According to Ralph Fox's reply, some NNTP servers do not return an error
if *any* of the newsgroups are valid in the Newsgroups header. That
means, as with the OP's article, his server (Eternal-September) accepted
an invalid newsgroup because at least one was valid: 2 were valid, 1 was
valid but unintentional, and 1 was invalid.

That sucks (the server not issuing an error). It means users may post
without knowing they specified an invalid or non-existing newsgroup on
the server they use for submission. In the case of an invalid
newsgroup, the poster may not understand why their posts are not showing
up in the newsgroup they meant to specify. They get no feedback from
the server on what should have been reported as an error. Their post
goes into a wrong newsgroup or vaporizes in the bit bucket.



There are good reasons for having it this way, because different news
servers do NOT all carry the same newsgroups.


Say Andy uses news.alpha.aq. Andy cross-posts a message to
alt.investment.scams, alt.investment.ponzi, and alt.investment.suckers.
Andy adds a note, "Please leave all 3 newsgroups so I don't have to
read this thread in 3 places."

Now Bill uses news.beta.aq. Bill reads Andy's message in
alt.investment.scams. Bill's news server news.beta.aq does not carry
the other two groups. Bill posts a follow-up. If Bill's news server
did what you are asking for, then Bill's reply would be rejected unless
Bill trimmed the newsgroup list to post to only the one group.


To summarise: the group may be valid and exist, just that the poster's
own server does not carry it.


A better solution would be a (non-fatal) client-side warning which the
poster can bypass if they want.



Looks like something to discuss in the Eternal-September newsgroup
(eternal-september.support but only available on the ES server) to see
if Wolfgang aka Ray Banana will change the config of his NNTP server to
return an error on [an attempt to] submit to a non-existing newsgroup.
It would help users realize when they misspelled a newsgroup or, in this
case, used a comma instead of a period in the newsgroup name (on the
assumption that splitting up a newsgroup name would result in one, or
more, of the actually specified newsgroups did not exist). I do not use
ES anymore so any participation by me there would be "others say so".



--
Kind regards
Ralph
  #19  
Old August 30th 15, 05:50 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,alt.usenet.offline-reader.forte-agent,comp.mail.eudora.ms-windows
VanguardLH[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,881
Default Text suddently moves tot he right margine, won't move back.

Ralph Fox wrote:

On Sat, 29 Aug 2015 16:53:43 -0500, VanguardLH wrote:

According to Ralph Fox's reply, some NNTP servers do not return an error
if *any* of the newsgroups are valid in the Newsgroups header. That
means, as with the OP's article, his server (Eternal-September) accepted
an invalid newsgroup because at least one was valid: 2 were valid, 1 was
valid but unintentional, and 1 was invalid.

That sucks (the server not issuing an error). It means users may post
without knowing they specified an invalid or non-existing newsgroup on
the server they use for submission. In the case of an invalid
newsgroup, the poster may not understand why their posts are not showing
up in the newsgroup they meant to specify. They get no feedback from
the server on what should have been reported as an error. Their post
goes into a wrong newsgroup or vaporizes in the bit bucket.


There are good reasons for having it this way, because different news
servers do NOT all carry the same newsgroups.


But you are not allowed to cross-post between servers, anyway. A
submission goes to only one NNTP server for *all* newsgroups specified
in the Newsgroups header. You don't post to some newsgroups on one
server and then post for some other newsgroup on another server for the
same article. You submit one article to one server. Peering works to
get that article to other servers but each search has its own article
number in its articles database. The article number on one server is
not the same article number on a different server despite the peering.

So users that are trying to post to newsgroups on server 1 cannot
simultaneously post to a different server. If their client emulates
that function, it is submitting two independent articles to 2 different
servers which means those servers will have to handle collisions on the
message ID.

If your server to which you submit doesn't carry a newsgroup, it should
alert you. Then you submit your then multi-posted article to the
problematic newsgroup on a different server. There is *no*
cross-posting between servers.

Say Andy uses news.alpha.aq. Andy cross-posts a message to
alt.investment.scams, alt.investment.ponzi, and alt.investment.suckers.
Andy adds a note, "Please leave all 3 newsgroups so I don't have to
read this thread in 3 places."

Now Bill uses news.beta.aq. Bill reads Andy's message in
alt.investment.scams. Bill's news server news.beta.aq does not carry
the other two groups. Bill posts a follow-up. If Bill's news server
did what you are asking for, then Bill's reply would be rejected unless
Bill trimmed the newsgroup list to post to only the one group.


Meanwhile Bill would think his reply got cross-posted to the other 2
newsgroups when it did NOT. So the server lied to him by issuing no
error. Bill doesn't know his reply ONLY went to 1 newsgroup, not to all
3 newsgroups. The error from the server will have the client tell Bill
that he cannot post to 2 of the newsgroups so, yes, he nows that his
reply will only go into just 1 newsgroup.

To summarise: the group may be valid and exist, just that the poster's
own server does not carry it.


Again, cross-posting is not possible across servers. So an error in
cross-posting where a newsgroup is invalid on the submission server
should be reported. That way, the poster does know there is something
he cannot do when submitting his post. He will not be able to cross-
post his reply in all the originally specified newsgroups. It is a
limitation (or perhaps even a deliberate restriction) of the server he
choose to use in that it does not carry all the newsgroups.

A better solution would be a (non-fatal) client-side warning which the
poster can bypass if they want.


But that would still require the server return an error when attempting
to submit an article whose Newsgroups header specifies non-existing
newsgroups on the submission server. In fact, as I recall, if I try to
cross-post my reply to all newsgroups the parent post specifies in its
Newsgroups header (which becomes the Newsgroups header in my reply), my
client does tell me a newsgroup isn't available (but I have to know that
it was specifically on the submission server). Yes, that is a handy
features in the client but it does require the server return an error.

If the server returns no error then the client has nothing to trigger it
to show a prompt about an invalid newsgroup. Something has to tell you
that further action is required. No alert, no reaction.
  #20  
Old August 30th 15, 10:18 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,alt.usenet.offline-reader.forte-agent,comp.mail.eudora.ms-windows
Ralph Fox
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 474
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On Sat, 29 Aug 2015 23:50:26 -0500, VanguardLH wrote:

Ralph Fox wrote:

On Sat, 29 Aug 2015 16:53:43 -0500, VanguardLH wrote:

According to Ralph Fox's reply, some NNTP servers do not return an error
if *any* of the newsgroups are valid in the Newsgroups header. That
means, as with the OP's article, his server (Eternal-September) accepted
an invalid newsgroup because at least one was valid: 2 were valid, 1 was
valid but unintentional, and 1 was invalid.

That sucks (the server not issuing an error). It means users may post
without knowing they specified an invalid or non-existing newsgroup on
the server they use for submission. In the case of an invalid
newsgroup, the poster may not understand why their posts are not showing
up in the newsgroup they meant to specify. They get no feedback from
the server on what should have been reported as an error. Their post
goes into a wrong newsgroup or vaporizes in the bit bucket.


There are good reasons for having it this way, because different news
servers do NOT all carry the same newsgroups.


But you are not allowed to cross-post between servers, anyway. A
submission goes to only one NNTP server for *all* newsgroups specified
in the Newsgroups header. You don't post to some newsgroups on one
server and then post for some other newsgroup on another server for the
same article.



We are not talking about posting to two servers. We are talking about
posting to _one_ server, with a cross-post to newsgroups which that
server does not carry.


You submit one article to one server.


We all know that.

Peering works to
get that article to other servers but each search has its own article
number in its articles database. The article number on one server is
not the same article number on a different server despite the peering.



We all know that each server has its own article numbers.

Peering works so that if the first news server does not carry all of the
crosspost newsgroups but a second news server does carry all crosspost
newsgroups, then when the article gets to the second news server the
article will appear on the second news server in all of the crosspost
newsgroups.


So users that are trying to post to newsgroups on server 1 cannot
simultaneously post to a different server. If their client emulates
that function, it is submitting two independent articles to 2 different
servers which means those servers will have to handle collisions on the
message ID.



Once again, we are not talking about posting to two servers. We are
talking about posting to _one_ server, with a cross-post to newsgroups
which that server does not carry -- but which some other servers do
carry.


If your server to which you submit doesn't carry a newsgroup, it should
alert you. Then you submit your then multi-posted article to the
problematic newsgroup on a different server. There is *no*
cross-posting between servers.

Say Andy uses news.alpha.aq. Andy cross-posts a message to
alt.investment.scams, alt.investment.ponzi, and alt.investment.suckers.
Andy adds a note, "Please leave all 3 newsgroups so I don't have to
read this thread in 3 places."

Now Bill uses news.beta.aq. Bill reads Andy's message in
alt.investment.scams. Bill's news server news.beta.aq does not carry
the other two groups. Bill posts a follow-up. If Bill's news server
did what you are asking for, then Bill's reply would be rejected unless
Bill trimmed the newsgroup list to post to only the one group.


Meanwhile Bill would think his reply got cross-posted to the other 2
newsgroups when it did NOT. So the server lied to him by issuing no
error. Bill doesn't know his reply ONLY went to 1 newsgroup, not to all
3 newsgroups. The error from the server will have the client tell Bill
that he cannot post to 2 of the newsgroups so, yes, he nows that his
reply will only go into just 1 newsgroup.



Bill's reply will go into all 3 newsgroups on Andy's news server
news.alpha.aq. Even though Bill's reply goes into just 1
newsgroup on Bill's news server news.beta.aq.

The number of newsgroups which Bill's reply goes into is NOT the same
all news servers. It would be a mistake for someone to think that
the number of newsgroups was the same.


1. As you can see from Gonzo's original post, Gonzo's news server
does NOT modify the "Newsgroups:" header to remove newsgroups
which it (the news server) does not carry.

When Bill's reply propagates to Andy's news server, the
"Newsgroups:" header will still have all three newsgroups
alt.investment.scams, alt.investment.ponzi, and alt.investment.suckers.


2. As we all already know, each news server allocates its own
article numbers.

When Bill's reply gets to Andy's news server, Andy's news
server will go through the "Newsgroups:" header, allocate its
own article numbers for each of the crosspost newsgroups which
Andy's news server carries, and put the reply in those newsgroups
on Andy's news server.

As Andy's news server carries all three crosspost newsgroups, Bill's
reply will go into 3 groups on Andy's news server. Even though
Bill's reply went into just 1 group on Bill's news server.


3. Andy is able to read Bill's reply in alt.investment.suckers.
Even though Bill's news server does not carry alt.investment.suckers
and Bill himself cannot read his own reply in alt.investment.suckers.


To summarise: the group may be valid and exist, just that the poster's
own server does not carry it.


Again, cross-posting is not possible across servers.



For the third or fourth time, we are not talking about cross-posting
across servers.

We are talking about:
* posting to 1 (one) news server
* with a cross-post to newsgroups which that server does not carry
* so that if and when the article propagates to a second news server
which does carry those newsgroups, the second server will put the
article in those newsgroups on the second server.


So an error in
cross-posting where a newsgroup is invalid on the submission server
should be reported. That way, the poster does know there is something
he cannot do when submitting his post. He will not be able to cross-
post his reply in all the originally specified newsgroups. It is a
limitation (or perhaps even a deliberate restriction) of the server he
choose to use in that it does not carry all the newsgroups.



Bill _CAN_ submit an article which will appear to Andy on Andy's news
server in alt.investment.suckers.

Even though Bill posts to just 1 news server news.beta.aq which does
not carry alt.investment.suckers. The cross-post to alt.investment.scams,
carries by all news servers, will allow Bill's reply to propagate from
Bill's news server to Andy's news server.


A better solution would be a (non-fatal) client-side warning which the
poster can bypass if they want.


But that would still require the server return an error when attempting
to submit an article whose Newsgroups header specifies non-existing
newsgroups on the submission server.



Not so. Most newsreader clients keep their own copy of the news server's
newsgroups list. The newsreader client just needs to check its own copy
of the list.


In fact, as I recall, if I try to
cross-post my reply to all newsgroups the parent post specifies in its
Newsgroups header (which becomes the Newsgroups header in my reply), my
client does tell me a newsgroup isn't available (but I have to know that
it was specifically on the submission server). Yes, that is a handy
features in the client but it does require the server return an error.



It does not require that the server return an error. It just requires
the client to have its own copy of the server's newsgroups list.


If the server returns no error then the client has nothing to trigger it
to show a prompt about an invalid newsgroup. Something has to tell you
that further action is required. No alert, no reaction.



See above.


--
Kind regards
Ralph
  #21  
Old August 30th 15, 11:58 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,alt.usenet.offline-reader.forte-agent,comp.mail.eudora.ms-windows
No_Name
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1
Default Text suddently moves tot he right margine, won't move back.

In comp.mail.eudora.ms-windows, on Tue, 25 Aug 2015 23:32:19 -0500,
VanguardLH wrote:

gonzo wrote:

At some time, there was a small semi-transparent area -- I guess it's
called the Language Bar but that box, to the left of the Key Settings
box, is greyed out (not a problem). . ( It's the size of the Systray
Time, and it was at the bottom, then later at the top of the screen,
which I could click on and change languages, but that went away, maybe
when I changed the keys to None. )


If you are using only one language then why show the Language Bar? The


I had intended to use more than one language. I was trying to write
Happy Birthday in Russian, in Agent, but I couldn't get it to work.

MS article mentioned tells how to disable Text Services. One of the
settings for Language bar is to turn it off (uncheck "Show the Language
bar on the desktop").

It's been way too long since I last used Windows XP and monkeyed around
with the keyboard and language settings. As I recall, you could have
different languages and key mappings assigned to different [app]
windows. You could have Spanish assigned to one window and English to a
different one. You might have to open the affected apps and make sure
English language and keyboard mapping is selected when those apps
windows are opened AND they have focus. With the Language Bar loaded
and visible (or just with its tray icon), go into each app by clicking
in its window and see which language is displayed in the Language Bar or
"EN" in the tray icon.


There is no language bar now, but maybe after I make the changes at the
bottom there will be. Yes, after I restarted, it showed up.

What language is selected within Forte Agent. Is there an Options -
General Preferences - Languages dialog with Usenet and E-mail Text
settings?


Enlish (American). For both. No separate settings in V1.93.

Russian is in the list but it hasn't been checked for at least a year.

Did you install software with your keyboard?


It's a Microsoft Multimedia keyboard, but i bought it used and it
probably didn't come with software. However I might have found it
online (or in windowsXP?) and installed it.


I went to:Control Panel/Regional and Language/Languages/Details
/Advanced and unchecked the "Turn off advanced text services"**, and my
Language Bar button is no longer greyed out, But I have to restart for
this all to take effect. -- I just did that. Haven't had time to see
the effects, except that the Language Bar is at the top of the screen.

**I don't remember ever checking this, buit maybe I did.
  #22  
Old August 31st 15, 07:49 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,alt.usenet.offline-reader.forte-agent,comp.mail.eudora.ms-windows
Ralph Fox
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 474
Default Text suddently moves tot he right margine, won't move back.

On Sun, 30 Aug 2015 06:58:09 -0400, ne wrote:

In comp.mail.eudora.ms-windows, on Tue, 25 Aug 2015 23:32:19 -0500,
VanguardLH wrote:


If you are using only one language then why show the Language Bar? The


I had intended to use more than one language. I was trying to write
Happy Birthday in Russian, in Agent, but I couldn't get it to work.



An example --- "ÐŸÐ¾Ð·Ð´Ñ€Ð°Ð²Ð»ÐµÐ½Ð¸Ñ Ñ Ð´Ð½ÐµÐ¼ рождениÑ"

To see the Russian above as Russian, not as question marks, you
may need to use Agent 1.93's "Message Language" and set the
message's language to Russian.


To write in Russian...

Agent: Agent's language and font settings must be set up correctly
for Russian, with the fonts for language "Russian" having font
script = "Cyrillic".

Windows: You really will need to have either the language bar or
the language icon in the tray.


A. To type Russian into Agent

1. Change the compose window's language to Russian.
In Agent 1.93: Message Properties (near top LH corner)
2. While in Agent, change the language bar to Russian. In Windows,
Russian must have a Russian keyboard setting associated.
3. Type Russian on the Russian keyboard.

If you use the Russian keyboard setting that comes with Windows,
you really will need a keyboard marked with Russian letters.
Russian letters are not in the same place on the keyboard as the
equivalent Roman letters.

B. To copy and paste Russian into Agent

1. Change the compose window's language to Russian.
In Agent 1.93: Message Properties (near top LH corner)
2. Copy the text from wherever it is and paste it into _Notepad_.
3. While in _Notepad_, change the language bar to Russian.
4. Copy the text from Notepad while the Language bar says Russian.
5. Paste the text into Agent while the compose window's language
is Russian.

The above works for putting Russian text into the body of the message.

If you want to put Russian text into the subject line
* In Agent's font settings for language = Russian you will need a check-mark
in the setting "Use the variable-pitch body font for Headers".
* To have Russian subject lines go out correctly, you must also turn on the
setting "Use MIME for non-ASCII headers".
- for a single message: From the composer window, Message Properties


--
Kind regards
Ralph
  #23  
Old August 31st 15, 05:17 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,alt.usenet.offline-reader.forte-agent,comp.mail.eudora.ms-windows
micky[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 926
Default Text suddently moves tot he right margine, won't move back.

In comp.mail.eudora.ms-windows, on Sun, 30 Aug 2015 22:33:20 -0400,
Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:

On Sat, 29 Aug 2015 23:50:26 -0500, VanguardLH declaimed the
following:



But you are not allowed to cross-post between servers, anyway. A
submission goes to only one NNTP server for *all* newsgroups specified
in the Newsgroups header. You don't post to some newsgroups on one
server and then post for some other newsgroup on another server for the
same article. You submit one article to one server. Peering works to
get that article to other servers but each search has its own article
number in its articles database. The article number on one server is
not the same article number on a different server despite the peering.


BTW, I thought this difference in aricle number might cause big problems
when changing from one newsserver to another (because Verizon dropped
its news, without warning of course) but it didn't cause any problem I
could see. Using forte-agent, if it matters.


And those other peer servers MAY HAVE THE OTHER GROUPS, and will link
the message to those groups upon receipt, and thereby propagate to all the
groups, even if the original server did not carry them.


  #24  
Old September 20th 15, 05:18 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,alt.usenet.offline-reader.forte-agent,comp.mail.eudora.ms-windows
No_Name
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5
Default Text suddently moves tot he right margine, won't move back.

In alt.usenet.offline-reader.forte-agent, on Mon, 31 Aug 2015 18:49:34
+1200, Ralph Fox wrote:

On Sun, 30 Aug 2015 06:58:09 -0400, ne wrote:

In comp.mail.eudora.ms-windows, on Tue, 25 Aug 2015 23:32:19 -0500,
VanguardLH wrote:


If you are using only one language then why show the Language Bar? The


I had intended to use more than one language. I was trying to write
Happy Birthday in Russian, in Agent, but I couldn't get it to work.



An example --- "???????????? ? ???? ????????"

To see the Russian above as Russian, not as question marks, you
may need to use Agent 1.93's "Message Language" and set the
message's language to Russian.


Thanks for all this, Ralph. I've Kept the post and read all three
sections and I'm working on getting them to work, but I've been so busy
with other stuff, I'm not done yet.

But I did learn a lot more about why my text is right justified once in
a great while, and that will appear soon in another post in this thread.

signed/ nospam



To write in Russian...

Agent: Agent's language and font settings must be set up correctly
for Russian, with the fonts for language "Russian" having font
script = "Cyrillic".

Windows: You really will need to have either the language bar or
the language icon in the tray.


A. To type Russian into Agent

1. Change the compose window's language to Russian.
In Agent 1.93: Message Properties (near top LH corner)
2. While in Agent, change the language bar to Russian. In Windows,
Russian must have a Russian keyboard setting associated.
3. Type Russian on the Russian keyboard.

If you use the Russian keyboard setting that comes with Windows,
you really will need a keyboard marked with Russian letters.
Russian letters are not in the same place on the keyboard as the
equivalent Roman letters.

B. To copy and paste Russian into Agent

1. Change the compose window's language to Russian.
In Agent 1.93: Message Properties (near top LH corner)
2. Copy the text from wherever it is and paste it into _Notepad_.
3. While in _Notepad_, change the language bar to Russian.
4. Copy the text from Notepad while the Language bar says Russian.
5. Paste the text into Agent while the compose window's language
is Russian.

The above works for putting Russian text into the body of the message.

If you want to put Russian text into the subject line
* In Agent's font settings for language = Russian you will need a check-mark
in the setting "Use the variable-pitch body font for Headers".
* To have Russian subject lines go out correctly, you must also turn on the
setting "Use MIME for non-ASCII headers".
- for a single message: From the composer window, Message Properties


  #25  
Old September 20th 15, 05:47 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,alt.usenet.offline-reader.forte-agent,comp.mail.eudora.ms-windows
No_Name
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5
Default Text suddently moves tot he right margine, won't move back, patial solution.


Mostly Eudora stuff at the top, Agent stuff near the end of the new
text.

All of this is relevant to XP in general, and probably later OSes. At
least when using Agent or Eudora and I"m sure there are other programs
where this matters.

In microsoft.public.windowsxp.general, on Tue, 25 Aug 2015 03:39:33
-0400, wrote:

Sometimes text moves to the right side of a field.

Running XP SP3, Eudora 7.1.0.9, and Agent 1.93.

I have Hebrew, Arabic, and Russian alphabets enabled, the first two you
know are written from right to left, but in an effort to stop this, I
removed key sequences that were usable to change to those alphabets.
(So now I don't know how to change to the right alphabet even when I
want to.) (In Text Services and Input Languages, which comes from
Regional and Language options, which comes from the Control Panel)

This occurs mostly or entirely in two programs, i) ForteAgent and only
in the composition window, at the top, in the Newsgroups field or the
Subject field. And ii) in Eudora, where all of the text in
the body will sometimes become right justified, line by line, that is,
not changing line breaks.


In Eudora, I realize it happens both when I'm editing an incoming email,
which Eudora permits, and when I'm editing a new outgoing email.

Do other email programs permit editing incoming email?

I must have touched certain keys


I finally got this part of this resolved tonight, regarding one of the
two problems in Eudora. All in all, I'd say the whole thing is
resolved.

The default method of changing languages and keyboards is Cntl-Shift (or
left-alt-shfit). Also, Cntl-Tab is the method I use for going trom one
pane to the next WITHIN Eudora. When I'm editing an incoming email in
Eudora, and I click on the pencil in order to do so, Cntl-Tab no longer
does that. The only way out of the edit pane is to X out (Cntl-W) or to
click the pencil again so I'm not editing anymore.

When I forget this, I find myself holding the Shift key down and
pressing Tab over and over. Nothing happens, but when I decide to
change directions, by pushing down right-Shift, that makes Cntl-Shft and
the language or keyboard changes and everything moves to be right
justified.

but I can't find the keys to get the text back to the left.


Doing Cntl-Shift again does nothing, for some reason. But clicking on
Blah-blah-blah, puts things back the way they were. This is true if
the Blah button is in or out. Only one click is needed either way.

But after all this, it turns out that if I close the message, even if I
save it before closing, the text reverts to the left, I think. That's
when editing an incoming email in Eudora. I haven't tried to test this
while writing a new message in Eudora

AGENT 1.93
But I did try it with Agent 1.9 with the insertiion point in the Subject
or Newsgroups fields of a composition window. Cntl-Right-Shift (probably
either Shift ) moves the text to the right side of the window. I
couldn't find a way to move it back. (Cntl-shift again did nothing)
But even if I save it, when I open it again, the text is back at the
left. Even if I've not done another Cntl-shift.

I guess before I was afraid to save the windows when they were like
this, for fear I wouldn't be able to find them again! Oh well.

Does anyone know what the problem is? Or how I stop it from happening
and how I reverse it when it does happen?


So it probably doesn't need reversing because it seems not to be
permanent.

(Please leave all 3 newsgroups so I don't have to read this thread in 3
places.)


I put this because I saw that one person, now 3 people, in
alt.home.repair, have removed newsgroups from the list, leaving only
their own. The groups here are more civilized, so it probably woudln't
have been a problem in the first place.

  #26  
Old September 20th 15, 07:37 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,alt.usenet.offline-reader.forte-agent,comp.mail.eudora.ms-windows
VanguardLH[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,881
Default Text suddently moves tot he right margine, won't move back, patial solution.

nospam wrote:

In Eudora, I realize it [right-justification] happens both when I'm
editing an incoming email, which Eudora permits, and when I'm editing
a new outgoing email.

Do other email programs permit editing incoming email?


Yes, some e-mail programs (I don't use all of them to know if my
experience would qualify the number as many) allow you edit received
e-mails. You must be able to edit all outgoing e-mails; else, you would
never be able to add anything in your reply (the sender would get back a
copy of their e-mail without nothing added which is of no value to
them).

When editing a received e-mail, you are trying to modify a document that
someone else created. If that e-mail was formatted using HTML then you
cannot be sure how that will affect your modifications. You would need
to see the HTML code to know if your additions where, for example,
inside a bolded section of text or a section of text that set to right
justify. You could be editing in the middle of a table (showing no
borders). If you try to insert new text in the old messge, you are
susceptible to whatever formatting effected upon that section of text.
Adding new content to the end of an HTML formatted message usually means
your new text are outside any HTML tags or formatting employed within
the original message.

When you reply to an HTML-formatted e-mail, is there an option to change
to plain-text format? That would remove all HTML formatting. In plain
text mode, you adding new text would be like inserting text in document
opened by Notepad: you would add text to text.

Does your e-mail client allow you to view the raw source of the received
message? That would show if HTML coding were involved. Input
orientation may not be the culprit if you are trying to edit
HTML-formatted e-mails.

Editing received e-mails can run afoul of the HTML coding within them.
For the problem exhibiting itself in your outbound messages, you can
still run afoul of HTML in the original message if you insert your text
within the original message. Also, using bad HTML in your signature can
screw up formatting in a new e-mail message whether a new or reply
message.

See what happens when you keep your added content in a reply to the top
or bottom of an e-mail (don't insert new text within the original
message). See what happens if you disable including a signature.
  #27  
Old September 27th 15, 10:43 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,alt.usenet.offline-reader.forte-agent,comp.mail.eudora.ms-windows
Etal
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 104
Default Text suddently moves tot he right margine, won't move back.

ne wrote:

Ralph Fox wrote:

wrote:

Sometimes text moves to the right side of a field.


My comment are at the bottom.



Running XP SP3, Eudora 7.1.0.9, and Agent 1.93.

I have Hebrew, Arabic, and Russian alphabets enabled, the first two you
know are written from right to left, but in an effort to stop this, I
removed key sequences that were usable to change to those alphabets.
(So now I don't know how to change to the right alphabet even when I
want to.) (In Text Services and Input Languages, which comes from
Regional and Language options, which comes from the Control Panel)

This occurs mostly or entirely in two programs, i) ForteAgent and only
in the composition window, at the top, in the Newsgroups field or the
Subject field. And ii) in Eudora, where all of the text in
the body will sometimes become right justified, line by line, that is,
not changing line breaks.

I must have touched certain keys but I can't find the keys to get the
text back to the left.

Does anyone know what the problem is? Or how I stop it from happening
and how I reverse it when it does happen?


For XP, there are key settings in the Control Panel at
Control Panel Region and Language Options Languages Details Key Settings


Right. The Key Settings are all set to None.

OTOH for Agent 1.93 I would normally expect this behaviour to be


It might be a coincidence that the whole body of an email gets
right-justified in Eudora, maybe once every 2 or 3 months.


I'm reading this thread from 'm.p.windowsxp.general' and don't
see any explanation for the behavior you (the OP) describe.

I sometimes experience this behavior in at least one program,
Notepad, the basic text-editor distributed with all copies of
WinXP, but i think it's occurred for me in other programs as well.

I have no version of Agent or Eudora installed to try out on, but
my reason for posting is i'm thinking that there is an underlying
Windows API that the three programs mentioned above and others
can make use of.

Open Notepad [|Agent|Eudora] type in some text and then using the
keyboard, first hold down [Ctrl] and then press [RShift].
If the text now turned right-justified, to get left-justified
text back use [Ctrl] and then press [LShift]. In Notepad on can
use the context-menu in text-area to manage justification
sidedness, but it doesn't show us the key-combos to use.

For me, these are key-combos that i press inadvertently from time
to time, and it took me a while to figure out what it was i had
done to cause the behavior change. I don't know if there is an
option somewhere to turn this behavior on off off, but i think it
would be desirable.

A probable prerequisite might be that the WinXP optional
component "Install files for complex scripting and right-to-left-
languages" must be installed ... found under "Cpl : Regional and
Language Options : Languages : Supplemental language support"

HTH


--
"Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right.
Here i am stuck in the middle with you."

  #28  
Old September 27th 15, 10:54 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,alt.usenet.offline-reader.forte-agent,comp.mail.eudora.ms-windows
micky[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 926
Default Text suddently moves tot he right margine, won't move back.

In microsoft.public.windowsxp.general, on Sun, 27 Sep 2015 22:43:57
+0100, Etal wrote:

wrote:

Ralph Fox wrote:

wrote:

Sometimes text moves to the right side of a field.


My comment are at the bottom.



Running XP SP3, Eudora 7.1.0.9, and Agent 1.93.

I have Hebrew, Arabic, and Russian alphabets enabled, the first two you
know are written from right to left, but in an effort to stop this, I
removed key sequences that were usable to change to those alphabets.
(So now I don't know how to change to the right alphabet even when I
want to.) (In Text Services and Input Languages, which comes from
Regional and Language options, which comes from the Control Panel)

This occurs mostly or entirely in two programs, i) ForteAgent and only
in the composition window, at the top, in the Newsgroups field or the
Subject field. And ii) in Eudora, where all of the text in
the body will sometimes become right justified, line by line, that is,
not changing line breaks.

I must have touched certain keys but I can't find the keys to get the
text back to the left.

Does anyone know what the problem is? Or how I stop it from happening
and how I reverse it when it does happen?

For XP, there are key settings in the Control Panel at
Control Panel Region and Language Options Languages Details Key Settings


Right. The Key Settings are all set to None.

OTOH for Agent 1.93 I would normally expect this behaviour to be


It might be a coincidence that the whole body of an email gets
right-justified in Eudora, maybe once every 2 or 3 months.


I'm reading this thread from 'm.p.windowsxp.general' and don't
see any explanation for the behavior you (the OP) describe.


I read this whole thread, and I'm sure there was an explanation. The OP
changed his name to
ne and the major answer I just
found at 9/20 at 12:47AM EDTime. Except I think he makes one mistake
where he says Shift when he means Cntl. I'm going to reply to that
post and show where I think the correction should be.

BTW, he said that in Eudora and Agent, both of which I use too, changes
appeared on the screen but were not permanent. When the window was
closed and re-opened, everything was left-justified again!

I sometimes experience this behavior in at least one program,
Notepad, the basic text-editor distributed with all copies of
WinXP, but i think it's occurred for me in other programs as well.

I have no version of Agent or Eudora installed to try out on, but
my reason for posting is i'm thinking that there is an underlying
Windows API that the three programs mentioned above and others
can make use of.

Open Notepad [|Agent|Eudora] type in some text and then using the
keyboard, first hold down [Ctrl] and then press [RShift].
If the text now turned right-justified, to get left-justified
text back use [Ctrl] and then press [LShift]. In Notepad on can
use the context-menu in text-area to manage justification
sidedness, but it doesn't show us the key-combos to use.


The OP thought this had to with having semitic languages installed, and
that the shortcut to change languages and keyboards by default was
Cntl-Shift.

But iiuc you're suggesting this has nothing to do with having another
language, but with basic but non-published shortcuts for left and right
justification. Is it just a coincidence that both situations use
cntl-shift? After some testing, I think it largely is.

I only have one language, English, on this computer.

I opened Notepad and filled it with text. Cntl-left-or-right-Shift had
no effect.

I tried it in Agent, this composition window, with the cursor in the
body and in the subject line, and Cntl-left-or-right-Shift had no
effect.

I opened a composition Window in Eudora and Cntl-left-or-right-Shift had
no effect. However clicking on the standard Eudora left or right
justification button did have the expected effect.

I'm pretty sure if I had a second language that was right-justified, and
which used the same key combination

For me, these are key-combos that i press inadvertently from time
to time,


Yes, me too, by accident.

and it took me a while to figure out what it was i had
done to cause the behavior change. I don't know if there is an
option somewhere to turn this behavior on off off, but i think it
would be desirable.


True, but it's not so bad if one knows what happened and how to undo it!

A probable prerequisite might be that the WinXP optional
component "Install files for complex scripting and right-to-left-
languages" must be installed ... found under "Cpl : Regional and
Language Options : Languages : Supplemental language support"


Well doesn't everyone who installs a semitic language install that? Or
their right to left language gets written left to right, I'll bet, sort
of like thgir ot tfel, daer ot drah yrev.

HTH


Yes, tremendously.

  #29  
Old September 27th 15, 10:56 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,alt.usenet.offline-reader.forte-agent,comp.mail.eudora.ms-windows
micky[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 926
Default Text suddently moves tot he right margine, won't move back, patial solution.

In microsoft.public.windowsxp.general, on Sun, 20 Sep 2015 00:47:59
-0400, ne wrote:


Mostly Eudora stuff at the top, Agent stuff near the end of the new
text.

All of this is relevant to XP in general, and probably later OSes. At
least when using Agent or Eudora and I"m sure there are other programs
where this matters.

In microsoft.public.windowsxp.general, on Tue, 25 Aug 2015 03:39:33
-0400,
wrote:

Sometimes text moves to the right side of a field.

Running XP SP3, Eudora 7.1.0.9, and Agent 1.93.

I have Hebrew, Arabic, and Russian alphabets enabled, the first two you
know are written from right to left, but in an effort to stop this, I
removed key sequences that were usable to change to those alphabets.
(So now I don't know how to change to the right alphabet even when I
want to.) (In Text Services and Input Languages, which comes from
Regional and Language options, which comes from the Control Panel)

This occurs mostly or entirely in two programs, i) ForteAgent and only
in the composition window, at the top, in the Newsgroups field or the
Subject field. And ii) in Eudora, where all of the text in
the body will sometimes become right justified, line by line, that is,
not changing line breaks.


In Eudora, I realize it happens both when I'm editing an incoming email,
which Eudora permits, and when I'm editing a new outgoing email.

Do other email programs permit editing incoming email?

I must have touched certain keys


I finally got this part of this resolved tonight, regarding one of the
two problems in Eudora. All in all, I'd say the whole thing is
resolved.

The default method of changing languages and keyboards is Cntl-Shift (or
left-alt-shfit). Also, Cntl-Tab is the method I use for going trom one
pane to the next WITHIN Eudora. When I'm editing an incoming email in
Eudora, and I click on the pencil in order to do so, Cntl-Tab no longer
does that. The only way out of the edit pane is to X out (Cntl-W) or to
click the pencil again so I'm not editing anymore.

When I forget this, I find myself holding the Shift key down and


I think you mean holding the Cntl key down and pressing Tab over and
over. I do that too when the Pencil button is down and I forget.

pressing Tab over and over. Nothing happens, but when I decide to
change directions, by pushing down right-Shift, that makes Cntl-Shft and
the language or keyboard changes and everything moves to be right
justified.

but I can't find the keys to get the text back to the left.


You should try cntl-Left-Shift. I hear that works.

Doing Cntl-Shift again does nothing, for some reason. But clicking on
Blah-blah-blah, puts things back the way they were. This is true if
the Blah button is in or out. Only one click is needed either way.

But after all this, it turns out that if I close the message, even if I
save it before closing, the text reverts to the left, I think. That's
when editing an incoming email in Eudora. I haven't tried to test this
while writing a new message in Eudora

AGENT 1.93
But I did try it with Agent 1.9 with the insertiion point in the Subject
or Newsgroups fields of a composition window. Cntl-Right-Shift (probably
either Shift ) moves the text to the right side of the window. I
couldn't find a way to move it back. (Cntl-shift again did nothing)
But even if I save it, when I open it again, the text is back at the
left. Even if I've not done another Cntl-shift.

I guess before I was afraid to save the windows when they were like
this, for fear I wouldn't be able to find them again! Oh well.

Does anyone know what the problem is? Or how I stop it from happening
and how I reverse it when it does happen?


So it probably doesn't need reversing because it seems not to be
permanent.

(Please leave all 3 newsgroups so I don't have to read this thread in 3
places.)


I put this because I saw that one person, now 3 people, in
alt.home.repair, have removed newsgroups from the list, leaving only
their own. The groups here are more civilized, so it probably woudln't
have been a problem in the first place.


  #30  
Old September 28th 15, 12:41 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,alt.usenet.offline-reader.forte-agent,comp.mail.eudora.ms-windows
Etal
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 104
Default Text suddently moves tot he right margine, won't move back.

micky wrote:

Etal wrote:


I'm reading this thread from 'm.p.windowsxp.general' and don't
see any explanation for the behavior you (the OP) describe.


I read this whole thread, and I'm sure there was an explanation. The OP
changed his name to ne and the major answer I just
found at 9/20 at 12:47AM EDTime. Except I think he makes one mistake
where he says Shift when he means Cntl. I'm going to reply to that
post and show where I think the correction should be.


I read the full thread before posting and didn't see any
explanation. I also looked for newer posts from the OP, but
because of the nymshifting after being scolded over domain-name
usage i somehow missed it.

Eventually, in my catching up on the groups posts, i came upon
the OPs own separate solution-post, and i see you now have
replied to it. ... so i don't have to.



BTW, he said that in Eudora and Agent, both of which I use too, changes
appeared on the screen but were not permanent. When the window was
closed and re-opened, everything was left-justified again!


That is consistent with how it works for me in Notepad.
It's not something stored in the document, just how it is
presented on screen.


HTH


Yes, tremendously.


He. When i read the OPs own separate solution-post, i thought my
post had been in vain. I'm glad it still was useful.


--
Let's stick together
 




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