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An open letter to Microsoft's support personnel, should they exist



 
 
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  #46  
Old December 27th 03, 02:16 PM
Jim Macklin
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default An open letter to Microsoft's support personnel, should they exist

No problem, I hope I am correct.


"Gerry Cornell" wrote in message
...
Jim

Thanks for a non-asinine reply!

--

~~~~~~

Regards.

Gerry

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
FCA

Stourport, Worcs, England
Enquire, plan and execute.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


"Jim Macklin" wrote
in message ...
Microsoft put drivers for all brands and such on the

retail
and their OEM install CDs. But hardware manufacturers

such
as Dell have no reason to put drivers for Gateway,

HP/Compaq
or ATI on their oem CDs because they don't have any reason
to support other hardware manufactures.

Dell at least supplies a working oem CD...


"Gerry Cornell" wrote in message
...
Mike

Do some OEM suppliers remove components? If yes then they
could run the risk of a claim for damages for
misrepresentation if they call it Windows XP etc by
customers and court actions initiated by Trading

Standards.

--

~~~~~~

Regards.

Gerry

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
FCA

Stourport, Worcs, England
Enquire, plan and execute.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"Mike Brannigan [MSFT]"
wrote in message
...
"Testy" wrote in message
.. .
Personally I think it is time to discontinue the OEM

program and have
every
maker include a full CD.


Testy,

Is that just force the OEM to provide a full white box

disk OEM CD ROM; or
end the whole program of OEM product requiring OEM

support
and actually ship
a Retail CD?
If the later - would the market stand the increase in

cost
(passed onto the
consumer) for the support of all those millions and

millions of OEM
customers now having to come to Microsoft ?

If just force the OEM CD ROM in the package with the

PC -
then interesting
idea.
--
Regards,

Mike
--
Mike Brannigan [Microsoft]

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and

confers no
rights

Please note I cannot respond to e-mailed questions,

please
use these
newsgroups

"Testy" wrote in message
.. .
Personally I think it is time to discontinue the OEM

program and have
every
maker include a full CD.

Testy

"David Banks" wrote in

message
...
Hi

Whilst I read Neil's message with the obvious humour

that was intended I
do
think it generally reflects the 'mood' of anybody

who
has the Windows
product 'thrust upon them', particularly if it is

from
an OEM.

All OEM support personnel that I have encountered

only
know the basics
of
the systems they are supposed to be knowledgeable of

and I have never
yet
had a satisfactory outcome from any support line in

the UK. Both
Microsoft
and Siemens and Comet in the UK shove you from

pillar
to post, how
anybody
without tenacity can ever get a problem fixed in the

'buck-passing'
atmosphere that originates at Microsoft beats me.

There are a lot of people with 'smart' answers and

they will probably
turn
out to be right and gently 'ridicule' the

originators
message (as has
been
done in this case), but please, Microsoft, giving

smart, glib answers on
how
stupid an enquirer is (this is the impression I get

from the response by
Mike) does not endear us to you. Answers like 'if

you
don't like it, you
know what you can do' are not in my Customer

Services
handbook, since
when
has Microsoft had that view ;-))))) To suggest that

we
can 'go
elsewhere'
to
the average computer buyer with little knowledge of

computing is a bit
'high
minded' of you and again only reflects the general

perception that the
public have of the organisation.

I always get some smart person replying to my

enquiries pointing out the
obvious, I just get fed up of writing back to them

with the message
'read
my
enquiry again, you have not answered the question I

asked'

A message for Neil, give it up mate, your wasting

your
time (and energy)
but
I know it feels good to 'blow off steam' every now

and
then.

Also to suggest the use of backup is laughable, the

backup program is
not
included on the standard XP installation!!!!

I am very troubled by Mike's reply and have

re-written
it using my own
Customer
Services Handbook:-

'Dear Neil

I am sorry that you are experiencing difficulties in

obtaining the
information you require. The Windows operating

system
is very complex
and
navigating the knowledge bases' and help files can

sometimes be
frustrating
but please persevere. Here are the links where you

will find the answers
to
your questions:- links blah blah blah etc.
Thankyou for contacting Microsdfoft, we welcome all

feedback and hope
that
we have gone some way to alleviating what is

obviously
a very
frustrating
problem to you.
Please do not hesitate to contact us on blah blah

if
you have any
further
queries or problems.'

David


"Mike Brannigan [MSFT]"

wrote in message

...
Neil,

Comments inline

--
Regards,

Mike
--
Mike Brannigan [Microsoft]

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no

warranties,
and confers no
rights

Please note I cannot respond to e-mailed

questions,
please use these
newsgroups

"Neil Obstat"

wrote
in
message

48.16...
Hello, Microsoft.

I have just wasted about an hour trying to

figure
out how the hell I
am
supposed to ask you a question about one of your

filthy, worthless
products.


"Mike Brannigan [MSFT]"

wrote in message
...
Neil,

Comments inline

--
Regards,

Mike
--
Mike Brannigan [Microsoft]

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no

warranties,
and confers no
rights

Please note I cannot respond to e-mailed

questions,
please use these
newsgroups

"Neil Obstat"

wrote
in
message

48.16...
Hello, Microsoft.

I have just wasted about an hour trying to

figure
out how the hell I
am
supposed to ask you a question about one of your

filthy, worthless
products.


This is not a statement that is condusive to those

who may to provide
support (particularly if they are Microsoft staff)

Internet Explorer will not save a web page with

its associated
graphics
in
certain instances. Instead, it says "The web

page
could not be
saved
to
the selected location."

Can you please supply which pages you are having

problems with.

Are you Save As. Web page complete.
This creates an addtional folder below the

locvation
you are saving to
that
contains additional files (graphics etc). Ensure

you have permissions
to
creat this addtional folder for the page you are

Saving.

Also try the Save As single file. This produces a

MHT file with all
the
content embedded.

On the sites I have tried this on the Save As

single
file produced
better
results (
www.ibm.com was one test that worked
better
as single file)

I have read the reason for this before, yet a
search about--that's right--an hour ago turned

up
no results. I
looked
for
the phrase "to the selected location." I mean,

that's part of what
the
error message says. It uses those very words.

I
even checked to
make
sure
I spelled it exactly right. Seems like that

text
would be present
SOMEWHERE in your knowledge base, under the

section for Internet
Explorer
6, the program that gives me the error message.

Nope. No such
luck.
Apparently your error messages do not coordinate

with your knowledge
base.
That would be helpful.


The text DOES exist in the Knowledgebase.
If you go to the Knowledgebase at
http://support.microsoft.com/
Clcik the link for Search our Technical Database

(Knowledge Base)
Just leave the Select your Product as the

default -
All Microsoft
Search
topics-
enter
"The web page could not be saved to " in to the

For
Solution
containing
and Using ... The exact phrase entered

Produces one result
http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=235589

Which conatins the error exactly as stated. Is it

relevent to you ??


Never mind the message is, itself, not helpful.

The "selecte(oops,
hang
on, Outlook just popped its reminder window up

in
my face WHILE I
WAS
IN
THE MIDDLE OF TYPING THIS. I love when you do

that, Microsoft!)d
location"
has nothing to do with the error. No matter

where
I try to save the
page,
no luck. I believe, from what I read before

(from
your knowledge
base,
unless I am greatly mistaken) that this has to

do
with an update
that
was
released at some point for Internet Explorer. I

guess my original
question
was, are you going to get around to fixing this

at
any point? I
mean,
I
know you know the problem exists. It is a nice

feature, being able
to
save
the occasional web page, with its graphics

intact
and all. But it
doesn't
work with some pages, and I guess I'd just like

to
know if, having
broken
it, and (at one time, anyway) having

acknowledged
that you had
broken
it,
you were planning on doing anything about it.


Which pages are problematic and are any releated

to
the KB article I
found.

And then I tried to ask you that.

I went to your support page. I went to the part

where I'm supposed
to
get
to ask you a question. But as every single

technical operative at
your
company is more important than the Wizard of Oz,

this proved
completely
impossible. I bought my computer from Dell.

Dell's a fine company.
But
because I did that, you won't let me ask you

about
the product. You
told
me to go to Dell. As it were.


The support for OEM products is the responsibility

of the OEM.
It is a DELL machine with an OEM version of

Windows
XP on it - it is
up
to
Dell to provide you with support.

Yes, but...Dell didn't write the offending

program, did Dell? No,
Dell
did
not. You did. You wrote it, and you broke it.

So why ask Dell?
Dell
doesn't know what you've done.


Dell are fully trained in the support of the OS

and
have access to
technical
data that Microsoft support personnel do. In

addition since it is an
OEM
machine and OS Dell may have modified the system

and
as such are the
only
ones who can provide the required support.
Dell do and can know "what we have done"

Do you know, I might've liked to have tried

something like Linux.
Other
people do still make operating systems out

there,
don't they? I
might've
liked a blank, fresh system I could put a Linux

or
a Unix or some
such
thing on, but I bought a computer from Dell and

since you're the big
game
in town I have to buy your software with the

system. Dell has a
deal
with
you. Dell paid something for that software,

maybe
not retail, but
something. I'm sure they're not giving it to me

for nothing. So if
I
buy
a computer from Dell--or almost anyone else--I'm

not asked if I
would
like
Windows, I have to buy Windows. But if I do buy

Windows that way, I
cannot
get support for it. I'm beginning to feel a

mite
screwed, here.


You can purchase a device from other vendors with

other opertaing
systems
or
non at all.
You chose Dell and Dell supply Windows XP as an

OEM
product on PCs
they
ship.
See comment above about OEM support.
If Dell will not supply you a PC configured to

your
requirements
(including)
choice of OS then you can go elsewhere.

I tried entering the Product ID, and was told to

go to Dell. So I
decided
to improvise. I dug out a 3 year old copy of

Encarta, and I
installed
it.
It's the only software of yours I have that

isn't
an OEM version.
Meaning
it's the only thing made by you I've EVER CHOSEN

to purchase. There
was
a
rebate. It was free, after the rebate.


Correct - I feel I am repeating myself - OEM

product
= support by OEM.

Having installed Encarta 2000, I got the Product

ID from that. At
this
point, I just sort of wanted to ask if your

company had any sense of
responsibility whatsoever for what you have

wrough
t on the world,
you
great
jolly megalith, you.

I want you to have to read my words, because I

have to look at yours
every
damn day. Generally in some sort of error

dialog.
Or occasionally
on
a
soothing screen painted all in deepest blue.



Went back. Chose "Encarta" for product instead

of
"Internet
Explorer"
(wait, no, that wasn't an option on the list--I

mean instead of
"Windows
XP"). Typed in the Product ID. Was told

(drumroll, please)...you
don't
offer support IN THIS COUNTRY for that Product

ID.

But...I bought it in this country.

Checked that I had typed it in correctly. I

had.
Checked once
again.
Yep. Cleaned my glasses. Hmm...still says "in

this country."
Okay.


Did you purchase your copy of Encarta in the

country
where you reside
?
Was
it a grey import ?
If you have a USA Encarta and are in the USA then

we
may have a
problem
(please note the use of USA is just an example,as

you do not state
where
you
are.)

I could bore you with all the details of what I

tried then. I went
through
every support option you offer. Hey, for $245 I

can call you on the
phone!
That's pretty sweet. I could pay $245 to hear

you
tell me to go to
Dell
for support on a product YOU wrote and

published.
Cool.


Yes - we wrote it and supplied it to Dell to OEM

onto their machines
and
possibly modify or augment. They then trained the

support personnel
to
provide the necessary support on the product.
They also have routes back into us for issues they

cannot resolve and
also
to raise bugs etc should that be needed.

But I'll skip right to the part where I went to

one of your
"communities"
for support. That's where I found a really

neat-o
looking page full
of
bright, shiny graphics. Looked a lot like an

advertisement. Like
most
of
your products do, these days. Did I see any

place
for me to submit
a
question for the consideration of the

"community?"
I bet you can
figure
out the answer to that.

Do you mean here

http://support.microsoft.com/newsgroups/default.aspx
or
http://www.microsoft.com/communities/default.mspx

Both result in Web based access to these

newsgroups.

I mean, there was a little bit of information on

your newsgroups.
Ninety
trillion dollars you must've spent on that

bloated, script-ridden,
cookie-
filled web page, and you send people to the

newsgroups. Yessir,
doesn't
get much more modern than a newsgroup.

What would you prefer?
This is the most ubiquitous form of peer to peer

support community
that
the
technical community operate in.

Of course, fewer and fewer people
are familiar with the technology and etiquette

required to use
newsgroups.
But then, those ignorant, easily discouraged

peons
don't deserve
technical
help, do they? They only shelled out money for

your software, or
for
a
computer which came with mandatorily-installed

copies of some of
your
software.


We offer technical support as detailed for retail

customers. OEMs
provide
support for their OEM supplied products.

There is no technology required - we offer a Web

interface; as well as
advice on setting up real newsreader programs.

Also on the "communities" page was a link called

"Windows XP Support
Center," which lead right back to where I had

started from an hour
before.
Elegant.


Yes - since some people arrive at the communities

via other routes and
then
may want to search the knowledgebase or access

other
support services.
The
web is not a linear construct people enter from

various directions.

And hey, look--there's also a forthcoming

article
being hyped!
"Coming
Next Week: Award-winning computer journalist Ed

Bott explains how
to
use
the Backup utility in Windows XP and third-party

back up tools to
protect
essential data." Well, that would have been

useful before last
week,
when
the partition table on my main data drive

decided
to go south and
take
out
a year's worth of projects for school and some

nice, irreplaceable
personal
information. So, I guess thanks for that, too.

I
mean, I hadn't
even
planned on mentioning that to you. You're busy,

and you don't need
me
bothering you with my little problems.


If you have lost a significant amount of important

data because you
made
no
effort to protect it through the use of

appropriate
software (backup
or
otherwise) - then this is not our fault.

(Windows has been kind enough to inform me ever

since that the drive
"is
not formatted," which is not strictly accurate,

but that's okay
because
I'm
smart enough to figure out the real problem

myself. I like knowing
I
can
make my computer's life a little easier.)


ok

Of course, while you may not need me bugging you

with questions, you
certainly do need me to submit a quart of blood

and 35 stellar
references
just so I can get to the point of typing in a

Product ID you won't
support...in this country. I had to create a

stinking Hotmail
account
just
so I'd have a lousy Passport ID so I could even

take a look at the
useless
support page that wound up helping me not one

whit. (A Passport ID
which
is now linked to my user account on this

computer.
Super. Thanks
for
that.) That, of course, involved trudging

through
15 pages of
"which
of
these newsletters would you like to subscribe

to"
and "please tell
us
all
your hobbies." So I can get an email account.

(But not one with
"Microsoft" or "Bill Gates" in the name--I guess

I
could use that to
screw
people, and that job's been filled already.

That,
or else my name
is
really William Gates, although surely there

could
only be one in the
whole
world. Let's hope, anyway.)

But, the delay of wading through those forms

aside, I'm glad you've
taken
such a profound interest in me as a person that

you would have me
click
inside little square boxes in order that you may

learn about the
intricacies that make up my fascinating and

variegated life. You
really
do
care!


Yes - we do.

Or else you're the devil, and you're trying to

steal my very soul.

Have I mentioned lately how much I hate you,

Microsoft?

Neil Obstat











---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system

(http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.500 / Virus Database: 298 - Release Date:

7/10/2003








Ads
  #47  
Old December 27th 03, 02:17 PM
D.Currie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default An open letter to Microsoft's support personnel, should they exist

Personally, I'd like to see some way to enforce the rule that OEMs have to
support the software. Or maybe lose the ability to sell OEM. As a small
system builder, my customers can come in and ask me questions face-to-face,
and that's fine. Or they'll call. But I also get plenty of calls from people
who have bought from the big guys, and they can't get an answer.

Then there are the people who sell the oem software with trinkets, and have
no intention or ability to answer questions.

I don't mind answering customer's questions, and even the not-yet
customers -- I figure some day I will get their business.

But it does irritate me that others shirk the responsibility to give the
technical support they're supposed to. They aren't footing the cost for
proper support, so they sell their stuff cheap, which is fine for the
customer until they need help. And in the meantime, I'm providing free tech
support in the hopes that I'll get work from that person in the meantime.

"Mike Brannigan [MSFT]" wrote in message
...
"Testy" wrote in message
.. .
Personally I think it is time to discontinue the OEM program and have

every
maker include a full CD.


Testy,

Is that just force the OEM to provide a full white box disk OEM CD ROM; or
end the whole program of OEM product requiring OEM support and actually

ship
a Retail CD?
If the later - would the market stand the increase in cost (passed onto

the
consumer) for the support of all those millions and millions of OEM
customers now having to come to Microsoft ?

If just force the OEM CD ROM in the package with the PC - then interesting
idea.
--
Regards,

Mike
--
Mike Brannigan [Microsoft]

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
rights

Please note I cannot respond to e-mailed questions, please use these
newsgroups

"Testy" wrote in message
.. .
Personally I think it is time to discontinue the OEM program and have

every
maker include a full CD.

Testy

"David Banks" wrote in message
...
Hi

Whilst I read Neil's message with the obvious humour that was intended

I
do
think it generally reflects the 'mood' of anybody who has the Windows
product 'thrust upon them', particularly if it is from an OEM.

All OEM support personnel that I have encountered only know the basics

of
the systems they are supposed to be knowledgeable of and I have never

yet
had a satisfactory outcome from any support line in the UK. Both

Microsoft
and Siemens and Comet in the UK shove you from pillar to post, how

anybody
without tenacity can ever get a problem fixed in the 'buck-passing'
atmosphere that originates at Microsoft beats me.

There are a lot of people with 'smart' answers and they will probably

turn
out to be right and gently 'ridicule' the originators message (as has

been
done in this case), but please, Microsoft, giving smart, glib answers

on
how
stupid an enquirer is (this is the impression I get from the response

by
Mike) does not endear us to you. Answers like 'if you don't like it,

you
know what you can do' are not in my Customer Services handbook, since

when
has Microsoft had that view ;-))))) To suggest that we can 'go

elsewhere'
to
the average computer buyer with little knowledge of computing is a bit

'high
minded' of you and again only reflects the general perception that the
public have of the organisation.

I always get some smart person replying to my enquiries pointing out

the
obvious, I just get fed up of writing back to them with the message

'read
my
enquiry again, you have not answered the question I asked'

A message for Neil, give it up mate, your wasting your time (and

energy)
but
I know it feels good to 'blow off steam' every now and then.

Also to suggest the use of backup is laughable, the backup program is

not
included on the standard XP installation!!!!

I am very troubled by Mike's reply and have re-written it using my own
Customer
Services Handbook:-

'Dear Neil

I am sorry that you are experiencing difficulties in obtaining the
information you require. The Windows operating system is very complex

and
navigating the knowledge bases' and help files can sometimes be

frustrating
but please persevere. Here are the links where you will find the

answers
to
your questions:- links blah blah blah etc.
Thankyou for contacting Microsdfoft, we welcome all feedback and hope

that
we have gone some way to alleviating what is obviously a very

frustrating
problem to you.
Please do not hesitate to contact us on blah blah if you have any

further
queries or problems.'

David


"Mike Brannigan [MSFT]" wrote in

message

...
Neil,

Comments inline

--
Regards,

Mike
--
Mike Brannigan [Microsoft]

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
rights

Please note I cannot respond to e-mailed questions, please use these
newsgroups

"Neil Obstat" wrote

in
message 48.16...
Hello, Microsoft.

I have just wasted about an hour trying to figure out how the hell

I
am
supposed to ask you a question about one of your filthy, worthless
products.


"Mike Brannigan [MSFT]" wrote in

message
...
Neil,

Comments inline

--
Regards,

Mike
--
Mike Brannigan [Microsoft]

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
rights

Please note I cannot respond to e-mailed questions, please use these
newsgroups

"Neil Obstat" wrote

in
message 48.16...
Hello, Microsoft.

I have just wasted about an hour trying to figure out how the hell

I
am
supposed to ask you a question about one of your filthy, worthless
products.


This is not a statement that is condusive to those who may to

provide
support (particularly if they are Microsoft staff)

Internet Explorer will not save a web page with its associated

graphics
in
certain instances. Instead, it says "The web page could not be

saved
to
the selected location."

Can you please supply which pages you are having problems with.

Are you Save As. Web page complete.
This creates an addtional folder below the locvation you are saving

to
that
contains additional files (graphics etc). Ensure you have

permissions
to
creat this addtional folder for the page you are Saving.

Also try the Save As single file. This produces a MHT file with all

the
content embedded.

On the sites I have tried this on the Save As single file produced

better
results (www.ibm.com was one test that worked better as single file)

I have read the reason for this before, yet a
search about--that's right--an hour ago turned up no results. I

looked
for
the phrase "to the selected location." I mean, that's part of

what
the
error message says. It uses those very words. I even checked to

make
sure
I spelled it exactly right. Seems like that text would be present
SOMEWHERE in your knowledge base, under the section for Internet
Explorer
6, the program that gives me the error message. Nope. No such

luck.
Apparently your error messages do not coordinate with your

knowledge
base.
That would be helpful.


The text DOES exist in the Knowledgebase.
If you go to the Knowledgebase at
http://support.microsoft.com/
Clcik the link for Search our Technical Database (Knowledge Base)
Just leave the Select your Product as the default - All Microsoft

Search
topics-
enter
"The web page could not be saved to " in to the For Solution

containing
and Using ... The exact phrase entered

Produces one result
http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=235589

Which conatins the error exactly as stated. Is it relevent to you

??


Never mind the message is, itself, not helpful. The

"selecte(oops,
hang
on, Outlook just popped its reminder window up in my face WHILE I

WAS
IN
THE MIDDLE OF TYPING THIS. I love when you do that, Microsoft!)d
location"
has nothing to do with the error. No matter where I try to save

the
page,
no luck. I believe, from what I read before (from your knowledge

base,
unless I am greatly mistaken) that this has to do with an update

that
was
released at some point for Internet Explorer. I guess my original
question
was, are you going to get around to fixing this at any point? I

mean,
I
know you know the problem exists. It is a nice feature, being

able
to
save
the occasional web page, with its graphics intact and all. But it
doesn't
work with some pages, and I guess I'd just like to know if, having
broken
it, and (at one time, anyway) having acknowledged that you had

broken
it,
you were planning on doing anything about it.


Which pages are problematic and are any releated to the KB article I
found.

And then I tried to ask you that.

I went to your support page. I went to the part where I'm

supposed
to
get
to ask you a question. But as every single technical operative at

your
company is more important than the Wizard of Oz, this proved

completely
impossible. I bought my computer from Dell. Dell's a fine

company.
But
because I did that, you won't let me ask you about the product.

You
told
me to go to Dell. As it were.


The support for OEM products is the responsibility of the OEM.
It is a DELL machine with an OEM version of Windows XP on it - it is

up
to
Dell to provide you with support.

Yes, but...Dell didn't write the offending program, did Dell? No,

Dell
did
not. You did. You wrote it, and you broke it. So why ask Dell?

Dell
doesn't know what you've done.


Dell are fully trained in the support of the OS and have access to
technical
data that Microsoft support personnel do. In addition since it is

an
OEM
machine and OS Dell may have modified the system and as such are the

only
ones who can provide the required support.
Dell do and can know "what we have done"

Do you know, I might've liked to have tried something like Linux.

Other
people do still make operating systems out there, don't they? I
might've
liked a blank, fresh system I could put a Linux or a Unix or some

such
thing on, but I bought a computer from Dell and since you're the

big
game
in town I have to buy your software with the system. Dell has a

deal
with
you. Dell paid something for that software, maybe not retail, but
something. I'm sure they're not giving it to me for nothing. So

if
I
buy
a computer from Dell--or almost anyone else--I'm not asked if I

would
like
Windows, I have to buy Windows. But if I do buy Windows that way,

I
cannot
get support for it. I'm beginning to feel a mite screwed, here.


You can purchase a device from other vendors with other opertaing

systems
or
non at all.
You chose Dell and Dell supply Windows XP as an OEM product on PCs

they
ship.
See comment above about OEM support.
If Dell will not supply you a PC configured to your requirements
(including)
choice of OS then you can go elsewhere.

I tried entering the Product ID, and was told to go to Dell. So I
decided
to improvise. I dug out a 3 year old copy of Encarta, and I

installed
it.
It's the only software of yours I have that isn't an OEM version.
Meaning
it's the only thing made by you I've EVER CHOSEN to purchase.

There
was
a
rebate. It was free, after the rebate.


Correct - I feel I am repeating myself - OEM product = support by

OEM.

Having installed Encarta 2000, I got the Product ID from that. At

this
point, I just sort of wanted to ask if your company had any sense

of
responsibility whatsoever for what you have wrought on the world,

you
great
jolly megalith, you.

I want you to have to read my words, because I have to look at

yours
every
damn day. Generally in some sort of error dialog. Or

occasionally
on
a
soothing screen painted all in deepest blue.



Went back. Chose "Encarta" for product instead of "Internet

Explorer"
(wait, no, that wasn't an option on the list--I mean instead of

"Windows
XP"). Typed in the Product ID. Was told (drumroll, please)...you

don't
offer support IN THIS COUNTRY for that Product ID.

But...I bought it in this country.

Checked that I had typed it in correctly. I had. Checked once

again.
Yep. Cleaned my glasses. Hmm...still says "in this country."

Okay.


Did you purchase your copy of Encarta in the country where you

reside
?
Was
it a grey import ?
If you have a USA Encarta and are in the USA then we may have a

problem
(please note the use of USA is just an example,as you do not state

where
you
are.)

I could bore you with all the details of what I tried then. I

went
through
every support option you offer. Hey, for $245 I can call you on

the
phone!
That's pretty sweet. I could pay $245 to hear you tell me to go

to
Dell
for support on a product YOU wrote and published. Cool.


Yes - we wrote it and supplied it to Dell to OEM onto their machines

and
possibly modify or augment. They then trained the support personnel

to
provide the necessary support on the product.
They also have routes back into us for issues they cannot resolve

and
also
to raise bugs etc should that be needed.

But I'll skip right to the part where I went to one of your
"communities"
for support. That's where I found a really neat-o looking page

full
of
bright, shiny graphics. Looked a lot like an advertisement. Like

most
of
your products do, these days. Did I see any place for me to

submit
a
question for the consideration of the "community?" I bet you can

figure
out the answer to that.

Do you mean here
http://support.microsoft.com/newsgroups/default.aspx
or
http://www.microsoft.com/communities/default.mspx

Both result in Web based access to these newsgroups.

I mean, there was a little bit of information on your newsgroups.
Ninety
trillion dollars you must've spent on that bloated, script-ridden,
cookie-
filled web page, and you send people to the newsgroups. Yessir,

doesn't
get much more modern than a newsgroup.

What would you prefer?
This is the most ubiquitous form of peer to peer support community

that
the
technical community operate in.

Of course, fewer and fewer people
are familiar with the technology and etiquette required to use
newsgroups.
But then, those ignorant, easily discouraged peons don't deserve
technical
help, do they? They only shelled out money for your software, or

for
a
computer which came with mandatorily-installed copies of some of

your
software.


We offer technical support as detailed for retail customers. OEMs

provide
support for their OEM supplied products.

There is no technology required - we offer a Web interface; as well

as
advice on setting up real newsreader programs.

Also on the "communities" page was a link called "Windows XP

Support
Center," which lead right back to where I had started from an hour
before.
Elegant.


Yes - since some people arrive at the communities via other routes

and
then
may want to search the knowledgebase or access other support

services.
The
web is not a linear construct people enter from various directions.

And hey, look--there's also a forthcoming article being hyped!

"Coming
Next Week: Award-winning computer journalist Ed Bott explains how

to
use
the Backup utility in Windows XP and third-party back up tools to
protect
essential data." Well, that would have been useful before last

week,
when
the partition table on my main data drive decided to go south and

take
out
a year's worth of projects for school and some nice, irreplaceable
personal
information. So, I guess thanks for that, too. I mean, I hadn't

even
planned on mentioning that to you. You're busy, and you don't

need
me
bothering you with my little problems.


If you have lost a significant amount of important data because you

made
no
effort to protect it through the use of appropriate software (backup

or
otherwise) - then this is not our fault.

(Windows has been kind enough to inform me ever since that the

drive
"is
not formatted," which is not strictly accurate, but that's okay

because
I'm
smart enough to figure out the real problem myself. I like

knowing
I
can
make my computer's life a little easier.)


ok

Of course, while you may not need me bugging you with questions,

you
certainly do need me to submit a quart of blood and 35 stellar
references
just so I can get to the point of typing in a Product ID you won't
support...in this country. I had to create a stinking Hotmail

account
just
so I'd have a lousy Passport ID so I could even take a look at the
useless
support page that wound up helping me not one whit. (A Passport

ID
which
is now linked to my user account on this computer. Super. Thanks

for
that.) That, of course, involved trudging through 15 pages of

"which
of
these newsletters would you like to subscribe to" and "please tell

us
all
your hobbies." So I can get an email account. (But not one with
"Microsoft" or "Bill Gates" in the name--I guess I could use that

to
screw
people, and that job's been filled already. That, or else my name

is
really William Gates, although surely there could only be one in

the
whole
world. Let's hope, anyway.)

But, the delay of wading through those forms aside, I'm glad

you've
taken
such a profound interest in me as a person that you would have me

click
inside little square boxes in order that you may learn about the
intricacies that make up my fascinating and variegated life. You

really
do
care!


Yes - we do.

Or else you're the devil, and you're trying to steal my very soul.

Have I mentioned lately how much I hate you, Microsoft?

Neil Obstat











---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.500 / Virus Database: 298 - Release Date: 7/10/2003






  #48  
Old December 27th 03, 02:17 PM
Kadaitcha Man
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default An open letter to Microsoft's support personnel, should they exist

Graham wrote:

Did you go and read the supplied info at the link I posted. It clearly
states what can and cannot be done with an OEM disc.


You total ****ing idiotic ****-headed pillock. You can't just post a ****ing
link then tell people to go and read it. You have to quote the text and
argue why it supports your position, you stupid ****ing ****. Kindergarten
kids debate better than that, you ****witted ****.

The earth is flat: www.flat-earth.org/ read the link. The proof is there.

Get the idea, you ****ing fool? No? I figured as much.

--
Kadaitcha Man: Usenet Anarchist - http://kadaitcha.kicks-ass.org:83/
Anarchy is having to put up with things that **** you off.
MVP - Most Valueless Prostitute


  #49  
Old December 27th 03, 02:18 PM
Bill Drake
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default An open letter to Microsoft's support personnel, should they exist

D.Currie wrote:
Personally, I'd like to see some way to enforce the rule that OEMs
have to support the software. Or maybe lose the ability to sell OEM.


There is no way to enforce this rule. It is always possible for the
unethical provider to come up with a plausible excuse for non-support.


As a small system builder, my customers can come in and ask me
questions face-to-face, and that's fine. Or they'll call. But I also
get plenty of calls from people who have bought from the big guys,
and they can't get an answer.


And as a result, the unethical providers are dumping their support
costs on your back -- increasing their profits at your expense. Their
shareholder dividends are the direct result of your altruism -- and this
is a very conscious and deliberate policy on their part IMO.



Then there are the people who sell the oem software with trinkets,
and have no intention or ability to answer questions.


See above. Another example of the same. You've just described
simply a more-obvious example...


I don't mind answering customer's questions, and even the not-yet
customers -- I figure some day I will get their business.


No. Many customers are just as unethical as the abovementioned
providers. They'll rape you and leave you freezing -- pay you 5 cents
on the dollar and scream with outrage at that -- and drive your
business into the ground.

Save your time and energy for clients who come to you straight-out
looking for value and willing to pay a fair price in the first place.
These are the only people worth your time and energy.



But it does irritate me that others shirk the responsibility to give
the technical support they're supposed to. They aren't footing the
cost for proper support, so they sell their stuff cheap, which is
fine for the customer until they need help. And in the meantime, I'm
providing free tech support in the hopes that I'll get work from that
person in the meantime.


You're a fool to give these people the time of day.




"Mike Brannigan [MSFT]" wrote...
"Testy" wrote...
Personally I think it is time to discontinue the OEM program and
have every maker include a full CD.


Agreed.

I am tired of this industry's inane appeals to the
lowest-common-denominator cheapthink-element in our society.

The braindead marketeering policies currently in effect are a
*very efficient* way to ensure that *anyone* with enough brains
to amass the cash to buy a PC will *surely* avoid buying one
from any of the common suppliers.

And now you know why we're having this slump -- and why it
won't go away until we replace the airheads with engineers
and start producing computers with solid performance instead
of stalling and sputtering insanely unreliable junk.


Best I can do for now. tm


Bill






  #50  
Old December 27th 03, 02:19 PM
Ted
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default An open letter to Microsoft's support personnel, should they exist


"Mike Brannigan [MSFT]" wrote in message =
...
I knew you weren't talkin' about me :-)
=20


You're a ****ing cockeyed, arse ****ed, pillocking, bint bred, gormless =
**** brain!

This bitch heaps praise on you, as her code of ethics, for you not using =
the expletives that she "would assume" you'd use (in her self-honouring =
mind) to the OPs complaint letter. Yet you (at/or MS) remove(s) messages =
that you('d) otherwise deem offensive. This **** regularly ("regularly =
being 50-100 times/day) calls others, ****wits, cretins, morons, etc. =
Yet you shine through MS customer service excellence, by telling the OP =
INUT, that he's ****ed into a cocked hat, AFAMSIC, by then acknowledging =
a known ****'s praise on you and ignoring real customer concerns.
  #51  
Old December 27th 03, 02:19 PM
Gail
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default An open letter to Microsoft's support personnel, should they exist

I think Ted has a few issues - too bad he doesn't have anything to say from the
other orifice in his body



"Ted" """"""""""""""" wrote in message
s.com...

"Mike Brannigan [MSFT]" wrote in message
...
I knew you weren't talkin' about me :-)


You're a ****ing cockeyed, arse ****ed, pillocking, bint bred, gormless ****
brain!

This bitch heaps praise on you, as her code of ethics, for you not using the
expletives that she "would assume" you'd use (in her self-honouring mind) to the
OPs complaint letter. Yet you (at/or MS) remove(s) messages that you('d)
otherwise deem offensive. This **** regularly ("regularly being 50-100
times/day) calls others, ****wits, cretins, morons, etc. Yet you shine through
MS customer service excellence, by telling the OP INUT, that he's ****ed into a
cocked hat, AFAMSIC, by then acknowledging a known ****'s praise on you and
ignoring real customer concerns.


  #52  
Old December 27th 03, 02:19 PM
Ted
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default An open letter to Microsoft's support personnel, should they exist


"Gail" wrote in message =
...
I think Ted has a few issues - too bad he doesn't have anything to =

say from the
other orifice in his body
=20


You mean, you get a better understanding of these NGs, while you =
aspirate the ferocious gases released out from between the cheeks of =
one's bums?=20

By the way, you're a top-posting bint too!
  #53  
Old December 27th 03, 02:19 PM
Gail
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default An open letter to Microsoft's support personnel, should they exist

Actually I was inferring that you are spouting from your bum and the result is
quite nauseating.

Gee thanks for pointing out that I am a top poster -- I had not noticed that!
Wow -- the observation prowness that you profess. I bow low in your presence)


"Ted" """"""""""""""" wrote in message
s.com...

"Gail" wrote in message
...
I think Ted has a few issues - too bad he doesn't have anything to say from

the
other orifice in his body


You mean, you get a better understanding of these NGs, while you aspirate the
ferocious gases released out from between the cheeks of one's bums?

By the way, you're a top-posting bint too!


  #54  
Old December 27th 03, 02:23 PM
D.Currie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default An open letter to Microsoft's support personnel, should they exist


"Bill Drake" wrote in message
...
D.Currie wrote:
Personally, I'd like to see some way to enforce the rule that OEMs
have to support the software. Or maybe lose the ability to sell OEM.


There is no way to enforce this rule. It is always possible for the
unethical provider to come up with a plausible excuse for non-support.


As a small system builder, my customers can come in and ask me
questions face-to-face, and that's fine. Or they'll call. But I also
get plenty of calls from people who have bought from the big guys,
and they can't get an answer.


And as a result, the unethical providers are dumping their support
costs on your back -- increasing their profits at your expense. Their
shareholder dividends are the direct result of your altruism -- and this
is a very conscious and deliberate policy on their part IMO.



Then there are the people who sell the oem software with trinkets,
and have no intention or ability to answer questions.


See above. Another example of the same. You've just described
simply a more-obvious example...


I don't mind answering customer's questions, and even the not-yet
customers -- I figure some day I will get their business.


No. Many customers are just as unethical as the abovementioned
providers. They'll rape you and leave you freezing -- pay you 5 cents
on the dollar and scream with outrage at that -- and drive your
business into the ground.

Save your time and energy for clients who come to you straight-out
looking for value and willing to pay a fair price in the first place.
These are the only people worth your time and energy.



But it does irritate me that others shirk the responsibility to give
the technical support they're supposed to. They aren't footing the
cost for proper support, so they sell their stuff cheap, which is
fine for the customer until they need help. And in the meantime, I'm
providing free tech support in the hopes that I'll get work from that
person in the meantime.


You're a fool to give these people the time of day.


The advice I offer on the phone costs me as little as what responding on
these newsgroups does. And the ones on the phone have the potential of
becoming customers. Actually I've gotten quite a few customers who've come
in for service after calling, since some people, even with instruction, are
skittish about doing certain things with their computer. And I have quite a
number of customers who ignore their warranty and bring the computer to me
for repair. Or I diagnose they problem, they get parts under warranty, and I
replace them. So it's not all bad.

As far as the enforceability of it, there's no way they could get all of the
ones who don't provide support, but they could crack down on the most
blatant offenders. And you'd think it would be easy for them to muscle
companies like Dell and Gateway and the like. When people call for support
and day, "Dell won't help me" they've got the evidence right there.

Of course, they won't do it, but it would be nice.


  #55  
Old December 27th 03, 02:24 PM
Mister Charlie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default An open letter to Microsoft's support personnel, should they exist


"Ted" """"""""""""""" wrote in message
s.com...

"Mike Brannigan [MSFT]" wrote in message
...
I knew you weren't talkin' about me :-)


You're a ****ing cockeyed, arse ****ed, pillocking, bint bred, gormless
**** brain!

This one sentence clearly defines what and who YOU are. PLONK.


  #56  
Old December 27th 03, 02:24 PM
Alun Jones [MS MVP]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default An open letter to Microsoft's support personnel, should they exist

In article , "D.Currie"
wrote:
The advice I offer on the phone costs me as little as what responding on
these newsgroups does. And the ones on the phone have the potential of
becoming customers.


A lot of people make this same assumption when posting to Usenet - that they
are engaging in a dialogue, that only their correspondents are involved in.
For every person that writes a post in Usenet, there are at least a dozen,
up to several hundred, that read that post. The advice you offer here may
be more valuable than advice you offer over the phone, which is very
definitely a one-to-one medium.

Actually I've gotten quite a few customers who've come
in for service after calling, since some people, even with instruction, are
skittish about doing certain things with their computer. And I have quite a
number of customers who ignore their warranty and bring the computer to me
for repair. Or I diagnose they problem, they get parts under warranty, and I
replace them. So it's not all bad.


There's a lot to be said for treating everyone nicely - it's a great way to
attract new business. "I shan't buy my computer from the company that
treated me like an irritation even when they were supposed to be obliged to
help me; I'll buy it from the company that treated me like a valued customer
even though I hadn't bought anything from them yet". Of course, there has
to be some balance, otherwise you get freeloaders taking advantage of you,
or even just a wealth of well-intentioned newcomers who just haven't got
around to buying from you, and put you in the red as a result.

As far as the enforceability of it, there's no way they could get all of the
ones who don't provide support, but they could crack down on the most
blatant offenders. And you'd think it would be easy for them to muscle
companies like Dell and Gateway and the like. When people call for support
and day, "Dell won't help me" they've got the evidence right there.


Of course, the problem with that is that it takes a lot of effort to allege
contract breach, and when you do, it's not generally a quick or satisfactory
solution that comes out of the other side.

Alun.
~~~~
  #57  
Old December 27th 03, 02:24 PM
Bill Drake
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default An open letter to Microsoft's support personnel, should they exist

D.Currie wrote:
"Bill Drake" wrote...
D.Currie wrote:
Personally, I'd like to see some way to enforce the rule that OEMs
have to support the software. Or maybe lose the ability to sell OEM.


There is no way to enforce this rule. It is always possible for the
unethical provider to come up with a plausible excuse for
non-support.


As a small system builder, my customers can come in and ask me
questions face-to-face, and that's fine. Or they'll call. But I also
get plenty of calls from people who have bought from the big guys,
and they can't get an answer.


And as a result, the unethical providers are dumping their support
costs on your back -- increasing their profits at your expense.
Their shareholder dividends are the direct result of your altruism
-- and this is a very conscious and deliberate policy on their part
IMO.



Then there are the people who sell the oem software with trinkets,
and have no intention or ability to answer questions.


See above. Another example of the same. You've just described
simply a more-obvious example...


I don't mind answering customer's questions, and even the not-yet
customers -- I figure some day I will get their business.


No. Many customers are just as unethical as the abovementioned
providers. They'll rape you and leave you freezing -- pay you 5
cents on the dollar and scream with outrage at that -- and drive
your business into the ground.

Save your time and energy for clients who come to you straight-out
looking for value and willing to pay a fair price in the first place.
These are the only people worth your time and energy.



But it does irritate me that others shirk the responsibility to give
the technical support they're supposed to. They aren't footing the
cost for proper support, so they sell their stuff cheap, which is
fine for the customer until they need help. And in the meantime,
I'm providing free tech support in the hopes that I'll get work
from that person in the meantime.


You're a fool to give these people the time of day.


The advice I offer on the phone costs me as little as what
responding on these newsgroups does. And the ones on the
phone have the potential of becoming customers.


If you are successful at this, you will find yourself spending more
and more time giving "free" advice to these people. As long as
you *have* free time -- this is fine.

It's when you get busy and start saying things like "I can't help you
now" -- that you will find there are unreasonable and loutish clients
who are simply rude and demanding -- even when you are being a
"nice guy".


Actually I've gotten quite a few customers who've come in for
service after calling, since some people, even with instruction,
are skittish about doing certain things with their computer. And
I have quite a number of customers who ignore their warranty
and bring the computer to me for repair. Or I diagnose they
problem, they get parts under warranty, and I replace them.
So it's not all bad.


Fine. They're paying you for this service.



As far as the enforceability of it, there's no way they could get
all of the ones who don't provide support, but they could crack
down on the most blatant offenders. And you'd think it would be
easy for them to muscle companies like Dell and Gateway and
the like. When people call for support and day, "Dell won't help
me" they've got the evidence right there.

Of course, they won't do it, but it would be nice.


I noticed you didn't quote the further paragraphs in my previous
post. Nor did you comment on that. Yet you made the above
remark. I find that sad.

The "Of course, they won't do it" is *intimately" tied into the whole
airhead marketing-mentality avoidance-of-responsibility mindset
that dumps marketeer-created problems into other people's laps.

And your high-minded "noble" attitude to the problem is part of
the reason this silly nonsense continues.

Marketeers need to be ground up, spit out and pounded into
the ground for turning this business into a circus that only a fool
could love.



Best I can do for now. tm


Bill



  #58  
Old December 27th 03, 02:26 PM
jackfrost64
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default An open letter to Microsoft's support personnel, should they exist

With a mouth like yours you should not only be banned from this newsgroup
but from The internet as a whole.!!! idiot



"Mister Charlie" wrote in message
...

"Ted" """"""""""""""" wrote in message
s.com...

"Mike Brannigan [MSFT]" wrote in message
...
I knew you weren't talkin' about me :-)


You're a ****ing cockeyed, arse ****ed, pillocking, bint bred, gormless
**** brain!

This one sentence clearly defines what and who YOU are. PLONK.




  #59  
Old December 27th 03, 02:26 PM
D.Currie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default An open letter to Microsoft's support personnel, should they exist


"Alun Jones [MS MVP]" wrote in message
. ..
In article , "D.Currie"
wrote:
The advice I offer on the phone costs me as little as what responding on
these newsgroups does. And the ones on the phone have the potential of
becoming customers.


A lot of people make this same assumption when posting to Usenet - that

they
are engaging in a dialogue, that only their correspondents are involved

in.
For every person that writes a post in Usenet, there are at least a dozen,
up to several hundred, that read that post. The advice you offer here may
be more valuable than advice you offer over the phone, which is very
definitely a one-to-one medium.


I wasn't commenting on how many people get helped per message, just that
helping on the newsgroup and helping on the phone "cost" me the same as far
as my effort is concerned. And the only reason I said that was because
someone else had called me a fool for helping people who aren't customers.
The newsgroups is less likely to yield paying customers, but I do it anyway,
as do many others.


Actually I've gotten quite a few customers who've come
in for service after calling, since some people, even with instruction,

are
skittish about doing certain things with their computer. And I have quite

a
number of customers who ignore their warranty and bring the computer to

me
for repair. Or I diagnose they problem, they get parts under warranty,

and I
replace them. So it's not all bad.


There's a lot to be said for treating everyone nicely - it's a great way

to
attract new business. "I shan't buy my computer from the company that
treated me like an irritation even when they were supposed to be obliged

to
help me; I'll buy it from the company that treated me like a valued

customer
even though I hadn't bought anything from them yet". Of course, there has
to be some balance, otherwise you get freeloaders taking advantage of you,
or even just a wealth of well-intentioned newcomers who just haven't got
around to buying from you, and put you in the red as a result.


There's always a point where I can say that I don't have time to chat, or
that the problem is not one that can be fixed easily over the phone. But
there's always some lagtime in the day, and it's better to be doing
something than nothing.


As far as the enforceability of it, there's no way they could get all of

the
ones who don't provide support, but they could crack down on the most
blatant offenders. And you'd think it would be easy for them to muscle
companies like Dell and Gateway and the like. When people call for

support
and day, "Dell won't help me" they've got the evidence right there.


Of course, the problem with that is that it takes a lot of effort to

allege
contract breach, and when you do, it's not generally a quick or

satisfactory
solution that comes out of the other side.


Suppose so. The ones I'd really like to hang are the ones who sell supposed
"full" versions of the OS, then when the customer gets it, it's OEM, it
won't do an upgrade, they can't get support for MS, and they usually can't
return the product.


  #60  
Old December 27th 03, 02:26 PM
D.Currie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default An open letter to Microsoft's support personnel, should they exist


"Bill Drake" wrote in message
...
D.Currie wrote:
"Bill Drake" wrote...
D.Currie wrote:
Personally, I'd like to see some way to enforce the rule that OEMs
have to support the software. Or maybe lose the ability to sell OEM.

There is no way to enforce this rule. It is always possible for the
unethical provider to come up with a plausible excuse for
non-support.


As a small system builder, my customers can come in and ask me
questions face-to-face, and that's fine. Or they'll call. But I also
get plenty of calls from people who have bought from the big guys,
and they can't get an answer.

And as a result, the unethical providers are dumping their support
costs on your back -- increasing their profits at your expense.
Their shareholder dividends are the direct result of your altruism
-- and this is a very conscious and deliberate policy on their part
IMO.



Then there are the people who sell the oem software with trinkets,
and have no intention or ability to answer questions.

See above. Another example of the same. You've just described
simply a more-obvious example...


I don't mind answering customer's questions, and even the not-yet
customers -- I figure some day I will get their business.

No. Many customers are just as unethical as the abovementioned
providers. They'll rape you and leave you freezing -- pay you 5
cents on the dollar and scream with outrage at that -- and drive
your business into the ground.

Save your time and energy for clients who come to you straight-out
looking for value and willing to pay a fair price in the first place.
These are the only people worth your time and energy.



But it does irritate me that others shirk the responsibility to give
the technical support they're supposed to. They aren't footing the
cost for proper support, so they sell their stuff cheap, which is
fine for the customer until they need help. And in the meantime,
I'm providing free tech support in the hopes that I'll get work
from that person in the meantime.

You're a fool to give these people the time of day.


The advice I offer on the phone costs me as little as what
responding on these newsgroups does. And the ones on the
phone have the potential of becoming customers.


If you are successful at this, you will find yourself spending more
and more time giving "free" advice to these people. As long as
you *have* free time -- this is fine.


I've owned the store for 6 years, and I've managed to work it out. Some
things can't easily be solved over the phone, and some people should not
stick their hands inside their computers. In six years, I've had very few
people who simply waste my time, and if I have other things that need to be
done, that's what I do. If it's a problem that intrigues me, or a person the
I enjoy helping, it's my time to waste.


It's when you get busy and start saying things like "I can't help you
now" -- that you will find there are unreasonable and loutish clients
who are simply rude and demanding -- even when you are being a
"nice guy".


I've done that. No one's gotten rude or demanding.



Actually I've gotten quite a few customers who've come in for
service after calling, since some people, even with instruction,
are skittish about doing certain things with their computer. And
I have quite a number of customers who ignore their warranty
and bring the computer to me for repair. Or I diagnose they
problem, they get parts under warranty, and I replace them.
So it's not all bad.


Fine. They're paying you for this service.


And many have come to me because they called first, and I offered some
simple suggestions. If it was something they couldn't do, or didn't work,
they bring the work to me. It doesn't always happen, but we also get a lot
of referrals from those sorts of people because we're not rude when people
call with questions.


As far as the enforceability of it, there's no way they could get
all of the ones who don't provide support, but they could crack
down on the most blatant offenders. And you'd think it would be
easy for them to muscle companies like Dell and Gateway and
the like. When people call for support and day, "Dell won't help
me" they've got the evidence right there.

Of course, they won't do it, but it would be nice.


I noticed you didn't quote the further paragraphs in my previous
post. Nor did you comment on that. Yet you made the above
remark. I find that sad.


I snipped after Mike B's header as that seemed to be a response to what he
said. Why you find that sad, I don't know, as now that I've looked back on
it, you snipped all of his post and responded to Testy's one line. As far as
my not commenting on it, this "marketeer" thing seems to be one of your
personal hotspots, which is fine. But I tend to respond to things that
either I can help with or that I have a comment about because it interests
and/or amuses me.

I'm sure that you also pick and choose what you respond to.

The "Of course, they won't do it" is *intimately" tied into the whole
airhead marketing-mentality avoidance-of-responsibility mindset
that dumps marketeer-created problems into other people's laps.

And your high-minded "noble" attitude to the problem is part of
the reason this silly nonsense continues.


Oh, I doubt that I'm being noble at all. I help non-customers on the phone
because I find that it's a good way to turn a percentage of them into
customers. If I look at what it costs me to answers those questions vs. what
it costs me for print advertising, then look at the number of customers each
gets me, the "being nice to people" on the phone gets me more customers.

As far as answering questions on the newsgroup, it's a great way to learn
what sorts of problems other people are having on their computers, so that
when I run across the same issue with a customer's computer, I have some
ideas what to look for. It's certainly more interesting than memorizing the
knowledge base.


Marketeers need to be ground up, spit out and pounded into
the ground for turning this business into a circus that only a fool
could love.


Well, you've already called me a fool, so there you have it.


 




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